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Changes: From Concept To Final

How About No

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May 29, 2009
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Myriadis said:
Unfortunately not.I even think that the beta looked so much better than the final version,especially the Bianco Hills one,but then again we haven't seen everything in the Beta.

And to Final Fantasy XIII: Development began with the PS2.What most of you didn't know:They once wanted it to be cel-shaded.Granted,they used placeholders from FFX and it was maybe just the battle system,but that is the earliest thing that belongs to FFXIII.

COol. I never knew there were PS2 shots of FFXIII :O

Oh and poster-child, right here. Biohazard 2/1.5




Allegedy 80% done when they scrapped it.
 

randomwab

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Mar 2, 2007
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whatevermort said:
Didn't they end up using a lot of this for Code: Veronica?
Naw son. Resident Evil 3 got a good few ideas from 1.5, and a ton of the concepts were put into later Resident Evil and Dino Crisis titles.

We'll get 1.5 someday.
 

Pirabear

Banned
Jan 6, 2010
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Myriadis said:
And to Final Fantasy XIII: Development began with the PS2.What most of you didn't know:They once wanted it to be cel-shaded.Granted,they used placeholders from FFX and it was maybe just the battle system,but that is the earliest thing that belongs to FFXIII.
Man, now I want to see what a current gen, cel-shaded, mainline FF game looks like.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Jul 6, 2005
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Wow, there were a lot of things in the Resident Evil beta that I never knew about. Poor Kenneth.
 

Michan

Member
Jan 16, 2007
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Tokyo
Banjo-Kazooie started out as a project called "Dream."



It changed substantially over development, transforming into a platformer starring the bear and bird.

 

Chip N Chance

Member
Jul 30, 2009
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fernoca said:
Yeah..
Resident Evil 4 ended all over the place..
One version ended as Devil May Cry..a few canceled versions (like the one with the "ghosts") and one of the engines even used on P.N.03..


Anyway..
A few Mortal Kombat related ones:

(The original Kintaro)
Man, i have such memories of that version of him. I remember seeing him on a cover of some magazine (Gamepro?), and totally looking forward to it. But when time came he was never in it. Thanks for the nostalgia.:D
 

viewtifulsub

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Apr 22, 2006
1,711
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Host Samurai said:
Wasn't there a lot of stuff cut from Killer7?
A fair amount of content was scrapped or reworked to reach the final product. This was mostly story and playable levels. Most of it was detailed in 'Hand in Killer7', which explains what the original Killer7 would've been like

Early trailer #1
Early trailer #2
A more finalised trailer

The early trailers show off some of the stuff, including: Sundance Shot from Flower Sun Rain to be included in the story and young Harman Smith.
 

Michan

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Jan 16, 2007
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Earl Cazone said:
and why did dream look so clean and way over n64s capabilities
Part of the reason it was scaled back so much was because the programmers were having serious problems trying to get the game running at a decent framerate on the N64.
 

Diablohead

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Jun 4, 2006
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Myriadis said:
Unfortunately not.I even think that the beta looked so much better than the final version,especially the Bianco Hills one,but then again we haven't seen everything in the Beta.

And to Final Fantasy XIII: Development began with the PS2.What most of you didn't know:They once wanted it to be cel-shaded.Granted,they used placeholders from FFX and it was maybe just the battle system,but that is the earliest thing that belongs to FFXIII.



This is new to me, would have been nice I think.
 

Yoboman

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Sep 17, 2005
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I NEED SCISSORS said:
I think the final Metal Gear Solid 4 took a fairly big departure from what Kojima was originally planning. For a start, the technical priorities were changed. I think you'll all remember the original TGS 2005 reveal:



Now, it's not uncommon for an MGS game to go through various graphical changes. Snake's model always goes through many iterations before it's finalised, and color grading goes through a lot of tuning before Kojima is happy with the 'look'. What is not usually changed however is the framerate - MGS4 was once meant to be a 60fps game. When it emerged that the final PS3 spec was not as powerful as the development kits, the graphics had to be scaled back. Some things were improved, but as you can see from the video, the atmosphere and lighting were a lot better in the reveal.

