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Chants of 'equal pay' accompany USWNT win

Teletraan1

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Here you go, boss.

That is the one I just read. It gives values from before they renegotiated the CBA in 2017. It does not provide new numbers, only they got a bump.

From that article:

"According to the lawsuit, from 2013 through 2016, women’s national-team players could earn a maximum of $4,950 per “friendly,” or non-tournament, game that they won, while men’s national-team players earned an average of $13,166 for the same thing. And though a new collective-bargaining agreement was reached in 2017 that reportedly bumped up the women’s salaries (the exact numbers are not public), the pay from the USSF to its male and female athletes is still not equal. "

Also the women's contract is structured differently. The men are on a pay for wins scenario where the women get a flat pay win or lose. Directly comparing per match pay would be disingenuous.

I have a suspicion that with how much they have been winning someone figured they would have made more money if they were paid for wins compared to a lower salary that is paid for wins and losses and it is easy to rile the hornets nest with pay gap concerns. Hell I wouldn't doubt the pay structure was set up just to do just that.
 
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finowns

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I respect them so much, I'm willing to make an honest review of their qualities as soccer players.

And yes, they are hilariously bad. Like literally every time I watch a female soccer game, I can't stop laughing at how bad and clumsy they are.



Sorry, you are arguing just out of pure feelings.

The fact is, women soccer doesn't generate the same revenue that men soccer does, and still, women receive a higher percentage of that revenue than men do.

Well, there is a sizable difference in the revenue available to pay the male and female teams. According to Mike Oznian, a writer for Forbes, the 2015 Women’s World Cup “brought in almost $73 million, of which the players got 13%. The 2010 men’s World Cup in South Africa made almost $4 billion, of which 9% went to the players.”

Last year, the men’s World Cup in Russia generated more than $6 billion in revenue; the participating teams shared about $400 million. That is less than 7 percent of overall revenue. Meanwhile, the 2019 Women’s World Cup made somewhere in the region of $131 million, doling out $30 million, well more than 20 percent of collected revenue, to the participating teams. It seems a pay gap does exist, after all.



So yeah, according to their respective capacity to generate money, women are being paid more than men.
Well I’ll just say an 18 year old woman ran a mile in 4 minutes something; that’s athletic I don't care what or who you are. I can’t comment on Soccer but imagine it’s competitive between women.
 

Jon Neu

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How is the WC payout relevant when the men didn't even qualify for it, yet STILL make more than the women who won two consecutive?
I understand following logic is not your forte, I think pretty much everybody in this thread knows that.

You still fail to understand one thing, women WC is not the same as men WC. Having won two women WC amounts to very little, the men WC still is FAR more profitable and therefore has much more money to distribute. So the men team can earn more money by just going to one WC in the last two editions, than the women team winning the last two female WC.

Well I’ll just say an 18 year old woman ran a mile in 4 minutes something; that’s athletic I don't care what or who you are. I can’t comment on Soccer but imagine it’s competitive between women.
Good for her, but being a soccer fan for almost all my life, the quality of the game of women in soccer is absolute trash.
 

NickFire

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How is the WC payout relevant when the men didn't even qualify for it, yet STILL make more than the women who won two consecutive? Not sure I follow your logic.

Because it's crap.
Your post says the payout is irrelevant, but the women think its relevant based on what their attorney says in the WaPo article I linked: "Jeffery Kessler, the female players’ attorney, said via email: “The USSF has an obligation under US law to provide equal pay regardless of how FIFA discriminates. The discrimination against the women occurs in both Non- World Cup games and World Cup games.”"

With all due respect, it seems you are making the argument that going forward every sport must have all revenue from its various leagues pooled together, with every participant paid exactly the same regardless of which league people pay the most to see. If I'm missing some big picture fact by all means let me know.
 
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So is Trump lacking in morals because he walks away from a contract?
Oh look. Addressing nothing and reaching for.... [spins wheel theatrically]... the "Whatabout Trump?" card.

Really going through the playbook of shitty engagement moves here.

