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Co-Director of Dishonored: 'Call of Duty makes gamers stupid'

Lime

Member
Apr 27, 2008
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In terms of semantic content, I agree with Call of Duty being a mindless, primitive experience with a completely shallow reflection on the themes of its subject matter, but that isn't exclusive to the series. I mean, so many other games are pretty inane in dealing with their themes and messages.

But that still doesn't excuse its poor quality, considering its the flagship series in terms of sales and popularity.
 

Fusion Pizza

Member
May 12, 2010
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At least CoD knows what it is and doesn't try to be more than that, and its in the military man shoot genre... its not exactly going to attract the most...refined gamers? Other than generating buzz for his game I don't know what he expects to gain from this other than turning away people who havent even heard of his game.
 

tiff

Banned
Dec 27, 2007
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Herla said:
I can see why he'd say that.
Quoting Game Informer:
The thing is he has a great point here and I wouldn't be surprised if, based on Dishonored's staff, his game will be able back up the talk, but you have to much more tact than this. A lot of people are going to either get defensive or be put off by his remarks, instead of discussing why exactly CoD's gameplay design is so simplistic, brainless, and undemanding.

Stumpokapow said:
unfortunately then you get the wrench tonic and you can just run around the game bashing everything over and over again
To be fair, you can also opt to use weapons primarily, turning the game into a shitty FPS.
 

zomaha

Member
May 16, 2010
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I gotta admit, this has me looking up Dishonored when I hadn't heard of it before. I think he accomplished his goal.
 

kokujin

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May 5, 2011
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The_Monk said:
I didn't get his Bioshock and "training" relations.
Me neither,Bioshock is nothing like Deus Ex, not even close.If he had said System Shock 2, then I'd agree with him.
 

tiff

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Dec 27, 2007
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Interfectum said:
I don't believe you could turn them off when the game first came out could you? I thought that was patched in later.
Correct, but even before they gave you the option you could effectively turn them off yourself by releading when you died.
 

Mechazawa

Member
May 31, 2011
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mclem said:
This.

"We're worried we may have difficulty appealing to players more used to Call of Duty, because our single-player design favours a lot more exploration and investigation than those titles do. Players who aren't put off by that, though, will be richly rewarded and get something which they might regard as a more compelling experience at the end of the day."... would convey roughly the same sentiment in a much more considerate manner.
H3xum said:
People that are tailored or favor a game like CoD aren't going to be the people sitting down and seeing a game like Bioshock for what it really is, rather they see it as a mediocre shooter, their frame of reference being the CoD series.

With games like CoD and Gears people don't have to appreciate a story or other variables, because if it's not the instant gratification of shooting someone, then it's not worth it. Perhaps gamer A.D.D. would have represented his argument better than stupid.
Neither of these interpretations get across the beginning of the quote. "If you first make gamers stupid with Call of Duty..."

Not only does that statement come across as bitter and jealous, it works under the pretense that Call of Duty is somehow grinding down people's tastes. As if a large glut of gamers that previously had tastes for more open games like Deus Ex now actively stay away from them because they've been desensitized by COD or, if there was even any proof to that, that it'd even necessarily be a bad thing. Instead of, you know, Call of Duty being a big ass franchise that some games simply wouldn't be capable of reaching certain parts of that audience.

In short, fuck you and the horse you came in on Raphael Colantonio
and please don't let Dishonored suck cause dat Viktor Antonov art
 

Sohter.Nura

Member
Dec 6, 2008
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I crack up with how the quotes are put...
"
He also told the magazine that he is not impressed with the Call of Duty series in general.

"I'm not very impressed with Call of Duty."
"

He also says that cats with lasers are better than dogs with paddles.

"I like cats with lasers better than dogs with paddles"

Any way, sort of have to agree =P I haven't played a single CoD game this gen :0
 

flyinpiranha

Member
Aug 25, 2009
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All games make you "stupid" if that's the term he wants to use for conditioning. That's all it is. You get used to a style and then you go to a different game and it takes some adjustment.

I'm actually kind of sick of EVERY developer talking about COD at this point. Stop blaming better games for your failures.

I went from MW to Witcher to ME to Uncharted to Puzzle Quest to Forza just fine. It didn't make me "stupid", it was his comments that did that.

