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Cindy Walker(Xbox): “Having Halo at launch would have been tremendous, but we are not reliant on massive exclusive titles to drive console adoption.''

mckmas8808

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That’s just a facetious Question that doesn’t make sense when we just came from a generation where there was a pro and X there’s already precedent also people aren’t as stupid as most of you like to create this image that casual gamers are so dumb that they can’t decide these things. Someone who doesn’t have a 4K tv doesn’t need a series X. The hardcore gamer that wants the best console experience will. It’s not a difficult issue it’s common sense which a lot of people have contrary to popular belief also entry price matters to the majority of people that buy these consoles who also don’t buy them for exclusives but for madden cod 2k and whatever popular third party game.
You DO need a Series X if you want physical media to work on your console. Be it for games or movies. Why do you guys always seem to so easily forget that?
 

mckmas8808

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KINDA-LONG PSEUDO-CRITIQUE/RANT I GUESS INCOMING!!!


Okay let me just preface this saying that if you are familiar with my posts, certainly from a technological discussion POV and also from a games POV, I've been a very strong proponent for the Series X, as well as the PS5. I've also been someone who has (and continues to be) dismissive of concerns Series S will "hold back" next-gen development (or the "interesting" recent speculation that 10 GB of VRAM will "hold back" gaming development in the future...try and guess why that's an "interesting" point of speculation ;)), more concerned it will have issues with complicating the production pipeline on MS's end more than anything else. And from an isolated POV, I actually do very much like and see the value in what they're doing with Gamepass and xCloud.

With all that said, in light of this recent comment from Cindy Walker, I'm just gonna come out and say it: She might be in for a rude awakening a few months or so from now.

The thing is, I'm still not 100% convinced the casuals and mainstream gamers who would hop on board for something like Series S will actually do so at launch, and the core and hardcore gamers have probably played through a ton of those thousands of games already on previous Xbox (and PlayStation and Nintendo) consoles, so just how much of an incentive will it be for them to jump in at launch to play those games yet again but with some improved visuals and performance?

Because as improved the ML can scale up their looks, they still won't look as good as a proper remake of that game built from the ground-up for newer hardware like with what the Demon's Souls remake is doing. Sure people have played that game a lot, too (well, if you were a PS3 owner, anyway...even then I think Demon's Souls was a lot more niche than Dark Souls), but knowing it's getting all the performance benefits of a new console AND next-gen caliber visuals due to being a full-on remake is what's really going to be the driving hooks for people to jump in.

It's frustrating because I do want MS to compete with Sony in getting the mindshare with the general core/hardcore gamer, not just those already in the Xbox ecosystem, but statements like these don't really show me that's what they want to do anymore, and I think it's a massive mistake. Because I'm still convinced the large majority of purchasers for next-gen these first two years are going to be core/hardcore gamers outside of the Black Friday/Christmas periods, where you have the biggest influx of casuals and mainstreamers buying consoles in any given year.

If that's MS's strategy, to count on big holiday sales with the cheap Series S to give them big yearly totals, then I don't really know how sound that strategy is. Long-term sustained monthly sales would surely be more desirable than massive holiday peak sales accounting for the majority of yearly units, right? I know they want that audience so they can get Gamepass subs, but are cheap Gamepass subs really worth trading out the virtually guaranteed multiple magnitudes of money the core/hardcore would invest into the platform, even if there are less of them than the casual/mainstream gamers? AFAIK, the high attach rates and big peripheral sales are generated from the core/hardcore, and historically speaking that segment dominates the first year or two of console sales. MS's notion might be that the reason for such is because the price is normally too high for the casuals and mainstream to jump in earlier, hence Series S.

But now we really have to ask ourselves, does the Series S actually drive enough of a value prop to pull away would-be Xbox One S owners? I mean, if relying mainly on 3rd-party software, they surely know that 3rd-party will be supporting cross-gen for the next two years without doubt, it's not like XBO and PS4 versions of games like Cyberpunk are cancelled. Maybe the casual/mainstream are TRULY indifferent towards specs so in which case, why would they care if the Series S is more performant than a One S, when the One S is cheaper? MS have already said they're continuing One S production so I think that might actually be a bit of a ding on Series S's case to the casual and mainstream gamers, even some within the Xbox ecosystem.

