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Cherno reacts on Dirt 5 running on XSX ''What can anyone say about this''

Rentahamster

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Being lukewarm to Demon Souls's or any title is irrelevant, we all know what good graphics are and what bad graphics are. Going out of their way to bash a system when its a engine fault is disingenuous and this is what this video was.
Good thing then; he went out of his way to bash the software and not the Xbox system in this video.
 
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But Cherno is probably the most credible youtuber out there compared to any. He even worked on Need For Speed, so he knows a thing or two on car racing. Also worked on Frostbite engine and has his own engine as well that he releases tutorials about.

But overall, we don't need that much expertise to acknowledge how bad Dirt 5 looks, it's a disgrace to next gen graphics for a AAA game. You may accept that for like AA and indies, but not a well-funded AAA game.
But the rub here is that, the way he was critiquing it and framing the critique just doesn't make a lot of sense. DiRT isn't a Gran Turismo or Forza; it's never had that type of a budget. So what exactly was he expecting next-gen wise from a cross-gen, 3P middling-budget rally racing game that's also probably been impacted by work-from-home stuff due to COVID?

Expecting a game with all of those factors going on for it, to be a showpiece for a next-gen console...what exactly was he looking for? And Papaveracheeks kept bringing up that he did this because of a community suggestion. That's fine. But I'm pretty sure this wasn't the only suggestion he got. The Assassin's Creed Valhalla footage went up the day before he posted this video, did it cross his mind to at least do a video on that if he is actually in fact interested in good next-gen like game footage running on a Series X? I still don't particularly understand why he framed it as a "mark of shame" for Series X, either, or felt bad for Xbox gamers. It's a multi-platform game, so the logical conclusion would be if it looks bad (btw I don't think the game actually looks bad. Maybe not as much flair as other racing games, but it doesn't look "bad") on one system, it would look bad on the other systems and especially the current-gen platforms, no? I don't think that's how he framed the discussion, though. Not absolutely.

Again, there's no issue if people think the game doesn't look great. Compared to some of the other next-gen game footage we've seen it's not exactly stellar. But people should keep expectations in check. It's not a first-party game. It's not allotted some massive budget, most likely. It was designed with current-gen as the base and adding some features on top for next-gen. And for all we know, it's likely aimed for framerates over visual polish at least in some part, as a creative choice. AND, again, there's the work-from-home stuff due to COVID, maybe they aren't crunching their devs like some other studios are to hit a certain point before deadlines 🤷‍♂️

I just don't think he (Cherno) kept any of those factors in mind. So yeah, he's not impressed with the game and fair enough. And okay, he's busy working on his own stuff along with these reactions. Fair enough. But the insinuations he kept making towards the end...if he was really worried someone was a fanboy sending him intentionally bad footage...why couldn't he have taken time to find better footage? The IGN footage is notorious for being terribly captured, maybe he didn't catch the memo.

But, that's ultimately still on him. Several times, especially towards the end, he seems to suggest it's a problem with the hardware, yet doesn't speculate any further than that. He probably isn't aware of the Gamecore stuff, but the way he leaves it rather open-ended practically invites people to assume the hardware itself is just bad regardless of anything else. Also, he seems to be mistaken that MS released the DiRT 5 footage themselves. They didn't. That was Codemasters, the developer. Just basic information he either doesn't know, or gets mixed up, and because he doesn't know it or bothers to do a little research before making a video about it, draws assumptions that don't really do much but to (whether through any intent of his own or not) stoke console war nonsense.

At the end of the day, as a gaming content creator, particularly with how the hobby is online these days, knowing he has a platform many impressionable people (including a lot of kids and teens) look at, he's ultimately responsible for what he puts out and how that could influence overall discourse. I don't think that's necessarily fair on content creators to have to be responsible for, but that's just kinda how it is, because society is just that screwed up now. And when you break it down there isn't too much WRT substantive, constructive criticism in the video that could be gathered to further healthy discussion.

No disrespect to the guy, but that's kind of an L for 'em.
 

Jon Neu

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DF ploy? There's a big difference between noticing that DF's Richard Leadbetter is biased (though mostly professional) and that Alex Battaglia is flat out a MS apologist (Halo reaction video) and pointing it out with plenty of examples, to what these xbox people here are doing (omg, a game that's on my favourite console looks like shit and a youtuber said it! It MUST be his fault!).
You're the one coming into the thread calling pathetic because someone has dared to point out how biased is the youtuber in question and talking about "ploys".

