Support NeoGAF

[Walter Matthau]

 

[Nehezir]

of course. All a powerful system enables(visually) is letting you turn less things off without sacrificing framerate. It lets you toy around with the things they had to scale back from consoles.
You know what my RTX 2070 and R7 3700x lets me do that consoles can't? Run ReShade. Tweak the settings,
You know what it lets me do that a rig running a GTX1650 can't? Run FFXIV with ReShade effects through the roof while also playing Monster Hunter World on the second Monitor.
Hells, I'm *still* pushing 40-60 fps in both of them during that. A beefy rig enables quit a lot of things, but sure. It can't make textures any nicer than what the devs put in.

And sure, I don't know any high-end PC exclusives. But I don't think exclusives should exist, period.

 

[VFXVeteran]

So ultimately you're going to still see consoles lead the industry and decide when the generation starts in regards to updated specs and you're very likely going to see the consoles lead the industry in regards to graphical fidelity as the majority of developers are not going out of their way to make use of 30 teraflops on PC.

I see this alot on these forums.

I'm not sure where the miscommunication breaks down here. Every single graphics card that has come from Nvidia has some advanced feature set that is released before the consoles. People have to remember that these companies aren't just gaming companies. AMD and Nvidia work with all different types of companies and their input is what pushes tech forward. We've been crying about ray-tracing for the longest and we finally got it.

Graphical fidelity is another one lost in translation. If you remover the artistic element, there isn't anything graphically enhancing in any of the console games. They follow behind 3rd party graphics engines. The guys at iD, DICE, RE Engine, Frostbite, Crytek, Unreal, Unity.. those are the engines that are under significant graphics development. It's not the 1st party graphics engines developers that put the latest tech in their engines first.

 

[makaveli60]

They are jerking off to
numbers while You are playing this exclusively:

Can't wait to play it. Until then I'm playing Ghost of Tsushima. My only problem is it is not running in 16k and 999 fps. Looks like shit.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I know people are excited about Nvidia's recent announcement of 30 Tlop PC GPU's, but realistically they are just doubling the number of cuda cores per SM, similar to how you double the number of CPU cores per physical core. Yet more than that, in every generation, consoles never had the best hardware and in every generation the best GPU the PC had to offer was always much more expensive than consoles....

Yet we are back to the same old cycle with PC GPU's vs a console. The strongest PC GPU is never going to be leveraged by a dev or no one is going to give a dev the gargantuan budget they need to defy all graphics technology by developing solely for a 3090, because realistically the market would not be there to make it viable. PC devs have already been burnt by pursuing such. Look at Crysis, a stalwart developed for high end PC GPU's years ago, but whilst Crytek has been on the verge of going under numerous times, the dev who developed a very good looking but also fluid 60fps game in COD has made bank upon bank over the years. The fortnites are bringing all the cash, why? Accessibility, because these games can target a wider spread of the market. In truth, boasting about the best GPU is something that has no real impact on how games are made, which games are made and which games are pushing the graphical envelope anymore....

In PS4's era, you had 13.7-15TF GPU's in Vega, Pascal and Turing, but the hardware which consistently wowed people with visuals or visual engineering was the PS4, time after time. In order to exploit hardware, you need an end game, you need a solid installbase with good enough hardware where talented devs can utilize and maximize it's potential minus utility rez upgrades. By no means was PS4 anywhere close to the i7-i9's or the 1080ti's to 2080ti's, but it was where a solid enough installbase existed to fuel a proper investment and commitment to AAA development. In essence, there were some limitations last gen based on what could go into these consoles. Yet now, consoles will be decked with state of the art CPU's and GPU's, not mobile parts and just like a 1.84TF console with a lowly Jaguar gave us the best looking games in the last seven years over all the PC behemoth machines, I expect the 10TF custom hardware with a good GPU to do even more against the behemoth kits we will see on PC, simply because the PC power will never be utilized ground up, the high end cards will never have the installbase to warrant the AAA development and budgets in the consoles space.

As we have seen very often. PC has always stayed ahead of the consoles, but it has been the consoles always pushing visuals forward with every new generation........

There is always a PS5 Pro

 

[EDMIX]

I see this alot on these forums.

I'm not sure where the miscommunication breaks down here. Every single graphics card that has come from Nvidia has some advanced feature set that is released before the consoles. People have to remember that these companies aren't just gaming companies. AMD and Nvidia work with all different types of companies and their input is what pushes tech forward. We've been crying about ray-tracing for the longest and we finally got it.

Graphical fidelity is another one lost in translation. If you remover the artistic element, there isn't anything graphically enhancing in any of the console games. They follow behind 3rd party graphics engines. The guys at iD, DICE, RE Engine, Frostbite, Crytek, Unreal, Unity.. those are the engines that are under significant graphics development. It's not the 1st party graphics engines developers that put the latest tech in their engines first.