And ironically, it's in that kind of situation where having system exclusives actually DOES matter, because then you're driving attention of the casuals and mainstream to the only viable option for that particular game, and that ends up benefiting the platform and the game.

So yeah, I'll just say these weren't the best choice of words from Cindy literally the day of their competitor's showcase, when said competitor is going to be pushing a lot of system exclusives (1st and 3rd-party, full and timed) to hook in the core/hardcore gamers and, by doing so, those core/hardcore gamers will drive interest of casuals and mainstream to that platform and ecosystem, which just happens to have a cheaper all-digital version of the traditional disc model coming at the same day (and the only difference between them is literally just a disc drive). I've been very optimistic about the technology in MS's next-gen systems (and still am), particularly the Series X, and while I was also very optimistic about their messaging going from December to May or so, TBH that optimism has diminished gradually with what I'd consider kerfuffles, and for me it really started to waver after the July showcase.

The Hot Chips presentation restored a good bit of it in August (although there were still some details I wished we got that we didn't), but it's hard not to notice that MS are doubling down on xCloud and Gamepass, and are treating Series X as simply an option or means of experiencing those services. Honestly, I preferred MS's messaging when it was just the Series X as the focus: that was clear, concise messaging and, while simple, the simplicity helped a lot. That's not me saying Gamepass, xCloud and Series S are bad products; not even close! Series S is very well-designed for a cheaper next-gen offering, Gamepass offers a lot of value and xCloud offers a lot of flexibility.

However, I don't necessarily think these things should've been done under the Xbox branding if I'm being honest, Gamepass and xCloud in particular. I don't see why MS didn't spin those two into a separate brand and isolated them from the main one. Back in the '90s SEGA started doing PC ports of their console games under the SEGA Soft label; while it's debatable how exactly this worked out for them (at least at the time; nowadays the PC is one of SEGA's strongest platforms by far), one thing I actually thing was the right call (in retrospect) was to have SEGA Soft be its own label and brand separate from the SEGA brand handling the consoles and arcade stuff. The reason why, is because it allowed the two to focus much more on those particular markets, given their mountain of differences.

Consoles and PC might be closer today than back in the '90s, but I still think they have enough differences to where completely treating messaging and branding between the two as one in the same might not be the best choice; there are reasons why FS2020 has prioritized PC for the moment, as one example. And those two (console/PC) have a LOT more similar than consoles and mobile, mobile being the area xCloud is prioritizing (hence why it's not on PC yet). These things should be their own brands IMHO and independent of Xbox, because Xbox is more or less associated as a console gaming brand; it's not exactly easy to change that association after decades, especially when you're trying to manage all of these initiatives under one brand identity (Xbox).

So yeah, that probably about sums up my thoughts on MS atm heading into next-gen: I love the technology, I like the games so far (especially some in particular like FS2020, Bright Memory Infinite, Scorn, Exo-Mecha, The Ascent etc.), and am hopeful of the 1st-party in the future (Avowed, Fable, Forza, etc.), but I'm actually NOT feeling the messaging that much right now. The convergence, I feel, they're doing it too soon, it's too many things with different (and in some cases conflicting) points being pushed simultaneously, causing some friction. And because of that I feel some will start to eat into the others down the line.

If I were MS, I would've kept the Xbox focus on Series X, spun off Series S as a pseudo-desktop product from the Surface division with a subsidy covered on Gamepass & xCloud while being able to run a version of W10, put Gamepass and xCloud under the umbrella of a different brand identity. Sometimes it's better to keep certain product and services branches isolated, that way they can build up with their own focus and, once they have matured to a certain level of sustainability, THAT is when you integrate them together and push them under a same identity or messaging.