Like I said: Your tactics have already been called out by multiple people. Doubling down on them just makes you look worse.
You've crossed the point of no return now - so you have no option to keep doubling down more and more.

What a shame.
 
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cryptoadam

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Whoever posted the WAPO or WSJ article please post some quotes for us since its behind a paywall.

What I did get to read mentioned that the women get a 100K guaranteed salary, while the men only get paid based on games they played. They gave an example if both men and women lost 20 games, the men would get 100K since they get 5K per loss, and the women would get 100K since they only get bonuses when they win, but they have guaranteed contracts.

So are the women willing to give up their 100K guaranteed money for "equal pay"? AT this point if a man play in 10 games and all are losses he would make 50 K, while a women can play 0 games and make double what the man makes. I bet none of the women are willing to complain about that.

The article also mentioned that there are 2 sources of revenue, sponsorship, and FIFA.

As far as sponerships go, I think Women do deserve a bigger chunk since over the past few years its been womens soccer that has been pushing the sport. Again soccer is unique in the US that it is not popular. Its an easy niche for the Women to fill. They have managed to become dominate and have no male competition so they basically suck up all the oxygen in the room.

As far as the money from FIFA, that should be distributed based on the FIFA org. So if FIFA pays the men 50 million and the women 20 million, the men get to divide 50 million and the women get to divide 20 million. I don't think the men should subsidize the women nor the women subsidizing the men.

Now the other point is I don't think that the women are doing "equal work" for "equal pay". Yes they are dominating the female WC, but you can't compare that to the male WC. The men have to go against the best soccer players in the world with countries that invest untold millions and years into male soccer. Look at countries like England or Brazil or Germany or any other soccer mad country and the soccer talent they are producing blows womens soccer out of the water. The tournaments are not equal and its why the men do not dominate.

And this BS about them signing the CBA but wanting to litigate is well BS. They want their cake and eat it too. They don't want to make the sacrifice that other athletes have made to fight for their labor rights. Instead they want to play, take their guaranteed money and other perks they agreed to, but still tie up their employer in court because of perceived pay gap, a gap they agreed to.

All they have to do is strike and show the huge revenue loss for US soccer and they will get what they want.
 
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If they want respect, they can start showing some respect themselves.
At my crotchety old age, I have this stance on respect:

Respect is personal currency.
You can choose to award respect. It is yours to award as you wish.
You cannot demand respect from others.
You cannot argue that you are owed respect.
Respect has value because it must be earned.

Anyone saying they are owed respect, or that they deserve respect: These people neither understand nor value what respect is.
 
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merlinevo

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If they want respect, they can start showing some respect themselves.
That bleach blonde dragged the flag on the ground and dropped it on the dirt to do a monkey salute. She really cares about representing the US. Why are being told they need equal pay again?
 
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Well well well. Looks like out of all articles Connor posted about pay funny how there was no mention anout the mens performance based pay system is totally different than womens guaranteed salary approach.

Also it seems since the men didnt even make the world cup it sounds like they dont get anything. Womens team members get a salary no matter what.

So it seems like a classic system of cozy salary + small perks vs. the pressure cooker sales guy pay system of crap pay if you fail bit big bucks if you do well.

If the ladies were smart they should have negotiated better contracts like the guys since the womens team has a better chance at winning than guys. But their union agreed upon contract heavily favours a base salary approach.
 
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cryptoadam

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Well well well. Looks like out of all articles Connor posted about pay funny how there was no mention anout the mens performance based pay system is totally different than womens guaranteed salary approach.

Also it seems since the men didnt even make the world cup it sounds like they dont get anything. Womens team members get a salary no matter what.

So it seems like a classic system of cozy salary + small perks vs. the pressure cooker sales guy pay system of crap pay if you fail bit big bucks if you do well.

If the ladies were smart they should have negotiated better contracts like the guys since the womens team has a better chance at winning than guys. But their union agreed upon contract heavily favours a base salary approach.
Exactly. Man plays 0 games he gets 0$.

Women plays 0 games, she gets 100K. Will the women be willing to take 0$ for 0 games? I doubt it.