Thats nice, but ultimately none of that even matters if none of the companies you even mentioned are doing anything with that hardware outside of making their current gen games look slightly better.

"The guys at iD, DICE, RE Engine, Frostbite, Crytek, Unreal, Unity" yea and they put out their content based on when MS and Sony put out their systems. Those high end Titan cards released in 2016, how come we didn't get any next gen looking shit from those companies on PC?

Yet Sony and MS announce new systems and this is what you are hearing from DICE.




How come we didn't hear about this in 2016 when those Titan cards released? OH but new next gen systems are announced and here is some new stuff we are working on for NEXT GEN systems? hmmmm its almost as if they don't give a shit about a new GPU and ONLY start doing stuff with new hardware when consoles are announced....

Unreal engine stuff right? Like....the stuff they showed for PS5?



So even the "guys" you are talking about only do this when new CONSOLES are coming out.

When new GPUs release, all you see is CURRENT GEN GAMES get different features like RT.





So those guys only make those massive leaps when Sony and MS are making next gen hardware, not when a new GPU comes out as you have to question why we didn't see that stuff in 2016?

With those Titan cards, how come we didn't see NEXT GEN looking games on PC then? All we got was current gen titles with RT on bud. You will only see developers actually make that leap when they have PS5 and Series X to release games on.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Not again with this ''artistically'' bs?

It's about tech, deal with it.

The insane poly count in part 2 is tech, the insanely detailed environment is tech. You can't do much with art direction especially to realistic approaches. In fact, only GOT can be considered artistic. And again you can recognize the tech inside. Ok you can say that it benefits from it. One game.

Yes, it is better artistically than Part 2, but PS4 users know that part two has better tech. Why is so difficult to differentiate these two values?

Almost all the sony exclusives look better than anything else out there. And again, most of the times(9 out of ten) they don't follow an artistic approach.

They do follow an artistic approach because the games aren't doing anything tech-wise that no other hardware can't do. Just go over the 1st party games on PS4 and figure out what was different than any other 3rd party game. Ignore all the colorful lighting and foliage.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Thats nice, but ultimately none of that even matters if none of the companies you even mentioned are doing anything with that hardware outside of making their current gen games look slightly better.

Slightly better? Come on dude. You are really trying to convince your own lie. Is MM slightly better than Spiderman? It has RT reflections and .... that's all we've seen. You either admit that it's slightly better or that it's drastically better just because it has RT reflections and then look at all the PC games last gen that had RTX, native 4k, etc.. I swear you guys are so hypocritical about the PS and other platforms. It's really ridiculous.

 

[Pankratous]

High end PlayStation exclusives will continue to be the best looking games on the market, as they have done for the last two generations.

 

[LittleBigGamer]

They do follow an artistic approach because the games aren't doing anything tech-wise that no other hardware can't do.

Again most of them don't follow some artistic approach. And Sony doesn't have some kind of exclusivity in art. This is your imagination/wishful thinking in order to downplay them. They are just better technically than the games you like. Focusing on single spec gives a better outcome than focusing on multiple platforms. It's not a matter of hardware. Of course, they can do it in other hardware if they decide to go exclusive there.

most of the games out there are better artistically than sony's games(they don't focus there). It's tech!

goodnight

 

[Md Ray]

I see this alot on these forums.

I'm not sure where the miscommunication breaks down here. Every single graphics card that has come from Nvidia has some advanced feature set that is released before the consoles. People have to remember that these companies aren't just gaming companies. AMD and Nvidia work with all different types of companies and their input is what pushes tech forward. We've been crying about ray-tracing for the longest and we finally got it.

Graphical fidelity is another one lost in translation. If you remover the artistic element, there isn't anything graphically enhancing in any of the console games. They follow behind 3rd party graphics engines. The guys at iD, DICE, RE Engine, Frostbite, Crytek, Unreal, Unity.. those are the engines that are under significant graphics development. It's not the 1st party graphics engines developers that put the latest tech in their engines first.

Are there any examples of those feature sets that Nvidia had before the PS4/XB1 launched? Just curious.

 

[freefornow]

High end PlayStation exclusives will continue to be the best looking games on the market, as they have done for the last two generations.

The " best looking games on the market for the last 2 generations" you say.
The last 2 generations.

 

[GustavoLT]

That is exactly why I hate the fanboyism. You know that the PC is far superior but because an exclusive on the PS doesn't show up on the PC (or other platform), you can use that as a means for arguing best looking games are ONLY on 1st party exclusives for Sony. You do that despite the tech in the PC games being vastly superior. You turn your subjective opinion to objective fact -- which has been used for ammunition for years. That's why all the crybabies are mad about Sony porting exclusives to the PC. It will remove that argument for good.