So far I've yet to see any advertising focused mainly on the Series X similar to what we've seen from Sony's ads for PS5. Why not? Will they even take this time to announce or show anything of a game like FS2020 on Series X? Or some other visually arresting game that can attest to its power and features set? Simply knowing I can play games via Gamepass on my Series X isn't enough of a sell I feel, especially for the core/hardcore who aren't in the Xbox ecosystem.

While being upfront on their messaging I guess I should also say that, personally, the presentation leaks last week were probably for the best. If they went with the presentation as planned I don't know if it would've garnered the same level of traction. I say all of this not knowing how Sony's presentation today will actually transpire (what games will be shown, will the prices be satisfactory, are there any nasty surprises from their end that could sour messaging leading up to launch etc.), but I think the main point still stands: I personally just haven't been too big a fan of the Gamepass/xCloud messaging (and to a lesser extent, now the messaging with Series S) overshadowing the Series X. It does kind of feel like Series X is a bastard stepchild to MS for the moment which is insane considering its capabilities, but that's what the messaging and recent marketing for Gamepass and xCloud feel like to me.

Again, it wouldn't probably come off this way of those other things were being handled by a different division (with some networking to the Xbox division obviously), that way the Xbox division could just focus on the Series X and throw some bones of value-adds in Gamepass and All-Access being there, too. But I don't think their messaging or marketing should be PRIMARILY focused on those things because, ultimately, general core and hardcore gamers, at the start of a new gen, want new games. They don't even care if it's just a handful of new big games, as long as they're good. And that attraction hits harder when those are platform/ecosystem exclusives.

MS want to take a different direction from Sony and I understand that, that's cool. But they might be trying to pivot too much, too soon. I guess we'll see in the sales and subscription numbers a few months post-launch. Still likely going to pick up a Series X sometime in 2021 (same with PS5 most likely), I just hope by then that MS's messaging puts Series X more on the pedestal it had at The Game Awards during the reveal and the months which followed; it's still their best product out of the bunch they're introducing, and deserves the spotlight commanding of such.
The main problem is, "CONTENT IS KING" will always be a phrase that's correct! Nintendo and Sony both totally understand that phrase. Services are cool, but if the content isn't there then there's a ceiling you're capping on yourself. There's only but so much services and a lower price can get you.
 

diffusionx

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I know saying this on a gaming forum will probably peg me as a troll or fanboy, but honestly, I swear I'm not. I just don't see why anyone would pick up a Series X this year. I don't see any reason to buy it. It's maybe the worst launch I've ever seen of a video game console (ignoring shit like CD-i or Ngage or whatever). I honestly have no clue what the fuck MS is doing with this.

You DO need a Series X if you want physical media to work on your console. Be it for games or movies. Why do you guys always seem to so easily forget that?
It's easy to forget because physical media is on the path to irrelevance. Something like 70% of game sales are digital these days, and how many people are buying physical discs for movies? It's a rounding error.
 

mckmas8808

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It's easy to forget because physical media is on the path to irrelevance. Something like 70% of game sales are digital these days, and how many people are buying physical discs for movies? It's a rounding error.
This isn't true at all! 60+% of all gaming software sales are digital, but that also includes DLC bought by people that purchased the physical disk first. And people do still go to RedBox to rent movies. And people still have DVDs laying around their homes.
 

diffusionx

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This isn't true at all! 60+% of all gaming software sales are digital, but that also includes DLC bought by people that purchased the physical disk first. And people do still go to RedBox to rent movies. And people still have DVDs laying around their homes.
Well, you don't need a $500 console to play DVDs. Here's an article I found:


Interesting thing too, is that Blu-Ray never really caught on at all. And UHD disks are even less relevant. It's just not something the majority of people care about.

Also - I think when you take into account DLC, the number for games is actually more like 90%. And in any case, that number isn't going down. Physical game sales are on the same trajectory as PC games, music, and movies.
 

sublimit

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Take your own advice and wait for the appropriate launch game showcase from MS before passing judgement. It was a good idea that you should apply equally.
I do follow my advice you're the one who selectively reads what you want in order to spin my point.

Like i said before in the 2 major events of both companies Sony was the one who seemed to be more ready for launch. They showed gameplay from 2 of their flagship titles.

