Virex
Banned
Show us your muscles
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Christianity [OT] The Word became flesh and dwelt among us
Bolivar687
Banned
Ah yes, the "Age of Reason"
Lister
Banned
Thankfully yes. Polls are showing even in this country religion is declining.
For the good everyone, imho.
Tesseract
Banned
have you visited clown world recently
Ornlu
Banned
I was going to write something mean and snarky; however that wouldn't be very appropriate for the topic at hand.
Instead, let me ask a question to the atheists
Lister
and
B
Blade2.0
. Why visit the Christianity thread at all? You hold no belief in anything higher than yourselves, correct? If so, what do you gain from participating in discussion? Is there something in particular you would like to discuss?
Instead, let me ask a question to the atheists
Lister
and
B
Blade2.0
. Why visit the Christianity thread at all? You hold no belief in anything higher than yourselves, correct? If so, what do you gain from participating in discussion? Is there something in particular you would like to discuss?
#Phonepunk#
Banned
IMO the most virulent and anti-religious atheists tend to be people from religious backgrounds. this is why it hits so hard when people are teens. it's the reactionary principle at work.
was talking about this w a friend the other day. my parents are both former Catholics, who have strong atheist tendencies. i was raised without the baggage so i've been able to approach things from a different angle. as a teenager i was a militant atheist ("Subgenius") but nowadays i'd consider myself Christian.
was talking about this w a friend the other day. my parents are both former Catholics, who have strong atheist tendencies. i was raised without the baggage so i've been able to approach things from a different angle. as a teenager i was a militant atheist ("Subgenius") but nowadays i'd consider myself Christian.
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lock2k
Banned
This is interesting.
I'm not a believer. Haven't been for a good while and I was raised catholic (but in a very non practicing way).
Even though I'm not a believer, I don't like this kind of edgelord attitude that these atheist folks have. It's very infantile and stupid and I respect religious people and I think people have the freedom to believe and live their lives the way they want to.
Bolivar687
Banned
The decline in religion tracks the decline in social capital. Americans aren't waking up to atheism - in the recent Pew study, that increase is within the margin of error, coming to a single digit number that is lower than we've seen in past surveys. Rather, people no longer want to join or be a part of organizations, communities, or pretty much anything bigger than themselves. We're all each individually retreating from the public square back into our own home entertainment sanctums.
The non-religious celebrate this to their own detriment. That means less non-profits, fewer human services, and a heavier dependence on government bureacracy - by far the slowest, most expensive, and least efficient way to get resources out into the hands of people.
You can look at the social health of our urban cities to see how well that's worked out for us over the last few decades. Across the board, neighborhoods are going to become less safe. It's not a coincidence that the opioid crisis hit suburban America as the decline in faith and community really started to metastasize.
The non-religious celebrate this to their own detriment. That means less non-profits, fewer human services, and a heavier dependence on government bureacracy - by far the slowest, most expensive, and least efficient way to get resources out into the hands of people.
You can look at the social health of our urban cities to see how well that's worked out for us over the last few decades. Across the board, neighborhoods are going to become less safe. It's not a coincidence that the opioid crisis hit suburban America as the decline in faith and community really started to metastasize.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
decline in religion tracks with an increase in depression and suicide and substance abuse and lack of meaning and people saying the world is ending every single day.
people on the whole are despondent, they have a lack of purpose, they are more divisive than ever, more consigned to materialist consumerism, etc. even the meaning they once got through traditional media has been rejected by postmodernism. there are no more heroes/role models any more. as a result millions are aimless and alienated. the only thing that gets a rise is reactionary politics.
it is clear that materialist nihilism has utterly failed in so many, many ways. so it's hilarious to me whenever someone posits the decline of religion is a good thing.
people on the whole are despondent, they have a lack of purpose, they are more divisive than ever, more consigned to materialist consumerism, etc. even the meaning they once got through traditional media has been rejected by postmodernism. there are no more heroes/role models any more. as a result millions are aimless and alienated. the only thing that gets a rise is reactionary politics.
it is clear that materialist nihilism has utterly failed in so many, many ways. so it's hilarious to me whenever someone posits the decline of religion is a good thing.
