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Christianity [OT] The Word became flesh and dwelt among us

Bolivar687

Banned
In a much more practical way, the argument is based on a cause and effect understanding of the world that's based on the laws of nature which only fell into place as a result of the big bang. But the big bang itself happened before these laws existed and technically that means it might not have required a cause at all.
So we shouldn't ask for a first mover, instead, we should ask how long it takes for an infinitely unlikely event to occur when there is no time.

Something which is not subject to the laws of nature is, by definition, supernatural.

Don't presume everyone is like you. Likewise, don't presume a thread on Christianity is not open for debate on Christianity.

No, I think this thread will do just fine for debating Christianity. Save for mod admonition, I will continue posting if and when I deem fit.

You can read the mod disclaimer at the very top of the very first post for yourself. This is a community thread for Christians to share and support eachother in their faith and not a debate thread for acrimonious viewpoints. You should create a religious debate thread if you want to flood a discussion topic with your own posts. Otherwise, you and P PrellboGark are very much in the wrong thread.
 

Bigrx1

Banned
You can read the mod disclaimer at the very top of the very first post for yourself. This is a community thread for Christians to share and support eachother in their faith and not a debate thread for acrimonious viewpoints. You should create a religious debate thread if you want to flood a discussion topic with your own posts. Otherwise, you and P PrellboGark are very much in the wrong thread.

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P PrellboGark and B B-universe are the same person. Two people don't suddenly pop into a thread like this with the same views, talk the same way and have new accounts created within a day of each other by accident - they do it to hijack threads and back themselves up in arguments/debates.
 

#Phonepunk#

Banned
in honor of tonight, which is traditionally the Last Supper. Da Vinci's masterpiece.
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1. IT'S BIGGER THAN YOU THINK.
Countless reproductions have been made in all sizes, but the original is about 15 feet by 29 feet.

2. THE LAST SUPPER CAPTURES A CLIMACTIC MOMENT.
Everyone knows the painting depicts Jesus's last meal with his apostles before he was captured and crucified. But more specifically, Leonardo da Vinci wanted to capture the instant just after Jesus reveals that one of his friends will betray him, complete with reactions of shock and rage from the apostles. In Leonardo da Vinci's interpretation, the moment also takes place just before the birth of the Eucharist, with Jesus reaching for the bread and a glass of wine that would be the key symbols of this Christian sacrament.

3. YOU WON'T FIND IT IN A MUSEUM.
Although The Last Supper is easily one of the world’s most iconic paintings, its permanent home is a convent in Milan, Italy. And moving it would be tricky, to say the least. Leonardo da Vinci painted the religious work directly (and fittingly) on the dining hall wall of the Convent of Santa Maria delle Grazie back in 1495.

4. ALTHOUGH IT'S PAINTED ON A WALL, IT'S NOT A FRESCO.
Frescos were painted on wet plaster. But Leonardo da Vinci rejected this traditional technique for several reasons. First off, he wanted to achieve a grander luminosity than the fresco method allowed for. But the bigger problem with frescos—as Leonardo da Vinci saw it—was that they demanded the painter rush to finish his work before the plaster dried.

5. LEONARDO DA VINCI USED A BRAND NEW TECHNIQUE ON HIS FUTURE MASTERPIECE.
In order to spend all the time he needed to perfect every detail, da Vinci invented his own technique, using tempera paints on stone. He primed the wall with a material that he hoped would accept the tempera and protect the paint against moisture.

6. VERY FEW OF LEONARDO DA VINCI'S ORIGINAL BRUSHSTROKES REMAIN.
Although the painting itself was beloved, da Vinci's tempera-on-stone experiment was a failure. By the early 16th century, the paint had started to flake and decay, and within 50 years, The Last Supper was a ruin of its former glory. Early restoration attempts only made it worse.

Vibrations from Allied bombings during World War II further contributed to the painting's destruction. Finally, in 1980, a 19-year restoration effort began. The Last Supper was ultimately restored, but it lost much of its original paint along the way.

7. A HAMMER AND NAIL HELPED LEONARDO ACHIEVE THE ONE-POINT PERSPECTIVE.
Part of what makes The Last Supper so striking is the perspective from which it's painted, which seems to invite the viewer to step right into the dramatic scene. To achieve this illusion, Leonardo da Vinci hammered a nail into the wall, then tied string to it to make marks that helped guide his hand in creating the painting's angles.

8. RENOVATIONS ELIMINATED A PORTION OF THE LAST SUPPER.
In 1652, a doorway was added to the wall that holds the painting. Its construction meant that a lower central chunk of the piece—which included Jesus' feet—was lost.

9. THE LAST SUPPER'S JUDAS MAY HAVE BEEN MODELED AFTER A REAL CRIMINAL.
It is said that the look of every apostle was based on a real-life model. When it came time to pick the face for the traitorous Judas (fifth from the left, holding a bag of telltale silver), Leonardo da Vinci searched the jails of Milan for the perfect-looking scoundrel.

10. THERE MAY BE A BIBLICAL EASTER EGG HERE.
To the right of Jesus, Thomas stands in profile, his finger pointing up in the air. Some speculate that this gesture is meant to isolate Thomas's finger, which becomes key in a later Bible story when Jesus rises from the dead. Thomas doubts his eyes, and so is entreated to probe Jesus' wounds with his finger to help him believe.

11. THE MEANING OF ITS FOOD IS UP FOR DEBATE.
The spilled salt before Judas has been said to represent his betrayal, or alternately, is seen as a sign of his bad luck in being the one chosen to betray. The fish served has similarly conflicted readings. If it is meant to be eel, it might represent indoctrination and thereby faith in Jesus. However, if it's herring, then it could symbolize a nonbeliever who denies religion.

