• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Chrono Trigger DS - Extra Dungeons and Monster battling feature detailed

Llyranor

Member
May 17, 2006
12,169
0
1,355
Okay, okay, I was kidding, geez. I was just pointing out how ridiculous it was to be insulted at the game having an *optional* touch-screen minigame. It's just a port. 2 extra dungeons is an awesome bonus.
 

KeioSquad2

Member
Nov 1, 2007
1,067
0
0
I just hope that at least one of the new extras helps us find out what happend to princess Schala, as haveing Magus unable to complete his journey was a bit frustrating...
 

charlequin

Banned
Oct 19, 2005
26,635
1
1,405
A Link to the Snitch said:
I guess that there's nothing SE can do to improve it - it's not like SE is known for making quality visuals.
What part of this claim is difficult for you, exactly?

In terms of spritework, Chrono Trigger is near the pinnacle for its display resolution. The characters are incredibly expressive and full of personality, and the backgrounds incredibly distinct (and each makes extensive and effective use of the SNES' broad color palette). Most of the improvements done to other games (like, say, FF4 for GBA) don't apply -- you can't improve the character sprites with a bigger color palette, you can't draw new gorgeous backgrounds to replace old and simplistic ones, etc. I suppose you could add more frames of animation to the sprites, although I imagine the effect would be more unsettling than attractive. What it comes down to is that you could make a more attractive sprite game than CT, probably, but you'd be hard pressed to make CT itself more attractive, or better visually executed than it already is, in 2D.

When you move into 3D, everything changes, of course; you can add all this detail, dramatic camera angles, etc. But that has a cost: the DS has fairly limited 3D capabilities which limit just how impressive such a thing can be. This works out really well for a game like FF3, which had quite old NES visuals and could easily be "brought to life" with a 3D re-imagining, but with CT, you're faced with a tougher task -- matching the color depth, the expressiveness, the execution of the original character designs, the detail of the environments, etc. all using only DS-level 3D. There's no reason to believe, based on the fairly well-established characteristics of the system, that this would be beneficial or produce a more attractive game than the original 2D sprite art.
 

Mejilan

Running off of Custom Firmware
Jun 9, 2004
38,484
0
0
41
NJ, USA
KeioSquad2 said:
I just hope that at least one of the new extras helps us find out what happend to princess Schala, as haveing Magus unable to complete his journey was a bit frustrating...
They'd have to retcon Chrono Cross.
Which would be VERY welcome, IMHO.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Aug 6, 2004
12,870
0
1,430
Ughhhhh the new dungeon comments are making me strongly, strongly consider getting this game, and I was very cynically going to ignore this re-release.

Also to chime in Chrono Trigger's 2D graphics are excellent, and the 3D in the DS remakes is trash so I'm happy they're not changing anything.

Now if they ever decided to remake the game for a system that was actually capable of 3D graphics that would be excellent, like maybe the PS3 for example, then I would say it's worth re-evaluating the idea.
 

KTallguy

Member
Jul 20, 2006
11,254
0
0
Osaka, Japan
Tiktaalik said:
Now if they ever decided to remake the game for a system that was actually capable of 3D graphics that would be excellent, like maybe the PS3 for example, then I would say it's worth re-evaluating the idea.
I'd much prefer a brand new game, myself.

But the two new dungeons do sound very interesting.
Should I play this game a 4th time...? I need to finish FF6 advance!!
 

duckroll

Member
Jun 7, 2004
114,734
2
0
38
Mejilan said:
They'd have to retcon Chrono Cross.
Which would be VERY welcome, IMHO.
Actually my first thought when I saw "Dragon Sanctuary" was that they might be making a more direct tie-in with CC. I really hope that's not the case...
 

The Hermit

Member
Jan 13, 2006
12,896
74
1,350
35
duckroll said:
Actually my first thought when I saw "Dragon Sanctuary" was that they might be making a more direct tie-in with CC. I really hope that's not the case...
Me too, they shouldn't try to retcon CC but to ignore it completely and then launch a proper sequel!
 