Ultimately, the biggest downgrade came in the form of destructible environments. See that wall in the above picture? Kojima wanted a level of destruction in the game that simply could not be done with this generation of hardware - not with that level of fidelity, at least. The whole idea of "No Place to Hide", first introduced in the E3 2005 teaser (in which a wall collapsed behind Snake), had to be altered from the original literal sense to some philosophical bull about battlefields.

Finally, the story was once a lot different. The original ending consisted of
Snake and Otacon being captured by a PMC group, tried and then executed.
This was vetoed by the team because they felt it was too depressing - we ultimately ended up with the ending we have now.
I think the original MGS4 concept was doable. To be honest, it seemed to be a lack of ambition overall as far as the engine went. No manner of designing things so they worked, more like scaling everything until they fit the base spec sheet of the console. They didn't design the game to stream properly, so instead we had massive installs. And a lot of the visuals just ended up being average. Sony first party games outstrip that tech demo for MGS4

Obviously the story was a mishap too. I wish Kojima had just gone with his vision
 

StuBurns

Banned
Jan 9, 2008
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Yoboman said:
I think the original MGS4 concept was doable. To be honest, it seemed to be a lack of ambition overall as far as the engine went. No manner of designing things so they worked, more like scaling everything until they fit the base spec sheet of the console. They didn't design the game to stream properly, so instead we had massive installs. And a lot of the visuals just ended up being average. Sony first party games outstrip that tech demo for MGS4

Obviously the story was a mishap too. I wish Kojima had just gone with his vision
I disagree, nothing Sony has done has approached that video. Wipeout is their only 60FPS game, and it's laughable in comparison.
 

Yoboman

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Sep 17, 2005
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StuBurns said:
I disagree, nothing Sony has done has approached that video. Wipeout is their only 60FPS game, and it's laughable in comparison.
Hmm I wasn't thinking framerate wise, more visually. God of War hits 60 at times though

What I find strange about MGS4 though, is that it was also downgraded from the E3 2006 trailer, which should have been easily possible
 

StuBurns

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Jan 9, 2008
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Yoboman said:
Hmm I wasn't thinking framerate wise, more visually. God of War hits 60 at times though

What I find strange about MGS4 though, is that it was also downgraded from the E3 2006 trailer, which should have been easily possible
At 30 I'm sure Sony could make that game yes. I'm sure Koji-Pro could have to. But that jump to 60 is obscene in terms of the demand on the hardware.

I think MGS4 looked great, I just watched my mate play thru most of it a few days ago, it's still beautiful, it's just not as incredible as that first trailer suggested. I don't remember which one the E3 2006 one was, but I remember the TGS06 one looking like shit, and everything after that getting gradually better.
 

Wazzim

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Sep 21, 2009
11,433
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Yoboman said:
I think the original MGS4 concept was doable. To be honest, it seemed to be a lack of ambition overall as far as the engine went. No manner of designing things so they worked, more like scaling everything until they fit the base spec sheet of the console. They didn't design the game to stream properly, so instead we had massive installs. And a lot of the visuals just ended up being average. Sony first party games outstrip that tech demo for MGS4

Obviously the story was a mishap too. I wish Kojima had just gone with his vision
I don't know man, Sony first party games run on 30FPS and are pretty linear. 60FPS and destructable walls etc. are another story but I'm no developer, who knows how strong the old PS3 dev. kit was.
 
Sep 13, 2007
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Sep 13, 2007
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the TMO said:
3 minute chunky gameplay more cooler than re4... yeah, right!
I have no qualms saying the theme and camera work were more interesting than what we got in the final product. It was a lot eerier, which is what I want from Resident Evil.
 

Sohter.Nura

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Dec 6, 2008
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWpEE_5pDzQ

Resident evil 3.5

I can't believe this hasn't been posted yet! (or has it?:lol )

I love how it sounds very Resident Evil, less of an action game. I love how HEAVY the steps sound and that gives it such a creepy impression.

GrotesqueBeauty said:
Don't forget RE 3.5. As good as RE4 is, this one looked much cooler/creepier. Too bad they had to go and change it. :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NLUzU8Z_NI

Damn it, beaten by a couple posts!

