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Child Abuse Scandal in UK grows to implicate MPs, celebs - Update Posts #900/#1100

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phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Some guy said:
A quick, err, notice. Post 923 is highly libellous, it's not you that gets into trouble DECK, it's EviLore and GAF that would get sued if any of the parties involved decide to take any action. Good post though, I would however blank out the names of the people who have not been yet proved guilty and just replace them with asterisks or generic terms.

I wouldn't!

Obviously it's up to you, but like I said, it's not you that gets sued, it's EviLore and GAF that would take the hit as they would be sued via an American court for your details and that costs money to defend.

It is highly unlikely, given constitutional protections, that this would fly in the US

Edit: I would also remove any and all references to Alistair McAlpine. Word is that his lawyers are just trawling through Google at the moment to look for references made to him after the Newsnight aired, and the way libel laws work in the UK, McAlpine is bound the law to sue everyone that may have defamed him, he can't just pick and choose, so again if they come across this thread and your posts, there is a fair chance that they will include NeoGAF in any action.

No he isn't. He's not bound by law to do any such thing.


However, Deck, for your own protection I'd steer clear of hosting this anywhere but on GAF for the moment.

This is off the top of my head for now, as I'm in the shop, but I'll check my books when I get home this evening just to be sure.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
I wouldn't!



It is highly unlikely, given constitutional protections, that this would fly in the US



No he isn't. He's not bound by law to do any such thing.


However, Deck, for your own protection I'd steer clear of hosting this anywhere but on GAF for the moment.

This is off the top of my head for now, as I'm in the shop, but I'll check my books when I get home this evening just to be sure.

Cheers, much appreciated.
 

operon

Member
Deck'ard your work on this is great, glad to see someone isn't going to let this be covered up.

PS I love worms
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
Some guy said:
Very likely. Remember as a part of the new TOS of GAF, NeoGAF owns full rights to all of the posts made on GAF, we the users have no rights to them. The changes were probably made for cases like these to indemnify GAF from legal action as they can just nuke stuff and make a quick settlement.

From where I stand this is how it goes down, lawyers contact NeoGAF, say that this thread and its contents are libellous, take it down and enter into settlement talks for allowing it or face legal action. GAF takes down the thread and hands over a $10k settlement and also hands over user information. Fighting a case like this will bankrupt NeoGAF long before it bankrupts anyone who would sue.

You forget the part about I will pay for any legal actions that results and fight it at every stage.

That's the best use of royalties I can imagine, and do you REALLY think they want attention drawn to this in the first place?
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
If you do a Google search you will notice that all the sites who make the wider claims, and in graphic detail, are still standing and unsued.

No one sued in 1994 either.
 

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Let's not all get sidetracked into the legal stuff here. Like I said, I'll check it out tonight.
 

mclem

Member
Some guy said:
If you want to keep it up send it to somewhere like Wikileaks (if it is still going) or make a torrent file and upload it to the pirate bay.

Which would - ironically - have the side-effect of making it tricky to get hold of in the UK.
 

Nicktendo86

Member
Deck it has been said many times before but thank you for all of your hard work in this thread, the thought of bringing all of these strands together makes my head hurt so well done mate.
 

Novid

Banned
Thanks Deck - this is nearly a situation that almost looks like the Penn State scandal here in the states but this is much much worse.

The biggest question I have is why the BBC knew of one incident of Savile doing such acts (off camera mind you) on TOTP and didnt fire him on the spot? the dudes just laugh it off? Come on now seriously. They fired folks for SO MUCH LESS.

And since now we on governmental hypcrociy - i remember the UK MP's producing some sort of edict back around 2010 - stating that any UK citizen that had some sort of manga etc that can be percived as underage could spend 3 years in jail (this is on top of all the "stealing" or pirating of music). I find it highly ironic now with all this Saville/Governmental/Media/Royal bs coming out.
 