12. IT'S INSPIRED SOME WILD THEORIES.
In The Templar Revelation, Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince propose that the figure to the left of Jesus is not John, but Mary Magdalene, and that The Last Supper is key evidence in a cover-up of the true identity of Christ by the Roman Catholic Church.

Musicians have speculated that the true hidden message in The Last Supper is actually an accompanying soundtrack. In 2007, Italian musician Giovanni Maria Pala created 40 seconds of a somber song using notes supposedly encoded within da Vinci's distinctive composition.
Three years later, Vatican researcher Sabrina Sforza Galitzia translated the painting's "mathematical and astrological" signs into a message from Leonardo da Vinci about the end of the world. She claims The Last Supper predicts an apocalyptic flood that will sweep the globe from March 21 to November 1, 4006.

13. THE LAST SUPPER ALSO INSPIRED POPULAR FICTION.
And not just The Da Vinci Code. A pervasive part of the painting's mythology is the story that Leonardo da Vinci searched for ages for the right model for his Judas. Once he found him, he realized it was the same man who had once posed for him as Jesus. Sadly, years of hard-living and sin had ravaged his once-angelic face. As compelling a story as this is, it's also totally false.
How do we know this story isn’t true? For one thing, it's believed that da Vinci took about three years to paint The Last Supper, mostly due to the painter's notorious tendency to procrastinate. For another, stories of spiritual decay manifesting itself physically have long existed. It's likely that someone along the way decided to saddle The Last Supper with a similar narrative in order to give its moral message a sense of historical credibility.

14. IT'S BEEN MIMICKED FOR CENTURIES.
Fine art and pop culture have paid tribute to The Last Supper with a cavalcade of imitations and parodies. These range from a 16th century oil painting reproduction to new interpretations from Salvador Dali, Andy Warhol, Susan Dorothea White, and Vik Muniz, who made his out of chocolate syrup.

Recreations of The Last Supper's distinctive tableau can also be found in the Mel Brooks comedy History of the World, Part 1, Paul Thomas Anderson's stoner-noir Inherent Vice, and Luis Buñuel's Viridiana, which was declared "blasphemous" by the Vatican. It's also been a plot point in The Da Vinci Code and Futurama.

15. WANT TO SEE THE LAST SUPPER IN PERSON? BETTER BOOK (WAY) IN ADVANCE.
Though The Last Supper is one of Italy's must-see sites, the convent in which it is located was not built for big crowds. Only 20 to 25 people are allowed in at a time in visiting blocks of 15 minutes. It is recommended visitors book tickets to see The Last Supper at least two months in advance. And be sure to dress conservatively, or you may be turned away from the convent.
 
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Bolivar687

Banned
For whatever this counts for, B-Universe left me a very sincere message that he honestly mistook this thread as open for debate. I take him at his word and would recommend we refrain from accusations of sock puppet double accounts. Not trying to back-seat moderate here, just doing my part to hopefully contribute to GAF staying on the positive trajectory it's been on ever since the Reset™ .
 

Helscream

Banned
For whatever this counts for, B-Universe left me a very sincere message that he honestly mistook this thread as open for debate. I take him at his word and would recommend we refrain from accusations of sock puppet double accounts. Not trying to back-seat moderate here, just doing my part to hopefully contribute to GAF staying on the positive trajectory it's been on ever since the Reset™ .

Something I think is worth adding to this thread. I think the mistake that Christians at large make is trying to defend their faith outside the faith itself, or better yet what we have in the Bible.

We tend to get caught up with big questions ( If God exist. please explain [Insert Question] ). While I do appreciate of the extensive work of things like the field of apologetics, philosophy, existentialism (so on and so forth). And While I do feel like these things have their value, it is of greater significance to learn what is in the Bible and defend our Faith from that position.

I am going to share some examples myself, and just to clarify this is not to dogpile or trying to get in cheap shots after the slug-fest has taken place. This is to help those of the Christian Faith who participate in this thread.

Example 1
On an individual level, I think the most harmful thing religion(and particularly Christianity) does is the internalization of blame. Dozens of generations of people who where taught to hate themselves and others in the name of a supposedly all-loving god.

Does this fit the Biblical narrative? Does God teach mankind to hate and loathe ourselves? No. It teaches us to hate sin, to hate sin as God hates sin. To hate wickedness, to hate Satan and his Kingdom of Darkness that put Creation into its current state of entropy. These are the only things in which Christians are permitted to hate.

Example 2
As for claims of amicable friendly Christianity, joining hands throught the centuries with non-believers in merriment, history paints a different picture, but I'll set that aside for the moment.

What does the Biblical narrative say? What did Jesus himself say? "If the world hated you, ye know that hated Me before it hated you."
Those of the Christian Faith will always be at enmity with the World, because the World hates our Master.

Satan and his Kingdom at this present time have dominion over this earth due to the fall of Adam and Eve. It is not until the return of Jesus does the dominion of the earth have a new ruler. What did the Apostle Paul say in his letters? "I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints."

The Bible instructs us to be respectful and honorable people of which ever nation or community we inhabit. But our allegiance to Jesus Christ, as well as the laws and instructions on how to live our lifes in the Bible come first. Everything else is secondary. It is when this line is crossed, we are held accountable to maintain our convictions.

Example 3
Bottom line: we don't know how the universe begun. That lack of knowledge shouldn't have us all anxious and accepting the first explanation just because it's comforting or convenient and we want to put an end to the lingering doubt. We don't know and we might never know.

We should accept reality for what reality is. We should go where evidence leads, no matter where it leads to. Even if it leads to uncomfortable places. Even if it leads to existentialism, or the heat death of universe eons from now. Just to be clear, this also applies to atheists. If evidence were ever to surface that the Christian God exists, one would be compelled to accept it. One would have to simply take it. It still wouldn't mean one would have to worship such God, like the great Christopher Hitchens brilliantly reminded us all time and time again.