Yeah, I would have LOVED to play Resident Evil 3.5, despite the fact that I loved RE 4 as well.
 
Sep 13, 2007
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Sohter.Nura said:
Resident evil 3.5

I can't believe this hasn't been posted yet! (or has it?:lol )
Er, look at the posts directly above yours.

:lol

edit: Ah, you caught it. Apparently we're in agreement on the game, high five.
 

koma

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Jun 7, 2004
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viewtifulsub said:
A fair amount of content was scrapped or reworked to reach the final product. This was mostly story and playable levels. Most of it was detailed in 'Hand in Killer7', which explains what the original Killer7 would've been like

Early trailer #1
Early trailer #2
A more finalised trailer

The early trailers show off some of the stuff, including: Sundance Shot from Flower Sun Rain to be included in the story and young Harman Smith.
I wrote a long article about the K7 beta and development sometime ago: http://www.unseen64.net/articles/killer-7-development-beta-analysis/
 

jett

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Jun 6, 2004
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I NEED SCISSORS said:
I think the final Metal Gear Solid 4 took a fairly big departure from what Kojima was originally planning. For a start, the technical priorities were changed. I think you'll all remember the original TGS 2005 reveal:

Oh the memories. I remember people complaining about those wall textures and putting up Gears of War 1 as if it was comparable to that trailer. :lol

That trailer, frankly was total bullshit. Artistically the game is quite different from it, from the character models to the scenery. Not even graphically, but the way the camera shots are set up and the quality of the direction and editing of the whole thing is far, FAR superior to anything in the final game. With that in mind, I question how much of it is actually KojiPro's work, another company is credited for the creation of the trailer in MGS4's credits.
 

StuBurns

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Jan 9, 2008
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jett said:
With that in mind, I question how much of it is actually KojiPro's work, another company is credited for the creation of the trailer in MGS4's credits.
The MGS4 game credits? What does it say? "TGS 2005 trailer by whoever"?

The trailer is actually no where near as good in some areas, the texture work is flat out bad. The geometry is better in the final game, the character models are better in the final game. There is really only the framerate, particle effects and direction that are any better.

One reason I doubt it wasn't Koji-Pro is Kojima did that live demonstration of the engine at TGS'05, showing how he does camera angles and depth of field effects etc.
 

jett

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StuBurns said:
The MGS4 game credits? What does it say? "TGS 2005 trailer by whoever"?

The trailer is actually no where near as good in some areas, the texture work is flat out bad. The geometry is better in the final game, the character models are better in the final game. There is really only the framerate, particle effects and direction that are any better.

One reason I doubt it wasn't Koji-Pro is Kojima did that live demonstration of the engine at TGS'05, showing how he does camera angles and depth of field effects etc.
It does say something like that.

I'm not gonna litter this thread with comparison pictures(besides I deleted the ones I had), but that trailer is better in pretty much all respects to the game. I had comparison pics of the exact same scene that is in the trailer and in the game(when Snake meets that little robot) and the game comes out looking like garbage.

The real-time "demonstration" is a sham, it only shows the Snake model against a wall pretty much, they play with some rudimentary lighting effects(which don't affect the environment at all).
 

StuBurns

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Jan 9, 2008
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jett said:
It does say something like that.

I'm not gonna litter this thread with comparison pictures(besides I deleted the ones I had), but that trailer is better in pretty much all respects to the game. I had comparison pics of the exact same scene that is in the trailer and in the game(when Snake meets that little robot) and the game comes out looking like garbage.

The real-time "demonstration" is a sham, it only shows the Snake model against a wall pretty much, they play with some rudimentary lighting effects(which don't affect the environment at all).
Well I just watched the trailer about an hour ago, and I really disagree. The texture work is dog shit, and the geometry is very basic. And considering the level is totally different, any comparison would be largely useless, but feel free to post it.
 

Yoboman

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Sep 17, 2005
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StuBurns said:
The MGS4 game credits? What does it say? "TGS 2005 trailer by whoever"?