This generation will be different. You'll see the PC get some of those exclusives and it will run/look far better than the PS versions. As I said before, this generation is the generation that the PC outweighs all other platforms with the games that will come out looking stellar and getting the best of both worlds 1st party exclusives and 3rd party games.

You didnt get it, where i live putting a high end pc together is out of reach! So i consider myself a console gamer! The fact that Sony can deliver, from their exclusives, some of the greatest graphics of generations keeps us (console gamers) not far from pc gamers... of course the same game will always look better on PC!

 

[GamingArena]

Relax, you will be still able to play your games at 30fps on new PS/Xbox

 

[thelastword]

I see this alot on these forums.

I'm not sure where the miscommunication breaks down here. Every single graphics card that has come from Nvidia has some advanced feature set that is released before the consoles. People have to remember that these companies aren't just gaming companies. AMD and Nvidia work with all different types of companies and their input is what pushes tech forward. We've been crying about ray-tracing for the longest and we finally got it.

Graphical fidelity is another one lost in translation. If you remover the artistic element, there isn't anything graphically enhancing in any of the console games. They follow behind 3rd party graphics engines. The guys at iD, DICE, RE Engine, Frostbite, Crytek, Unreal, Unity.. those are the engines that are under significant graphics development. It's not the 1st party graphics engines developers that put the latest tech in their engines first.

They do follow an artistic approach because the games aren't doing anything tech-wise that no other hardware can't do. Just go over the 1st party games on PS4 and figure out what was different than any other 3rd party game. Ignore all the colorful lighting and foliage.

And you wonder why people say you are a bit one-sided in your ramblings, because if anyone dare says a lowly console has better graphics, they are ignorant or misinformed.....Yet it is you who is showing how misinformed you really are, especially for one who is supposedly familiar with graphics technology.....


You need to understand a few things....

1) Tech is not graphics, tech is the means to accomplish the graphics, software or hardware. However you accomplish it is irrelevant as long as the final result is convincing.

2) Art cannot exist without tech, they both merge to form a whole. For you to say Sony games are just art and devoid of tech is so left field.

3.) Even with these two combined, it's all irrelevant without talent. A guy can have a great piece of hardware that can push the best tech simulations, a guy can draw a great piece of art for the next Assassins Creed game, it's irrelevant if you can't properly and manually meld the art and tech together to appear right and to give off your visual vision, whether you are going for realism, a more stylized style, or a more cartoonish type style.....Especially for the first two you need a great deal of talent to make it work and look authentic.....


A 30TF GPU is able to push more simulations at higher resolutions, but the tech in the console is the same just with lower fidelity. Yet tech in simply a bruteforce way is irrelevant because some high tech simulations may automate the process for some devs but the final result is not as convincing when you have devs with less hardware but with more talent, who work harder to tweak the final imagery at all camera angles, increase the ATD that players will see in all instances.....This is what graphics technology and engineering is all about. When the the final product is well laced and true to vision, when it's convincing and truly immersive and detailed in motion...

Animation is part of graphics, it's visual, it's how you perceive a character moving and reacting under many different circumstances, facial, kinematics, everything. Physics is also part of the visual makeup, how things realistically break, water simulates, grass moves. Graphics only really impresses when all of these elements are up to a high standard.....That's why ND and Santa Monica and RAD and defunct EVO are winning best graphics. That's why PD is at the top of the driving genre...It's because of all the elements combined and the hard work and extreme talent from these studios...


Remember all these Nvidia Smoke Works, FX Works, Hairworks etc...Where are they now, they were just automated bruteforce simulations that could max you card in a second, the most powerful CPU or GPU can be maxed out with one simulation and the rest of the game will cease to exist because there is no more cycles left.....Some of the bruteforce simulations I've seen does nothing to enhance the graphics of games, just wasted GPU or CPU power that could be used to heighten other parts of the engine that will suffer because one aspect of the pipeline is too GPU heavy....

Look at FF15, nice looking game in parts, but a bit unbalanced; textures, character models suffered because they were pushing too much in other areas, that didn't lift the graphics up as a whole. Wasted development time on hairworks, which crippled framerates, when they could have been boosting texture fidelity, foliage, character models, lighting and weather. Now you can disable hairworks, but the texture work is still subpar, the models are not automatically enhanced......That's the downside to those Nvidia is pushing the tech schtick.....

Look at RT, good tech right? but look how sloppy, noisy and unrealistic it looks in so many games, BF5 was a mirror shooter, no need to aim down sights just watch the guy through the car's reflection.....That's where tech without talent or properly melded art and tweaking shows it's deficiency. So I told folk, the only time you will see convincing RT is when the most talented devs joins the party, I said it would be when consoles launch and you will see. So boasting that you spent $1200 for 4 noisy RT games 3 years aback is looking silly right now, when you see what talented devs will do with the technology and just not put reflections everywhere and waste resources that's not even visually appealing or correct....Talent will always win.