And it's just so fucking ironic coming from you, because you are one of those crazy Sony fanboys who claim that DF have some kind of anti Sony and MS bias in every fucking DF thread (and outside of them, too).

Care to mention where he's being unfair or biased? The level of detail does pop out at like 2 meters away, the lightning is shitty, the objects in the scene are simplistic, everything is mediocre at best. What do you expect anyone to say? To walk on eggshells and turn into a politician because some people are extremely immature about where they play videogames?
I think nobody is denying the game has a lot of flaws. The fanboyish and clickbaity part of the video is taking a multi game and somehow transform it into "let's bash MS and the Xbox Series X" for some reason, with allusions to Halo Infinite and joking about the 12 teraflops and juvenile stuff like that.

If any of the DF guys made a video like this, there would be half a dozen threads in this forum already with the likes of you saying: "SEE, WE TOLD YOU THEY WERE BIASED!!1!¡".

But if someone does what you accuse DF of doing, but to MS, then you are perfectly happy with it. It's text book fucking hypocrisy.
 

Jon Neu

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Wait, did @Azurro try and call thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best a console warrior?! Lmfaaaaao. The irony in that is fucking golden. Look at both of their post history and you'll see that only one of them is a true console warrior.

The game is multiplatform and more than likely looks and plays better on XSX than ps5. Not sure why this guy isn't doing the same for Sony, and criticizing them? This is why this thread and video are getting criticized, because it's blatant fanboyism, without being objective.
It's fucking embarassing that someone like him can call warrior someone like thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best , but at this point nothing surprises me anymore.
 

Bo_Hazem

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But the rub here is that, the way he was critiquing it and framing the critique just doesn't make a lot of sense. DiRT isn't a Gran Turismo or Forza; it's never had that type of a budget. So what exactly was he expecting next-gen wise from a cross-gen, 3P middling-budget rally racing game that's also probably been impacted by work-from-home stuff due to COVID?

Expecting a game with all of those factors going on for it, to be a showpiece for a next-gen console...what exactly was he looking for? And Papaveracheeks kept bringing up that he did this because of a community suggestion. That's fine. But I'm pretty sure this wasn't the only suggestion he got. The Assassin's Creed Valhalla footage went up the day before he posted this video, did it cross his mind to at least do a video on that if he is actually in fact interested in good next-gen like game footage running on a Series X? I still don't particularly understand why he framed it as a "mark of shame" for Series X, either, or felt bad for Xbox gamers. It's a multi-platform game, so the logical conclusion would be if it looks bad (btw I don't think the game actually looks bad. Maybe not as much flair as other racing games, but it doesn't look "bad") on one system, it would look bad on the other systems and especially the current-gen platforms, no? I don't think that's how he framed the discussion, though. Not absolutely.

Again, there's no issue if people think the game doesn't look great. Compared to some of the other next-gen game footage we've seen it's not exactly stellar. But people should keep expectations in check. It's not a first-party game. It's not allotted some massive budget, most likely. It was designed with current-gen as the base and adding some features on top for next-gen. And for all we know, it's likely aimed for framerates over visual polish at least in some part, as a creative choice. AND, again, there's the work-from-home stuff due to COVID, maybe they aren't crunching their devs like some other studios are to hit a certain point before deadlines 🤷‍♂️

I just don't think he (Cherno) kept any of those factors in mind. So yeah, he's not impressed with the game and fair enough. And okay, he's busy working on his own stuff along with these reactions. Fair enough. But the insinuations he kept making towards the end...if he was really worried someone was a fanboy sending him intentionally bad footage...why couldn't he have taken time to find better footage? The IGN footage is notorious for being terribly captured, maybe he didn't catch the memo.

But, that's ultimately still on him. Several times, especially towards the end, he seems to suggest it's a problem with the hardware, yet doesn't speculate any further than that. He probably isn't aware of the Gamecore stuff, but the way he leaves it rather open-ended practically invites people to assume the hardware itself is just bad regardless of anything else. Also, he seems to be mistaken that MS released the DiRT 5 footage themselves. They didn't. That was Codemasters, the developer. Just basic information he either doesn't know, or gets mixed up, and because he doesn't know it or bothers to do a little research before making a video about it, draws assumptions that don't really do much but to (whether through any intent of his own or not) stoke console war nonsense.

At the end of the day, as a gaming content creator, particularly with how the hobby is online these days, knowing he has a platform many impressionable people (including a lot of kids and teens) look at, he's ultimately responsible for what he puts out and how that could influence overall discourse. I don't think that's necessarily fair on content creators to have to be responsible for, but that's just kinda how it is, because society is just that screwed up now. And when you break it down there isn't too much WRT substantive, constructive criticism in the video that could be gathered to further healthy discussion.

