Co-Director of Dishonored: 'Call of Duty makes gamers stupid'

subversus

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szaromir said:
Some game designers are such tools. Adrian Chmielarz (from People Can Fly, the studio behind Painkiller and Bullestorm): "Halo 3 is objectively a terrible game"

I guess it worked though, it's the first time I heard about Dishonored.
I think game designers are people and are entitled to their opinion as anyone else. They can voice their opinions as well in a manner they find appropriate.
 

teeny

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He also told the magazine that he is not impressed with the Call of Duty series in general.

"I'm not very impressed with Call of Duty."
This made me smile.

Oh well, there are enough elitist gamers around, its not surprising they end up in the industry.
 

mxgt

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Commanche Raisin Toast said:
maybe he means it trains them to hold CoD as the gold standard, and any games that make you think or don't have the instant gratification psychological exploits are poo to them by default.
My opinion on that is anyone who thinks COD is the gold standard is stupid indeed.
 

mr_chun

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scitek said:
Honestly, I kind of agree. If I play a LOT of Call of Duty--like right after one of them comes out , if I marathon the shit out of it for a couple days--then go back to something like Crysis, my reflexes are shot from having had teammates aid me so much, no path to deviate from, etc. I can only imagine what someone who only plays Call of Duty would think about more complex games.
I can see this. Kinda. Maybe. But was that the point he was getting at? Kinda hard to tell with the translation.
 

Herla

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I can see why he'd say that.
Quoting Game Informer:

The encounter – a large room filled with guards – could be tackled from dozens of angles. We asked the developers to show us the short demo encounter repeatedly, and we ended up watching over 30 unique approaches to the battle – some of which skipped the battle altogether.
 

szaromir

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subversus said:
I think game designers are people and are entitled to their opinion as anyone else. They can voice their opinions as well in a manner they find appropriate.
They can, but they could at least make better games than the ones they bash.
 

subversus

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Cow Mengde said:
You know what I did? I went up to him and shoot him. Very effective strategy.
but you can complete levels in COD even without shooting!
 

H3xum

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Why are people being so critical over him? He's exactly right.

People that are tailored or favor a game like CoD aren't going to be the people sitting down and seeing a game like Bioshock for what it really is, rather they see it as a mediocre shooter, their frame of reference being the CoD series.

With games like CoD and Gears people don't have to appreciate a story or other variables, because if it's not the instant gratification of shooting someone, then it's not worth it. Perhaps gamer A.D.D. would have represented his argument better than stupid.
 

BioHazard

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lol at all the replies in here.

Any thread with Call of Duty in title: "LOLWTF WORST GAME EVER, EXACTLY WHATS WRONG WITH GAMING NOWADAYS, TOO MUCH DUDEBRO, FUCKING KOTIK AND ACTIVISION"

This thread with a game developer saying similar things: "WOW WHAT AN ASSHOLE, FUCK HIM..INSULTING COD, WHAT A PRICK"

Never change, GAF.
 

subversus

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szaromir said:
They can, but they could at least make better games than the ones they bash.
I don't see how having an opinion correlates with making something. I think Transformers is shit. Should I make a better movie?

Also Bulletstorm is better than Halo 3, hohoho.
 

TheOddOne

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subversus said:
I think game designers are people and are entitled to their opinion as anyone else. They can voice their opinions as well in a manner they find appropriate.
Ofcouse, but atleast put some thought in the argument. "Call of Duty makes people dumb" is just flamebair, atleast explain why.
 

_Alkaline_

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mxgt said:
My opinion on that is anyone who thinks COD is the gold standard is stupid indeed.
Not even IW would be any illusion that COD games are the be-all and end-all standard for first-person shooters.

However, they excel at what they're good at it - fast, instaneous fun that's easy to grasp but satisfying to master. It's the Mario Kart of FPS games.

Offending those who play and enjoy it is a dumb, naive thing to do. It's not as if COD games are poorly designed. Quite the opposite actually.
 

SneakyStephan

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He has a good point, better wording might be it makes people lazy.

When I look at my brother playing games that is exactly what it does, he shies away from challenge and having to figure things out for himself, because he is used to all the handholding, gold star, auto playing stuff in the games he plays.

You try to let a cod player play some cs 1.5 and they will 100 percent guaranteed whine that the game is shit because they can't hit anything.
They will be too lazy/complacent to learn some self control and manage their recoil or stop before shooting.

Why would they afterall if they can just run and gun with the trigger held down and point their crosshairs in the general direction of an enemy with great success.

People may feel the need to jump on this guy because he mentions his own game (conflict of interest), but it doesn't mean he can't be right.

If he wasn't right, then we'd still have xtreme g/rollcage/fzero, there would have been more cs/ut/tribes style games with the same high learning curve etc and the consoles would actually have a driving sim and difficult platformers (not just indy games that sell 100 k copies and lolgranturismoforza).