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Thurible
Member
So you participated in a sacrament without really believing in it? That not only disrespects the sacred, but also winds up cheating yourself. You spent time and effort receiving instruction for no reason. Only those who take it seriously should join.
I remember taking my confirmation very seriously as it is supposed to be, as we believe we receive the Holy Spirit and are properly initiated in the faith. Unfortunately, I did have others in my group who simply didn't care. They were loud and spoke over the cathechists (who generously volunteered their time to help us) and treated it like a joke. If I had the authority I would have kicked them out. Even if you don't believe it, it is incredibly disrespectful to take part of things that we believe are sacred and mock it, it would be best if one didn't take the sacrament if that is how they feel.
Also, what is so "bollocks" about catholicism?
#Phonepunk#
Banned
Catholicism is pretty much the Dark Souls of Christianity. this is the no nonsense rituals and dogma straight from the pope's mouth. there are a lot of stringent rules. but Souls does a lot of things most other, more player friendly games, doesn't. it is very unforgiving. it has a large and byzantine, often obscure, narrative that only reveals itself through repeat playthroughs. so it's not for everyone.
Alan Watts discusses this at length in Behold the Spirit, the modern crisis of the spirit. the book is his attempt at interpreting the Catholic mass and other central rituals through the lens of Zen Buddhism. i'd highly recommend it for anyone who wants to know the mystical meaning behind a lot of central Christian dogma.
in it he discusses the various spiritual meanings of the mystery of transubstantiation as well as other ritual. of course eating the bread and drinking the wine is symbolic of the sacrifice, but this introduces a number of interesting philosophical questions most mainstream preachers rarely touch upon. IMO people are mostly shortchanged by mainstream organized religion, but there is a lot of wisdom if you look (especially Talmud scholars, that stuff is v insightful).
Alan Watts discusses this at length in Behold the Spirit, the modern crisis of the spirit. the book is his attempt at interpreting the Catholic mass and other central rituals through the lens of Zen Buddhism. i'd highly recommend it for anyone who wants to know the mystical meaning behind a lot of central Christian dogma.
in it he discusses the various spiritual meanings of the mystery of transubstantiation as well as other ritual. of course eating the bread and drinking the wine is symbolic of the sacrifice, but this introduces a number of interesting philosophical questions most mainstream preachers rarely touch upon. IMO people are mostly shortchanged by mainstream organized religion, but there is a lot of wisdom if you look (especially Talmud scholars, that stuff is v insightful).
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Lister
Banned
I was going to write something mean and snarky; however that wouldn't be very appropriate for the topic at hand.
Instead, let me ask a question to the atheists
Meh, I can't speak for blade, but I was bored so I took a peak, and then I get to see phrases like "the age of reason" thrown derisively, as though reason was a bad thing. And you just have to say something. I know it's a christian thread, and reason is probably not high in people's priority here, but still, come on.
It's as though some people would rather humanity still be in the middle ages, blaming satan for diseases, and burning heretics at the stake.
It's like something straight out of a Monty Python sketch.
"Reason?? Enlightenment? Science? What has that ever done for us!"
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Tesseract
Banned
you'd be surprised how reasonable some of us are, i spent all of my twenties in math tomes
Thurible
Member
I don't think I have ever heard of someone on this thread say that satan is responsible for disease, we should burn people at the stake, or that reason and science goes against religious faith (except maybe former users like angularsaxophone who was a bit of an extreme fundamentalist and young earth creationist. Most of those opinions are not shared with our lot).
J-Roderton
Member
Going to start reading King James version this week. Wish me luck.
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
As a person who believes in the Abrahamic God and his scriptures, i say "get a life."
Halo is Back
Member
So I want to bring a unique opinion to this thread that I don't ever see may people bring up. I really am curious what Christians think of my opinion here so please feel free to respond to me.