The trailer is actually no where near as good in some areas, the texture work is flat out bad. The geometry is better in the final game, the character models are better in the final game. There is really only the framerate, particle effects and direction that are any better.

One reason I doubt it wasn't Koji-Pro is Kojima did that live demonstration of the engine at TGS'05, showing how he does camera angles and depth of field effects etc.
What? The Snake model at TGS 05 was far better than the final model. More polygons and the hair looked way better. The face animated much better (everything did actually) and the lighting was leagues beyond the final one. The enemy models were far worse in the final game
 

Yoboman

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Sep 17, 2005
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StuBurns said:
At 30 I'm sure Sony could make that game yes. I'm sure Koji-Pro could have to. But that jump to 60 is obscene in terms of the demand on the hardware.

I think MGS4 looked great, I just watched my mate play thru most of it a few days ago, it's still beautiful, it's just not as incredible as that first trailer suggested. I don't remember which one the E3 2006 one was, but I remember the TGS06 one looking like shit, and everything after that getting gradually better.
MGS4 was rarely ever near 60 FPS. Maybe if you were looking at a wall or something. A lot of the time it was sub-30
 

StuBurns

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Jan 9, 2008
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Yoboman said:
What? The Snake model at TGS 05 was far better than the final model. More polygons and the hair looked way better. The face animated much better (everything did actually) and the lighting was leagues beyond the final one. The enemy models were far worse in the final game
Snake is not better, true, but every other character model is.

Yoboman said:
MGS4 was rarely ever near 60 FPS. Maybe if you were looking at a wall or something. A lot of the time it was sub-30
Did you read the post you replied to?
 
D

Deleted member 20920

Unconfirmed Member
ULTROS! said:
To be fair, most of the 2006 trailer, if not all of it, were target renders. They were still tweaking and making Crystal tools back then and couldn't have had a real time trailer to show.

Myriadis said:
And I believe that they didn't mean to takle a celshaded approach. It's just that those models are placeholders and everything's still unpolished.
 
Sep 30, 2009
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Yoboman said:
Hmm I wasn't thinking framerate wise, more visually. God of War hits 60 at times though

What I find strange about MGS4 though, is that it was also downgraded from the E3 2006 trailer, which should have been easily possible
I think from E3 2006 -> final product, there was a huge mixed bag of downgrades and improvements. On one hand, E3's shadows were more dynamic and the lighting BLEW the final game out the water; but on the other hand the final game pushed more detail in some areas, such as the character models, and in particular the graveyard scene. As far as filters go, I loved the yellow look of the E3 trailer and was disappointed to see it go, but I think they made the right decision with other areas such as the graveyard (again). I always get a good laugh out of the emotional roller-coaster that was Meryl's hair - at E3 2006 it looked awesome, but after the stiff E3 2007 trailer there were many bitter tears! Thankfully, at TGS 2007 it started looking great again. That always confused me though... it was as if they tore it all up and started again.
 
Jun 3, 2005
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If there's one thing I would have liked more than anything else for Metal Gear Solid 4, it's the original story intended for the game. What we got in the end was... horrible. Like, last episode of Lost horrible.
 

StuBurns

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Jan 9, 2008
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If there's one thing I would have liked more than anything else for Metal Gear Solid 4, it's the original story intended for the game. What we got in the end was... horrible. Like, last episode of Lost horrible.
This is very true.

And what's most annoying is Kojima is going to get shit for it forever, and he didn't even want it.
 

neojubei

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Dec 21, 2005
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REMEMBER CITADEL said:
A couple of recent examples:





And then, of course, there's Fable...

A tear just came from my eye. I still remember that picture.
 

TheThunder

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Can someone post the original story of MGS4 ?

I share the opinion of it being shitty and the worst out of the 4 but the gameplay + controls is better than the previous games so it was kinda of a mixed bag.
 

StuBurns

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Jan 9, 2008
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TheThunder said:
Can someone post the original story of MGS4 ?

I share the opinion of it being shitty and the worst out of the 4 but the gameplay + controls is better than the previous games so it was kinda of a mixed bag.
It's basically the same however at the end a PMC group capture Snake and Otacon, put them to trial, and have them executed for war crimes.