Trackmania's success on the other hand (pc only and f2p done right being the cause) is a beacon of hope in a shallow world.
Who here is going to fucking claim that the mainstream gamer wants to spend hours experimenting and learning to get good at the game they are playing...
Even if the pay off is way bigger, they just don't care to (their loss).
 

Enosh

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BioHazard said:
lol at all the replies in here.

Any thread with Call of Duty in title: "LOLWTF WORST GAME EVER, EXACTLY WHATS WRONG WITH GAMING NOWADAYS, TOO MUCH DUDEBRO, FUCKING KOTIK AND ACTIVISION"

This thread with a game developer saying similar things: "WOW WHAT AN ASSHOLE, FUCK HIM..INSULTING COD, WHAT A PRICK"

Never change, GAF.
did you actualy read the thread? it falls quite nice in your first example
 

Stumpokapow

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Kingsora said:
To be honest, that was really a game that let me think in the beginning. On how I could handle that Big Daddy, in which way. Not that much shooters did that before, at least for me.
unfortunately then you get the wrench tonic and you can just run around the game bashing everything over and over again
 

zomgbbqftw

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Probably true. I played Blops at a friend's place and the number of dunderheads on XBL was insane. I don't think there are that many stupid people in the country, it really must be COD that makes them that racist, homophobic and generally stupid. I've played other shooters where you get some idiots, but COD is on another level.
 

subversus

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TheOddOne said:
Ofcouse, but atleast put some thought in the argument. "Call of Duty makes people dumb" is just flamebair, atleast explain why.
He's just blunt, that's all. Why every game designer should sugarcoat anything?
 

Kingsora

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Cow Mengde said:
You know what I did? I went up to him and shoot him. Very effective strategy.
But that wasn't possible in the beginning, because you didn't had real strong weapons.

Then again, after playing 4 hours I quit with Bioshock, it was always the same for me (too many frustrating big daddys), but the beginnig was fun and good IMO.
 

_Alkaline_

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zomgbbqftw said:
Probably true. I played Blops at a friend's place and the number of dunderheads on XBL was insane. I don't think there are that many stupid people in the country, it really must be COD that makes them that racist, homophobic and generally stupid. I've played other shooters where you get some idiots, but COD is on another level.
Most of this can be attributed to the sheer size of the player base. The larger the community, the more assholes there are going to be.
 

szaromir

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subversus said:
I don't see how having an opinion correlates with making something. I think Transformers is shit. Should I make a better movie?

Also Bulletstorm is better than Halo 3, hohoho.
I'm assuming you're not a movie director. And no, Bulletstorm is far inferior.
 

Cow Mengde

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subversus said:
but you can complete levels in COD even without shooting!
You know, that's a very good point. I beat COD4 by sucking at it. I have never in life beaten a game by sucking at it. EVER.

Then you have Bioshock where you're essentially invincible and dying just slows you down. Every time you hit a boss even once, his health will never replenish if you die in the fight. So you just basically pick up right where you left off.

It's a case of Dumb and Dumber.
 

stuminus3

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H3xum said:
Why are people being so critical over him? He's exactly right.

People that are tailored or favor a game like CoD aren't going to be the people sitting down and seeing a game like Bioshock for what it really is, rather they see it as a mediocre shooter, their frame of reference being the CoD series.

With games like CoD and Gears people don't have to appreciate a story or other variables, because if it's not the instant gratification of shooting someone, then it's not worth it. Perhaps gamer A.D.D. would have represented his argument better than stupid.
A more appropriate thing to say might be "lots of stupid people play Call of Duty". You can at least provide some anecdotal evidence to support this. But these stupid people have never heard of Arkane and were never going to play Dishonored anyway. It's completely irrelevant.
 

TheOddOne

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subversus said:
He's just blunt, that's all. Why every game designer should sugarcoat anything?
You can be blunt as hell, David Jaffe is that way but atleast backs it up with a decent argument. Whats next? "Killzone is for noobs", "Halo is for babies", "People that play JRPG's are retarted".
 

Natty1

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Speaking of Dishonored, not sure if this has been posted but there are a couple of new screens and artwork posted. LINK.
 

subversus

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Cow Mengde said:
You know, that's a very good point. I beat COD4 by sucking at it. I have never in life beaten a game by sucking at it. EVER.

Then you have Bioshock where you're essentially invincible and dying just slows you down. Every time you hit a boss even once, his health will never replenish if you die in the fight. So you just basically pick up right where you left off.

It's a case of Dumb and Dumber.
well, this wasn't a problem for me because I played Bioshock with vita-chambers off.
 

Interfectum

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subversus said:
well, this wasn't a problem for me because I played Bioshock with vita-chambers off.
I don't believe you could turn them off when the game first came out could you? I thought that was patched in later.
 

bob_arctor

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SneakyStephan said:
He has a good point, better wording might be it makes people lazy.

When I look at my brother playing games that is exactly what it does, he shies away from challenge and having to figure things out for himself, because he is used to all the handholding, gold star, auto playing stuff in the games he plays.

You try to let a cod player play some cs 1.5 and they will 100 percent guaranteed whine that the game is shit because they can't hit anything.
They will be too lazy/complacent to learn some self control and manage their recoil or stop before shooting.