Just so you know, the fur in SOTC remake is much more impressive than all the wasted GPU cycles on creatures in FF15 and Witcher 3 combined. The best graphics is what convinces most on the screen, not how much power you put behind it.....You need to learn that and learn it fast....

 

[Krisprolls]

most of the games out there are better artistically than sony's games(they don't focus there). It's tech!

Hell no, they're not either. Sony 1st party games are among the best both technically and artistically... TLOU2, GoT, HZD or God of War are outstanding artistically too...

 

[Maestr0]

This is their fight OP, no need for you to worry about. What you need to worry about is your fun in the game you play.

 

[Mobilemofo]

@op, don't worry about pc shit. Just enjoy the games on the console of your choice.. Easy.

 

[Gamer79]

I'm a console player but not mad at pc guys. They pay for those extra framerates. THE GPU's alone on most systems are more than a ps5 is going to be.

 

[VFXVeteran]

1) Tech is not graphics, tech is the means to accomplish the graphics, software or hardware. However you accomplish it is irrelevant as long as the final result is convincing.

And yet, it is you Sony guys that merge the two for some reason and focus on the tech

Let's jump straight to the 4K screenshots I've made from the video! Put in mind that the video itself is heavily compressed, but I made PNG screenshots to preserve as much details as possible:

Raytraced reflections:

Looking into this screenshot, you can clearly see Ratchet's raytraced reflection on Clank. The red bulb on Clank's head is also reflective on his own body on other frames.

And here is another shot showing the fine reflections on Clank's body/head:

GIF by @Grinchy

Mirror reflection on that portal and reflections of all things on the shiny floor. Some effects aren't reflective, as it seems they didn't raytrace them. It's a mixture of cubemap and real-time raytracing reflections as it seems, and this is a pre-alpha build, improved over the first reveal, and should expect better results in the final build.

High-quality shadows (raytraced?):

You can spot that every hair has its own high-quality shadow:

Even during gameplay, look at the tail fur:

Subsurface scattering (translucency):

As noticed by @Pedro Motta , you can see it clearly on the pinky alien on the left here.

High-quality particles:

Just look at the liquid splash and other particles that can be extremely crowded in some parts of the demo without noticeable penalty in performance.

A GIF by GymWolf

Extremely fast and dynamic transitions:

Powered by state-of-the-art SSD customization and assisted by extensively detailed I/O.

Dynamic, high-quality damage deformation:

Some objects like the concrete blocks, you can see how different the damage model is and how they dynamically get broken eventually. Look at the side concrete blocks, you can see here even interactive particles of this lightning gun:

Look at the detailed damage and all the debris around:

And here they've been broken:

Infinite draw distance without aliasing:

Whether it's close or far all the way to the outer planets/moons, everything looks insanely sharp as if it's been pulled off directly from a Hollywood CGI movie. Geometry Engines help achieving that without a performance penalty, drawing what's needed to be drawn on screen per frame budget of polygons. Look at the wood texture!

High polygon-count models:

Near-CGI level that made many observers skeptical at first, but it's pretty clear that it will only get better as this latest demo was a refined version of the first one. Due to Geometry Engines and in updated game engines that take advantage of them, no more LOD's that add more wasteful size to game size.

There wasn't a single artistic comment in that comment.. not ONE.

You can't hide behind art and swear it's the TECH that makes these exclusives stand out. Everything that is mentioned here has been done before and done better at some point.

2) Art cannot exist without tech, they both merge to form a whole. For you to say Sony games are just art and devoid of tech is so left field.

You are right about Art. I agree. But I condemn the tech because you act like it's only better because of better talent. Neither are the same or require the same talent.

3.) Even with these two combined, it's all irrelevant without talent. A guy can have a great piece of hardware that can push the best tech simulations, a guy can draw a great piece of art for the next Assassins Creed game, it's irrelevant if you can't properly and manually meld the art and tech together to appear right and to give off your visual vision, whether you are going for realism, a more stylized style, or a more cartoonish type style.....Especially for the first two you need a great deal of talent to make it work and look authentic.....

That's true to an extent. But you act like NO 3rd party title company has any talent and that the very first game that comes out for the PS is going to "look better" than anything out. That's a huge disservice to the companies that do push tech beyond the consoles and into more realistic realm. Like FS2020.

A 30TF GPU is able to push more simulations at higher resolutions, but the tech in the console is the same just with lower fidelity.

The tech is NOT the same in the consoles. If it was then everyone would be at parity. There is no DLSS in the consoles.. and we still don't know if the PS5 has individual RTX units. Last gen, the PS4 didn't even have 16x anisotropic filtering for whatever reason )turned off in drivers?). So tech is not the same at all. The algorithms in the game engine might be the same.