No disrespect to the guy, but that's kind of an L for 'em.
See, dear friend, I guess you've never seen his other reactions. He picks negatives in many other games, including PS5's ones. Dirt 5 looks extremely bad for a next gen, there is no other way around it, it's an eyesore. And even older Dirt games look much better than that.









It's not up to their standards even. WTF is this?

 

DonJuanSchlong

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It's fucking embarassing that someone like him can call warrior someone like thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best , but at this point nothing surprises me anymore.
Exactly! thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best never drops hot takes, drive bys, etc. He's one of the most unbiased posters on this site! On the other hand azurro does fanboy shit all the time. Someone find me a single post from him that isn't full of blatant fanboyism, and I'll buy you GAF Gold.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Exactly! thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best never drops hot takes, drive bys, etc. He's one of the most unbiased posters on this site! On the other hand azurro does fanboy shit all the time. Someone find me a single post from him that isn't full of blatant fanboyism, and I'll buy you GAF Gold.
Here:


Now please go and buy me a gold.:messenger_sunglasses:
 

DonJuanSchlong

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Gamerguy84

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Let's remember that he didn't pick this up to analyze it. A guy on Twitter hand picked and sent this to him asking him to check it out.

Even the original Pong will look like Pong on the PS5/SX. It can be 288fps and 4k but its still Pong.
 
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Kuranghi

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Enjoy the rest here:


And this:

In "resolution" mode, the game runs in an apparently uncapped frame rate; this bounces between 30fps and 60fps, which averages out to roughly 40fps. This mode's dynamic resolution maxes out near 2160p and falls as low as an apparent 1440p. (Compared to Xbox One's heavily aliased DiRT 4, the jump in resolution this time around is very appreciated.) Drop to DiRT 5's middle "frame rate" setting, and you'll see a mild hit to texture pop-in on the ground ahead of you, along with a noticeable hit to shadow pop-in in the near distance. Settings are otherwise mostly left intact, other than a dynamic resolution that scales down lower, while the frame rate gets close to, but doesn't lock to, 60fps.

Stop blaming the wrong people, and shift it either to Codemaster or Xbox Division.
This sounds kinda crap: "Resolution mode" doesn't have a fixed resolution and can go as low as 1440p, while the framerate is unlocked so will either look or feel bad depending on whether v-sync is on or off. I'm guessing they will prioritise feel so probably off and filled with tearing. Meanwhile "Framerate mode" can't keep a constant framerate lock? It doesn't have to be perfect but I'd expect it to be getting there 99% of the time, otherwise wth is the point of calling it "fps-mode".

Even if its just dropping down to 50-55 fps for a few seconds in every other race, thats a very big deal in a racing game, it will be the difference between champagne and bucks fizz. So probably best to get that locked down to 60, I'm guessing they don't want to make it look worse than it does in "fps-mode" though.

The "Res-mode" not having a lock to 30 and higher IQ is beyond confusing to me. Nobody wants an average of 45 with drops to 30 and peaks at 60, it feels awful. 30fps maybe be sluggish but at least its consistent when its locked.
 
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tryDEATH

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But the rub here is that, the way he was critiquing it and framing the critique just doesn't make a lot of sense. DiRT isn't a Gran Turismo or Forza; it's never had that type of a budget. So what exactly was he expecting next-gen wise from a cross-gen, 3P middling-budget rally racing game that's also probably been impacted by work-from-home stuff due to COVID?

Expecting a game with all of those factors going on for it, to be a showpiece for a next-gen console...what exactly was he looking for? And Papaveracheeks kept bringing up that he did this because of a community suggestion. That's fine. But I'm pretty sure this wasn't the only suggestion he got. The Assassin's Creed Valhalla footage went up the day before he posted this video, did it cross his mind to at least do a video on that if he is actually in fact interested in good next-gen like game footage running on a Series X? I still don't particularly understand why he framed it as a "mark of shame" for Series X, either, or felt bad for Xbox gamers. It's a multi-platform game, so the logical conclusion would be if it looks bad (btw I don't think the game actually looks bad. Maybe not as much flair as other racing games, but it doesn't look "bad") on one system, it would look bad on the other systems and especially the current-gen platforms, no? I don't think that's how he framed the discussion, though. Not absolutely.