Once again what is the Biblical narrative? The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. YHVH is the Creator. Plain and simple. This may seem facetious, but it is the truth. The God of the Bible is describe as omnipotent and omniscient. Why would there be a issue in believing of being of infinite power and knowledge could perform such a feat?

B-Universe does a great service by admitting to a interesting truth of our reality. Even if the God of the Bible appeared before people, and that these people would have to admit His existence. That does not mean they would convert to Christianity neither worship Him. Need I recite the story of the Hebrews, that even after all the signs, miracles, and wonders they witnessed. They still insisted on smelting down all their gold and making a golden calf that they might worship it?

If someone wants to claim that God does not exist, or that the Bible is all abunch of bullshit than let them maintain that proclivity. Maybe throw in the coolstorybro.gif for good measure. If people want to discuss or debate about what the Bible says or means about anything and everything then we are held accountable to know our Bible and explain to a unbeliever what its all about.

I will end my statement with a touch of David Berlinski. Don;t think you have to engage yourselves in every frivolous exercise of intellectual contempt. Sometimes it may just end up being a waste of energy.
 
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Helscream

Banned
Great Friday is upon us, my lads. How will you fast today? We had a pea soup yesterday and planned for fish for today.

I have attended several Passover feast with a Jewish friend of mine. You have to pass the gauntlet of Matzah and Bitters Herbs at Passover, but after that there is plenty lamb as well as the fruit of the vine. Everything is very serious, respectful, and dare I say reverent at the start of the feast, but once that has passed Passover is basically code for Jew Party time. (Well atleast in the case of my friends family).
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Was thinking about the significance of the week. All the lessons Jesus left us with are nice. Even his self-sacrifice for our reconciliation is nice. But the resurrection is when Christ defeated the curse on our behalf. Easter season is a time to remember the crucifixion but it is also a reminder of the reality of the promise Jesus made. He was more than just a wise man and/or a selfless man who died to teach us a valuable lesson.

But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. (link)

Great Friday is upon us, my lads. How will you fast today? We had a pea soup yesterday and planned for fish for today.
Pea soup and fish sound delicious. Fasting until Sunday. Then I get to eat my fill of lamb. :messenger_weary::messenger_ok:
 

mcz117chief

Member
No meat, sweets, sex and alkohol since yesterday. 😬
Guess which is the hardest.

As for lunch, we will have fried potatoes, spinach and fried eggs.
This is a traditional Friday food here.
I would guess sweets or sex. On Friday I usually make my own kitchen sink noodle soup (without meat). I just put in everything I find laying around the house, all kinds of vegetables and spices.

Was thinking about the significance of the week. All the lessons Jesus left us with are nice. Even his self-sacrifice for our reconciliation is nice. But the resurrection is when Christ defeated the curse on our behalf. Easter season is a time to remember the crucifixion but it is also a reminder of the reality of the promise Jesus made. He was more than just a wise man and/or a selfless man who died to teach us a valuable lesson.

"And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile." 1 Corinthians 15. The resurrection is indeed by far the most important aspect of the entire Christian faith.
 
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Ornlu

Banned
What is everyone planning to do for Easter? We usually have dinner at my wife's parents; this year we can't really do that for obvious global pandemic related reasons.

I'm floating the idea of us making 1/2 of the dishes for the meal, the parents making the other 1/2, then doing a partial handoffwith each other and eating the same meal separately. Just something to keep a bit of tradition going. Anyone else doing something similar?
 

Ornlu

Banned
I appreciate your impartial assessment.



Yet you can't bring yourself to point them out.



And I encourage you to do the same.



You made an absolute or quasi-absolute statement: all morality is based on religion. One. just one, counter-example alone is what's needed to disprove your claim. I provide 3 historical examples, plus two contemporary examples. 5 examples in total. Your claim has been shown to be false.



It is false that all morality is based on [theistic] religion, as 5 counter-examples show. It's false both historically and contemporarily.



False. Secular humanism is based on a principle - human well-being - that is in no way tied to religion.

Furthermore, Objectivism explicitly states its departure from religious tradition. It really can't get any more explicit. So here we have an example of a moral framework that not only isn't based on religion, it markedly deviates from religion, specifically Christianity.

Your assertion is therefore false.



Because it's true and your assertions are false.



Because your posts often suggest that to me.
The matter, however, is not tremendously important.



You're free to make that argument. For now, that's not the argument I'm making, though.




It's been explained to you, with a multitude of examples that conclusively disprove your assertion. The examples I've listed all fall under atheism, and yet some of them do not hold the Rousseau-ian worldview you're trying to impute on atheism at large. The mistake is the usual pitfall of taking atheism as a monolithic block. I would argue atheism is more pluralistic than Christianity.



I reject the assertion, specifically the implied link between irreligiosity and worldview.



Evidently, that per se, is a moral viewpoint, irrespective of whether you agree with it or not.



Which is exactly what I'm doing. Or did you mean "specifically meant to praise"? Again, if it's not discussion, but rather praise you're after, a public gaming forum might not be the ideal choice. I'm sure forums exist where only Christians can take part in the discussions and praise Christianity on end. NeoGAF, just doesn't seem to be it.

Evidently, if a mod chimes in and declares this a unbeliever-free zone, I'll take my strong opinions on Christianity, its veracity, or lack thereof, its morality, or lack thereof, somewhere else. Until then, I 'll keep finding it peculiar when people on a public forum accuse others of being "triggered" and not so politely invite them to shut up when they post their views. It just boggles the mind. What did you expect? A uncontested sermon from the pulpit?

I haven't attacked anyone in vicious terms. I haven't dragged this to the personal sphere. I haven't insulted you or anyone else. So what exactly do you expect, other than debate, when you start a thread like this on a public gaming forum? What would you have me do different?