Look at RT, good tech right? but look how sloppy, noisy and unrealistic it looks in so many games, BF5 was a mirror shooter, no need to aim down sights just watch the guy through the car's reflection.....That's where tech without talent or properly melded art and tweaking shows it's deficiency. So I told folk, the only time you will see convincing RT is when the most talented devs joins the party, I said it would be when consoles launch and you will see. So boasting that you spent $1200 for 4 noisy RT games 3 years aback is looking silly right now, when you see what talented devs will do with the technology and just not put reflections everywhere and waste resources that's not even visually appealing or correct....Talent will always win.

And yet that's probably most of what you'll get next-gen is reflections. Miles and R&C are the only 2 games showcasing RT and they are both only using reflections.

The best graphics is what convinces most on the screen, not how much power you put behind it.....You need to learn that and learn it fast....

A very weak argument as you just put it into a purely subjective realm. Let me ask you, why don't you guys respect Breath of the Wild for graphics? The art direction is superb, it has great animation and the overall package is amazing. Yet, you'll laugh at it if someone compares it to any Sony exclusive. Why? Because you'll bring up tech...

Not playing your game man..

 

[Bo_Hazem]

And yet, it is you Sony guys that merge the two for some reason and focus on the tech



There wasn't a single artistic comment in that comment.. not ONE.

You can't hide behind art and swear it's the TECH that makes these exclusives stand out. Everything that is mentioned here has been done before and done better at some point.



You are right about Art. I agree. But I condemn the tech because you act like it's only better because of better talent. Neither are the same or require the same talent.



That's true to an extent. But you act like NO 3rd party title company has any talent and that the very first game that comes out for the PS is going to "look better" than anything out. That's a huge disservice to the companies that do push tech beyond the consoles and into more realistic realm. Like FS2020.



The tech is NOT the same in the consoles. If it was then everyone would be at parity. There is no DLSS in the consoles.. and we still don't know if the PS5 has individual RTX units. Last gen, the PS4 didn't even have 16x anisotropic filtering for whatever reason )turned off in drivers?). So tech is not the same at all. The algorithms in the game engine might be the same.



And yet that's probably most of what you'll get next-gen is reflections. Miles and R&C are the only 2 games showcasing RT and they are both only using reflections.



A very weak argument as you just put it into a purely subjective realm. Let me ask you, why don't you guys respect Breath of the Wild for graphics? The art direction is superb, it has great animation and the overall package is amazing. Yet, you'll laugh at it if someone compares it to any Sony exclusive. Why? Because you'll bring up tech...

Not playing your game man..

 

[nkarafo]

PCs are always about the frame rate and image quality.

A console exclusive might be "the best looking game" in still screenshots, but in motion i was far more impressed by, say, Dark Souls 3 @ max settings + 60fps.

Best looking console exclusives will always be stuck at 30fps. It's a curse.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Thats nice, but ultimately none of that even matters if none of the companies you even mentioned are doing anything with that hardware outside of making their current gen games look slightly better.

"The guys at iD, DICE, RE Engine, Frostbite, Crytek, Unreal, Unity" yea and they put out their content based on when MS and Sony put out their systems. Those high end Titan cards released in 2016, how come we didn't get any next gen looking shit from those companies on PC?

Yet Sony and MS announce new systems and this is what you are hearing from DICE.

...


How come we didn't hear about this in 2016 when those Titan cards released? OH but new next gen systems are announced and here is some new stuff we are working on for NEXT GEN systems? hmmmm its almost as if they don't give a shit about a new GPU and ONLY start doing stuff with new hardware when consoles are announced....

Unreal engine stuff right? Like....the stuff they showed for PS5?

...

So even the "guys" you are talking about only do this when new CONSOLES are coming out.

When new GPUs release, all you see is CURRENT GEN GAMES get different features like RT.
...

So those guys only make those massive leaps when Sony and MS are making next gen hardware, not when a new GPU comes out as you have to question why we didn't see that stuff in 2016?

With those Titan cards, how come we didn't see NEXT GEN looking games on PC then? All we got was current gen titles with RT on bud. You will only see developers actually make that leap when they have PS5 and Series X to release games on.

Yet this forum is creaming themselves over Ratchet and Clank being "true next gen" when it looks like PS4 Ratchet and Clank with some minor ray tracing and faster load times lol.

When will people learn that there is no "next gen" defined standards, and generally all it comes down to is better graphics thanks to better hardware. Game design doesn't massively change because game design hasn't really been held back by hardware for a while. Some games on PC have looked "next gen" compared to consoles for years. I get the feeling a lot of people are going to be very disappointed with this upcoming generation if they're expecting some mindblowing new gameplay.

 

[TearInto5th]

I agree... when you only have one platform to code and develop for, you get far more time to optimise and can push to max out your hardware beyond what it looks like it should be able to theoretically.

When you need to cater for something that has far lower speed and power in your development, including all of the different variations of one piece of hardware, the floor to ceiling gap is enormous.