Kelthink

Member
The biggest question I have is why the BBC knew of one incident of Savile doing such acts (off camera mind you) on TOTP and didnt fire him on the spot? the dudes just laugh it off? Come on now seriously. They fired folks for SO MUCH LESS.

I think there was a case of 'I know what you've done so you'll keep my secret safe' - even in the Louis Theroux documentary, there's a part where he tells Louis that he's found Louis' personal details through 'contacts' - seemed a bit weird at the time, now we all know it was more sinister. He was a powerful man. Had dirt on the police as well.
 

Novid

Banned
I think there was a case of 'I know what you've done so you'll keep my secret safe' - even in the Louis Theroux documentary, there's a part where he tells Louis that he's found Louis' personal details through 'contacts' - seemed a bit weird at the time, now we all know it was more sinister. He was a powerful man. Had dirt on the police as well.

get the fuck out of here... and god knows what musical acts he refused to air... this dude pretty much was the "king" of media back then...
 

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
I've also noticed a curious psychological thing going on where the bigger the story has got, the less some people want to know. When in theory the angrier they should be getting. When it was isolated and involved a celebrity in Savile it was much easier to comprehend and be outraged, mock or talk about it. Now? Not so much.

Nobody wants to know how far something like this spreads, that this type of dehumanization could exist on a larger scale, rather than a couple of nutjobs who happened to have power and opportunity. Just reading the summary in the OP is mind blowing and sad.
 

Novid

Banned
Nobody wants to know how far something like this spreads, that this type of dehumanization could exist on a larger scale, rather than a couple of nutjobs who happened to have power and opportunity. Just reading the summary in the OP is mind blowing and sad.

you better know. because it explains why women (once they come of age) get shafted at every turn, why the feds try and limit the net as much as possible, why the feds are always trying protect "the children" but create a system where the media raises them to a pedestal (unessarly so), half the parents dont do anything and the other half are told "there is nothing to see here" by a government taking not only there financial futures away but now - there pycological futures as well.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
Thanks for that summary/update. Unbelievable :s

Is the BBC covering any of this themselves in their news?

Cheers, my brain is quite fried from doing it all actually. On the way to BK for some bacon double cheeseburgers :)

None of the mainstream print media or television is attempting to link it all together. The closest is Channel 4 news which was the one who broke the North Wales scandal all over again. It's all out there just in bits, some of the media is ignoring whole chunks completely.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
Realised that I live about 15 minutes walk away from the old Bryn Estyn children's home yesterday.

That must drive it home even harder.

We owe it to the victims for this all to be pulled into the light, no matter who doesn't want that to happen.
 
That must drive it home even harder.

We owe it to the victims for this all to be pulled into the light, no matter who doesn't want that to happen.
Thanks for the summary, you're a very cool dude.

I'm from the US, and I probably shouldn't be admitting this but I was institutionalized for a few months as a kid and it was the worst experience of my life. It makes me absolutely furious to think how much worse these poor children had it. Shutting them up with the offers of outside trips and extra privileges and threats of punishment is just beyond disgusting and I can understand why these people never trusted anyone in positions of authority again.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
Thanks for the summary, you're a very cool dude.

I'm from the US, and I probably shouldn't be admitting this but I was institutionalized for a few months as a kid and it was the worst experience of my life. It makes me absolutely furious to think how much worse these poor children had it. Shutting them up with the offers of outside trips and extra privileges and threats of punishment is just beyond disgusting and I can understand why these people never trusted anyone in positions of authority again.

Sorry to hear that, but you are actually stronger by speaking about it.

As would all the victims from all this who are still alive, as long as they are listened to and believed. Which they were being, until a Lord happened to be mentioned instead of a celebrity who was dead.
 
its like walking on eggshells barefoot right now...

At least they're covering it on their website:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20117669

Choice quote:

The telephone survey of more than 1,000 British adults by Comres, on behalf of BBC Radio 5 live, found that 45% of those asked agreed that the corporation was "trustworthy".