Hours Left

Member
Jun 28, 2006
33,689
1
0
Ideal Situation: Retcon it so Chrono Cross is only one of multiple outcomes and then release a sequel following a different scenario. That way CC stays semi-relevant to people who want it to be but can be bypassed by people who don't.

Chrono Cross Spoilers
I don't want Lucca & Robo to die. :(
 

Pimpbaa

Member
Jun 8, 2004
17,255
592
1,705
44
Canada
Segata Sanshiro said:
They did this just a year and a half ago with FFVI Advance. Sure, it's on the DS now, but I wouldn't really have wanted CT shoe-horned onto GBA. In fact, I'd have paid $5 more for FFVIa to have been a DS game and keep its music intact.
SNES ports will never have the music intact on the GBA or DS. SNES sony sound chip > GBA and DS' total lack of sound chip and have to do sound mixing with a weak cpu. The lack of fidelity in the music in FFIV for the DS was depressing.
 

Shatai

Banned
Oct 20, 2007
189
0
0
The best way for me to deal with CC is to think of it as its own independent game and to just completely disconnect it with Chrono Trigger. CC was a decent RPG and everything, but when I try to view it as a sequel to CT, I am underwhelmed, even irritated. When I view it as its own thing, "damn, CC's a good game".

You just can't put CC on the shoulders of Trigger, because Trigger is a gigaton gorilla who outright launches Cross into the sun on a whim.
 

justchris

Member
Dec 13, 2006
3,325
0
0
Nashville, TN
Honestly, I'd have bought this if it was a straight port, but those two new dungeons sound interesting. I love that they seem to span multiple eras, I just hope they don't break the story.

And for people suggesting a 3d remake of Chrono Trigger; not on the DS. DS 3d is not that great.
 

Hcoregamer00

The 'H' stands for hentai.
Feb 9, 2007
15,494
0
0
justchris said:
Honestly, I'd have bought this if it was a straight port, but those two new dungeons sound interesting. I love that they seem to span multiple eras, I just hope they don't break the story.

And for people suggesting a 3d remake of Chrono Trigger; not on the DS. DS 3d is not that great.
Don't sugar coat it, DS 3D is HORRIBLE.
 

justchris

Member
Dec 13, 2006
3,325
0
0
Nashville, TN
duckroll said:
Actually my first thought when I saw "Dragon Sanctuary" was that they might be making a more direct tie-in with CC. I really hope that's not the case...
I thought that, too. And it seems like you're helping the Reptites do something from the description, instead of the bastards all dying out like they should have.

Maybe inside they give you a chance to completely obliterate the timeline that produced CC :)
 

B.K.

Member
Jun 8, 2004
25,496
0
1,575
Hcoregamer00 said:
Don't sugar coat it, DS 3D is HORRIBLE.
How is it horrible? Look at Final Fantasy IV. That's better looking than almost everything that was released on the original Playstation.
 

Diablos

Member
Jun 6, 2004
46,428
35
1,675
US
I'm surprised they didn't finish Singing Mountain. Hell, it basically IS finished. Really, all it needed was the placement of some monsters, a boss, and some simplistic event crap. Could've been a nice little sidequest.

Oh well, I wouldn't have played it anyway since I don't have a DS :p

The extras seem nice.

To those complaining... why? CT is mostly untouched for DS, save these extra few things. I for one am glad they just ported it instead of doing a 3D remake like the old school FF's; I think the only proper CT remake would be on a console, really. And even then, the 2D Chrono just has a certain quality to it that would get lost in a remake, regardless of platform.
 

duckroll

Member
Jun 7, 2004
114,734
2
0
38
Both extra dungeons are intentionally vague in description. Don't be surprised if Singing Mountain turns out to be part of either of these extra dungeons.
 

Mejilan

Running off of Custom Firmware
Jun 9, 2004
38,484
0
0
41
NJ, USA
If nothing else, I expect Singing Mountain dungeon assets and music to be recycled. IIRC, the "original" Singing Mountain was never exactly finished any way. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they took what they had and reimplemented it.
 