There are so many variables in the high end PC world that it makes it impossible for devs to efficiently maximise any of the actual hardware. Nvidia have created something incredible .

Teraflops dont mean much anymore, and Sony has proven that this generation, Microsoft can too with enough talent, but i dont feel they're aiming for it.

 

[Shifty1897]

How misguided these threads are. Every lighting model, antialiasing method, physics model, hair effect, reflection and post processing effects were pioneered on PC years before it first happened on console.

You could maybe argue dynamic resolutions pioneered on consoles, to be honest I can't think of a PC game that did that first.

 

[EDMIX]

Slightly better? Come on dude. You are really trying to convince your own lie. Is MM slightly better than Spiderman? It has RT reflections and .... that's all we've seen. You either admit that it's slightly better or that it's drastically better just because it has RT reflections and then look at all the PC games last gen that had RTX, native 4k, etc.. I swear you guys are so hypocritical about the PS and other platforms. It's really ridiculous.

It is slightly better bud, but the reality is, that is something that is normal for the start of a generation to see launch games like that.

Not the whole fucking generation. So you can't make that comparison from Spiderman that released on PS3 to PS4.




"It has RT reflections and .... that's all we've seen"

Yea....and you could argue this about all current generation games on PC currently bud.... You'll just see those features even on high end PCs, used on PS5 Pro and Series X Pro etc.

How come we don't see any huge next gen looking titles on PC despite the Titan cards coming out in 2016? So the reality is, RT is not making games on PC look next gen anymore then what you see from that Spiderman launch game, but at the very least make the comparison when we have a Spiderman 2 in a new engine vs a dated one. So if you think Spiderman on PS5 looks slightly better, it simply supports that clearly you must already feel this way about those PC titles bud.

Notice that having more powerful hardware on the PS5 doesn't matter when using a dated engine, so what the fuck did you think was happening all theses years on PC? Oh now you have a problem with it? This is something you can only say about a launch title, on PC .....thats going to be THE WHOLE GENERATION! Current gen games that are simply "slightly better".

Try that "slightly better" argument with The Last Of Us 1 vs 2 or Spiderman PS3 vs PS4 instead of cherry picking a launch game. No one here can even name 1 fucking PC AAA exclusive title. I stand by my original comment bud, "ultimately none of that even matters if none of the companies you even mentioned are doing anything with that hardware outside of making their current gen games look slightly better"

You'll see PC make that jump with stuff like Battlefield 6 BECAUSE PS5 and Series X exist, NOT because PC shit exist, doesn't that same stuff exist right now? Where is their new engine? Titan Cards came out in 2016, where is DICE's exclusive PC title thats looking to max out those cards that can only be made with those cards?

I noticed you dodged that question.... PC follows the lead from console, modularity is their gift and curse. Not ENOUGH own those cards for any company to give 2 shits about making some AAA PC exclusive, its why you don't see any jump happening right now on PC with any company making some title that NEEDS a Titan card to run, but thats the same thing you'll see from PS5 PRO and Series X PRO, PC is simply just the "PRO" version of those consoles in terms of what its doing, its why you don't see any of the companies you mentioned putting out titles ONLY on PC that are AAA to even max out those cards. Its why you are dodging the question. It pretty much is the meat of this topic. So consoles will lead the industry in graphics? Very, very likely as they decided when that even starts. If PC leaded the industry in that, we'd have multiple companies that had AAA titles that only could be made on PC like we used to have back in the day. That died when MS entered gaming. XB having stuff like Doom 3, Half Life 2, Far Cry, KOTOR etc was the beginning of the end of that era.

Those days are over bud.

 

[Chun Swae]

High-end PC GPU's from my understanding has always been about playing multiplatform games at higher resolutions and FPS' than console. The base game looks pretty much the same even with higher settings. You will never see a game targeting a 3080 type of card because the reasons the OP mentioned.

 

[jufonuk]

I dont have a pc haven’t had a beast in ages. Well pc’s will always wipe the floor with consoles.
If they made a console with upgradable parts then that would be a game changer.

 

[DavJay]

I mean he is correct. Uncharted 2 blew every game away at the time. And now the last of us 2 and Ghost of Tobishi. It’s the same pattern yet pc gamers overpay for there under utilized hardware.

 

[iJudged]

i just saw it was you and i didn't read, sorry.

 

[diffusionx]

You'll see PC make that jump with stuff like Battlefield 6 BECAUSE PS5 and Series X exist, NOT because PC shit exist, doesn't that same stuff exist right now? Where is their new engine? Titan Cards came out in 2016, where is DICE's exclusive PC title thats looking to max out those cards that can only be made with those cards?

I remember playing PC exclusive Battlefield 3 way back when, it was the shit (and it ran far better on my mainstream PC than BF4 did on console 2 years later), yet they decide to dumb down their games and chase the dollar for garbage dump games like Battlefield 1 and this is supposed to make me happier to buy a console? It is supposed to be a win in console's favor? DICE blows.