And they did negotiate a good contract that saw many increases for women and many benefits. The problem is that they agreed to the CBA but also want to litigate it under the false pretense that womens soccer is equal to mens soccer. They are putting out a false equivalency here. Its like saying 50 lbs = 200 lbs.

Me thinks that they know they have no leg to stand on thats why they agreed to their CBA and want to go to the courts and try and get some activist judges to side with them. You cannot compare the mens world cup to the womens world cup, the level of competition is not even in the same stratosphere.

But goddamn athelets have done it again. Somehow they always manage to make us feel sorry for them. These women earn over 100K a year, thats the top 1% essentially, but we are supposed to be crying for them that they are so underpaid. Go to a women working 2 jobs trying to make ends meet, surviving on tips and then lets pretend these girls playing soccer are oppressed and discriminated against.
 
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But goddamn athelets have done it again. Somehow they always manage to make us feel sorry for them. These women earn over 100K a year, thats the top 1% essentially, but we are supposed to be crying for them that they are so underpaid. Go to a women working 2 jobs trying to make ends meet, surviving on tips and then lets pretend these girls playing soccer are oppressed and discriminated against.
Even more.

Many of the US womens team plays in the NWSL. A Pro Womens Soccer League nobody watches. They get paid to play too and it's funded by US Soccer. Without subsidies the league is toast, so it's a free ride by organizers.


Let’s start with the U.S. team. All 23 U.S. players in France ply their trade in the NWSL. Their playing salaries are essentially the same. U.S. Soccer subsidizes the NWSL by paying the national team players’ NWSL salaries, in addition to providing payments for their USWNT accomplishments per the collective bargaining agreement.

The base salary for USWNT players is $173,000 per year. According to the most recent records that U.S. Soccer has filed with the IRS, in fiscal year 2018 (from October 1, 2017 to Sept. 30, 2018) these were the amounts the federation paid to a few key U.S. players:

Christen Press - $257,920

Becky Sauerbrunn - $256,720

Kelley O’Hara - $256,695

Sam Mewis - $247,497
 
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cryptoadam

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Even more.

Many of the US womens team plays in the NWSL. A Pro Womens Soccer League nobody watches. They get paid to play too and it's funded by US Soccer. Without subsidies the league is toast, so it's a free ride by organizers.


Let’s start with the U.S. team. All 23 U.S. players in France ply their trade in the NWSL. Their playing salaries are essentially the same. U.S. Soccer subsidizes the NWSL by paying the national team players’ NWSL salaries, in addition to providing payments for their USWNT accomplishments per the collective bargaining agreement.

The base salary for USWNT players is $173,000 per year. According to the most recent records that U.S. Soccer has filed with the IRS, in fiscal year 2018 (from October 1, 2017 to Sept. 30, 2018) these were the amounts the federation paid to a few key U.S. players:

Christen Press - $257,920

Becky Sauerbrunn - $256,720

Kelley O’Hara - $256,695

Sam Mewis - $247,497
So a majority of rich white women complaining that they aren't rich enough? Most of em probably went to Uni on soccer scholarships as well, getting a nice free education.

Its so ironic how leftist are falling for this BS. Rich people playing a sport for a living making a ton of money crying the blues because they are greedy and want more money. Yet its being played off as if they are oppressed. How is Christen Press going to survive on 250K a year! She must be garbage bin diving to get meals and has to rely on goodwill for clothing.
 

oagboghi2

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Well well well. Looks like out of all articles Connor posted about pay funny how there was no mention anout the mens performance based pay system is totally different than womens guaranteed salary approach.

Also it seems since the men didnt even make the world cup it sounds like they dont get anything. Womens team members get a salary no matter what.

So it seems like a classic system of cozy salary + small perks vs. the pressure cooker sales guy pay system of crap pay if you fail bit big bucks if you do well.

If the ladies were smart they should have negotiated better contracts like the guys since the womens team has a better chance at winning than guys. But their union agreed upon contract heavily favours a base salary approach.
Is this true @ConnorDuffy1977 ?
 

switchback27

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So a majority of rich white women complaining that they aren't rich enough? Most of em probably went to Uni on soccer scholarships as well, getting a nice free education.