Nemo

Will Eat Your Children
Sep 10, 2007
18,383
0
0
B.K. said:
How is it horrible? Look at Final Fantasy IV. That's better looking than almost everything that was released on the original Playstation.
You high?
 

MoxManiac

Member
Jun 8, 2004
16,988
1
1,390
B.K. said:
How is it horrible? Look at Final Fantasy IV. That's better looking than almost everything that was released on the original Playstation.
Er, that's not exactly something to be proud of :p
 

Lazy vs Crazy

Member
Apr 29, 2005
8,513
0
1,145
duckroll said:
Actually my first thought when I saw "Dragon Sanctuary" was that they might be making a more direct tie-in with CC. I really hope that's not the case...
Setting up a CC DS port?
 

B.K.

Member
Jun 8, 2004
25,496
0
1,575
MoxManiac said:
Er, that's not exactly something to be proud of :p
Why not? This is a handheld system. It's not like you can expect next-gen quality graphics on it.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Nov 2, 2007
70,821
1
0
Fireblend said:
I think that would need more DS carts than the number of games I already own :lol
Not really. You can get games surprisingly small these days, and CC is only two disks.
 
Nov 10, 2005
32,159
25
0
charlequin said:
What part of this claim is difficult for you, exactly?

In terms of spritework, Chrono Trigger is near the pinnacle for its display resolution. The characters are incredibly expressive and full of personality, and the backgrounds incredibly distinct (and each makes extensive and effective use of the SNES' broad color palette). Most of the improvements done to other games (like, say, FF4 for GBA) don't apply -- you can't improve the character sprites with a bigger color palette, you can't draw new gorgeous backgrounds to replace old and simplistic ones, etc. I suppose you could add more frames of animation to the sprites, although I imagine the effect would be more unsettling than attractive. What it comes down to is that you could make a more attractive sprite game than CT, probably, but you'd be hard pressed to make CT itself more attractive, or better visually executed than it already is, in 2D.

When you move into 3D, everything changes, of course; you can add all this detail, dramatic camera angles, etc. But that has a cost: the DS has fairly limited 3D capabilities which limit just how impressive such a thing can be. This works out really well for a game like FF3, which had quite old NES visuals and could easily be "brought to life" with a 3D re-imagining, but with CT, you're faced with a tougher task -- matching the color depth, the expressiveness, the execution of the original character designs, the detail of the environments, etc. all using only DS-level 3D. There's no reason to believe, based on the fairly well-established characteristics of the system, that this would be beneficial or produce a more attractive game than the original 2D sprite art.
I'm just guessing that you can't read, since you wrote an entire paragraph about 3D, while I wrote roughly zero words about 3D.

Do you pay attention to what people you're overreacting at?
 

ccbfan

Member
Dec 3, 2005
4,052
0
1,190
This is one of those games where the ability to play it on a handheld running as well as it's snes counterpart is enough for me to buy even if its 50 bucks.

Others include Ogre Battle, Tactics Orge, Super Metroid, and SD3.
 

charlequin

Banned
Oct 19, 2005
26,635
1
1,405
A Link to the Snitch said:
I'm just guessing that you can't read, since you wrote an entire paragraph about 3D, while I wrote roughly zero words about 3D.
I was trying to cover the bases. There are a lot of good reasons why "improving" the graphics on Chrono Trigger for the DS would be a stupid thing to ask for, so I figured I'd lay the smackdown on the whole idea.

You seem to be enjoying your petulant act around this, but, like, maybe you could try supporting your position with arguments and evidence instead? Like if you have some specific way in mind that the 2D art is going to get better despite decreasing in total resolution compared to the SNES, already taking advantage of a 32k color palette, etc. then go ahead and share it. But if your whole argument is just "well they should have made it look better" like... with magic...
 

kaizoku

I'm not as deluded as I make myself out to be
Nov 18, 2005
6,137
0
1,200
37
Manchester UK
this sucks, there's far too many good games on the DS. wtf are they doing?

no signs of slowing down either. I'm usually quite picky with my gaming "must-keeps" but with the DS I have like 20 and my "to buy" list is like 30 again. I can't keep up financially or playtime-wise. How am I supposed to play an epic RPG with multiple endings, online component and extra content?

