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Chris Avellone is getting cancelled

niilokin

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Feb 21, 2019
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Wow. Just wow. I didn't know that Twitter consists of local law enforcement, investigations, due process and a court of law. Holy shit!!!

No interest in the Vampire game but still very much hyped for Dying Light 2. Will never understand why companies get scared based on allegations as opposed to actual proof. Ugh.
"Because we at [Brand] care."
 
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BigBooper

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Feb 28, 2018
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Remember when we thought Japan was going too far erasing the Judgement actor for having drugs? Oh what naive children we were last year.

At this point, I can't imagine any reasonable man working in games to not have a voice recorder on you constantly.
 

anthraticus

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Sep 11, 2018
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On a related note and speaking of RPGs, I wonder how WotC most recent posturing will impact Baldur 3.

Difficult times ahead for big RPG franchises.
Ehh, looking more forward to these anyway and don't think they 2 shits about all the SJW crap. Plus Larian is gonna try and appeal to the masses more, as opposed to these devs which target more of a niche cRPG fanbase.

Colony Ship: A Post-Earth Role Playing Game
Knights of the Chalice 2
Realms Beyond: Ashes of the Fallen
Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous
Underrail: Infusion
 

Helios

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Jun 13, 2018
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Beyond the Colors of Time
I'm currently deciding between Chris being depressed to the point of having reached acceptance or having decided to just not give a fuck and start trolling (As they couldn't possibly get him to court for this).
He probably knows there's almost no way he's getting out of this. Let's say none of this ever happened, who would believe him? Everyone in the industry already painted him as a sex offender / rapist etc.
Now I do believe it happened, but I also believe it's nothing except cringy shit that should've been their own personal business.
 

Ladioss

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Oct 21, 2018
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Colony Ship: A Post-Earth Role Playing Game
Knights of the Chalice 2
Realms Beyond: Ashes of the Fallen
Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous
Underrail: Infusion
Haven't tried the others yet but Underrail is so, so good. Favorite CRPG of the gen along with Age of Decadence.
Infusion is years away, I believe ?
 
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anthraticus

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Sep 11, 2018
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Haven't tried the others yet but Underrail is so, so good. Favorite CRPG of the gen along with Age of Decadence.
Infusion is years away, I believe ?
I wouldn't doubt it. And the other games aren't out either.

The Colony Ship game is from the Age of Decadence dev and the first KotC is on Steam now, btw.
 
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Ladioss

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Oct 21, 2018
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She is getting desperate : four days of baseless abuse and smear campaign, and CA hasn't committed suicide yet.

I wish it was only gallows humor. Sorry
 
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Aug 11, 2019
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When I was in my early teens I dreamed of being involved in games development. I taught myself some basic programming languages and started coming up with (what I thought were) unique ideas that I could turn into games. I figured out within a couple years that programming just wasn't for me and I dipped out.

Holy shit I'm glad I didn't go through with it and get stuck in an industry full of self congratulatory scavengers that circle your ass the second they smell blood in the water. This obviously isn't exclusive to the games industry - it's most of anything involved in entertainment. Pretty lame stuff if you ask me. Is the guy an asshole? Maybe, but with what we've been provided with the guy doesn't deserve this. Things may change down the road, who knows.
 

hariseldon

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Aug 22, 2018
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When I was in my early teens I dreamed of being involved in games development. I taught myself some basic programming languages and started coming up with (what I thought were) unique ideas that I could turn into games. I figured out within a couple years that programming just wasn't for me and I dipped out.

Holy shit I'm glad I didn't go through with it and get stuck in an industry full of self congratulatory scavengers that circle your ass the second they smell blood in the water. This obviously isn't exclusive to the games industry - it's most of anything involved in entertainment. Pretty lame stuff if you ask me. Is the guy an asshole? Maybe, but with what we've been provided with the guy doesn't deserve this. Things may change down the road, who knows.
Tbh I have similar feelings - I made some games in my youth that would have been fine for the public domain libraries of the day (this was on the Atari ST) and might have gone down that path but thankfully I ended up in web development and now build enterprise application software. It's a much more bullshit-free environment where I work now (I'd advise against web dev agency work as I exited that area in 2012-ish and it was, in hindsight, already showing signs of going down the path of SJW). I consider myself hugely fortunate to work at a company that lacks a HR department and which is not overrun with SJWs, where the women make filthier jokes than the men and can drink us all under the table. It's like being in the 90s and it's fucking great.

