Conservative pussies have been OWNED! FUCK the RIGHT WING ESTABLISHMENT!

guggnichso

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Oh my, a meta thread. You would might have thought that I meant this shit seriously, would you. Because a lot of threads on this subforum play out like this nowadays. There’s some inflammatory title, some long ass YouTube video that no one ever has the time to actually watch and a bunch of people commenting on the title.

I think we as a community are fucking better than that. Much better.

I talked to quite some people I politically disagree with on our discord, and they all turned out to be nice people you can actually talk with.

There’s no extreme „libs“ here to „own“ and „trigger“ any more. I get that a lot of people are still upset about what happened here in the past, but this Shit is OVER. They’re gone.

There’s no need to clickbait people into sperging out any more, we ALL can have productive and meaningful discussions. Or just a bunch of funny shitposting, it’s ok! @EviLore is on Board with it, his mods are on Board with it, it’s all good now.

We CAN turn this subforum into an open exchange of ideas, no one has to start shit with his dick and gun out and be so damn aggressive. US media sucks, most of us agree, so we do not have to mimic them with all those idiotic thread titles.

So well, if this rant was now over the line or whatever, I‘m ok with being banned, but well. This forum in general and this subforum in particular has so much potential now that the thought police is gone, I think its time to actually utilize it and not throw that potential away by being as antagonistic as possible.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Happy that more and more people on GAF are coming to understand what @guggnichso has eloquently pointed out. If we're here to talk, then let's talk. If we're here to win fake ideological brownie points, then our conversations will suffer as a result. If you believe something, stand up for it instead of dodging and slinking away. Take your Ls and learn something from the exchange.

I've found that a person is far more willing to argue their beliefs honestly and earnestly when they cross a threshold of trust toward the community at large. Talking about controversial topics isn't a fearful thing when you know you'll be given a fair shake as long as you present your own ideas as best as you can.

So well, if this rant was now over the line or whatever, I‘m ok with being banned, but well. This forum in general and this subforum in particular has so much potential now that the thought police is gone, I think its time to actually utilize it and not throw that potential away by being as antagonistic as possible.
Antagonism is one of the only defenses against pedantry and time-wasting, though, in lieu of the thought police keeping everything under control.

If you cannot mock stupid ideas out of the room, then the ideas will remain and multiply. There's only so many posters per page, only so many threads one can read in a day. Unfettered stupidity (with no check-valve to mock it away) has been the death of far more internet communities than unfettered moderation.

However, antagonism in the form of nitpicking others and derailing threads for the sake of avoiding the topic shouldn't be tolerated by the community.

Feeding the drive-by trolls only encourages more trolls to show up. Ignoring them will always result in them giving up or making such a fool of themselves (because they're not getting the attention they desire) that they get banned.
 

Solaris

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A very noble idea. But then you have to get rid of the pussies such as AfricanKing, no one something somethings particular, JarBear etc. They are usually the ones stirring shit in this section.

But then again. Why is there a politics thread on a gaming forum in the first place. I play games and discuss games to get away from real world shit.
 
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guggnichso

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Happy that more and more people on GAF are coming to understand what @guggnichso has eloquently pointed out. If we're here to talk, then let's talk. If we're here to win fake ideological brownie points, then our conversations will suffer as a result. If you believe something, stand up for it instead of dodging and slinking away. Take your Ls and learn something from the exchange.

I've found that a person is far more willing to argue their beliefs honestly and earnestly when they cross a threshold of trust toward the community at large. Talking about controversial topics isn't a fearful thing when you know you'll be given a fair shake as long as you present your own ideas as best as you can.


Antagonism is one of the only defenses against pedantry and time-wasting, though, in lieu of the thought police keeping everything under control.

If you cannot mock stupid ideas out of the room, then the ideas will remain and multiply. There's only so many posters per page, only so many threads one can read in a day. Unfettered stupidity (with no check-valve to mock it away) has been the death of far more internet communities than unfettered moderation.

However, antagonism in the form of nitpicking others and derailing threads for the sake of avoiding the topic shouldn't be tolerated by the community.