When a similar study was undertaken in 2009, 62% of people felt the BBC was a trusted source.

Nearly two-third of adults polled also felt the BBC's reputation had suffered "lasting damage", however 62% agreed the BBC is still a national institution of which they are "proud".

No real digging though.
 

Novid

Banned
I wonder if one has heard of the story of Holly Greig a young girl with down syndrome that both her father and her uncle abused her. But it also seems that both her father and uncle are connected to higher ups in Scottish Government and Police. Nothing has come up since this was known in 2010...
 

teeny

Member
I wonder if one has heard of the story of Holly Greig a young girl with down syndrome that both her father and her uncle abused her. But it also seems that both her father and uncle are connected to higher ups in Scottish Government and Police. Nothing has come up since this was known in 2010...

Holy crap, I just read http://holliegreig.info/. Unbelievable. Most of the uninformed people I have debated with have been in the position that "it all happened a long time ago, things are different now". Same shit.

Edit: Just read this section of the homepage:

The Uncle of Hollie Greig was brutally murdered with what appears to be an axe handle. He was found dead in a burning car in a situation that appears to be arson. This was a few weeks after he reportedly walked in on Holly being sexually assaulted by her father.

Words just fail me that nothing was even done after that incident!
 

Novid

Banned
what grinds my gears...you have this son of a bitch. and i do mean a son of a god damn bitch - host a show for 20 years ... granting kids there wish...

even after all the shit he pulled on his other show...
even after all the bullshit he pulled protecting his connections.
the bbc did not a god damn blasted thing?
he couldnt be that powerful.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
what grinds my gears...you have this son of a bitch. and i do mean a son of a god damn bitch - host a show for 20 years ... granting kids there wish...

even after all the shit he pulled on his other show...
even after all the bullshit he pulled protecting his connections.
the bbc did not a god damn blasted thing?
he couldnt be that powerful.

He wasn't, but he knew people who were.

And everyone was complicit in the abuse of children, so no one falls.
 

Novid

Banned
Holy crap, I just read http://holliegreig.info/. Unbelievable. Most of the uninformed people I have debated with have been in the position that "it all happened a long time ago, things are different now". Same shit.

remember that brown and his boys at the same time this was going down did this (i mentioned it in a post earlier) saying they were going to protect the UK Kids from the "oversexualiation" of the kids from "them damn dirty (insert asian country here)" i dont have the link on me but it just so fucking rich to see how much the establishment over there were playing everybody (like i stated years ago when these edicts came out) for fools.
 

Novid

Banned
He wasn't, but he knew people who were.

And everyone was complicit in the abuse of children, so no one falls.

yes and it could explain a lot of things. it aint over and trust me - its bigger than one can imagine. this is worse than sad - somebody got to throw some blokes out of their bloody perches.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
Children In Need is going to be all kinds of weird tonight.

Raising money for children while what must be thousands (just North Wales + Savile is over 1000) who were already failed as children over decades still wait for justice.

Very sad, and very fucked up.
 

teeny

Member
Children In Need is going to be all kinds of weird tonight.

Raising money for children while what must be thousands (just North Wales + Savile is over 1000) who were already failed as children over decades still wait for justice.

Very sad, and very fucked up.

To be honest, I don't even know if I can face watching it.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
To be honest, I don't even know if I can face watching it.

Me neither.

I'm still also struggling to understand some of the people on Facebook who complained that summary had ruined their day and it shouldn't be posted as they are sick of hearing about it all. Despite the fact they are NOT hearing about it all.

On the day of Children In Need. You couldn't make it up, and it makes me so very sad.
 

EliCash

Member
DECK'ARD, cheers for summarizing all that, great work. Really fucked up, I'm not sure why people are sick of hearing all this when they seem to only be familiar with the tip of the iceberg. The whole thing is infuriating to read, but at this stage not at all surprising which is the worst part.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
I've just emailed Channel 4 news, saying I couldn't understand why the wider media wasn't doing it and I hope they find it useful.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
Just turned on Channel 4 news and ironically it had Michael Gove MP saying how more children should be taken into care as quickly as possible.