Fuck you Nintendo!

Although if there's one RPG I'd ever want them to release, it would be this. *sigh*
 

Twig

Banned
May 9, 2007
11,446
0
0
MoxManiac said:
CC was an awesome sequel, fuck the haters!
In fact: CC > CT

Also: Wow at people complaining about the game not being a straight port.
B.K. said:
How is it horrible? Look at Final Fantasy IV. That's better looking than almost everything that was released on the original Playstation.
There's absolutely no reason to make a 3D RPG on DS. Ever. It's hideous, ugly shit and anyone who thinks it's a good idea should be shot.

Just because it looks better than PS1 doesn't mean it looks good. PS1 is fucking ugly, too.
 

Twig

Banned
May 9, 2007
11,446
0
0
SabinFigaro said:
If there were ever a CT remake, I honestly believe the only graphic style to do it justice would be one similar to DQ8.
I could get behind that.
 

Mejilan

Running off of Custom Firmware
Jun 9, 2004
38,484
0
0
41
NJ, USA
TheOneGuy said:
In fact: CC > CT

There's absolutely no reason to make a 3D RPG on DS. Ever. It's hideous, ugly shit and anyone who thinks it's a good idea should be shot.

Just because it looks better than PS1 doesn't mean it looks good. PS1 is fucking ugly, too.
*mega_eyerolling.gif*
 

flintstryker

Banned
Jan 11, 2008
8,536
0
0
TheOneGuy said:
In fact: CC > CT

Also: Wow at people complaining about the game not being a straight port.

There's absolutely no reason to make a 3D RPG on DS. Ever. It's hideous, ugly shit and anyone who thinks it's a good idea should be shot.

Just because it looks better than PS1 doesn't mean it looks good. PS1 is fucking ugly, too.
what kind of bs is this?
 

Amakusa

Member
Sep 21, 2004
3,143
21
1,525
40
:D I can't believe this, the only reason I'm picking up a DS is for Chrono Trigger, nice job Nintendo. I hate you even more, but i will pay for the DS
 

PataHikari

Banned
Aug 16, 2007
4,533
3
0
duckroll said:
Actually my first thought when I saw "Dragon Sanctuary" was that they might be making a more direct tie-in with CC. I really hope that's not the case...
I hope this is what happens.
 

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
Jul 26, 2004
28,051
7
0
Long Island, NY
For the bonus content, I would've loved to have gotten to play and walk around in 1999 for a bit... Perhaps a bit of 1999 will turn up in the new dungeons.
 
Nov 10, 2005
32,159
25
0
charlequin said:
I was trying to cover the bases. There are a lot of good reasons why "improving" the graphics on Chrono Trigger for the DS would be a stupid thing to ask for, so I figured I'd lay the smackdown on the whole idea.

You seem to be enjoying your petulant act around this, but, like, maybe you could try supporting your position with arguments and evidence instead? Like if you have some specific way in mind that the 2D art is going to get better despite decreasing in total resolution compared to the SNES, already taking advantage of a 32k color palette, etc. then go ahead and share it. But if your whole argument is just "well they should have made it look better" like... with magic...
And you need something better than "I think that the visuals can't be improved based on my best guess". I'm pretty sure that you, who seems to throw around that statement (which you ever-so-subtly state as fact), should have to provide more than a magic statement that's automatically true.
 

The Hermit

Member
Jan 13, 2006
12,896
74
1,350
35
A Link to the Snitch said:
I don't mean to be yarllying here, but charlequin needs to step back and stop taking offense at anyone for even the slightest implication that it should have had improved visuals.
how?
 

Yaweee

Member
Feb 3, 2008
10,596
0
0
leroy hacker said:
Decreased screen resolution isn't a guess.
There's still the potential for better spell effects or more frames of animation, though I doubt they are adding either.