MSonly showed Halo and that was a disaster.

Based on that alone people have more reason to have faith on Sony that they will have at least one of their flagship titles ready at launch than what MS had shown which was a game that clearly wasn't ready and trailers that didn't even used in-engine graphics.

But yeah keep burying your head in the sand pretending that both companies stand on the same ground in terms of launch line-up based on what they showed so far.
 
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FunkMiller

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Take your own advice and wait for the appropriate launch game showcase from MS before passing judgement. It was a good idea that you should apply equally.


OR it could be that MS is bring attention to a feature their competitors don't have. You might not like that Xbox can play so many generations of games but not everyone feels the same way you do. In many cases those games look and run significantly better than they did originally. That is pretty darn cool and I am not upset set MS has protected the investment I made with my old games instead of me throwing them away or having to keep old consoles to play them. These features DO NOT prevent me from playing new games either so I don't have a reason to complain.
Ok. Final time: It doesn't matter that it's Xbox. It could be Sony, Nintendo, or any other electronics company of your choosing with a new product to sell. If you can't or won't emphasis the 'newness' of your proposition, you are not selling the product to consumers, who probably already have - or have had in the past - previous products in your line. The job of marketing a new product is to make the customer believe that they must have it. That is done via Unique Selling Proposition. In the case of video games consoles, the USP is always new games you can't play anywhere else.

If it weren't something Xbox was doing, you'd agree with that. Because... as has been stated over and over, and has been born out over and over in past generations: new games sell new consoles.
 

fallingdove

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Dumb thing to say Cindy.

All she had to do was reply with was

“We are hard at work on Halo and excited to let our fans play it when it is ready.”

Instead you have reaffirmed that Xbox is not the place for unique experiences and that there is little reason to own an Xbox over a mid-range PC.

Playing Battletoads last week, while it was fun the 45 minutes I spent on it, I really think that Microsoft is trying to position itself as the company that delivers quantity and value over quality. No doubt that this will be appealing to people that are just looking to kill time but I doubt that early adopters looking forward to next gen are in the market for another console that only plays the “last 4 generations” of 3rd party titles and a handful of decent first party games.
 
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I wanted a Series X earlier in the year so much. But at this point in time before the One launched, I also had Forza, Ryse and Dead Rising pre-ordered. This time there's NOTHING to make me want the Series X. So disappointed in MS. Though it's clear now their focus is GamesPass not console.
 

DarkMage619

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I do follow my advice you're the one who selectively reads what you want in order to spin my point.

Like i said before in the 2 major events of both companies Sony was the one who seemed to be more ready for launch. They showed gameplay from 2 of their flagship titles.

MSonly showed Halo and that was a disaster.

Based on that alone people have more reason to have faith on Sony that they will have at least one of their flagship titles ready at launch than what MS had shown which was a game that clearly wasn't ready and trailers that didn't even used in-engine graphics.

But yeah keep burying your head in the sand pretending that both companies stand on the same ground in terms of launch line-up based on what they showed so far.
I read what you wrote and you have a double standard. One for Sony and one for MS. That's fine we all have biases but I can't take your point seriously when you mis-characterize the July showcase be that 'MSonly showed Halo and that was a disaster.' That statement is false.


The showcase was an hour long and Halo was only 8 minutes of an hour. You might not liked what they showed but there is no need to lie about the showcase. I'm just happy to hear you'll be waiting to see the actual launch showcase from MS before making any final judgement. I agree completely.
Ok. Final time: It doesn't matter that it's Xbox. It could be Sony, Nintendo, or any other electronics company of your choosing with a new product to sell. If you can't or won't emphasis the 'newness' of your proposition, you are not selling the product to consumers, who probably already have - or have had in the past - previous products in your line. The job of marketing a new product is to make the customer believe that they must have it. That is done via Unique Selling Proposition. In the case of video games consoles, the USP is always new games you can't play anywhere else.