Its so ironic how leftist are falling for this BS. Rich people playing a sport for a living making a ton of money crying the blues because they are greedy and want more money. Yet its being played off as if they are oppressed. How is Christen Press going to survive on 250K a year! She must be garbage bin diving to get meals and has to rely on goodwill for clothing.
Come on now, I don't like the argument that the WNT is making and their tactics of signing a CBA and then reneging on it, but let's not strawman them. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and believe that they're doing it for the entirety of the US women's soccer player base. I think their tactics are misguided, but it seems pretty incredulous to think that this is all about just getting theirs.

Here's what I don't understand, though. When you negotiate a CBA in any sport, you suffer whatever consequences that may result--owners were getting burnt by ridiculously long contracts, so they set a cap on max contract length while making a concession to raising the annual value of contracts......at the next CBA negotiations.

I agree with a lot of what the other posters have said--if the WNT feels it has leverage, then strike. If you're still playing and reaping the fruits of the CBA, you have no right to then tear it up unilaterally...well, to be more accurate, you can try, but the other party has to be willing to come to the table. And when it comes time to negotiate the next CBA, the other side can point to you deciding to say "fuck this CBA I signed" and use it as leverage in negotiations.
 
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So a majority of rich white women complaining that they aren't rich enough? Most of em probably went to Uni on soccer scholarships as well, getting a nice free education.

Its so ironic how leftist are falling for this BS. Rich people playing a sport for a living making a ton of money crying the blues because they are greedy and want more money. Yet its being played off as if they are oppressed. How is Christen Press going to survive on 250K a year! She must be garbage bin diving to get meals and has to rely on goodwill for clothing.
Pretty easy to do a man vs. woman wage debate when per game bonuses are compared, and salaries are ignored.
Come on now, I don't like the argument that the WNT is making and their tactics of signing a CBA and then reneging on it, but let's not strawman them. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and believe that they're doing it for the entirety of the US women's soccer player base. I think their tactics are misguided, but it seems pretty incredulous to think that this is all about just getting theirs.

Here's what I don't understand, though. When you negotiate a CBA in any sport, you suffer whatever consequences that may result--owners were getting burnt by ridiculously long contracts, so they set a cap on max contract length while making a concession to raising the annual value of contracts......at the next CBA negotiations.

I agree with a lot of what the other posters have said--if the WNT feels it has leverage, then strike. If you're still playing and reaping the fruits of the CBA, you have no right to then tear it up unilaterally...well, to be more accurate, you can try, but the other party has to be willing to come to the table. And when it comes time to negotiate the next CBA, the other side can point to you deciding to say "fuck this CBA I signed" and use it as leverage in negotiations.
For sure.

Like anyone, make as much money as you can. But like any baseball player who signed a shit contract, but became an allstar lately, you got to hold to that contract. When it's done and it's time to sign another one, then demand the huge bucks.

If the value the soccer team brings (which Connor brags the womens team is such high revenue earners lately), then demand the big bucks and management will agree to it.

But if the womens teams union negotiators signed a bum deal years back (which if you Google it the players weren't even that fond of it), then don't sign the deal. Yet, they did it anyway. The team has been super successful lately and now they want to retroactively change it since they just won the world cup.

Change it for next time. And to lock in awesome terms, do what other leagues do..... demand a % of revenue (which should be great since women's revenue is supposedly growing fast), and lock it in for the next 2 world cups worth of years (or 8 years worth of global tournaments). So like I said in an older post, do the deals and be prepared. When was the last time you saw the mens team complain about their compensation package or terms? You don't cause it's all set.

Yet what may happen is the union will offer a crap deal again, management will sign yes, and 4 years from now the players will be complaining again.
 
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NickFire

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Does Manchin owe Trump a favor for something? Or is he just so desperate for attention that he rushed to attach the party designation to a bill that most passionate sports fans know is socialism on steroids?