Feeding the drive-by trolls only encourages more trolls to show up. Ignoring them will always result in them giving up or making such a fool of themselves (because they're not getting the attention they desire) that they get banned.
Yeah, that was badly worded, of course antagonism is a valuable contribution. I would be stupid to say otherwise, the whole OP is antagonistic as fuck.

I love to be challenged. I think a lot of the people that actually spend time on here and type out long ass replies about the topics on hand are.

On the other hand, a lot of people typing out long ass replies to percieved Resetera positions or percieved „lib“ positions aren’t.

And there we come to my basic point: GAF is now more than ever a diverse meeting point with people from diverse backgrounds and from diverse LOCATIONS. This right here is not an American circle jerk like certain other forums.

I would love for this community to just forget all your anger for a moment and lay down your opinions, however controversial they might seem, open and clear. And then let’s all discuss them open and free.

I realize I sound like some fucked up hippie here, but well. No one can’t deny that there’s some motivation with certain posters to „now finally own the discussion“ on here, as some form of retaliation against what was OLDGAF and is now resetera. A lot of the weirder ones of those dudes have been rightfully banned when they tried to deny the Holocaust and shit.

But us normal people who live around the middle of f the political spectrum, right of REEEra and left of fucking Voat, I think we can talk like normal people about whatever issues, can‘t we?
 

pramod

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A very noble idea. But then you have to get rid of the pussies such as AfricanKing, no one something somethings particular, JarBear etc. They are usually the ones stirring shit in this section.

But then again. Why is there a politics thread on a gaming forum in the first place. I play games and discuss games to get away from real world shit.
I actually find Nobody_Important to be one of the more reasonable leftists. The fact that he is simply open to discuss issues with Trump supporters without calling everyone a racist and alt-right. Contrast
that to the "typical" leftist these days (those that you would find on the other forum), who are no longer interested in conversation, they just want to label anything they disagree with as "alt-right and shut down
any good faith discussion.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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Yeah, that was badly worded, of course antagonism is a valuable contribution. I would be stupid to say otherwise, the whole OP is antagonistic as fuck.

I love to be challenged. I think a lot of the people that actually spend time on here and type out long ass replies about the topics on hand are.

On the other hand, a lot of people typing out long ass replies to percieved Resetera positions or percieved „lib“ positions aren’t.

And there we come to my basic point: GAF is now more than ever a diverse meeting point with people from diverse backgrounds and from diverse LOCATIONS. This right here is not an American circle jerk like certain other forums.

I would love for this community to just forget all your anger for a moment and lay down your opinions, however controversial they might seem, open and clear. And then let’s all discuss them open and free.

I realize I sound like some fucked up hippie here, but well. No one can’t deny that there’s some motivation with certain posters to „now finally own the discussion“ on here, as some form of retaliation against what was OLDGAF and is now resetera. A lot of the weirder ones of those dudes have been rightfully banned when they tried to deny the Holocaust and shit.

But us normal people who live around the middle of f the political spectrum, right of REEEra and left of fucking Voat, I think we can talk like normal people about whatever issues, can‘t we?
I don't think it was badly worded at all. Just wanted to point out that antagonism does have a specific purpose.

You're totally right about the strawmanning. I think most of those who do it are doing it without realizing it. They (falsely) believe it's a valid way to deal with an opposing viewpoint. The rigor of debate and logical thinking has to be patiently molded because it does not come naturally to any of us. We're all guilty of it.

"Oh, because you're a [standpoint], then I'm betting you also support [this other unrelated topic that supposedly makes you look like a hypcrite]. Hah! Finally cornered you. What do you have to say to that?"

I notice that a lot of arguments on GAF can be dismissed simply for running aground the common fallacies. The poster's heart may be in the right place and they may even have some facts on their side, but due to a breakdown of logic they come to absurd conclusions that do not follow from their own facts or beliefs.

This results in conversations that circle the drain and go nowhere. No one learns.

"Elevating the conversation" unfortunately means that people on the dumber end of the spectrum won't be able to keep up as easily. Unless they are able to overcome their habit of resorting to fallacies and rhetoric when they can't win an argument, they will remain unable to truly engage in the elevated conversation.