If it weren't something Xbox was doing, you'd agree with that. Because... as has been stated over and over, and has been born out over and over in past generations: new games sell new consoles.
There are several games planned for launch of the XSX most are 3rd parties but there are new games. You might not like those games but they exist. The average consumer doesn't know timed exclusive from traditional exclusives anyway. MS is going to have the cheapest entry into next gen and that will certainly get people's attention. Coupling that with 'hundreds of games to play from 4 generations' it isn't like there will be some sort of content drought. This is not a N64 situation. Most importantly as sublimit sublimit stated we should wait for the MS showcase before rendering a final verdict. I think he is completely right.
 
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Crew 511A

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<Sigh> I love Game Pass Ultimate, but it doesn't make a difference if it doesn't have games I want to play. How is it Microsoft manages to not grasp this?
 
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RayHell

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Well I'm all Sony but let me be the devil advocate here.
Their strategy is to subscribe the player Gamepass and this is the driver toward buying the console.
This and also low price and financing.
 

Saaleh

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So you are saying that all there games from there newer first party studios like Hellblade II, Avowed, Fable and Initiative's game are all "gamepass games"(by your definition of what you call "gamepass games"). Well they will appear on Game Pass, thats for sure. But why would that affect quality of the game. Are Gears 5 and Flight Simulator also "game pass games"(using your definition).
Look, If halo's showcase was impressive you would have a point to be optimistic. But since it was lame this is how I see it..

Halo and ALL xbox one games are evidence to what I say. Why would i assume the best for all these new games you mentioned when all we got in the past was average.

Yes, i love gears, I bought gears 5 in pc since i can't have gamepass in my country, but compare halo 3 to halo 2, compare god of war to its previous installments. It is a huge leap in these 2 games. Gears 5 may be the best thing about xbox one but it is just a fan service, not a huge and impressive leap. Its growth is not innovative, its growth is average and only fans like me would over look the small growth of the series. When I imagine a next gen gears I feel excited but they are stuck in the past.. So it's a game pass game. All xbox one games were game pass quality including gears 5.

You really need to read my posts in this thread.
Alright.
 

mckmas8808

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Well, you don't need a $500 console to play DVDs. Here's an article I found:


Interesting thing too, is that Blu-Ray never really caught on at all. And UHD disks are even less relevant. It's just not something the majority of people care about.

Also - I think when you take into account DLC, the number for games is actually more like 90%. And in any case, that number isn't going down. Physical game sales are on the same trajectory as PC games, music, and movies.
Are you comparing the average person, to the average gamer? They have different buying habits. There's a reason physical media (as in games and movies) are still in stores. Even with the decline. Plus, there's a reason Nintendo, Sony, and MS all have physical media that they sell games on.
 

mckmas8808

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Well I'm all Sony but let me be the devil advocate here.
Their strategy is to subscribe the player Gamepass and this is the driver toward buying the console.
This and also low price and financing.
Having games that are exclusive to the new console is the best driver for a new console. It's been this way for 25+ years!
 
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The main problem is, "CONTENT IS KING" will always be a phrase that's correct! Nintendo and Sony both totally understand that phrase. Services are cool, but if the content isn't there then there's a ceiling you're capping on yourself. There's only but so much services and a lower price can get you.
That's a good point. Now, granted, I do think MS have a lot of good (even great) content. They have FS2020, Gears 5, the Forza games, the Ori games etc. All of these are at least on Gamepass, so the content is there for the most part (unless you very specifically want Sony-style single-player, narrative story-driven kinds of 1st-party games or the odd freak breakout indie like Fall Guys (yet; it's coming)).

However, if we're talking in terms of new content on the horizon, that is 1st-party and not in another ecosystem, it's much tougher to say, partly because we've seen so little of it in-game (outside of HI, which had to be delayed). Yes they're porting FS2020 to Series X but it's already on Gamepass and since xCloud is out now if you also have xCloud I'm guessing you could theoretically stream FS2020 (it's actually kind of insane to picture playing that game on a mobile device). The new new content like Everwild and Avowed, they're still a good ways out, so they'll be relying on 3rd-parties for the most part in the meantime.