I could honestly go either way answering my questions. The latter seems most obvious based on everyone in the party trying to prove how far left they have become except (can't believe I'm saying the first name here) Pelosi and Biden. But then again, this is about soccer! Like in all honesty, can anyone think of an issue that will get foreign born citizen's to talk about how crazy the Dems have become faster than demanding to pay a women's soccer team with the men's revenue based on the argument that the women are superior players???????? There might be less political risk by a Republican demanding an NRA membership tax to fund planned parenthood.
 

DeepEnigma

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These are the important things senators need to focus on, and scramble to get done!

Said nobody outside of 🤡🌎
 
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cryptoadam

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Come on think about the 30 women out of the 180 Million women in the US that have to suffer on making 100-500K a year!

Clearly when only .0000000000001% of women in the US ever get to this level, and make more money than most people will ever make in their lives, you need to get congress involved to help these poor downtrodden women. Look they need their Gucci and MK bags and that 2nd BMW and summer home, the struggle is real for these women.

This is right up the Socialist party of America's alley though.
 
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Looks like Connor disappeared after people posted about the mens and womens teams salary pay difference, where men get nothing since they didn't qualify and the women (regardless of winning, losing, or missing the world cup) have a guaranteed salary schedule the guys don't.
 

DeepEnigma

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Looks like Connor disappeared after people posted about the mens and womens teams salary pay difference, where men get nothing since they didn't qualify and the women (regardless of winning, losing, or missing the world cup) have a guaranteed salary schedule the guys don't.
So what you’re saying is, by default they already make more.
 
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So what you’re saying is, by default they already make more.
Yup.

Salesperson #1. Guaranteed salary + small bonuses if target met

Salesperson #2. Hit me with an all commission job. If I suck, I get nothing, but if I hit some targets I want big bucks.

The ladies took #1, hit their targets, but want to break contract and inject #2's bonuses as retroactive payment. Assholes.
 
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cryptoadam

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Why are they even asking for equal pay, they should be asking for a greater share of the revenue since their entire premise is that they bring in more $$$ for soccer. If they make more money for the USSF than the men than fuck equal pay get those ends. If you made the company you worked for 1 million dollars, would you want equal pay to the person how made them 100K? Nah you want more.
 
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DeepEnigma

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Why are they even asking for equal pay, they should be asking for a greater share of the revenue since their entire premise is that they bring in more $$$ for soccer. If they make more money for the USSF than the men than fuck equal pay get those ends. If you made the company you worked for 1 million dollars, would you want equal pay to the person how made them 100K? Nah you want more.
They use the words “equal pay” since it hits on the conditioning that has been pounded on about “pay gap”.

If they use “we want more than”, then they lose the mindshare in the public eye.
 
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Eiknarf

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Basically admitting the obvious, "fight for equal pay" is mainly about activities increasing Women Soccer revenue:

That horrible person, Megan Rapinoe, says the team won’t visit the White House, yet, says she’ll go to Washington and sit and talk WITH ANYONE WHO AGREES WITH HER

ANYONE. WHO. AGREES. WITH. HER.

Aaaaa what a dunce!

And what about all the other players who didn’t kneel and were proud to stand for America? Maybe they wanna go to the White House? Why does she get to decide?! Because she scissors!?!
 

llien

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I understand that it feels unfair to them.
They just don't realize that they are soo good exactly because female version of the football is much less popular around the globe, hence they compete against lesser opponents than the male team.
 
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Basically admitting the obvious, "fight for equal pay" is mainly about activities increasing Women Soccer revenue:

Funny how someones maturity and mindset change when sat in a chair in MSNBC when over the past month Rapinoe and the team have all been about showboating, twitter battles, screaming equal pay.

For the first time all year, she finally mentions some logical pathways for increasing womens revenue streams which would help boost pay as the corporate coffers would get bigger.

Where has Rapinoe's "hey folks, help support us by buying more tickets and jerseys" been the past year?
 

Pumpkin Seeds

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Similar to the WNBA (which is subsidized by the NBA), media promotion of USWNT is much higher than actual interest.