Not all religion is the same. Not all denominations within the same religion are the same. I disagree and oppose Christianity the most, true, but I also recognize Christianity is so diverse among its thousands of denominations that one needs to be very precise about at which doctrine or denomination one is aiming criticism. Calvinism has little to do with Universalism, Partial preterists have little in common with proponents of Millennialism. Trinitarians don't agree with Unitarians, who don't agree with proponents of Binitarianism. Christians can't even agree on soteriology, of all doctrines. So, unlike some theists who think atheism is one big block of marble, critics need to be specific when dissecting Christianity.



Be absolutely I'll keep posting here if and when I deem it appropriate.

I ended my last post extending an olive branch to Christians on this thread and explaining why I thought a temporary coalition of sorts was needed. It seems to me you have defaulted to the mood of that now bygone era, when Christianity exercised dominance over the entire West. Those days are long gone. They're not coming back. Christianity is in irreversible decline. For tactical reasons, Christians do need to cooperate with non-Christians, even those who vehemently disagree with practically every single point of mainstream Christian doctrine. Differences need to be set aside, temporarily, for the greater good.

Take care.

I'm not going to continue the tit-for-tat exchange, at the expense of the thread. I wish you the best.

If you have aspects of Christianity that you want to discuss, feel free to post them. A lot of really good people here would be happy to answer any questions you may have.
 

Kamina

Golden Boy
What is everyone planning to do for Easter? We usually have dinner at my wife's parents; this year we can't really do that for obvious global pandemic related reasons.

I'm floating the idea of us making 1/2 of the dishes for the meal, the parents making the other 1/2, then doing a partial handoffwith each other and eating the same meal separately. Just something to keep a bit of tradition going. Anyone else doing something similar?
The wife and I are going to have a traditional austrian Easter Night dinner on Saturday night.
On Sunday well make Pizza from the leftovers. And on monday we’ll fetch some food from the Greek Place.

Osterjause.jpg
 
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Something which is not subject to the laws of nature is, by definition, supernatural.
Meaningless. That's just semantics.


Does this fit the Biblical narrative? Does God teach mankind to hate and loathe ourselves? No. It teaches us to hate sin, to hate sin as God hates sin. To hate wickedness, to hate Satan and his Kingdom of Darkness that put Creation into its current state of entropy. These are the only things in which Christians are permitted to hate.
Biblical narrative and what churches and religious groups made out of it cover a massive array.
Reading the new Testament today you'd get the impression that Jesus was the ultimate SJW and socialist, but that certainly isn't what most people of faith take from him today.
Religion has always been used to back up one's own preconceived notions. It's always been contingent. It's always been cherry-picked and up for massive interpretation.

The concept of "hating the sin instead of the sinner" is also just semantic bullshit. At the end of the day its still people who discriminated against and people who are experiencing hatred and even self-hatred for being the way they are.


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Chaplain

Member
New Resources:

In the Depths
Good Friday shows us, in case there was any doubt before, that something is wrong with the world, something worth mourning deeply. To say that we should not mourn as those without hope is not the same as saying that we should not mourn. There will be a time when God wipes all of these tears from our eyes. We are not there yet but we can surely take heart in the knowledge that God is close to the brokenhearted.
How Good Friday Helps Us Cope with the Pandemic
This moment we are in, in a week when fatalities from COVID-19 are expected to rise dramatically, at what the surgeon general has called “our generation’s Pearl Harbor,” we need to linger longer, even if from our living rooms, at the message of Good Friday.
Will coronavirus hasten the demise of religion – or herald its revival?
In The Everlasting Man, G.K. Chesterton noted how shocking it was that the Age of Enlightenment was followed by an explosion of religiosity in the form of the Oxford Movement and the French Catholic revival. It was, he said, as confounding to most people as ‘a river turning backwards from the sea and trying to climb back into the mountains’. Christian history, Chesterton argued, is not linear but cyclical. The Church seems all but exhausted, then bursts to life again. Chesterton called these historical setbacks the ‘five deaths of the faith’. ‘At least five times,’ he wrote, ‘with the Arian and the Albigensian, with the Humanist sceptic, after Voltaire and after Darwin, the Faith has to all appearance gone to the dogs. In each of these five cases it was the dog that died.’
Could Jesus have survived crucifixion?
Some people deny the resurrection of Jesus, instead claiming that he never died in the first place. Allan Chapman describes, in gory detail, the eight reasons why this is based on a misunderstanding of the crucifixion process
Kavod!:Good Friday & The Weight of Glory
The promise of glory is the promise, almost incredible and only possible by the work of Christ, that some of us, that any of us who really chooses, shall actually survive the examination, shall find approval, shall please God. To please God…to be a real ingredient in the divine happiness…to be loved by God, not merely pitied, but delighted in as an artist delights in his work or a father in a son—it seems impossible, a weight or a burden of glory which our thoughts can hardly sustain. But it is so.
When Christ conquered Caesar
‘Christians’, these deviants were called, after their founder, ‘Christus’, a criminal who had been crucified in Judaea some decades before, under a previous Caesar. Nero, ever fond of a spectacle, had displayed a vengefulness worthy of the Olympian gods. Some of the condemned, dressed in animal skins, had been torn to pieces by dogs. Others, lashed to crosses, had been smeared in pitch and used as torches to illumine the night. Nero, riding in his chariot, had mingled with the gawping crowds. Suetonius would include his persecution of the Christians in the list — a very short one — of the positives of his reign.
Good Friday, coronavirus, and the God who suffers
Bible Society's Paul Williams offers encouragement to those who are feeling overwhelmed, afraid or lonely this Easter
We’re All Children Now
Those who know their need—because their sin separates them from a holy God and death is an enemy too strong for them to escape—can become children of God. Desperation can provoke us to trust Someone else to save us. It can wake us to the eternal danger that awaits anyone who doesn’t acknowledge her need for Jesus to save her. It shows the untold value of being welcomed safely into God’s family. Desperation is a gift.
 