Anyone even if the dynamic is exactly as you describe, on a forum full of supposed enthusiasts, I would think that it would be considered a crying shame that top-tier hardware and the advancements that come with them is held back by piece of shit consoles for as long as giant multinational companies choose to sell them.

 

[nochance]

Nvidia just dwarfed the power of the new consoles but that's not to say they aren't still impressive. They are up there with the best of the previous gen PC cards, and that power combined with built in SSDs is gonna make for an incredible foundation for new games to run off. Expect to see huge improvements in visual consistency, world complexity, transitioning and of course load times across the board.

They will be closing in on a 1080ti, which is a 3 and a half year old card. I still don't see why console gamers would punish themselves by putting so much value into the graphics department. A console is supposed to bring big boy gaming to your living room, at an affordable price.

Let's hope that the PS5 is 299.

I can only imagine what will happen, if the consoles get announced at 499+ and NVidia decides to announce the RTX 3060 for 349. It sure seems like they decided to put AMD out of their misery.

 

[Rathorial]

So does this thread only exist because the next-gen consoles have had weak showings so far (likely due to covid), while Nvidia had a good showing by offering good value gpus?

Also, I completely disagree that console exclusives lead the whole industry in pushing graphical fidelity. All of the major console exclusives are using similar techniques as other large third-party developers. About the only area where I sometimes see Sony exclusives push above others is when it comes to animation in cutscenes or context-sensitive events, usually from Naughty Dog. Otherwise I'd easily say Red Dead Redemption 2 on PC competes with any Sony exclusive, along with Control and Metro Exodus adding fidelity through real-time ray-tracing. Likely the gen will end with Cyberpunk 2077 being the highest fidelity open world, with the ray-traced pc version being at the top.

Nothing Sony has put out is some generation ahead experience, just a handful push presentation along with a handful of third-party devs that dump enough cash in. Console versions can push the hardware more being a fixed sku, but they always make sacrifices, whether it's frame-rate, draw distance, shadow resolution, etc. Also, the majority of new graphical techniques are pioneered by third-party devs or multi-plat game engines.

 

[Barnabot]

What's up with all these fucking console threads? All gameplay tech demos from expos are run on PCs even if they're console exclusives. Don't delude yourselves.

two words: seeking validation

 

[Spukc]

Its like watching ants trying to steal sugar

 

[thelastword]

It is slightly better bud, but the reality is, that is something that is normal for the start of a generation to see launch games like that.

So he is saying how Spiderman is not a big leap, when just a few weeks back they were saying they have not seen much gameplay from Spiderman. So how is he judging Spiderman then.....Yet if we go by the brief trailer the leap in Spiderman is pretty substantial. Character models, textures, lighting, DOF, framerate, ATD and effects.....

Yet never forget, he is the same guy who sees a huge next gen enhancement on console games coming to PC. COD,BF, Witcher on PC are indistinguishable from the games you play on console....Remember, Horizon Zero Dawn looks a whole generation better than Horizon 2 Forbidden West.....because it's on PC.....VFX's logic and consistency is legendary...

I remember playing PC exclusive Battlefield 3 way back when, it was the shit (and it ran far better on my mainstream PC than BF4 did on console 2 years later), yet they decide to dumb down their games and chase the dollar for garbage dump games like Battlefield 1 and this is supposed to make me happier to buy a console? It is supposed to be a win in console's favor? DICE blows.

Anyone even if the dynamic is exactly as you describe, on a forum full of supposed enthusiasts, I would think that it would be considered a crying shame that top-tier hardware and the advancements that come with them is held back by piece of shit consoles for as long as giant multinational companies choose to sell them.

There's an easy fix for that, drop a GTX 3090 in every chimney around the world and pay Nvidia.....We will see devs do ground up games for high end GPU's then....Though, some of the guys still on pentiums/athlons and SFF's will have to upgrade their MB, motherboard, case, ram and perhaps the OS to get that GPU viable, they'd mostly need an SSD to get their rig ready for Nvidia I/O as well...You will have to cover those costs too.....

 

[VFXVeteran]

It is slightly better bud, but the reality is, that is something that is normal for the start of a generation to see launch games like that.

Agreed. But let's try to calm the Sony gamers when that game comes out and they see RT reflections for the first time ever on their platform. I think you know what I"m getting at.

Yea....and you could argue this about all current generation games on PC currently bud.... You'll just see those features even on high end PCs, used on PS5 Pro and Series X Pro etc.

Don't think there will be a PS5 Pro given the price of the regular PS5. But we can revisit that in 3yrs.

How come we don't see any huge next gen looking titles on PC despite the Titan cards coming out in 2016?

Because the PC isn't a console. PCs are ongoing agnostic hardware. They aren't dependent on console generations.