These people prey on vulnerable men, you only have to look at the Quinn/Holowka situation to see that. It's an absolute fucking mess.
 

Helscream

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Nov 11, 2011
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This shit right here boils my blood. Chris Avellone, the man who did the writing on games like...

Fallout 2
Planescape Torment
Icewind Dale
Baldurs Gate Dark Alliance
Champions of Norrath
Stars Wars The Old Republic
Neverwinter Nights
Fallout New Vegas
Wasteland 2
Pillars of Eternity
Tyranny
Divinity Original Sin 2

Gets his career and lively hood destroyed by some covetous woman? Is todays world so obsessed with the glorification of victimhood that we will eternally damn all who are accused of any trespass without due process? Here is some food for thought for the fools who think its best to do away with "innocent till proven guilty" and "due process".

William Roper: “So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!”
Sir Thomas More: “Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?”
William Roper: “Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!”
Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!”

-Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


The feckless cowards that do this bullshit on social media and populate websites like ResetEra don't freaking get it. Its all fun and games when your the one cutting down the laws and unjustly passing judgement on those you don't like. But when all the laws are cut down, where you gonna hide when the devil comes for your sorry ass?

I don't use social media because of this garbage, but if Chris Avellone ever pays a visit to NeoGAF. We appreciate all your hard work on all the badass games you worked on and this GAFer stands with you.
 
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niilokin

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Feb 21, 2019
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All the other men quickly rush to show their support and dedication to weed out the scum of the earth, in hopes of no one ever finding out they are too, human themselves, after all.
 
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Saruhashi

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Oct 2, 2018
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Tbh I have similar feelings - I made some games in my youth that would have been fine for the public domain libraries of the day (this was on the Atari ST) and might have gone down that path but thankfully I ended up in web development and now build enterprise application software. It's a much more bullshit-free environment where I work now (I'd advise against web dev agency work as I exited that area in 2012-ish and it was, in hindsight, already showing signs of going down the path of SJW). I consider myself hugely fortunate to work at a company that lacks a HR department and which is not overrun with SJWs, where the women make filthier jokes than the men and can drink us all under the table. It's like being in the 90s and it's fucking great.

These people prey on vulnerable men, you only have to look at the Quinn/Holowka situation to see that. It's an absolute fucking mess.
There's a guy in my place who has dated at least 4 of the women in our company (it's a big place).
Some of them have left now but I was thinking he must be shitting his pants with all that's going on.
Pretty sure one of the break ups was nasty.

This case seems pretty strange really because I don't think this guy is being accused of rape or sexual assault or anything?
Seems like the main point here is that he was an abusive partner (with the only specific being he stormed out of a restaurant once) and he sent a few dirty texts to someone who was already in a relationship?

I'm not sure exactly how this is justification for blacklisting someone from an entire industry?

I could see it if the guy had beat up his wife and was charged and convicted. Sure.

I kind of feel sorry for young lads today.
Imagine going on a few dates with a colleague and then realizing that she's really into drama and emotional manipulation and control and random outbursts. What are you supposed to do? Dump them? Not if you want to have to dump your entire life too.
 

Saruhashi

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Oct 2, 2018
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Yeah I'm sitting next gen out.

I don't want my potential content getting snipped and cancelled and adjusted mid-development because some self-entitled zealots. Companies have shown themselves to be spineless.

In the past, I viewed this as largely a moral / principled stand. Game devs are allowed to stand up for whatever causes they believe in. Not a big deal. Didn't bother me.

But now it is tipping so far past that threshold, buying products from these brands seems like disappointment and broken promises waiting to happen. The game industry is more than just a collection of IPs. It's a market of talented artists, designers, and writers. When talent gets jettisoned from the industry due to slander, it's time to stop buying.

Feel free to continue listening to non-customers, videogame industry.
I am considering the same.
The industry seems to operate like a High School with gossip and bullying and cancelling.
With Twitter and Medium and Facebook being the ways that people try to publicly bitch about each other and try to humiliate each other.

It seems really fucked up.
They set up a situation where you need things like Twitter to get your name out there and build up opportunities in the industry but then Twitter is also there like a public Human Resources platform where you can just accuse a colleague and that's them done.