Bolivar687

Banned
Praying everyone has a contemplative and fruitful Good Friday.

B B-universe asked me to relay an apology to everyone here for misinterpreting the purpose of this OT. We might disagree on this important topic but he does seem like a genuinely good dude.

Something I think is worth adding to this thread. I think the mistake that Christians at large make is trying to defend their faith outside the faith itself, or better yet what we have in the Bible.

[...]

I will end my statement with a touch of David Berlinski. Don;t think you have to engage yourselves in every frivolous exercise of intellectual contempt. Sometimes it may just end up being a waste of energy.

I very much agree with this sentiment. I feel like it's such a waste when believers post on communities asking for refutations of atheist arguments. We all have so much work to do studying the scriptures, tradition, devotions, and fostering the life of holiness.

Biblical narrative and what churches and religious groups made out of it cover a massive array.
Reading the new Testament today you'd get the impression that Jesus was the ultimate SJW and socialist, but that certainly isn't what most people of faith take from him today.
Religion has always been used to back up one's own preconceived notions. It's always been contingent. It's always been cherry-picked and up for massive interpretation.

Again, you are indulging in generalization. In the apostolic churches, we profess only that which has been handed down by us by the scriptures, the apostles, the Church Fathers, and sacred tradition. It's only after the reformation that every man can be his own interpreter, and this is unscriptural.

Jesus was not an SJW or a socialist - his teachings were as much a relaxation of the Mosaic law (helping others on the Sabbath) as they went beyond them to be much more restrictive (no divorce, preference for a celibate priesthood).

I'll only implore you one final time, this thread is not here for you to tell us how much you hate Christians and our faith. Please respect that, so we can get this thread back on track on our own without having to solicit moderation.
 

Chaplain

Member
Two Good Friday resources:



“Suppose you’re the devil. You’re the enemy of God and you want to kill him, but you can’t. However, he has this ridiculous weakness of creating and loving human beings, whom you can get at. Aha! Now, you’ve got hostages! So you simply come down into the world, corrupt humankind, and drag some of them to hell. When God sends prophets to enlighten them, you kill the prophets. “Then, God does the most foolish thing of all—he sends his own Son and he plays by the rules of the world. You say to yourself, ‘I can’t believe he’s that stupid! Love has addled his brain! All I have to do is inspire some of my agents—Herod, Pilate, Caiaphas, the Roman soldiers—and get him crucified.’ And that’s what you do. “So, there he hangs on the cross—forsaken by man and seemingly by God, bleeding to death and crying, ‘My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?’ What do you feel now as the devil? You feel triumph and vindication! But, of course, you couldn’t be more wrong. This is his supreme triumph and your supreme defeat. He struck his heel into your mouth and you bit it and that blood destroyed you.” (Philsopher Paul Kreeft)

Audio: Unbelievable? Is the resurrection unbelievable? Jonathan McLatchie vs David Johnson

"Christian apologist Jonathan McLatchie and atheist sceptic David Johnson debate the evidence for the resurrection in an Easter weekend edition of the show." (4/11/20)

Article: The First Good Friday: How Jesus’ Dying Words Changed Everything

"Part of what brought me back from the brink of atheism was reading atheists who had the courage to be honest about the emptiness of their own position. The highly respected Canadian philosopher Kai Nielson confessed: “We have not been able to show that reason requires the moral point of view, or that all really rational persons, unhood-winked by myth or ideology, need not be individual egoists or classical amoralists. Reason doesn’t decide here. The picture I have painted for you is not a pleasant one. Reflection on it depresses me… Pure practical reason, even with a good knowledge of the facts, will not take you to morality.”[iii] Nielson acknowledges that materialistic atheism has no grounds to condemn the suffering of children or people of any age. One of the world’s most famous atheists, Oxford Professor Emeritus Richard Dawkins, agrees that atheism does not have the grounds to deem any suffering as truly wrong or evil. He writes in his River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life: “In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.”[iv] Though both Nielson and Dawkins are unable to condemn suffering as truly evil, Christianity can. According to Christianity, there is an objective standard of reason, justice, and human value. God has infused every human being with his image and intrinsic worth. Accordingly, when people harm other people, they are transgressing something sacred. When innocent blood is shed, God can hear it crying out from the ground–crying out for justice. Sexual assault or setting one’s hound dogs on a child aren’t simply wrong because society says so, or because of human preference. They are wrong because people have inherent value–inherent worth." (4/10/20)

Edit: added text and link
 
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Chaplain

Member
Happy Resurrection Sunday!

“A dead teacher in the grave is no help to anyone. All the gods and prophets of every religion in the world are dead and remain in a tomb. Jesus is risen! Jesus is alive! Jesus is reigning! Jesus is returning!” (Historian Dustin Benge)

Video: Easter 2020 - Come Alive! (Ephesians 2:1-7) (4/12/20)



Video: Easter 2020 - The Only Hope for Sinners (John 20:1-23) (4/12/20)



Video: Andrea Bocelli: Music For Hope - Live From Duomo di Milano (4/12/20)
“On the day in which we celebrate the trust in a life that triumphs, I’m honored and happy to answer ‘Sì’ to the invitation of the City and the Duomo of Milan. I believe in the strength of praying together; I believe in the Christian Easter, a universal symbol of rebirth that everyone – whether they are believers or not – truly needs right now." (Live at 10 AM PST)