A little background first. I was always raised catholic. My whole family is catholic and I live here in the south were religion is very prevalent. Growing up as a kid I always believed in God and my parents never really forced it on me. Once I started going to college I stared to seek out other peoples opinions and slowly turned into an atheist mostly because of two reasons. Reality did not match up with what the religion and the bible taught me and the fact of suicide and what happens to one that commits it.
For the longest time since high school I suffered from depression with thoughts of taking my own life. It wasn't until college when I started to take psychology courses I finally got the courage to seek out professional help and I am doing better now than I ever have. Treatment has had such a profound effect on me that I have now decided to dedicate my life to suicide prevention and mental health.
Ok so are you ready for my opinion? As someone who deeply cares about people suffering from mental health illness I find it very disgusting and immoral that a "noble" and "just" God would damn someone FOREVER to torture in hell simply because they were mentally sick and can't make rash decisions in their own life. Why dose someone deserve to burn in hell when they were already suffering in their lives? This to me sounds like a very evil act.
A little background first. I was always raised catholic. My whole family is catholic and I live here in the south were religion is very prevalent. Growing up as a kid I always believed in God and my parents never really forced it on me. Once I started going to college I stared to seek out other peoples opinions and slowly turned into an atheist mostly because of two reasons. Reality did not match up with what the religion and the bible taught me and the fact of suicide and what happens to one that commits it.
For the longest time since high school I suffered from depression with thoughts of taking my own life. It wasn't until college when I started to take psychology courses I finally got the courage to seek out professional help and I am doing better now than I ever have. Treatment has had such a profound effect on me that I have now decided to dedicate my life to suicide prevention and mental health.
Ok so are you ready for my opinion? As someone who deeply cares about people suffering from mental health illness I find it very disgusting and immoral that a "noble" and "just" God would damn someone FOREVER to torture in hell simply because they were mentally sick and can't make rash decisions in their own life. Why dose someone deserve to burn in hell when they were already suffering in their lives? This to me sounds like a very evil act.
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Kamina
Golden Boy
My wife‘s aunt just committed suicide some days ago after a long and and terrible illness.
All of us understand her motivation to end it. And while we do not like the way it happened and we miss her dearly, we have faith that it was for the best and that she is in a better place now.
I do not believe that god condemns anyone to hell at all. This picture does not fit the generous and forgiving god i got to know. I believe everything can be forgiven as long as forgiveness is asked for honestly, especially when there was suffering before.
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Halo is Back
Member
I was always taught in church and by other people of faith that suicide was a mortal sin. Sorry for your loss by the way
mcz117chief
Member
If we are talking about suicide then most moral theologians agree that people who are suffering from depression and such aren't fully responsible therefore when such people commit suicide it is not considered a mortal sin. Also, like Jesus said "Indeed, it is easier for a camel to pass through an eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God...But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." Meaning that WE may say that people who commit suicide go to hell (which isn't fire and brimstone with little devils stabbing you with pitchforks) but only God can decide that. Always remember that our understanding of God is limited but what we do knows is that his love is limitless, there is very little reason to send anyone to hell unless that person desires it, for some reason.
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#Phonepunk#
Banned
Ah yes the anti science straw man. It’s funny to see this so prevalent as if all Christians are held to the standard of the most extreme evangelists.
Truth is science and religion have a long mutual relationship. Many scientists (such as the man who hypothesized the Big Bang) were religious men. Many schools began by the church. Many disciplines and systems like music notation, also by the church.
Just as well, we see plenty of witch hunts even in secular society. Look at cancel culture. Do u honestly think the behavior of singling out people for punishment is a thing invented by religion? People do what they do, not because a book tells them.
whenever someone criticizes religion for something, you only need to note if the behavior exists in secular parts of society as well. Almost always this is the case. Sorry, it’s not that easy. You can’t just blame humanity’s problems on one system
BigBooper
Member
I have a question just for curiosity's sake. It seems this thread is mostly Catholic. For context, I was raised Pentecostal, which is basically speaking Protestant with more miracles per capita. What is the view on Christians that don't want to delve deeper why they believe?