Why would they afterall if they can just run and gun with the trigger held down and point their crosshairs in the general direction of an enemy with great success.

People may feel the need to jump on this guy because he mentions his own game (conflict of interest), but it doesn't mean he can't be right.

If he wasn't right, then we'd still have xtreme g/rollcage/fzero, there would have been more cs/ut/tribes style games with the same high learning curve etc and the consoles would actually have a driving sim and difficult platformers (not just indy games that sell 100 k copies and lolgranturismoforza).

Trackmania's success on the other hand (pc only and f2p done right being the cause) is a beacon of hope in a shallow world.
This is exactly how I feel on the issue, though I wouldn't single out CoD specifically; most modern gaming includes way too much hand-holding imo.
 

subversus

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szaromir said:
I'm assuming you're not a movie director. And no, Bulletstorm is far inferior.

of course it's not

opinions, dammit!


Interfectum said:
I don't believe you could turn them off when the game first came out could you? I thought that was patched in later.
yes, it was.
 

stuminus3

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Interfectum said:
I don't believe you could turn them off when the game first came out could you? I thought that was patched in later.
That is correct. It was patched in because of the backlash against them.
 

SneakyStephan

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szaromir said:
I'm assuming you're not a movie director. And no, Bulletstorm is far inferior.
Don't mind him, this is the same guy that thinks battlefield 3 would be better as a bad company game.

Dicktits and omgwtfpoints > halo ,clearly.
 

mxgt

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_Alkaline_ said:
It's not as if COD games are poorly designed. Quite the opposite actually.
I'd argue that MW2 was poorly designed. Crazy amount of exploits and bugs after release and some downright terrible design decisions.
commando
 

erragal

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_Alkaline_ said:
Or maybe they're just fun, well-designed games?

Then again, I spose everyone's gotta hate the top dog.
It has nothing to do with sales envy and everything to do with design philosophy. Arkane's games reward experimentation and exploration for the player; heavily scripted games like CoD and Uncharted are the exact opposite in every way. It doesn't matter that they're both the same perspective, they're not built with the same intentions. This is frustrating when you're trying to create a dynamic and emergent game design that could be unsuccessful because people don't want to think about their approach to each encounter.

What makes games like Deus Ex, Ultima Underworld, or Arx Fatalis so incredible is the combination of fluid, fast paced, and responsive gameplay with an incredible wealth of approaches to every situation. A player trained to expect scripted cues at every major moment could play the game and feel bored/under stimulated or get frustrated at having to stop and 'figure out' each situation; when you're not used to fast-paced problem solving the game loses its' fluidity and that breaks the intended game design. Just because there is stealth in this style of game doesn't mean you're meant to plod along slowly. Pacing is a huge part of a great game.
 

Zaptruder

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I'm more intrigued with the comment stating that bioshock and deus ex are 'training' for his game.

Setting the bar pretty high there mister.
 

erragal

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Zaptruder said:
I'm more intrigued with the comment stating that bioshock and deus ex are 'training' for his game.

Setting the bar pretty high there mister.
Arx Fatalis is a superior game to Bioshock.
 

subversus

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SneakyStephan said:
Don't mind him, this is the same guy that thinks battlefield 3 would be better as a bad company game.

are you stupid? I never said that, link to the post please. After I played it I'll never get to Bad Company as it is inferior to BF3 in every way.

but damn, you seem to be really stupid...
 

jgminto

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Zaptruder said:
I'm more intrigued with the comment stating that bioshock and deus ex are 'training' for his game.

Setting the bar pretty high there mister.
Maybe he's talking about
Invisible War
?
 

Lime

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He should be more specific and elaborate on his points instead of throwing it out there for everyone to misinterpret. Is he referring to its plot? Its mechanics? Its storytelling? Etc.
 
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Sotha Sil said:
Well, to his credit, the quote is (probably) a translation of a translation.
Yeah, was this originally said in English? This is exactly the sort of statement where the connotation can be drastically changed in translation.
 

Tallshortman

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H3xum said:
Why are people being so critical over him? He's exactly right.

People that are tailored or favor a game like CoD aren't going to be the people sitting down and seeing a game like Bioshock for what it really is, rather they see it as a mediocre shooter, their frame of reference being the CoD series.

With games like CoD and Gears people don't have to appreciate a story or other variables, because if it's not the instant gratification of shooting someone, then it's not worth it. Perhaps gamer A.D.D. would have represented his argument better than stupid.
What? CoD4 became popular with the hardcore and that trickled down to the "bro" gamers when they gave it a shot after great reviews and word of mouth. IW didn't somehow tailor this to go after purely the FPS only demographic since most of the people who were originally excited about it were CoD PC fans and general enthusiast gamers. It's pretty dumb to assume people who enjoy military shooters somehow can't appreciate different types games and FPS games.
 

BanditKing

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You can't deny that he is correct.

Too many arcadey FPS non realistic military shooters makes the brain numb.