Either way, avoiding this game now. He's just trying to get the "I hate COD" crowd and it seems to be working.
 

carbonbased

Member
Jun 10, 2004
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let's put it this way: do the call of duty campaigns require even a modicum of critical thinking?

and don't get me started on the story or themes
 

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
Oct 26, 2009
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Nirolak said:
If nothing else, this seems to be fairly effective marketing.

you know that something is really popular when you can become known by just shitting on it.
 

stuminus3

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Nov 29, 2006
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erragal said:
What makes games like Deus Ex, Ultima Underworld, or Arx Fatalis so incredible is the combination of fluid, fast paced, and responsive gameplay with an incredible wealth of approaches to every situation.
That's great and and I love these games but none of these games ever did Call of Duty numbers. They are incredible, but not particularly successful in the long term, at least not in comparison to Call of Duty. This doesn't mean there isn't a market for them, it just means that a large percentage of people who love Call of Duty (let's call them "stupid people") plain don't give a shit. There's no reason at all to be uppity about it. You were NEVER going to be able to sell your game to them.
 

erragal

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Jul 2, 2009
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flyinpiranha said:
All games make you "stupid" if that's the term he wants to use for conditioning. That's all it is. You get used to a style and then you go to a different game and it takes some adjustment.

I'm actually kind of sick of EVERY developer talking about COD at this point. Stop blaming better games for your failures.

I went from MW to Witcher to ME to Uncharted to Puzzle Quest to Forza just fine. It didn't make me "stupid", it was his comments that did that.
Better? You do mean 'more successful' right?
 

flyinpiranha

Member
Aug 25, 2009
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tiff said:
This game sounds like it could be way better than CoD though.
Sounds, could be, might be, ... either way it's ridiculous to say a certain game is hampering the experience of your game because it "makes people stupid".

I mean, is this game going to require a college degree or some shit? Fuck this pretentious asshole, he just insulted every game that doesn't make me "critical think".


erragal said:
Better? You do mean 'more successful' right?
So we're back to arguing opinions. Circle of GAF.
 

Interfectum

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Nov 14, 2008
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Nirolak said:
This thread is now significantly longer than the Game Informer details thread and the first screenshot thread.

I bet we'll beat the cover reveal thread as well.

If nothing else, this seems to be fairly effective marketing.
Pretty sad numbers there from a forum full of people where a good many of whom claim to want original IP and gameplay deeper than your normal shoot-shoot-bang-bang offering.

At least I did my part. ;0
 

stuminus3

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Mechazawa said:
Not only does that statement come across as bitter and jealous, it works under the pretense that Call of Duty is somehow grinding down people's tastes. As if a large glut of gamers that previously had tastes for more open games like Deus Ex now actively stay away from them because they've been desensitized by COD or, if there was even any proof to that, that it'd even necessarily be a bad thing. Instead of, you know, Call of Duty being a big ass franchise that some games simply wouldn't be capable of reaching certain parts of that audience.
^ this guy gets it. Well said.
 

tiff

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Dec 27, 2007
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flyinpiranha said:
Fuck this pretentious asshole, he just insulted every game that doesn't make me "critical think".
Good. Games that require no real amount of thought from the player (like Call of Duty) are the worst kind of games.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
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tiff said:
Good. Games that require no real amount of thought from the player (like Call of Duty) are the worst kind of games.
DERP. Because everyone wants to come home and ponder the meaning of life while they shoot some people, amirite?
 

szaromir

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Apr 26, 2006
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Interfectum said:
Pretty sad numbers there from a forum full of people where a good majority of whom claim to want original IP and gameplay deeper than your normal shoot-shoot-bang-bang offering.

At least I did my part. ;0
I never read preview articles at least until after I've seen some video footage of the games. I assume many do the same at this point.
 

_Alkaline_

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Sep 25, 2006
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tiff said:
Good. Games that require no real amount of thought from the player (like Call of Duty) are the worst kind of games.
We're talking singleplayer here only, right?

Competitive multiplayer still requires some level of thought and skill from the player if he/she wants to go positive. They'll still get a few kills here and there but it's far from an easy affair.