What Does an Empty Tomb Have to Do with a Global Crisis?
In fact, in an article entitled, “On the Physical Death of Jesus Christ,” the Journal of the American Medical Society concluded that the evidence suggests that Jesus was dead even before his side was pierced, and that the weapon used probably punctured his ribs, right lung, pericardium, and heart.
The Necessity of a Historical Resurrection: An Interview with Michael Licona
...those of us who are followers of Jesus will be inclined to trust the New Testament accounts, because we view the New Testament as divinely inspired. However, if we are not careful, the integrity of our work as Christian historians may be compromised, since we may be too quick to conclude a particular act or logion of Jesus is authentic and it will be our theological convictions rather than careful historical work that unduly influences our conclusions.
Can a scientist believe in the resurrection? Three hypotheses.
Contrary to increasingly popular opinion, science is not our only means for accessing truth. In the case of Jesus’ resurrection, we must consider the historical evidence, and the historical evidence for the resurrection is as good as for almost any event of ancient history. The extraordinary character of the event, and its significance, provide a unique context, and ancient history is necessarily hard to establish. But a bare presumption that science has shown the resurrection to be impossible is an intellectual cop-out. Science shows no such thing.
See What a Morning! The Victory of the Cross for The Bruised Reed
People try to make the Cross merely a symbol – they deny its purpose and its clarity. They cannot grasp how essential it is – not only to becoming a Christian, but in order to live as a Christian. Sometimes as a Christian I feel battered and bruised. Then I turn to Richards Sibbes The Bruised Reed – an astonishingly deep, profound, deeply biblical and practical book – which is a balm in Gilead – it is medicine for the soul.
Solid Theology for Times of Suffering: A New eBook by John Piper about Coronavirus
This short book is a wonderful example of the kind of theology that all of us need to lean into in the midst of crisis. After introductory chapters that focus upon the sovereignty of God, Piper offers six answers to the question of what God is probably doing in and through the current Coronavirus crisis.
 

Chaplain

Member
"The Covid-19 crises is a reminder of how the world lives in the fear of death and in the grip of uncertainty. We who do not fear death or panic in the face of uncertainty must be prepared to display our certain hope wherever and whenever it is needed." (Theologian Joe Boot, 4/11/13)

 

BigBooper

Member
I've always, since I thought about it, considered the certainty of salvation to be a questionable belief. Not only because of man's hubris and fallibility, but also because of God's judgement and ability to change his mind.
 

Chaplain

Member
New resources

Video: Why Jesus' Resurrection Matters
Jesus of Nazareth died on the cross, was buried in a tomb, rose from the dead, and appeared to more than 500 people. Here's what Jesus' resurrection means to Dr. Gary Habermas, Dr. Mike Licona, Dr. William Lane Craig (Reasonable Faith), Dr. Michael Brown (AskDrBrown), and Dr. David Wood (Acts 17 Apologetics).


What Skeptical Scholars Admit about the Resurrection Appearances of Jesus
The historical evidence is clear: Those who claimed to see him risen must have seen something.
Bart Ehrman’s Latest Attack on Christianity
False teachers influence the church from both inside and outside, but outsiders gain special credibility when they are former insiders (cf. 2 Tim. 4:3–4). In this era of escalating deconversions, #exvangelicals, and the “Dones” (with church), Ehrman is a major instrument in countless readers’ downward spiritual trajectory.
Video: Interview with J.P. Moreland: Scientism and Secularism
In this special interview, Lenny sits down with Dr. J.P. Moreland to discuss his new book Scientism and Secularism: Learning to Respond to a Dangerous Ideology. J.P. explains the difference between science and scientism, how our culture has placed too much trust in the scientific enterprise as the arbiter of knowledge, and why such trust actually makes us less knowledgeable.


Video: Are You Willing to Obey Before You Understand?
In this episode of Gospelbound, Collin Hansen talks with Rachel Gilson about her life and her new book Born Again This Way: Coming Out, Coming to Faith, and What Comes Next.


Video: Four Facts about the Historical Jesus that Scholars Agree On
Jesus’s Resurrection isn’t just a hope, Abdu Murray says, it’s a historical event. Today on #EasterMonday, in day 1 of this week’s #TakeFive series, Abdu takes us through four facts that almost every historical scholar agrees happened to the historical Jesus.


Audio: Where is God in a Coronavirus World?
Oxford professor and Christian apologist John Lennox has a new book on Covid-19 and is presently available to listen to for free in audio form.
 

Chaplain

Member
New Resources:

Theologian "Albert Mohler answers questions during this T4G Pre-Conference live-streamed event, covering a wide range of theological and worldview topics." (4/15/20)



"I re-watched the 4 Jordan Peterson/Sam Harris debates and had some additional observation on what essentially happened there. Now after a couple of years of thinking about these issues here is some of what I see.' (4/15/20)



"What are the best ways to discuss Jesus with your kids? What are some practical strategies to engage young people? Sean will interview author and blogger Natasha Crai and take live questions from viewers." (4/15/20)



Article: Practical Bible Study: Where to Begin

"It is helpful to recognize that a text’s surrounding elements can be grouped into two categories—one of which is unwritten and the other of which is written. The first category refers to historical context, to that non-written dimension of elements like the geography, culture, and specific circumstances of the writer and his immediate audience. The second category refers to literary context, to that textual dimension that includes the immediate and larger context of the writer’s written work and even the antecedent Scripture to which the writer may refer. Both categories of context are important, and the student of Scripture must get a handle on these elements before he endeavors to dig deep into the text itself. How does this look in practice?" (4/14/20)

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Helscream

Banned
I've always, since I thought about it, considered the certainty of salvation to be a questionable belief. Not only because of man's hubris and fallibility, but also because of God's judgement and ability to change his mind.

If God was prone change His mind we would all be in deep shit. Fortunately that is not the case.