You have to end up asking why you're giving your money to these people.

If the accusations here are true then it's a private issue.
It's not stuff that should be used to bring an entire industry down on someone to make sure they "never work in this town again".

Then you can look at things like the drama over Ion Fury or Kingdom Come or The Last Night or other indie titles where if there is anything that displeases the mob they will do their best to try and have your game shut down.

Some of these folks just seem SO desperate for the gaming industry to have it's "me too moment" but the stuff they are coming out with is things that just sound like clumsy flirting or bad breakups.

These issues should be getting dealt with behind closed doors.
I don't need to know that some designer/writer sent some dirty texts to one of his friends while he was drunk.
I certainly don't need to know that he did it SEVEN years ago. How the hell am I supposed to contextualize that?
I'm not even sure how a naughty text from seven years ago is any of his current employers business?

How the hell would that go in future job interviews?
"Well, it says here that about 10 years ago you got drunk and texted a female friend saying that you'd like to have sex with her. So we can't offer you the job."
 

hariseldon

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Aug 22, 2018
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There's a guy in my place who has dated at least 4 of the women in our company (it's a big place).
Some of them have left now but I was thinking he must be shitting his pants with all that's going on.
Pretty sure one of the break ups was nasty.

This case seems pretty strange really because I don't think this guy is being accused of rape or sexual assault or anything?
Seems like the main point here is that he was an abusive partner (with the only specific being he stormed out of a restaurant once) and he sent a few dirty texts to someone who was already in a relationship?

I'm not sure exactly how this is justification for blacklisting someone from an entire industry?

I could see it if the guy had beat up his wife and was charged and convicted. Sure.

I kind of feel sorry for young lads today.
Imagine going on a few dates with a colleague and then realizing that she's really into drama and emotional manipulation and control and random outbursts. What are you supposed to do? Dump them? Not if you want to have to dump your entire life too.
Yeah that dude is toast. Poor bastard. Honestly I'm so glad I'm out of the dating pool but if I ever find myself back in it I'll have to be bloody careful. There is hope though - the influx of Polish immigrants into the UK has created a supply of hot women who aren't arseholes. I reckon if I'm ever single again I'll be going Eastern European.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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I am considering the same.
The industry seems to operate like a High School with gossip and bullying and cancelling.
With Twitter and Medium and Facebook being the ways that people try to publicly bitch about each other and try to humiliate each other.

It seems really fucked up.
They set up a situation where you need things like Twitter to get your name out there and build up opportunities in the industry but then Twitter is also there like a public Human Resources platform where you can just accuse a colleague and that's them done.

You have to end up asking why you're giving your money to these people.

If the accusations here are true then it's a private issue.
It's not stuff that should be used to bring an entire industry down on someone to make sure they "never work in this town again".

Then you can look at things like the drama over Ion Fury or Kingdom Come or The Last Night or other indie titles where if there is anything that displeases the mob they will do their best to try and have your game shut down.

Some of these folks just seem SO desperate for the gaming industry to have it's "me too moment" but the stuff they are coming out with is things that just sound like clumsy flirting or bad breakups.

These issues should be getting dealt with behind closed doors.
I don't need to know that some designer/writer sent some dirty texts to one of his friends while he was drunk.
I certainly don't need to know that he did it SEVEN years ago. How the hell am I supposed to contextualize that?
I'm not even sure how a naughty text from seven years ago is any of his current employers business?

How the hell would that go in future job interviews?
"Well, it says here that about 10 years ago you got drunk and texted a female friend saying that you'd like to have sex with her. So we can't offer you the job."
Completely agree. Even if I remove the "why would I give money to people who ty to one-up and humiliate each other?" it does make me wonder if they'll be capable of putting out a videogame that's worth my time.

It's all but forgotten, but remember that indie upstart, that guy who invented a cool piece of kit, overcame all kinds of obstacles, brought it to market and established a brand, sold that brand to one of the biggest tech companies in history, then got fired from his own company:


People face consequences all the time while others get away with it. Publishers need to make hard calls sometimes and let people go.

But it shouldn't be in response to the mob.

Large videogame companies require large teams. Large teams (built with an artificial balance of genders and skincolors) offer an exponential increase in potential conflict.