And if that's the case, then they have to be willing to pay some big prices for some timed exclusives or outright exclusives of major 3rd-party games, even if it means no day-and-date on Gamepass (I don't think day-and-date with xClould would be a big thing for pubs if it meant xCloud gamers could stream the games they've purchased, like the idea Bernkastel Bernkastel mentioned earlier). Just look at the hype Sony's getting with some of these timed exclusive deals and the rumored ones to come; if MS wasn't willing to pay the costs because Spencer's against that, then someone needs to talk to Spencer and tell him he needs to change his mind on that one.

In 2 or so years I think it's a given the 1st-party next-gen content will be ready and perform well with critics and gamers, and at that point it'll be more or less impossible to argue against the value proposition of the brand in terms of game quality or services even for the most staunched detractors. The question is will Sony (and Nintendo to a lesser extent) be "slow" enough on adopting similar services and pricing features to give MS that breathing room to build?

I guess we'll find out in a couple of hours as a start, depending on where the PS5 prices are at and whatever else is hinted at. If they start announcing radical changes to PS Now and PS Plus that could be underway and in effect between now and 2022, and MS doesn't start striking some of these major 3rd-party deals (Gamepass day-and-date not a requirement, but preferred if possible), it's gonna get really ugly for them in terms of adoption. That's just me being honest.

But again, as you said, content is king. Just talking older releases through Gamepass plus BC, MS have the content on that front, but what of the content in terms of new big 3rd-party titles that won't be available in parts (or at all) on PS5? Stuff like Scorn and The Medium are cool, but Medium's already got a PS5 port confirmed and I don't think a game like Scorn is going to divert attention from Miles Morales or GT7 or Demon's Souls Remastered. So MS need some bigger names in that department, I hope they've been hashing out those negotiations behind the scenes.*

* I don't think EA Play necessarily counts; the 10-hour trails for new EA game releases is actually pretty substantial but MS would have to really put that front-and-center in the marketing and that'd work best if they have marketing rights to those games. Plus since it's EA it also asks the question of it the game itself is quality and not riddled with micro-transactions.
 

CrysisFreak

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It's probably all 343's fault. Now MS has to cope with it with these frankly delusional statements.
I guess Seriex is a cool machine either way, but man where is the sauce?
 

D'Ghost

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Consumers will ultimately decide by voting with their wallets if services and marketing > Exclusive Games for a games console. Pretty clear choice this November. For the diehard Xbox hardcore.... remember, you don't need to continue put up with mediocrity and incompetence, much less defend this crap for years on end year after year - you have the power, it's your choice to make - not Phil's.
 
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sublimit

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I read what you wrote and you have a double standard. One for Sony and one for MS. That's fine we all have biases but I can't take your point seriously when you mis-characterize the July showcase be that 'MSonly showed Halo and that was a disaster.' That statement is false.


The showcase was an hour long and Halo was only 8 minutes of an hour. You might not liked what they showed but there is no need to lie about the showcase. I'm just happy to hear you'll be waiting to see the actual launch showcase from MS before making any final judgement. I agree completely.
Lol what big flagship titles MS showed gameplay from that event that made you hopeful that they will be ready at launch?

I'm waiting for your answer.
 
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RayHell

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Having games that are exclusive to the new console is the best driver for a new console. It's been this way for 25+ years!
But Microsoft strategy always been around Gamepass, Phil Spencer told the same thing in his BBC interview.
And that's all before the Halo shenanigan. They never shifted the message.

I like Sony exclusive games and I'm getting a PS5 day one, but I might still end up buying an XSS with Gamepass because it's an incredible value. And if I do, well Microsoft strategy worked on me.
 
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mckmas8808

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That's a good point. Now, granted, I do think MS have a lot of good (even great) content. They have FS2020, Gears 5, the Forza games, the Ori games etc. All of these are at least on Gamepass, so the content is there for the most part (unless you very specifically want Sony-style single-player, narrative story-driven kinds of 1st-party games or the odd freak breakout indie like Fall Guys (yet; it's coming)).