The God of the Bible. His Character, His Laws, and His plan of redemeption for all of humanity is the same as it is yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."
Hebrews 13:8

"For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed."
Malachi 3:6

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."
James 1:17

"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"
Numbers 23:19

"The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."
Isaiah 40:8

"Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end."
Psalms 102:25-27

"LAMED (Hebrew Letter). For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. "
Psalms 119:89

The God of the Bible is neither a respecter of persons. Meaning He will not change Himself at the desire or wish, neither for the sake of, or acommendation of others.

"For there is no respect of persons with God."
Romans 2:11

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:"
Acts 10:34

"And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him."
Ephesians 6:9

The God of the Bible is not a fickle Master. He says what He means and means what He says. The God of the Bible is unique compared to other Faiths in that He binds Himself to his Word. Meaning that there are promises in the Bible that He has made and will always keep. Some are unconditional, some are conditional. There are countless examples throughout the Old and New Testament.

God's plan of salvation for mankind is specific, but will never change. It is One Way, One Truth, One Life and that is in the Divine Person of Jesus Christ. There is an inevitable Judgement that all mankind must go through. The God of the Bible is a just God and must hold sinners accountable. HOWEVER, by accepting His plan of salvation, mankind can evade this ultimate Judgement because His Son has already been lifted up to bear that price.

Hopefully this can add some clarity.
 
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BigBooper

Member
If God was prone change His mind we would all be in deep shit. Fortunately that is not the case.

The God of the Bible. His Character, His Laws, and His plan of redemeption for all of humanity is the same as it is yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."
Hebrews 13:8

"For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed."
Malachi 3:6

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."
James 1:17

"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"
Numbers 23:19

"The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."
Isaiah 40:8

"Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end."
Psalms 102:25-27

"LAMED (Hebrew Letter). For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. "
Psalms 119:89

The God of the Bible is neither a respecter of persons. Meaning He will not change Himself at the desire or wish, neither for the sake of, or acommendation of others.

"For there is no respect of persons with God."
Romans 2:11

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:"
Acts 10:34

"And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him."
Ephesians 6:9

The God of the Bible is not a fickle Master. He says what He means and means what He says. The God of the Bible is unique compared to other Faiths in that He binds Himself to his Word. Meaning that there are promises in the Bible that He has made and will always keep. Some are unconditional, some are conditional. There are countless examples throughout the Old and New Testament.

God's plan of salvation for mankind is specific, but will never change. It is One Way, One Truth, One Life and that is in the Divine Person of Jesus Christ. There is an inevitable Judgement that all mankind must go through. The God of the Bible is a just God and must hold sinners accountable. HOWEVER, by accepting His plan of salvation, mankind can evade this ultimate Judgement because His Son has already been lifted up to bear that price.

Hopefully this can add some clarity.
I appreciate that and your thoroughness. I do not believe his plan of salvation has changed, but that there will be many that think they've followed it only to miss the mark. There are examples of that.

But also, there are times when God did change his mind. Sampson was supposed to lose his strength because of cutting his hair, but he called out to God and got his strength back to do one last feat. Exodus 32 shows He changed His mind because of the discussion with Moses. It doesn't seem to happen often, and it's mostly responding to human's requests.


There's also the act of judgement. You cannot judge if there is only one answer. There has to be variability.

Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.

I don't think believing what I'm saying should change anything about how you should live, but it always feels like lying to me when I hear a Christian proclaim they know they're saved and will be going to Heaven. I don't feel they "know."
 

Chaplain

Member
What will it teach me in a nutshell?

Here you go:

"...Revelation provides a virtually complete tour of systematic theology categories. There is much about Christ, mankind and sin, the people of God (both the church and Israel), holy angels, and Satan and the demons. There is important material on God's power, aspects of the work of the Holy Spirit, the nature of Scripture, and the wonder of salvation. The book clearly and eloquently offers the gospel, inviting its readers to enter into grand narrative—(14:6-7; 22:14,17) The believer can learn much theology from Revelation. However, as John warned the church at Ephesus— to understand, believe, and even persevere and defend the doctrinal purity of the faith is not enough (2:2-6). Whatever temptations and alternatives may emerge (2:4-6,14-15,20-24), it is crucial to passionately love the Lord with all our hearts, placing Him first in our lives. Only in this way can we become "overcomers" (2:4-5,7). In the body of the book, the ultimate choice for time and eternity is whether one will worship the beast (the Antichrist figure energized by Satan; see chap. 13) or Christ the Lamb (chap. 14). The strikingly placed command in 18:4 for God's people to "come out" of Babylon implies that both unbelievers and compromised professing Christians are, even if subconsciously, in league with the diabolical spiritual force that has martyred many of God's saints throughout the ages (17:6; 18: 20,24). For either group— unbelievers or sinning church members— the answer is to repent to gain the victory (2:5,7; 9:20-21). The warning from Revelation is thus clear: those who refuse the Lord's offer of salvation will face a climactic judgment and eternal consequences of their choice (20:11-15; 21:7-8)." (New Testament professor A. Boyd Luter Jr.)

If you are interested in learning more about the Book of Revelation, here are links to a verse-by-verse commentary on the entire book:
Blessings
 
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Anyone else celebrating Orthodox Easter today?
The date difference happens because most Orthodox Churches still calculate Easter based on the Julian calendar, even if they switched to Gregorian for everything else. An unintended consequence is that Easter is always after Passover. The two Christian Easter dates won't coincide until 2025.
 

Chaplain

Member
New resources:

Sermon: The Need for a Strong Shelter (Job 1) 4/18/20

"Since it seems that the present pandemic the world is facing will require more time to sort out and more patience on our part, I want to begin a new series called Shelter in Grace. Even the strongest, bravest, and most spiritual among us need God’s sheltering presence in the days ahead. I am praying that as life’s circumstances close in around us, God’s grace will open up for us new ways to grow and new joys to experience. Let’s consider someone in Scripture who discovered the need for a strong shelter in crisis: Job."