There's not doubt CoD is one of the easier multiplayer experiences but that in itself is not a bad thing.

Sometimes it seems message board gamers almost feel threatened by the success of the series, as if it casts a poor image of what they consider 'true gaming' or something.
 

flyinpiranha

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tiff said:
Good. Games that require no real amount of thought from the player (like Call of Duty) are the worst kind of games.
That's just a ridiculous statement, probably one of the dumbest statements I've seen on GAF in a while.

Games are for fun and enjoyment. Can they make you think? Sure, some do it well. Do they have to? No.

COD is learning areas and memorizing setups ... gee, just like racing games. Are racing games now the "worst kind of games"?
 

erragal

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Jul 2, 2009
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stuminus3 said:
That's great and and I love these games but none of these games ever did Call of Duty numbers. They are incredible, but not particularly successful in the long term, at least not in comparison to Call of Duty. This doesn't mean there isn't a market for them, it just means that a large percentage of people who love Call of Duty (let's call them "stupid people") plain don't give a shit. There's no reason at all to be uppity about it.
Why isn't there? It's human nature to be frustrated when millions of people love something that is objectively inferior to what you're doing; isn't that why music nerds hate canned studio written pop/rock music and movie nerds hate studio-written focus group oriented blockbusters/oscar crap? It's frustrating to see something less intricate and engaging than your own creation be more popular.

To be fair the majority of people play CoD for its' multiplayer anyway It'd be interesting to see if COD7 or MW4 (Edit: How do their numbering systems even work, WTF?) did a more dynamic approach to the single player campaign whether it would suffer at all; it's certainly not impossible given the class based system that exists in the multiplayer modes.

I will agree that the phrasing could be better. Whether that's translation or frustration, who knows.
 
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tiff said:
Good. Games that require no real amount of thought from the player (like Call of Duty) are the worst kind of games.
I really don't think that's fair at all. There's nothing wrong with professing to love a game for no other reason that thinking that it's fun as opposed to praising that it really makes you think. There's nothing wrong with enjoying Call of Duty. Where I think the problem -- if you concede that it is a problem -- comes in is when Call of Duty and games like it become so dominant in the marketplace that it becomes a de facto representation of video games as a whole. When one defines the hobby as "playing Call of Duty (clones included)," and that's all it appears the market wants or will support, that's where the problem is.
 

Mechazawa

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May 31, 2011
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tiff said:
Good. Games that require no real amount of thought from the player (like Call of Duty) are the worst kind of games.
What a crock of shit. Child of Eden and Rez, two of some of the best games I've ever played, are both extremely easy games that require little in the way of critical thinking and revolve almost entirely around audio-synesthesia.
 

Majanew

Banned
Nov 12, 2010
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tiff said:
Good. Games that require no real amount of thought from the player (like Call of Duty) are the worst kind of games.
Why can't gamers just like a game because it is fun to them?
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Feb 14, 2009
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Quicksilver4648 said:
TL;DR Players of Call of Duty are terrible at games because they don't play Dishonored.
QUICK EVERYONE PLAY DISHON--Oh, wait, it'll probably be terrible. Let's go back to Black Cops, guys.
 

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
Oct 26, 2009
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TheSeks said:
QUICK EVERYONE PLAY DISHON--Oh, wait, it'll probably be the best game ever. Let's go back to Black Cops, guys.
fixed it for you
 

LiK

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lol, I guess some of you can't stand popcorn movies cuz they don't make you ponder about the greater meaning in life. Oh please.
 

Angry Fork

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Jun 12, 2010
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BioHazard said:
lol at all the replies in here.

Any thread with Call of Duty in title: "LOLWTF WORST GAME EVER, EXACTLY WHATS WRONG WITH GAMING NOWADAYS, TOO MUCH DUDEBRO, FUCKING KOTIK AND ACTIVISION"

This thread with a game developer saying similar things: "WOW WHAT AN ASSHOLE, FUCK HIM..INSULTING COD, WHAT A PRICK"

Never change, GAF.
I hate when this shit happens. I just don't understand it. GAF has a problem with other people saying what they're thinking or something. They want to be unique and act like their opinion is new so when another dev says it they get insecure and lash out or something. That's the only rationale I can think of.