I am Christian, but when people ask me why I usually just say because I choose to be or something similar. There was a time when I was younger that I might have thought myself agnostic. Now I just kind of take it as a matter of faith and don't really want to spend any more time on it than that. It's simply not an interesting discussion to me and mostly seems to be used to try to discredit or disprove some religious belief. I think my character, words, and actions would be a better witness than me trying to argue philosophy.
I am Christian, but when people ask me why I usually just say because I choose to be or something similar. There was a time when I was younger that I might have thought myself agnostic. Now I just kind of take it as a matter of faith and don't really want to spend any more time on it than that. It's simply not an interesting discussion to me and mostly seems to be used to try to discredit or disprove some religious belief. I think my character, words, and actions would be a better witness than me trying to argue philosophy.
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mcz117chief
Member
I think it is generally nice to try and understand your relationship with God, it also helps you be more mature when it comes to discussing it with others, especially your kids. But like you said, your actions are vastly more important than arguing philosophy.
Tesseract
Banned
i honestly just read the kings james version and try to live the best life i can that wouldn't disappoint my grandpa (ww2 vet)
first baptist charles stanley and recently andy stanley have been my go to pastor(s) for most of my life
as
mcz117chief
said, actions are louder than words
first baptist charles stanley and recently andy stanley have been my go to pastor(s) for most of my life
as
mcz117chief
said, actions are louder than words
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Weilthain
Banned
I think there may be a creator or creators/deities but I don’t buy organised religion at all.
I have huge respect for religious people from all religions, I believe we are all talking about the same thing when talking about “god” I.e. morality whether it’s an evolutionary result (I don’t believe in evolution but open to it) or the design or a creator to test us etc.
It’s the creation stories I have the most issues with, as well as those who believe word for word the bible as fact.
Many flat earthers are hardcore Christians I know all too well what they believe and why but I don’t agree. Don’t silence me for bringing this up mods, it’s true that huge amounts of Christians are flerfers and you have to deal with that fact.
I have huge respect for religious people from all religions, I believe we are all talking about the same thing when talking about “god” I.e. morality whether it’s an evolutionary result (I don’t believe in evolution but open to it) or the design or a creator to test us etc.
It’s the creation stories I have the most issues with, as well as those who believe word for word the bible as fact.
Many flat earthers are hardcore Christians I know all too well what they believe and why but I don’t agree. Don’t silence me for bringing this up mods, it’s true that huge amounts of Christians are flerfers and you have to deal with that fact.
Ornlu
Banned
To me, the ultimate judge of whether or not you are a "Good Christian" would be if others around you who had briefly met you would know if you are a practicing Christian or not. Truly following the teachings of Jesus will naturally lead a person to become more charitable, more caring, and more understanding toward their fellow human beings. Eventually, it should become natural and automatic.
As far as denominations go, I don't find myself tied to any one in particular. There's some I'm sure I wouldn't be willing to join. I'm currently within the RCA (Reformed Church in America), as the particular church I joined when I moved here belongs to that denomination. I'm more interested in the work a church does in the community, and the attitudes of the members of the congregation than in the dogma of the denomination. I'd like to see a lot of denominations merge, as many of them are basically identical or split over reasons that are no longer relevant, but that's another argument.
Could you elaborate on what you mean in regards Christians that don't want to delve deeper why they believe? If I'm understanding your question correctly, I guess I would say that in any group of people, religious or not you will have a large majority who are only tangentially attached or involved, and then a smaller "core" group that does most of the work or contributes most of the resources sustaining the group.
BigBooper
Member
Sure. That is specifically about me I guess. I don't like to give an answer other than simply because I do for the reasons I mentioned earlier, but at the same time I often feel that answer is not good enough. That I should have a better answer. But if I try to logically come up with an answer I will fail because ultimately it will come down to faith.
I know faith is the answer, but I doubt myself sometimes.
Wings 嫩翼翻せ
so it's not nice
We all do. For me, it's the name of the game.
Ornlu
Banned
Well, there could be any number of reasons for faith. If one was, say, a conservationist, they could look at nature, see the beauty and bounty of creation and think to themselves "I see the hand of God here". For you, depending on who you are, you may have a particular reason to believe.