Video: Questioning Christianity - Hope in Times of Fear
We've all been shocked by the rapid developments regarding the Coronavirus. As we do our best to navigate these uncertain times together, we invite you to join others for a special talk by Dr. Timothy Keller on how we can find “Hope in Times of Fear.”


Video: Trusting God in Difficult Times - Habakkuk 1 Meditation by Tim Keller
Today we continue this special series of meditations by Tim Keller — "Trusting God in Difficult Times." This series is meant to encourage you to trust God more deeply and to meditate on his word and what it promises, to give you strength and hope in difficult times


Video: William Lane Craig: Refuting atheist Coronavirus memes
Renowned Christian philosopher and apologist William Lane Craig talks to Justin Brierley about Coronavirus how to respond to online atheists during Covid 19.


Video: God, Stephen Hawking and the Multiverse debate - Dave Hutchings, David Wilkinson and Sky Dive Phil
‘God, Stephen Hawking and the Multiverse’ is the name of a new book by physics teacher David Hutchings and Prof David Wilkinson of Durham University. They discuss Hawking, his science, the big bang and what it means for the God question with atheist Phil Halper, who runs the Sky Dive Phil channel on YouTube.


Doubting God in Times of Crisis
If someone like John the Baptist can wrestle with doubts, so can we. But we must take our doubts directly to the one who is able to take them head on, and we must also do so desiring the truth—not necessarily convenience or self-preservation. John needed reminding of the gospel, and so do you and I. A significant portion of the Christian walk consists of a fight to remember Christ’s persistent work in our lives. The beautiful thing is as this truth becomes a lived reality, we can live our lives firmly planted in his promises while being a beacon of light to those without hope.
How to Manage Stress During the Coronavirus Crisis
Distress is a negative form of stress, which is the brain and body’s response to any demand, whether emotional, mental, or physical. Because stress can affect how we feel, think, and behave, our ability to manage stress can have a profound effect on how we deal with the current coronavirus crisis.
7 Things the Coronavirus Hasn’t Changed
Earthquakes are scary and dangerous because they shake what we assumed was strong and stable. Coronavirus has shaken our assumptions, and many of us are struggling to find our feet. We’re off-balance, disoriented, uncertain, lonely, grieving.
How an Ex-Christian And Counter Apologist Came Back To Jesus
One of the smarter and more thoughtful skeptics who was replying to apologists on Twitter was a guy who went by the handle Counter Apologia. He was a former seminary student that sadly lost his faith along the way while preparing for ministry. We had some friendly exchanges, and at times we were a pain in each other’s side! I was just one of a good handful of Christians interacting with him.
Podcast: AFRICA: Our Call is to Obedience
Steve and Debbie Wolcott have served for decades as missionaries in Africa, seeking to share the gospel and strengthen the church in Congo, Central African Republic, Nigeria, Burkina Faso and other nations. The Wolcotts are back this week to finish our conversation about sharing the gospel even when it’s risky. They’ve gone to dangerous places to serve the church; listen as they explain how they think about risk-taking and the values that guide their decisions—decisions that have affected not only Steve and Debbie but their children as well. Perhaps you or people you know are sensing God’s call to serve Him in missions.

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Chaplain

Member
New resources:

Observing God's Care by John MacArthur
With the fear and uncertainty generated by the current COVID-19 pandemic, we consider this series by John MacArthur to be even more timely now than when it was first run eight years ago. The following blog post was originally published on November 8, 2012. —ed.
Where is God in a world left grief-stricken and terrified by coronavirus? Professor John Lennox believes that he has the answer
Professor John Lennox, from Armagh, has had a stellar career, but as a student was told to give up his Christianity to be successful. He tells Laurence White about his own recent brush with mortality and why his faith is unshakeable
The four horsemen of the Covid apocalypse
When the world is facing a deadly plague which is often conveyed in such apocalyptic terms, it seems unnecessary to add yet another article to the plethora of doomsday writings flooding our screens. But now that we are several weeks into the Covid-19 pandemic, perhaps there are some general patterns we can discern and warnings we can heed.
A New Dawn for Apologetics
After nine years working with Christian professors at leading secular universities, I believe we are on the edge of a similar reveal. If we look beyond the secularising West, which prophesies Christianity’s demise, to the global stage, we’ll discover that Christianity is thriving and growing, while the proportion of people without religious affiliation declines.
What Covid-19 has revealed about euthanasia
Amid this crisis, using death as a medical treatment feels more wrong than ever.
Pastor Tim Keller on bearing Gospel witness in polarized society (pt. 2)
“Here’s the trouble: American society has been deeply influenced by Christianity, and that’s something that secular people don’t want to admit,” he said. “So many of our values, like love, human rights, the dignity of the individual, arose from cultures based on the Bible that came out of the Christian West. Yet, secular liberals often don’t want to admit how much of what’s good in our society came from Christianity.”
 
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#Phonepunk#

Banned
How important is Revelations?
What will it teach me in a nutshell?
from what i understand it's one of the more esoteric parts of the Bible. lot of people take it literally but imo that's a mistake. it's a prophecy, a vision. prophecy is an interesting thing because these kind of revelations are a personal experience of God for the prophet, which is not so easily translatable into ordinary human language. but people often take them for literal predictions. fact is the Bible itself discourages fortune telling, divining, etc. so imo using it as a prediction for "the literal end of the world" is a perversion.

as far as orthodox or Catholic readings, i am a bit ignorant on the importance of the work. however if you are studying esoteric/occult/magical readings, then it is very important. Revelations is one of the primary texts used by kabbalists, Tarot readers, etc. often it is paired with the vision of Ezekiel, another prophet. French occultist Eliphas Levi has one such book that compares the two:

 
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