Y'know the "crabs in a bucket" metaphor? I wonder if large brands / companies will suffer from it, constantly eaten from within by their own large teams, nipped away by constant accusations of sexual harassment, bigotry, and unfair raises. Videogames are expensive and challenging enough to create as it is.

Meanwhile smaller indie devs can keep making their games, keeping their head under the radar.
 

hyperbertha

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Nov 24, 2018
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What a sad story...such a poor individual. How can something so cruel like this still happen in 2020?

Well, I will show my support and buy Dying Light 2 on day 1. Poor Chris.
The dying light team distanced themselves from avellone. Pretty much every dev working with him has cancelled their contract. So if you want to show support don't buy their games.
 
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Saruhashi

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Yeah that dude is toast. Poor bastard. Honestly I'm so glad I'm out of the dating pool but if I ever find myself back in it I'll have to be bloody careful. There is hope though - the influx of Polish immigrants into the UK has created a supply of hot women who aren't arseholes. I reckon if I'm ever single again I'll be going Eastern European.
Same here, out of the dating pool for years and unlikely to even be back in again.
A lot of these conversations do have me thinking about past situations though.
I've dated and had flings and affairs with colleagues long ago and I've been reflecting on how those scenarios came about.

Like stage one is just getting into a position where you can talk to them and get an idea of what's what.
Then you need to have an excuse to get each other numbers.
Then you are messaging back and forth and testing the waters with regards to flirting and a bit more risque humor etc.
Then it's a date and then it's whatever.

With some of these situations now it's like there is a breakdown between flirting and actually dating and that is being used to wreck careers.

It almost always seems to be in retrospect also.
Like not many people are saying "OMG so and so just texted me this obscene message 5 minutes ago".
It's more like these encounters happened many many years ago and over the years the women involved have been convinced that these incidents are horrible and shocking crimes.

Like with the ZQ and Alec Holowka case she claimed to have actually have been assaulted by someone she wouldn't name but she then got into a relationship with Holowka and he was a shit boyfriend so she decided to wait a few years and try to publicly blame him, and ONLY him, for the failure of the relationship.

Like they are sitting there going over their relationship history asking "is there anything here I could use to destroy an ex".

That's a potential danger with the "Me Too" movement. You're encouraging women to share their me too experiences but for some they will need to stretch things a little bit to come up with something. Then you've got those who will gladly throw an ex that they still have a grudge against under the bus. All motivated by a desire to get a bit of attention and drama online for a couple of days.

Sent someone a dirty text seven years ago? No no NO NO! How dare you! Cancel him.
Basically drove a guy to suicide with a sketchy, one-sided, story? Well... you know... Gamergate... mumble mumble... believe women.
 

Meatstick

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Sep 1, 2019
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Fuck all of them - simps, thots, twitter, idiots who prostrate themselves before the mob. It's because of them that we can't have nice things anymore.


Nice, an industry blacklist based off anonymous accusations. Really gotta hope karma comes full circle on these witch hunting hypocrites someday.


 
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hariseldon

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Aug 22, 2018
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One of the replies actually unwittingly provides insight into what's gone on here.


For years she thought these things were ok and now she doesn't. The problem ultimately is that men were acting on the information available at the time, perhaps awkwardly because when you're shy (and game developers are likely to skew autistic) you don't always get it right, perhaps some were still figuring out who they were and what their dating strategy was and were on a wrong fork that they'd eventually walk back, any number of possibilities. Most women would just write it off as a bad date and chalk it up to experience, but these women are now being radicalised, made to hate men and think that any screw up by a man is malevolent.
 

nush

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Oct 16, 2017
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Yeah that dude is toast. Poor bastard. Honestly I'm so glad I'm out of the dating pool but if I ever find myself back in it I'll have to be bloody careful. There is hope though - the influx of Polish immigrants into the UK has created a supply of hot women who aren't arseholes. I reckon if I'm ever single again I'll be going Eastern European.
 
Jun 13, 2019
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Bottom of the barrel.
It's honestly disgusting how quickly the internet hate mob will throw you under the bus without any evidence whatsoever.

Allegations like this just shouldn't be aired on twitter. If it is serious enough, it's a matter for the police.

Also, I'm finding it difficult to see where the harassment occurred here? What did Avellone do exactly to become the latest sacrificial lamb to the baying twitter mob?
 
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