Again, there's no issue if people think the game doesn't look great. Compared to some of the other next-gen game footage we've seen it's not exactly stellar. But people should keep expectations in check. It's not a first-party game. It's not allotted some massive budget, most likely. It was designed with current-gen as the base and adding some features on top for next-gen. And for all we know, it's likely aimed for framerates over visual polish at least in some part, as a creative choice. AND, again, there's the work-from-home stuff due to COVID, maybe they aren't crunching their devs like some other studios are to hit a certain point before deadlines 🤷‍♂️

I just don't think he (Cherno) kept any of those factors in mind. So yeah, he's not impressed with the game and fair enough. And okay, he's busy working on his own stuff along with these reactions. Fair enough. But the insinuations he kept making towards the end...if he was really worried someone was a fanboy sending him intentionally bad footage...why couldn't he have taken time to find better footage? The IGN footage is notorious for being terribly captured, maybe he didn't catch the memo.

But, that's ultimately still on him. Several times, especially towards the end, he seems to suggest it's a problem with the hardware, yet doesn't speculate any further than that. He probably isn't aware of the Gamecore stuff, but the way he leaves it rather open-ended practically invites people to assume the hardware itself is just bad regardless of anything else. Also, he seems to be mistaken that MS released the DiRT 5 footage themselves. They didn't. That was Codemasters, the developer. Just basic information he either doesn't know, or gets mixed up, and because he doesn't know it or bothers to do a little research before making a video about it, draws assumptions that don't really do much but to (whether through any intent of his own or not) stoke console war nonsense.

At the end of the day, as a gaming content creator, particularly with how the hobby is online these days, knowing he has a platform many impressionable people (including a lot of kids and teens) look at, he's ultimately responsible for what he puts out and how that could influence overall discourse. I don't think that's necessarily fair on content creators to have to be responsible for, but that's just kinda how it is, because society is just that screwed up now. And when you break it down there isn't too much WRT substantive, constructive criticism in the video that could be gathered to further healthy discussion.

No disrespect to the guy, but that's kind of an L for 'em.
It's clear as day what he was doing and how he was framing the whole video, its that Sony fans are trying to prop up anyone that is pro-Sony since they got pissed at DF, yet all were happy when DF started and the PS4 had the edge on the the Xbox One. Ever since the One X and especially the Series X reveal they knew what is coming up and are trying to discredit DF any which way they can, while propping up someone else that leans their way not matter how disingenious they are with their defense of this guy.

A capable engine developer wouldn't waste his time making videos on YouTube, he would be working for a established developer on a established engine not on little engine projects that isn't going anywhere. Especially since he claimed the knowledge he picked up on what game engines need and don't need while he was an intern. This guy is transitioning into a YouTuber, he isn't getting another job in the industry.
 

BlueXImpulse

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DF has the XSX in house. DF ran actual frame rate tests on the game and acknowledged that it was early code. DF didn't make any fanboy comments about it being a mobile game or feeling 'sorry' for Xbox gamers playing a multi platform title.
How does that make DF more credible than Cherno? Cherno only commented on what was presented in front of him.
 

Killer Sakoman

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You have receipts of the PS5 version of dirt 5 that looks nextgen I would love to see the videos. Your comparing a first party game on 3 platforms vs a third party game on 8 platforms. Yes the series x is so hard to develop for a one man outfit will have a game ready for launch.
Isn't Halo infinate a 1st party game? It had the exact same problem
 

PSX

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See, dear friend, I guess you've never seen his other reactions. He picks negatives in many other games, including PS5's ones. Dirt 5 looks extremely bad for a next gen, there is no other way around it, it's an eyesore. And even older Dirt games look much better than that.









It's not up to their standards even. WTF is this?

Anti aliasing completely off to gain performance? on Dirt 5 image clearly blurry on when you zoom in I assume it will be so clear to see in big 4k TVs
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Anti aliasing completely off to gain performance? on Dirt 5 image clearly blurry on when you zoom in I assume it will be so clear to see in big 4k TVs
It's beyond AA, those Dirt Rally 2.0 screenshots look pretty sharp.
 
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JTCx

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DF has the XSX in house. DF ran actual frame rate tests on the game and acknowledged that it was early code. DF didn't make any fanboy comments about it being a mobile game or feeling 'sorry' for Xbox gamers playing a multi platform title.
Ok is this suppose to make the game look less shit?
 

