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Chants of 'equal pay' accompany USWNT win

Oct 26, 2018
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But they will. The USSF agreed to mediation. They are going to get a new contract. Again, you're wrong. You are terrible at facts.
Thats no different than football player under contract skipping training camp.

The team may agree to renegotiate terms or say forget it and lock the player out.

It makes no difference the USSF is willing to to bend, since breaking contracts is being a schmuck.

Whats the point of union/Management agreeing to contracts if the players are going to break it?
 
Oct 26, 2018
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It is because the women agreed to keep playing. Whereas an NFL player like Marshawn Lynch does not play.
And agreeing to play means you accept the terms.

If the soccer deal their own union neogotiated ia so bad, then sit like other athletes do until a deal is done.
 
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Oct 26, 2018
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Not really because they filed a federal lawsuit. And now are headed towards an agreement. The USWNT never broke their contract. They sued because they felt it is based on unfair practices.
If the deal is so bad then why have their union agree to such a deal?
 

oagboghi2

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For you it is. For the rest of the world, it seems not to be. Again, they are headed toward mediation. They are past this.
Their revised contracts won't change the reality of the situation. They are a smaller market, with less revenue streams and accordingly smaller contracts. These ladies want to act like they are big stars, Ala Lebron or Brady, but they aren't.

I'm sure in 4 years we will hear them crying again.
 
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Cybrwzrd

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The more I think about it, the only women’s sport I actually care about is competitive pole dancing.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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Because they wanted to be able to keep playing. Very smart move by them. A hold out would have garnered an unfavorable public opinion. This has been explained a number of times now.
Negotiating in bad faith is never good. You agree to a deal and stick with it, or balk and dont sign the dotted line.

This goes for anything in life whether its job salaries or buying or selling something on Ebay.

Have good ethics and live with the deal signed. When its time to hammer out a new contract when the current one is done they go ahead and ask for whatever you want.

Not hard to understand.
 
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Oct 26, 2018
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The only people who aren't behind the USWNT seem to be on this board. I'm pretty certain they are going to prevail even with violating your unwritten rules of business negotiations. Just sayin.
And they might win a pay bump. Just like a hold out player getting a break from an owner for an adjusted contract.

It it works out and they get a pay bump good on them, but poor ethics and breaking contracts is in poor taste.

Not sure why you defend this kind of thing in life.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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Again, nothing factual or even remotely relevant. I'll fix that.

This is cute. You still think you're participating in the conversation.

You could start by addressing the points others have raised, but you keep repeating the same things over and over.

Maybe if you repeating it 7 or 8 more times, it'll magically come true. Or at least you can sleep soundly tonight after jotting down a diary entry: "I kept posting the same link over and over while ignoring counterarguments. I sure got them. Goodness those sexists are so frustrating, bu at least the soccer team will suck my dick now"
 
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NickFire

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Not really. They have the world behind them. The only people I see that oppose their efforts seem to be here. Where there isn't a woman around. Wonder why that is.
Not so sure about that. Yahoo sports still has comments for articles. And there are a lot of them under the articles reporting on some of the team's vocal interjection of politics and demands to get paid more despite the revenue disparity. They might have the world behind them if you limit the world to their most passionate fans and people who generally argue feelings over facts, but in terms of general sports fans they seem to be hitting a wall of revenue v. pay demands rationalists who are not exactly on their side.
 
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Dec 15, 2011
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The women aren't going to regress. They have the market, they have the buying power.
Statistically, this is completely false.

There couldn't be a clearer example of this than this very thread.
As evidenced by consumer demand, spending and endorsement of this global sport and how that is reflected in the profile of men's and women's teams and tournaments.

But, please, continue with nothing but emotive rhetoric and arbitrary technicalities - all at the expense of real-world evidence.
You also conveniently remove agency from these people (as is so common with those asserting victimhood on others).

As I said before, all these wage-gap arguments all hang on massive generalisations and removal of agency on behalf of the 'victims'.
The instant you actually start to look at more relevant factors the more blatantly false the victimhood narrative is shown to be.

Which is why those invested in the victimhood narrative have to rely on repetition and emotive grandstanding - not in-depth details, accountability, and specifics.
 
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Jun 26, 2018
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Statistically, this is completely false.
It's not. The soccer industry has grown in the US over the last 10 years. And it's largely due to women. Your 'clear example' is horse shit.

‚ÄúRight now, we are seeing incredible momentum for women in sport, as athletes lead a movement of health and wellness. We are more committed than ever to using our brand as a catalyst, celebrating athletes, supporting sports and building the best products for women. The landscape of sport is expanding, and Nike is invested in inspiring the next generation of female athletes.‚ÄĚ

 
Jun 26, 2018
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What's your problem with them negotiating more pay?
I believe it stems from the personal politics from the players. I'm pretty good at being able to separate those things. Like, I love the band Phish. But I know they're all liberals. It's cool. We can exist together. Same with this. I love women. I support women. Even if we disagree politically.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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What exactly are you gatekeeping about here? What's your problem with them negotiating more pay?