This is when "bullying" (a.k.a pointing out users who have a chronic inability to be consistent with their own beliefs) and "punching up" (a.k.a. making drive-bys and jabs when you cannot actually refute the point) both increase in frequency.

The goal shouldn't be to mechanically eliminate (e.g. leveraging the mods) all dissent. The goal should be for enough community members to voluntarily elevate their own quality of conversation so that the shitposters and trolls stand out like a sore thumb. It's really not that hard to do.

I'd argue GAF is already most of the way there.

Lemme borrow @njr for a sec, who nailed this topic already:

The problem as I have stated before is some people have a wrong idea about how posters lean here. This confuses the ones that lean harder and assume the person they're responding to is hard left/right. They see a differing opinion, do not apply the principle of charity. Then comes in the questioning of a poster's morality which is totally the wrong way to go about understanding an argument. So then people start getting the idea to "fight fire with fire" and then the pejoratives get thrown on both sides. There's been many threads where it takes pages to get past the whole "why are you defending this if you claim you're not Xphobic" or "How hard is it to treat people equally with respect". If there's anything that needs to change, it needs to be more steelmanning of arguments.
It only takes one or two thread participants "Steelmanning" to transform an otherwise boring thread into a vibrant conversation.
 
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DeepEnigma

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Why is there a politics thread on a gaming forum in the first place. I play games and discuss games to get away from real world shit.
Be thankful there’s a politics section on here now. Otherwise you would be dealing with it far worse on gaming side, as well as off-topic just as it was before, and just as it is on certain other forums.
 
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guggnichso

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A very noble idea. But then you have to get rid of the pussies such as AfricanKing, no one something somethings particular, JarBear etc. They are usually the ones stirring shit in this section.

But then again. Why is there a politics thread on a gaming forum in the first place. I play games and discuss games to get away from real world shit.

Dude, those are the people actually willing to discuss their position openly. My post wasn’t intended to say „yeah, let’s make this a hugbox and be done with it“.

Those are people that actually openly discuss with you guys, even if their opinions don’t align with yours.

This whole whining about „civilized discussion is only possible if everyone agrees with me“ is pure and utter bullshit.

That was what OLDGAF was and now Resetera is. You will be able to live your life even if you are confronted with dissenting opinions.
 

Boss Mog

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Is there dick in ass in these homosexual animals? If not then it's really just guy love between two guys
 

guggnichso

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I'm waiting for the videos that explore animals who also practice rape and cannibalism.
While I think that is quite off topic, I don’t think you have to wait for those videos. Documentation on animals raping each other and cannibalzing each other have been around since the 70s. I was born 79 and seeing lions eating their own and competitors young is one of the first memories I have regarding watching television. The other memory was watching Star Trek on a black and white screen and remembering that „Warp speed“ was called „Sol“ in our German translation back then.

I also remember documentaries on humans practicing cannibalism back then. I also remember more stories of rape from male and female friends I had over the years than I wish to remember.

Long story short, I probably shouldn’t have indulged in answering you and just told you to actually read the OP. Because irony.
 

Shifty.

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A very noble idea. But then you have to get rid of the pussies such as AfricanKing, no one something somethings particular, JarBear etc. They are usually the ones stirring shit in this section.
C'mon now, at least give @AfricanKing and @JareBear right of response by tagging them if you're going to talk shit on them.

Even if this is getting a bit Meta GAF, it's in the spirit of this thread's premise to actually engage with people and discuss how we do stuff here rather than simply noting them as undesirables.
 

Miku Miku

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If people continue to call out specific posters and just insult them personally instead of discuss ideas, then it will be the end of this entire site. That leads to cliques, it leads to people agreeing with people and not discussion points. It leads to a core class of preferred special posters that get support in every thread no matter what they write, and a class of outcast posters that get shit on no matter what they write. And then you might as well be a right wing Resetera at that point.

Ad hominem attacks are frowned upon for a reason. It's literally the only way this website can function is if that kind of thing is warned against and discouraged. Then people are free to discuss what they want and get a fair shot.

That's one thing I'd be fine with the mods throwing warnings out for. Don't call out people by name and shit on them.
 