For me in particular, I had an extremely dark period in my childhood where everything was crumbling around me. I come from a very anti-God/anti-religious family, so when everything in my life was breaking down, I reached out and latched onto the Bible. At the time I figured that I'd probably be dead soon, so I might as well try something new before the end. What I read made a lot of sense to me, so I started trying to change the way I was living. I've found a lot of value in my life since then, and am so, so very glad that I did.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
doubt is part of faith. even some of the prophets doubted in the Bible. if you just "knew" then it wouldn't require faith.
mcz117chief
Member
Doubt is ESSENTIAL! Questioning is ESSENTIAL! You cannot progress if you just sit on your ass your whole life believing the first thing you were told. Always question, always doubt, seek answers, don't be complacent. Ask yourself questions like:
If God exists, why doesn't he help me more?
If God's love is infinite and unconditional, why do we need Jesus' sacrifice?
Why doesn't God take more active role in our history (stopping Stalin/Hitler/Mao etc.)?
Why doesn't God just reveal himself and be done with it?
and many more...
Look at the arguments atheists/agnostics use and work with those, try to answer them, seek and you will find, ask and you will receive. Good luck on your journey everyone and remember, life here is just a fleeting moment in our existence, but that doesn't mean we get to squander it, read the Parable of the Talents. It literally talks about how we are supposed to use what God has given us when "he is away" meaning "when we are here".
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Bolivar687
Banned
The Catechism of the Catholic Church 2282 teaches that "grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide."
WindomURL
Member
You are the man.
J-Roderton
Member
Want to get back into church and go with wife but I’ve been to so many that I just didn’t vibe with throughout the years. Haven’t been in a long time. Any tips, eh?
Also, why not in community forum anymore?
Also, why not in community forum anymore?
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phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
My rule of thumb is to just go to whichever church is physically closest to you.
-Minsc-
Member
I have a hard time calling Christ my savior but I am having faith that reading the Bible is the right thing for me to do. It hasn't been easy for me to read it as I've been quite spotty at doing so. A month ago I dug out my mid-1990's student Bible (NIV) from a closet at my parents. I know I never seriously looked at it beyond flipping through the pages. As a teen I wasn't interested at all. Now I'm following the outlined reading plans and find it easier to get into. Being the NIV is a help, the Ole English King James was a bit of a chore to read at my current understanding.
DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
Picking up your cross daily just sometimes means trying to pick up your Bible daily. Don't fret, and keep trying.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
if you are reading the Old Testament, there are a number of really good commentaries on the work from a Jewish perspective. much of the OT is based on the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh). i highly recommend this book, "Everyman's Talmud", which is a sort of a modern classic, and gives a lot of insight into Judaism as well as deep commentary on much of the OT. for me, this book was a very good way to gain a deeper reading of some of the foundational Christian texts. there are parts of the OT that feel very comic and silly when read literally in common translations, which have meanings that are not well known in the modern era but have a lot of truth and folklore behind them. when introducing a spiritual concept, it tries to give an every day example of it's application, or if it's a philosophical question, parse the reasons behind the symbols and language used in the original Hebrew texts. good stuff.
Everyman's Talmud: The Major Teachings of the Rabbinic Sages: Cohen, Abraham: 9780805210323: Amazon.com: Books
Everyman's Talmud: The Major Teachings of the Rabbinic Sages [Cohen, Abraham] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Everyman's Talmud: The Major Teachings of the Rabbinic Sages
www.amazon.com
-Minsc-
Member
One day at a time, that's how I'm going at it.
Thanks for the suggestion. Hopefully I get around to reading it sometime within the next thirty years.
Thurible
Member
Happy all saint's day people! 
Do you guys have a favorite saint or role model? I really like St. Maximillian Kolbe for what his commitment to the faith and sacrificing his own well being for the jewish prisoners in the concentration camp he was in. I also like St. Joseph, he is a kind of a mysterious figure in the holy family as we don't hear much from him after Christ taught in the temple as a child. He also shows a lot of humility and trust in God's will when he could have easily abandoned Mary or even stoned her! (I'm not sure if I would have been so trusting if I was in his shoes, a virgin birth sounds crazy! He is my confirmation saint for this reason).