I hope they are checking their inbox.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
Chris (Simpsons artist)'s take on Children In Need seems very appropriate:

 

leadbelly

Banned
Thanks for the summary, you're a very cool dude.

I'm from the US, and I probably shouldn't be admitting this but I was institutionalized for a few months as a kid and it was the worst experience of my life. It makes me absolutely furious to think how much worse these poor children had it. Shutting them up with the offers of outside trips and extra privileges and threats of punishment is just beyond disgusting and I can understand why these people never trusted anyone in positions of authority again.

Yeah. My mother was an orphan and grew up, along with her brothers, in a children's home. I know my one uncle had some pretty bad experiences growing up in a home, but I won't go into that. The reason peadophiles target these children is because they know they're very vulnerable. There is no one there to truly look out for them. Of course you have the care workers, and some of them may care about the children, but at the end of the day, they're not their children. What probably happens though is the care workers, or at least some of them, are in on it. In that instance they're quite simply left to the wolves.

It's so sad because these are the children that have probably had it the worst. My mother for instance was an orphan at the age of 8. She actually walked in on her mother dead in the bed. And so you can see just how tough some of these children have had it. They are the most vulnerable, the children who need the most care, and yet instead of society doing what they can to at least give them something good in their life, you get these predatory wolves ready to pounce at any chance they get.
 

Wilbur

Banned
Update #2:

Just read all this. When its all collated together here and you're not just picking bits and pieces from various stories, its even worse. I got tears in my eyes reading it and I'm not sure exactly why; whether its out of sadness or anger. But its fucking horrifying and I can't believe that its happening.

... my tag is the absolute worst to have here
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
Yeah. My mother was an orphan and grew up, along with her brothers, in a children's home. I know my one uncle had some pretty bad experiences growing up in a home, but I won't go into that. The reason peadophiles target these children is because they know they're very vulnerable. There is no one there to truly look out for them. Of course you have the care workers, and some of them may care about the children, but at the end of the day, they're not their children. What probably happens though is the care workers, or at least some of them, are in on it. In that instance they're quite simply left to the wolves.

It's so sad because these are the children that have probably had it the worst. My mother for instance was an orphan at the age of 8. She actually walked in on her mother dead in the bed. And so you can see just how tough some of these children have had it. They are the most vulnerable, the children who need the most care, and yet instead of society doing what they can to at least give them something good in their life, you get these predatory wolves ready to pounce at any chance they get.

Yep, and that's why it gets me so angry and why this country will be forever broken until we are brave enough to fix it.

This is to do with money, power, and the abuse of it in all senses. Targeting the most vulnerable, and protected by silence.
 

teeny

Member
Me neither.

I'm still also struggling to understand some of the people on Facebook who complained that summary had ruined their day and it shouldn't be posted as they are sick of hearing about it all. Despite the fact they are NOT hearing about it all.

On the day of Children In Need. You couldn't make it up, and it makes me so very sad.

I have gotten similar responses when I have shown people and brought it up. Most people simply refuse to believe that a scandal and coverup of this magnitude is even possible.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
I have gotten similar responses when I have shown people and brought it up. Most people simply refuse to believe that a scandal and coverup of this magnitude is even possible.

Yet it's been staring them right in the face.

A well-known celebrity abusing children while raising money for charity, on television, in the papers, at the BBC, at the Palace, at Stoke Mandeville hospital, at Broadmoor, at care homes, anywhere he damn well wanted. For 40 years. Abusing HUNDREDS of children.

People knew, it was just us and his victims that didn't until it was too late. You can't get away with it for that long in plain sight without protection from the top down. And then ask WHY he had that protection. All the public need to do is open their eyes, or be forced to open them.
 
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