Papacheeks

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I've seen enough of this thread that really shows how bad this place can get. I'm no angel and have been called out on it from time to time. At least for the most part I'm honest about it. I'm not going to call out people in this thread but I am going to clear the air on what I think is going on:

  • I think the reactions we are seeing not just from CHerno but from youtube outlets, and the likes of ars-technica is because of limited footage/game exposure of final products running on xbox series x.​
  • There's some here and there, and as we get closer more previews are popping up of games running on the system. But xbox currently hasn't had something tangible like Halo running with Ray tracing on or something substantial thats new to showcase the power.​
  • Dirt 5 running on various modes they have for series x doesn't help since it looks like track wise the game feels uneven when compared to Dirt 2.0 at ultra on PC. I think the biggest issue like others pointed out is Dirt 5 is a cross-gen game now with some new graphical enhancements that in the right conditions on certain tracks looks pretty good.​
  • But because of the different ways you can choose to play the game on xbox series x, it's hard to have a master graphics setting that looks best to show off since the game itself seems to be uneven in what we've seen so far.​
  • And it being something of a not final build is weird since the game launches literally soon.​
  • I think the issue isn't really that dirt looks the way it does, it's more or less that in terms of new software running on series x it seems to be the one Microsoft has the most footage of circulating the internet.​
  • And that is not a good showing, there should be tons of other games being shown with ray tracing running on series x. Watch dogs legion's footage featuring all the new next gen graphical enhancements is being shown via mostly PC footage from what I could gather a day or so ago.​
  • I mean cherno has really nothing else to compare it too right? What other xbox series x footage does he have to compare that has ray traced reflections? Gears 5 doest have it I dont believe. The game looks great with all the bells and whistles but you can tell it's a current gen game. The same is said about Dirt 5, and watch dogs.​
  • I think if there was something else to compare it to as a base line it would not come off the way it does.​

Like if we hade a big Xbox first party game to compare that was totally new/next gen I think there could be more comparison he could do in his video.


Just my 2 cents.
 
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PSX

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Nobody is pretending the PS5 version no one knows yet how it looks either so I believe MS/Sony probably will update it eventually otherwise it will be a meme like Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem says 🧠
 
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skneogaf

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This game is a bad advertisement for early access and different visual modes as haters are using both for the narrative.

Maybe codemasters should stipulated some rules about what was shown as the game isn't looking as good as I think it will end up being.

I bet the final version with hdr at 4k 60fps etc will be really good looking.
 
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Papacheeks

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This game is a bad advertisement for early access and different visual modes as haters are using both for the narrative.

Maybe codemasters should stipulated some rules about what was shown as the game isn't looking as good as I think it will end up being.

I bet the final version with hdr at 4k 60fps etc will be really good looking.
But thats what Ars-technica had? They talked about the HDR, among other things going on in the build they had. Issues is the game itself asset wise, is current gen. And when you look at the cars, level assets like rocks/tree's etc it's very apparent that is what others are picking apart. Playing the game at 60-120fps seems to be the big non issue, same with the resolution.

It's the final settings, and some of the uneven tracks in terms of assets and how they look that seems to be mis-leading and jarring. Some of them with the weather effects looks great, and how things like snow deformation.

Others have really good added textures in how the mudd kicks up on the cars and the refection's in the puddles.

It just is not a great game to showcase a 12tf console let alone a new gen.

If we had a new forza or updated one I think maybe you could then draw some more comparisons but as it is now, there isn't a lot of super high end next gen games from third party let alone MS first party to compare.
 
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DarkMage619

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How does that make DF more credible than Cherno? Cherno only commented on what was presented in front of him.
One video was taken first hand from people who have actually played the game. One video was done watching a video. I'll go with the people who have actually played the game.
Ok is this suppose to make the game look less shit?
I think the comments about the game are hyperbolic. It isn't not the most amazing looking racer but it looks fine considering there aren't other console racing games running at higher frame rates.
 

Papacheeks

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Forget about Dirt 5 for a second. What makes DF (Richard, John and Alex) more credible than Cherno the engine developer who has worked for a AAA company?
Nothing. Their analysis is done by sometimes 3 people all with different perspectives because of the difference in age and experience. Also DF has access to more than CHerno in terms of software, and analytic tools at their disposal. Cherno is self employed. DF employed by Eurogamer.
 

Matsuchezz

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Dirt 5 was shown on the Xbox reveal, wasn't it? Probably that is why it is taken so personally on the Xbox side that the game looks like ass. It was the flagship car game for XsX, and it is ending up looking bad. Hopefully I have never been a car game fan.
I will try Gran Turismo 7 because that game looks fucking gorgeous. I would like to have a cheat code where everything is unlocked and I want to access all cars and all tracks without entering career mode, i do not have time to play through all that I just want to enjoy the pretty cars and views!
 
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