Do you guys have a favorite saint or role model? I really like St. Maximillian Kolbe for what his commitment to the faith and sacrificing his own well being for the jewish prisoners in the concentration camp he was in. I also like St. Joseph, he is a kind of a mysterious figure in the holy family as we don't hear much from him after Christ taught in the temple as a child. He also shows a lot of humility and trust in God's will when he could have easily abandoned Mary or even stoned her! (I'm not sure if I would have been so trusting if I was in his shoes, a virgin birth sounds crazy! He is my confirmation saint for this reason).
Bolivar687
Banned
Happy all saint's day people!
St. John Chrysostom. To me, he has the clearest and most profound commentaries on the Gospels, especially on the mystery of the Eucharist. I also recently learned he contributed more to the Ancient Greek corpus more than any other writer. Insane!
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The Brooklyn Brawler
Member
This user has been removed from the thread. Driveby bait trolling.
Any adult who believes in an invisible floating sky wizard needs put on a register somewhere
Tesseract
Banned
what a profound statement, bless your special heart
mcz117chief
Member
Pope Leo the Great was a total badass no-nonsense kind of guy. A real role model for all popes and clergy in general. Other than that I definitely love my confirmation patron saint Paul Miki. I visited his resting place in Nagasaki twice now and whenever I attend mass there I always sit next to his reliquary.Happy all saint's day people!
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
Imagine going to an art museum and hearing someone scream "THIS MUSEUM AND ITS PAINTING WERE NOT PAINTED AND DESIGNED BY SOMEONE! IT WAS ALL RANDOMNESS THAT CREATED IT!"
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
Study the philosophy of the Necessary Existence.
It helped me truly understand the transcendent nature of God.
It helped me truly understand the transcendent nature of God.
Shifty
Member
And when you have proof of that, the scientists will be all ears.
Chaplain
Member
I thought the following recent debates would interest many on GAF.
Does consciousness point to God? Philip Goff & Sharon Dirckx
Sharon Dirckx has a background in neuroscience and is the author of ‘Am I Just My Brain?’. She discusses God, the mind and panpsychism with consciousness researcher Philip Goff, author of ‘Galileo’s Error’. (11/1/19)
Peter J Williams & Bart Ehrman • The story of Jesus: Are the Gospels historically reliable?
Agnostic Bible scholar Bart Ehrman and Christian Bible scholar Peter J Williams debate the reliability of the accounts of Jesus' life, death and resurrection. (10/25/19)
Sir Roger Penrose & William Lane Craig • The Universe: How did it get here & why are we part of it?
Celebrated mathematical physicist Sir Roger Penrose talks to renowned Christian philosopher William Lane Craig about God and the Universe. They discuss Penrose's '3 realms' view of reality and his Conformal Cyclical Cosmology. Could the fundamental nature of reality, the Big Bang and the fine tuning of the Universe point towards a creator God? (10/4/19)
Does consciousness point to God? Philip Goff & Sharon Dirckx
Sharon Dirckx has a background in neuroscience and is the author of ‘Am I Just My Brain?’. She discusses God, the mind and panpsychism with consciousness researcher Philip Goff, author of ‘Galileo’s Error’. (11/1/19)
Peter J Williams & Bart Ehrman • The story of Jesus: Are the Gospels historically reliable?
Agnostic Bible scholar Bart Ehrman and Christian Bible scholar Peter J Williams debate the reliability of the accounts of Jesus' life, death and resurrection. (10/25/19)
Sir Roger Penrose & William Lane Craig • The Universe: How did it get here & why are we part of it?
Celebrated mathematical physicist Sir Roger Penrose talks to renowned Christian philosopher William Lane Craig about God and the Universe. They discuss Penrose's '3 realms' view of reality and his Conformal Cyclical Cosmology. Could the fundamental nature of reality, the Big Bang and the fine tuning of the Universe point towards a creator God? (10/4/19)
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