Do you just not like the optics "equal pay"? Is that why you're arguing the other side?
If you read through my posts (or generally had the ability to read a post on GAF without immediately slipping into a non-sequitur) then it would be clear to you. I'll sum up my own points to save you the time and the brain-strain, though:

- salary negotiations are fine.
- leveraging fans and a competitive event for the sake of salary negotiations is bad sportsmanship and shows these women to be weak and of bad character.
- Nike is sponsoring their outrage, so they aren't actually hurting for money.
- this sets a bad precedent for future women athletes, which is actually a bigger issue than the direct impact in this specific situation.

I believe it stems from the personal politics from the players. I'm pretty good at being able to separate those things. Like, I love the band Phish. But I know they're all liberals. It's cool. We can exist together. Same with this. I love women. I support women. Even if we disagree politically.
Don't volunteer to speak for what someone else is thinking when they've already put in the effort to explain it, chimp.
 
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oagboghi2

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I believe it stems from the personal politics from the players. I'm pretty good at being able to separate those things. Like, I love the band Phish. But I know they're all liberals. It's cool. We can exist together. Same with this. I love women. I support women. Even if we disagree politically.
Ahh It's because they are liberal women...of course ūüôĄ
 

ssolitare

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If you read through my posts (or generally had the ability to read a post on GAF without immediately slipping into a non-sequitur) then it would be clear to you. I'll sum up my own points to save you the time and the brain-strain, though:

- salary negotiations are fine.
- leveraging fans and a competitive event for the sake of salary negotiations is bad sportsmanship and shows these women to be weak and of bad character.
- Nike is sponsoring their outrage, so they aren't actually hurting for money.
- this sets a bad precedent for future women athletes, which is actually a bigger issue than the direct impact in this specific situation.
Okay, so you're just a dude with an opinion then. Where ever your bias resides, that's where you will take it. It kinda makes arguing pointless.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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Okay, so you're just a dude with an opinion then. Where ever your bias resides, that's where you will take it. It kinda makes arguing pointless.
Oh, yet another cowardly exit from yet another "pointless" thread?

I'm glad I wasted my time replying to you.

Don't post like a sex starved incel looking to lash out at women at every turn.
Good one. They'll definitely suck your dick now.
 

NickFire

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I believe it stems from the personal politics from the players. I'm pretty good at being able to separate those things. Like, I love the band Phish. But I know they're all liberals. It's cool. We can exist together. Same with this. I love women. I support women. Even if we disagree politically.
I say your first sentence is half right, and the rest is spot on. I say your first sentence is half incorrect because most sports fans don't give a shit about whether the athletes are liberal, conservative. etc. But it is still half correct because when people get interested in something predominantly because of national pride, and end up getting rewarded for their interest with liberal talking points and demands for "equality in outcome only" then yeah, people get rubbed wrong and use their first amendment rights to rebut the talking points with more accurate arguments.
 

ssolitare

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Oh, yet another cowardly exit from yet another "pointless" thread?

I'm glad I wasted my time replying to you.


Good one. They'll definitely suck your dick now.
The funny thing is that he's right. Your basis isn't based on facts, but on your subjective opinion chiefly about the messaging. You're just trying to justify your opinion.

Now there's suddenly a right way to negotiate, when they're working with law firms and player unions and shit. Like, common now.
 
Dec 15, 2011
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It's not. The soccer industry has grown in the US over the last 10 years. And it's largely due to women. Your 'clear example' is horse shit.
Boom. Arbitrary technicality. Exactly on cue.

Notice how my post mentions global but your response moves the goalposts to be about only one region. A region known for it's relative lack of interest in the global sport.
So that's a pretty dishonest response. Dishonest on more than one level. Especially as the catalyst for this topic follows a World cup tournament.

Also, growth is not volume.
I can grow revenue 1000% compared to another organisation. Doesn't mean revenue is greater. Doesn't make me a better investment. Doesn't factor if my ROI is better or worse.
Sure, it sounds positive. But it's a very long way from the full picture.
But, as I keep saying, that's what gender-pay arguments are always based on: taking one or to aspects of a complex thing and demanding that nobody look any closer than that.

As the saying goes: "A little bit of knowledge is a very dangerous thing".

And you avoided addressing a whole host of other points I raised to cherry pick one detail that you though you could 'gotcha' me on.
This has been your MO throughout this entire thread.
 
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Jun 26, 2018
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Now there's suddenly a right way to negotiate, when they're working with law firms and player unions and shit. Like, common now.
I mean, seriously. How is he going to give me this 'right way to negotiate' when Trump fucking does the same thing. Rightfully so. But still. Trump walks out of contracts. And it works. Where was his outrage then?
 

DunDunDunpachi

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The funny thing is that he's right. Your basis isn't based on facts, but on your subjective opinion chiefly about the messaging. You're just trying to justify your opinion.