However, if we're talking in terms of new content on the horizon, that is 1st-party and not in another ecosystem, it's much tougher to say, partly because we've seen so little of it in-game (outside of HI, which had to be delayed). Yes they're porting FS2020 to Series X but it's already on Gamepass and since xCloud is out now if you also have xCloud I'm guessing you could theoretically stream FS2020 (it's actually kind of insane to picture playing that game on a mobile device). The new new content like Everwild and Avowed, they're still a good ways out, so they'll be relying on 3rd-parties for the most part in the meantime.

And if that's the case, then they have to be willing to pay some big prices for some timed exclusives or outright exclusives of major 3rd-party games, even if it means no day-and-date on Gamepass (I don't think day-and-date with xClould would be a big thing for pubs if it meant xCloud gamers could stream the games they've purchased, like the idea Bernkastel Bernkastel mentioned earlier). Just look at the hype Sony's getting with some of these timed exclusive deals and the rumored ones to come; if MS wasn't willing to pay the costs because Spencer's against that, then someone needs to talk to Spencer and tell him he needs to change his mind on that one.

In 2 or so years I think it's a given the 1st-party next-gen content will be ready and perform well with critics and gamers, and at that point it'll be more or less impossible to argue against the value proposition of the brand in terms of game quality or services even for the most staunched detractors. The question is will Sony (and Nintendo to a lesser extent) be "slow" enough on adopting similar services and pricing features to give MS that breathing room to build?

I guess we'll find out in a couple of hours as a start, depending on where the PS5 prices are at and whatever else is hinted at. If they start announcing radical changes to PS Now and PS Plus that could be underway and in effect between now and 2022, and MS doesn't start striking some of these major 3rd-party deals (Gamepass day-and-date not a requirement, but preferred if possible), it's gonna get really ugly for them in terms of adoption. That's just me being honest.

But again, as you said, content is king. Just talking older releases through Gamepass plus BC, MS have the content on that front, but what of the content in terms of new big 3rd-party titles that won't be available in parts (or at all) on PS5? Stuff like Scorn and The Medium are cool, but Medium's already got a PS5 port confirmed and I don't think a game like Scorn is going to divert attention from Miles Morales or GT7 or Demon's Souls Remastered. So MS need some bigger names in that department, I hope they've been hashing out those negotiations behind the scenes.*

*
I don't think EA Play necessarily counts; the 10-hour trails for new EA game releases is actually pretty substantial but MS would have to really put that front-and-center in the marketing and that'd work best if they have marketing rights to those games. Plus since it's EA it also asks the question of it the game itself is quality and not riddled with micro-transactions.

Sony already has a similar service. It's PS NOW lol. The "main" thing it doesn't do that Gamepass does is give you great content day and date with the release of the game. And Gamepass has "more" quality games. But PS NOW also is $5 a month, so it's hard to compare it to Gamepass completely. and PS Now also has a streaming component to it. Again, just not as good as XCloud, but it's cheaper too.

Nintendo's 1st party content is so good, that it doesn't even need a service like this to matter.
 

diffusionx

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Are you comparing the average person, to the average gamer? They have different buying habits. There's a reason physical media (as in games and movies) are still in stores. Even with the decline. Plus, there's a reason Nintendo, Sony, and MS all have physical media that they sell games on.
Honestly, both. I think gamers are quite fine with digital distribution, just look at the PC. Of course you'll always have your ultra-nerds who want physical in many instances (not name calling, I'm one of them). If anything I think filthy casuals and normies are more inclined to go to physical disc longer, see the stacks of $4.99 bins of DVDs with movies like Remember the Titans and Casino Royale.
 

Crew 511A

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Sounds about right and lines up with their launch. Loser mentality.
They've been doing this crap for awhile. Instead of taking the Sega approach and going to war with their opponent, they've just taken an apathetic approach to the whole thing.

I'm not saying we need a 90's style console war, but it would be nice if Microsoft made an effort to win players over with good content.
 

DarkMage619

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Lol what big flagship titles MS showed gameplay from that event that made you hopeful that they will be ready at launch?