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desertdroog

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While I think that is quite off topic, I don’t think you have to wait for those videos. Documentation on animals raping each other and cannibalzing each other have been around since the 70s. I was born 79 and seeing lions eating their own and competitors young is one of the first memories I have regarding watching television. The other memory was watching Star Trek on a black and white screen and remembering that „Warp speed“ was called „Sol“ in our German translation back then.

I also remember documentaries on humans practicing cannibalism back then. I also remember more stories of rape from male and female friends I had over the years than I wish to remember.

Long story short, I probably shouldn’t have indulged in answering you and just told you to actually read the OP. Because irony.
Off topic? This thread started with a video of 7 animals that practice homosexuality.
 

TheGreatYosh

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I actually find Nobody_Important to be one of the more reasonable leftists. The fact that he is simply open to discuss issues with Trump supporters without calling everyone a racist and alt-right. Contrast
that to the "typical" leftist these days (those that you would find on the other forum), who are no longer interested in conversation, they just want to label anything they disagree with as "alt-right and shut down
any good faith discussion.
You’re giving him too much credit. He tried that with me a couple times early on. I just don’t care, so he gave up.
 
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Rentahamster

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A very noble idea. But then you have to get rid of the pussies such as AfricanKing, no one something somethings particular, JarBear etc. They are usually the ones stirring shit in this section.

But then again. Why is there a politics thread on a gaming forum in the first place. I play games and discuss games to get away from real world shit.
Says the guy who is actually stirring shit with this very post. How noble of you :messenger_musical:
 

AfricanKing

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A very noble idea. But then you have to get rid of the pussies such as AfricanKing, no one something somethings particular, JarBear etc. They are usually the ones stirring shit in this section.

But then again. Why is there a politics thread on a gaming forum in the first place. I play games and discuss games to get away from real world shit.
You really don't have a clue what happens in politics if you think we shit stir, some posters like your self are not us to their opinions being pushed back.
 

weltalldx

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If people continue to call out specific posters and just insult them personally instead of discuss ideas, then it will be the end of this entire site. That leads to cliques, it leads to people agreeing with people and not discussion points. It leads to a core class of preferred special posters that get support in every thread no matter what they write, and a class of outcast posters that get shit on no matter what they write. And then you might as well be a right wing Resetera at that point.

Ad hominem attacks are frowned upon for a reason. It's literally the only way this website can function is if that kind of thing is warned against and discouraged. Then people are free to discuss what they want and get a fair shot.

That's one thing I'd be fine with the mods throwing warnings out for. Don't call out people by name and shit on them.
This sounds like a slippery slope that will eventually turn discussions into a resetera 2.0. Warning people lead to banning them, banning lead to regulating what type of ideas/thoughts/positions are allowed, at which point it will become another echo chamber for whatever ideology is deem acceptable.

I agree with Dun's point of letting the chip fall where they may, letting the community dictate the discourse through informal control rather than letting a few vocal minority who are quick to hit the report button and "cry wolf", effectively letting them wield too much influence on the direction of the discussion or shutting down discussions. These vocal few may have too much power if they get to coerce or sway formal sanctions against people/idea they don't like, which may happen when discussion become heated.
 
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guggnichso

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Says the guy who is actually stirring shit with this very post. How noble of you :messenger_musical:
You really don't have a clue what happens in politics if you think we shit stir, some posters like your self are not us to their opinions being pushed back.
Dudes. Just ignore him. For once, don’t fucking embarrass me. I have to DM with a weirdo (@desertdroog) about animal penisses for the sake of this thread, and THAT GUY just can’t get enough of throbbing hard penguin dick, so you can at least try to be civil or I will send that dude to your DMs.
 
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Solaris

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You really don't have a clue what happens in politics if you think we shit stir, some posters like your self are not us to their opinions being pushed back.
I don't have a political opinion. Sure I joke around. But the left and the right are equally retarded. Politics poisons everything.

P.S. I am however used to people who know how to spell and write a sentence:messenger_relieved:
 
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Miku Miku

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This sounds like a slippery slope that will eventually turn discussions into a resetera 2.0. Warnings people lead to banning them, banning lead to regulating what type of ideas/thoughts/positions are allowed, at which point it will become another echo chamber for whatever ideology is deem acceptable.