Quicksilver4648 said:
TL;DR Players of Call of Duty are terrible at games because they don't play Dishonored.
Not what he was saying, it's more like COD players would be terrible at Dishonored because COD is easy and stupid.
 

erragal

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Jul 2, 2009
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Majanew said:
Why can't gamers just like a game because it is fun to them?
For me, personally, it's important to differentiate between what's fun and what's good. I enjoy almost every loot-based ARPG but almost none of them are actually good games and I'm not ashamed to admit that. They have shallow game design, uneven pacing, awful narratives, and most of them have no clue how to balance content/character abilities...but I love character building; the more complicated the better.

The problem is when people claim that what they love is objectively better than other things just because they love it. Probably the most frustrating thing on this board for me is the lack of conversations strictly dedicated to objective analysis/comparison of games; when you take out personal feelings and get to the nitty-gritty (Actual concepts such as pacing, fluidity, difficulty (Yes games can be too hard), narrative etc.) you start to be able to have real discussions without offending people's sensitivities.

Many games trigger extreme dopamine responses (or lack thereof) in people; it becomes really hard to separate our reactions to these stimuli when seeing people 'attacking' things we have positive responses too. This creates that fanboyism reaction and divisive nature of discussions about 'controversial' games...and the sparseness of median line responses about most things.
 

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
Oct 26, 2009
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LiK said:
lol, I guess some of you can't stand popcorn movies cuz they don't make you ponder about the greater meaning in life. Oh please.
I can't stand popcorn movies because I can't play them!
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Feb 14, 2009
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subversus said:
fixed it for you
Bethesada is publishing it. That's all I need to know that it'll be rushed, buggy, and thus terrible.

I still love you, iD.
Meanwhile.

Piranha said:
ITT: People who hate Peggle.
ITT: People who don't do virtual-cocaine. :( Stupid Peggle. Making me go to rehab.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Feb 4, 2005
43,889
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the most important element of game is fun.

If you enjoy game and you are having fun and feel well entertained.. than that`s all that matters
 

_Alkaline_

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Angry Fork said:
I hate when this shit happens. I just don't understand it. GAF has a problem with other people saying what they're thinking or something. They want to be unique and act like their opinion is new so when another dev says it they get insecure and lash out or something. That's the only rationale I can think of.


Not what he was saying, it's more like COD players would be terrible at Dishonored because COD is easy and stupid.
Face me 1v1. Imma fuck yo shit up noob.
 

Interfectum

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Nov 14, 2008
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LiK said:
lol, I guess some of you can't stand popcorn movies cuz they don't make you ponder about the greater meaning in life. Oh please.
I think the problem is Transformers doesn't really influence the rest of the movie industry like Call of Duty does for video games. I'm not saying CoD shouldn't exist, I love playing it... I'd just like to see more balance in the AAA gaming sector. You really don't see games like Dishonored anymore because it's much easier for both developers and gamers to have a linear, cinematic experience that is all flash and little substance.
 

stuminus3

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Nov 29, 2006
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erragal said:
It's frustrating to see something less intricate and engaging than your own creation be more popular.
Not really. Music nerds and movie nerds are also wasting their time. It's pretty simple, you grow up and move on. The tastes of someone else are irrelevant, regardless of how objectively inferior their particular tastes are. No sense in yelling at something you can't change.
 

Spookie

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Oct 17, 2009
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kokujin said:
Me neither,Bioshock is nothing like Deus Ex, not even close.If he had said System Shock 2, then I'd agree with him.
I think, at least this is my interpretation, he was trying to get at that Both Bioshock & Deus Ex offer some sort of choice and the ability to approach a situation in which you end up getting out of it with the maximum amount of health and the least resources used. Or with the case of Deus Ex getting through and environment without tripping every alarm and failing every sub quest.

If we simply look at that very specific gameplay feature then yeah sure I can see how Black Ops might look like a shooter for a caveman.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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Angry Fork said:
I hate when this shit happens. I just don't understand it. GAF has a problem with other people saying what they're thinking or something. They want to be unique and act like their opinion is new so when another dev says it they get insecure and lash out or something. That's the only rationale I can think of.
There's a lot of assumptions in there to arrive at a really weak conclusion.