That doesn't mean that I don't think they couldn't build up a true and very significant amount of interest, but obviously not via the political path they are taking. First, they need more competition so there's real doubt about the outcomes and need to ditch their current branding. Promote women's soccer globally and increase the global game. Other countries are getting better and better, but still a lot more talent needs to start showing up.
 
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prag16

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I tried to: "Perhaps most astonishingly, while the men pocketed $9 million after reaching the round of 16 in their 2014 World Cup, the women -- who blew through the round of 16 and marched all the way to the top of the winner’s podium -- pulled in just $2 million to divvy up between them. "
Was this every the actual issue though? I thought it was the money directly paid by USSF to players which was under the gun. Obviously the cut of total WC revenue coming in to FIFA is a different ballgame.
 

NickFire

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Was this every the actual issue though? I thought it was the money directly paid by USSF to players which was under the gun. Obviously the cut of total WC revenue coming in to FIFA is a different ballgame.
"Jeffery Kessler, the female players’ attorney, said via email: “The USSF has an obligation under US law to provide equal pay regardless of how FIFA discriminates. The discrimination against the women occurs in both Non- World Cup games and World Cup games.”"

"The new agreement has provisions that may reduce the difference in bonuses for friendly games and tournaments, but there is — without question and for whatever reasons — still a massive gap between men’s and women’s World Cup bonuses."


Whatever reasons is what they call a massive disparity in revenue. I'd like to hear them repeat that while they strike until the day comes when everyone with a blog gets paid the same as their senior reporters.
Well, their own lawyer is claiming the USSF has an obligation to provide equal pay regardless of what FIFA does. And then a liberal rag said "for whatever reasons" when everyone knows what the reason is for different World Cup bonuses. But look past all that. No way they are really demanding the USSF pay them the same regardless of FIFA revenue sources. Just because their lawyer says it while suing for it does not mean that's what they want. And no way liberal news outlets would completely ignore the elephant in the room or try to change the focus away from it either.
 
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And then a liberal rag said "for whatever reasons" when everyone knows what the reason is for different World Cup bonuses.
Ok, talk about being intentionally obtuse. I just posted a link that detailed the payout for the 2018 Men's World Cup. The USMNT did not get any of the winning purse. They got $1.5m to prepare.

Why are you bringing up WC bonuses?
 

NickFire

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Ok, talk about being intentionally obtuse. I just posted a link that detailed the payout for the 2018 Men's World Cup. The USMNT did not get any of the winning purse. They got $1.5m to prepare.

Why are you bringing up WC bonuses?
Because their lawyer let the cat out of the bag. His words: "Jeffery Kessler, the female players’ attorney, said via email: “The USSF has an obligation under US law to provide equal pay regardless of how FIFA discriminates. The discrimination against the women occurs in both Non- World Cup games and World Cup games.”"

This is not about their collective bargaining agreement. The real goal is getting money from the Men's World Cup revenue from any source.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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What money? They didn't get any money from the 2018 WC. WTF are you talking about? The men got $1.5m. That's it. And they STILL get paid more than the women.
Why is this a problem? Why should the women be paid as much -- or more -- as the men? Is it because they won their cup? Winning games is not the determining factor as to why a team makes $x.xx, the sponsorship and viewership is.

Might as well complain that curling teams make less money than soccer teams or that chess players make less money than League of Legends players.
 

NickFire

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What money? They didn't get any money from the 2018 WC. WTF are you talking about? The men got $1.5m. That's it. And they STILL get paid more than the women.
Which one is it? The men got more and the women want the same thing? Or the men got nothing and the women are suing to get nothing?
 

DeepEnigma

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Why is this a problem? Why should the women be paid as much -- or more -- as the men? Is it because they won their cup? Winning games is not the determining factor as to why a team makes $x.xx, the sponsorship and viewership is.

Might as well complain that curling teams make less money than soccer teams or that chess players make less money than League of Legends players.*
*Only if they are women.
 
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Which one is it? The men got more and the women want the same thing? Or the men got nothing and the women are suing to get nothing?
Are you kidding? The men get paid more from the USSF despite the fact they got almost NOTHING from the World Cup payout. What don't you understand? Seriously.