I'm waiting for your answer.
I don't think a big flagship tittle determines how successful a platform will be over the course of an entire generation. When has a launch title been the best a platform provided? Is that even a good thing? When was the last time a platform launched with 4 generations of games? I'm going to withhold judgement until I see the MS launch title event. Sony got a chance to do their presentation first so should MS.
 
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mckmas8808

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Honestly, both. I think gamers are quite fine with digital distribution, just look at the PC. Of course you'll always have your ultra-nerds who want physical in many instances (not name calling, I'm one of them). If anything I think filthy casuals and normies are more inclined to go to physical disc longer, see the stacks of $4.99 bins of DVDs with movies like Remember the Titans and Casino Royale.
Either way, physical media is here to stay. At least for another 5+ years.
 

BusierDonkey

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They really need to hire better talking heads over at Xbox. Every time one of them speaks the memes make themselves at this point.

This console generation really is a gift that keeps on giving.
 

Crew 511A

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I don't think a big flagship tittle determines how successful a platform will be over the course of an entire generation. When has a launch title been the best a platform provided? Is that even a good thing? When was the last time a platform launched with 4 generations of games? I'm going to withhold judgement until I see the MS launch title event. Sony got a chance to do their presentation first so should MS.
I don't disagree with everything you said, but Microsoft has given me absolutely no reason to buy their new console. That's an issue.
 

brokenwatch

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Late to the thread. Has anyone mentioned that Halo: Master Chief Collection is a steaming pile of garbage? And that everyone involved in releasing it should be fired? I can't recall any other game I bought for $60 where the multiplayer just did not work at all.

I guess the "improvements" to it are banning you from playing if you quit a game that is wildly lopsided (as if I chose to be in a game where my team has zero chances of winning / not being spawn camped). Cool. Stinkles, you might want to look into a different profession if you had anything to do with this game. Maybe managing a McDonald's would be more up to your speed.

I've played every Halo game at launch, but I'll never buy another one 🖕 to everyone at 343.
 
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T-Barbs

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It almost feels like people aren't reading the article, just the headline. Rolla Rolla (deliberately?) forgot the key part of the sentence in the headline, which was: Our players will have thousands of games from four generations of Xbox available to play on launch day.”

In the context it's obvious that she means, that they don't need "massive exclusives" at launch, not that they don't need them at all.
Ok, but is really likely that the same players, already have an Xbox One or Xbox One X to access most of those games. So, what's the point to invest 499 in a powerful new console at launch, if except the backward compatibility, there is basically nothing ready to exploit the hardware at the moment. I mean, why just don't wait?

You should agree their message is not the best to encourage and justify a generational transition.
 

TBiddy

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Ok, but is really likely that the same players, already have an Xbox One or Xbox One X to access most of those games. So, what's the point to invest 499 in a powerful new console at launch, if except the backward compatibility, there is basically nothing ready to exploit the hardware at the moment. I mean, why just don't wait?

You should agree their message is not the best to encourage and justify a generational transition.
If you're sporting an X1X, there's not much incentive to upgrade at launch no. If you're running an XB1, I don't see why not. The increase in picture quality, along with HDR, alone, is worth the upgrade. Add to that the decreased loading times etc.

Personally, I'm not buying neither the XSX or the PS5 in at least a year, since I have an X1X. There's nothing compelling at launch for either console.
 
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T-Barbs

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If you're sporting an X1X, there's not much incentive to upgrade at launch no. If you're running an XB1, I don't see why not. The increase in picture quality, along with HDR, alone, is worth the upgrade. Add to that the decreased loading times etc.

Personally, I'm not buying neither the XSX or the PS5 in at least a year, since I have an X1X. There's nothing compelling at launch for either console.
I understand your point but just to be fair, the increases you are talking about are known and can be appreciated only by a small number of enthusiasts.

Do you think MS should rely on a group of hardcore gamers to be successful and recover from this last generation?
 

TBiddy

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I understand your point but just to be fair, the increases you are talking about are known and can be appreciated only by a small number of enthusiasts.

Do you think MS should rely on a group of hardcore gamers to be successful and recover from this last generation?
It's not enough, for certain, but I assume that's why they are also investing in Game Pass and new studios.
 
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