I agree with Dun's point of letting the chip fall where they may, letting the community dictate the discourse through informal control rather than the few vocal minority who are quick to hit the report button and "cry wolf". These vocal few may have too much power if they get to coerce or sway formal sanctions against people/idea they don't like.
nah, not even close. If someone insults me in real life and just calls me names, eventually we might be getting into a physical fight. On a website like this, we give the ability to enforce things to the mods. Mods can step in and give a warning against direct ad hominem posts with no real content arguing a position. That's not slippery at all. That's usually the only real rule on healthy forums.
 

Noboru Wataya

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I had a bit of push back with king earlier, while his posts were moronic at times I had fun. I came out of it with no ill will, I just knew when to stop. Some people dont seem to know when the actual discussion is over so the will find shit to row about in the hope it gets personal. Some people get way too into it, if you spot a shit poster or someone arguing in bad faith. Just stop, your arguments are on the board for all to see, you dont have to win all the time.

Im a lil drunk and realised I may not even be talking about the topic at hand.. I did see gay animals. Fuck it, im pushing Post Reply. Come at me
 

Shifty.

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I had a bit of push back with king earlier, while his posts were moronic at times I had fun. I came out of it with no ill will, I just knew when to stop. Some people dont seem to know when the actual discussion is over so the will find shit to row about in the hope it gets personal. Some people get way too into it, if you spot a shit poster or someone arguing in bad faith. Just stop, your arguments are on the board for all to see, you dont have to win all the time.

Im a lil drunk and realised I may not even be talking about the topic at hand.. I did see gay animals. Fuck it, im pushing Post Reply. Come at me
Nah fam, you're good :messenger_tears_of_joy:

The point about arguments being on the board for all to see is bang-on. Ultimately the tale of the tape is right there, so knowing when to disengage or ramp down is a healthy thing to do because there's no need to get that 'sick own' in. Shitposters are already owning themselves.

Politics poisons everything.
By jove, you're right! Just look at this-
P.S. I am however used to people who know how to spell and write a sentence:messenger_relieved:
Are you here to stir shit or discuss?
 
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Teletraan1

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You really don't have a clue what happens in politics if you think we shit stir, some posters like your self are not us to their opinions being pushed back.
You did it today in the Anti-SJW youtube commentators thread. Your comment was some disingenuous thanks for posting but dog whistles shitpost. I apologize for responding the way I did and I am about to do but you are full of shit here.
 

matt404au

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I’m down with improving political discourse, but don’t let your desire for peaceful discussion allow you to turn a blind eye to poor behaviours that will undermine the social cohesion in the long run. Civility is built from the the bottom up, not enforced from the top down. Allowing serial liars and manipulators like @Nobody_Important to get a pass simply because they are the political “other” will do more damage in the long run. Moreover, he is a piss poor representation of the left and you should want better if you are seeking quality, balanced political discourse.

I don’t care if you feel uncomfortable with him being mocked — you should instead look at the purpose of it and not allow your feelings to override corrective social forces. Is it being done out of spite and simply for the sake of bullying him, or is it the consequence of previous bad behaviour that he has not learned from? Giving too much power to traditionally feminine approaches that level the playing field irrespective of merit are part of how we ended up in the current_year cultural mess. Do not shield spoiled children from the consequences of their actions for short term harmony as it will only lead to long term disharmony. Feigning civility only allows things to fester below the surface and this is ultimately unsustainable. You reach civility by eliminating anti-social behaviours, and mockery is a key part of that no matter how uncomfortable you may feel.

For the record, I’ve got no beef with guys like @AfricanKing, @BraveOne, @DeafTourette and @JareBear because, even though I disagree with a lot of their opinions, I think they’re trying to be honest and not manipulating others to satisfy a personality disorder. They have good intentions and are the kinds of people I could have a pint with and meet in the middle once we hash out why we believe the things we do. They’ve also shown that they’re capable of introspection and learning from mistakes, as we all should be. These are the behaviours that build civility over time. Don’t settle for less.