Now there's suddenly a right way to negotiate, when they're working with law firms and player unions and shit. Like, common now.
Begone, sideline cheerleader. You jumped into the conversation with a misunderstanding of my post. I corrected you. And now you want to continue playing the cowardly dunce cheering for your side without putting any thought into it.

"Common" now. Just because you Googled some nice words like "subjective opinion" doesn't mean you have an argument. If you and ConnorDuffy wanna hug and pat one another on the back, leave me out of it. This thread is a trainwreck of dead-end logic.

I'm married to an awesome woman. A former college athlete. You should try talking to one sometime.
I have a wife and three kids. I wasn't really sure where you're going with this but it certainly strengthens my argument that these women and those cheering for them aren't very intelligent, nor of good character. All you can do is derail your own thread with insults. Good job.

Since you've already given up defending your argument with logic, please do me the favor of coming up with a better insult in your next reply.
 
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oagboghi2

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I'm married to an awesome woman. A former college athlete. You should try talking to one sometime.
Oh God are we doing this now..ūüėÖ

Anymore buzzwords you want to use? Maybe call him a Nazi or tell him to check his privilege?
I mean, seriously. How is he going to give me this 'right way to negotiate' when Trump fucking does the same thing. Rightfully so. But still. Trump walks out of contracts. And it works. Where was his outrage then?
ūü§£He does, and he gets tons of shit for it. Strange defense
 

ssolitare

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I mean, seriously. How is he going to give me this 'right way to negotiate' when Trump fucking does the same thing. Rightfully so. But still. Trump walks out of contracts. And it works. Where was his outrage then?
Lol, exactly.

I think that a decent floor position is supporting them getting better pay, and criticizing the "equal pay" tagline because the details get complicated after that.

But there's no reason to tell them that they don't deserve better, or that they'll regress womens sports. That's some incel shit.
 
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Jun 26, 2018
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He does, and he gets tons of shit for it.
When have you or Dun Dun criticized Trump for his bad business negotiating techniques? I doubt that ever happened. But if the women do it, they're whining, they're petty, they're throwing a tantrum. And really? Emojis?
 
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CaptainAnchovie

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Huh? The women's sporting market has grown internationally, too.
Great, is it large enough now to bridge the difference in pay yet between World Cup Teams and Women's Cup?
The reason for the pay disparity is likely largely attributable to the difference in size between the two leagues, such that the smallest/worst men's teams are able make more money than the largest/best women's teams in their respective league on a much more marginal percentage of the overall revenue available.

The USWNT and USMNT do not compete in the same league, they are not facing the same competition, and they do not face the same economic realities as each other. Yet Equal Pay is considered a virtue as though they deserve to be payed the same as the men's team despite the obvious differences in situations.
 
Dec 15, 2011
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Oh look. Another goalpost-moving 'gotcha' attempt. With no other points addressed.

Always the same: ONLY LOOK AT THE DETAIL I WANT YOU TO SEE. ANY OTHER DETAILS ARE NOT IMPORTANT.

Doubling down after you've been demonstrably called out on it is only going to dig your hole deeper.
 
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oagboghi2

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When have you or Dun Dun criticized Trump for his bad business negotiating techniques? I doubt that ever happened. But if the women do it, they're whining, they're petty, they're throwing a tantrum. And really? Emojis?
I don't consider Trump's buisness negotiations to be bad, but I am not the majority in that thinking. There are tons of people who criticize Trump for his deal making moves. Is that even up for debate?

and you know what, if Trump ever files a sexual discrimination lawsuit to escape a bad deal he agreed to, I would consider that pretty sleazy. ūüėā

No matter how much you whine and cry, the facts of that contract don't change. It wasn't illegal, it wasn't coerced, and they agreed to it. Trying to rewrite history to make them out as martyrs "fighting for women's sports" is a bit much
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Um, pot meet the fucking kettle. You started with the name-calling. And you have yet to post anything factual or relevant to the discussion.
It's too easy to get under your skin. Are you saying I am wasting my time responding to you? That seems to be the case, because instead of replying to anyone in this thread you just clutch pearls and attempt to insult others. And here I thought I was engaging in good faith, explaining my standpoints, clarifying what I mean, and offering evidence.

You make it too easy. Please put up a challenge. Even your insults are losing their luster, and it's telling that the conversation is now spinning off into "but but but Trump". Check your derangement at the door, please.

These women are showing themselves to be weak crybabies and bad sports. You haven't yet been able to counter that, so you have to misrepresent my talking points as "incel shit" or "it's because of their political viewpoints" or "because you don't want them to negotiate for more pay". No, no, and no. I have already explained this to you. After a few pages of back-and-forth with you, I can see why you'd white knight for them. Sympathetic emotional dispositions and all that.

False moral superiority is a helluva drug. Cheering for wealthy celebrities has always been the domain of deficient thinkers.
 
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oagboghi2

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Also just to remind everyone reading this thread, these women just won 30 million dollars. That's not including the sponsorships.

Less than the men, but not exactly poverty living