You'll see PC make that jump with stuff like Battlefield 6 BECAUSE PS5 and Series X exist, NOT because PC shit exist, doesn't that same stuff exist right now? Where is their new engine? Titan Cards came out in 2016, where is DICE's exclusive PC title thats looking to max out those cards that can only be made with those cards?

Not true. Cyberpunk and many other games are going to have RTX regardless of whether the PS5/XSX has it or not.

If PC leaded the industry in that, we'd have multiple companies that had AAA titles that only could be made on PC..

It's not about making an exclusive title for the PC. It's generic hardware that companies would lose money on. We already know that. But that doesn't mean the PC version of games can be run on consoles. They can't. In fact the entire generation last gen not a single PC 3rd party game at Ultra settings could run on a console. We'll see that again this new generation.

Those days are over bud.

Yes, they are for now. But that's not the point.

 

[Night.Ninja]

Hit puberty
15 TF
ZEN 4 CPU
RDNA 3.6
24GB RAM
HBM MEMORY
LIQUID COOLED

The day that dream died a lot of people mentally snapped

 

[Magik85]

You'll see PC make that jump with stuff like Battlefield 6 BECAUSE PS5 and Series X exist, NOT because PC shit exist

Id say we didnt see that jump years earlier just because PS4 and Xbox One exist :-/
Consoles always restrain progress in graphics.

 

[GymWolf]

It is slightly better bud, but the reality is, that is something that is normal for the start of a generation to see launch games like that.

Not the whole fucking generation. So you can't make that comparison from Spiderman that released on PS3 to PS4.




"It has RT reflections and .... that's all we've seen"

Yea....and you could argue this about all current generation games on PC currently bud.... You'll just see those features even on high end PCs, used on PS5 Pro and Series X Pro etc.

How come we don't see any huge next gen looking titles on PC despite the Titan cards coming out in 2016? So the reality is, RT is not making games on PC look next gen anymore then what you see from that Spiderman launch game, but at the very least make the comparison when we have a Spiderman 2 in a new engine vs a dated one. So if you think Spiderman on PS5 looks slightly better, it simply supports that clearly you must already feel this way about those PC titles bud.

Notice that having more powerful hardware on the PS5 doesn't matter when using a dated engine, so what the fuck did you think was happening all theses years on PC? Oh now you have a problem with it? This is something you can only say about a launch title, on PC .....thats going to be THE WHOLE GENERATION! Current gen games that are simply "slightly better".

Try that "slightly better" argument with The Last Of Us 1 vs 2 or Spiderman PS3 vs PS4 instead of cherry picking a launch game. No one here can even name 1 fucking PC AAA exclusive title. I stand by my original comment bud, "ultimately none of that even matters if none of the companies you even mentioned are doing anything with that hardware outside of making their current gen games look slightly better"

You'll see PC make that jump with stuff like Battlefield 6 BECAUSE PS5 and Series X exist, NOT because PC shit exist, doesn't that same stuff exist right now? Where is their new engine? Titan Cards came out in 2016, where is DICE's exclusive PC title thats looking to max out those cards that can only be made with those cards?

I noticed you dodged that question.... PC follows the lead from console, modularity is their gift and curse. Not ENOUGH own those cards for any company to give 2 shits about making some AAA PC exclusive, its why you don't see any jump happening right now on PC with any company making some title that NEEDS a Titan card to run, but thats the same thing you'll see from PS5 PRO and Series X PRO, PC is simply just the "PRO" version of those consoles in terms of what its doing, its why you don't see any of the companies you mentioned putting out titles ONLY on PC that are AAA to even max out those cards. Its why you are dodging the question. It pretty much is the meat of this topic. So consoles will lead the industry in graphics? Very, very likely as they decided when that even starts. If PC leaded the industry in that, we'd have multiple companies that had AAA titles that only could be made on PC like we used to have back in the day. That died when MS entered gaming. XB having stuff like Doom 3, Half Life 2, Far Cry, KOTOR etc was the beginning of the end of that era.

Those days are over bud.

New drinking game boys, take a shot everytime you read the word "bud" in this post.

 

[EDMIX]

Don't think there will be a PS5 Pro given the price of the regular PS5.

Has nothing to do with the PS5 Pro. PS4 Pro didn't just exist because PS4 was cheap or something, it exist cause Sony and MS want to sell an upgrade and a market exist for it. You'll 100% see a PS5 Pro same with Series X.....X

Because the PC isn't a console. PCs are ongoing agnostic hardware. They aren't dependent on console generations.

Nope. Because developers don't see the value in making some PC AAA exclusive for the few that own those high end cards. They can only make such titles exist when they have PS or XB versions to make the bulk of that return. CDPR stated themselves that Witcher 3 literally would not exist if it wasn't for consoles for this obvious reason. They can't afford to make some "titan exclusive" because enough don't even own those cards to warrant such development.

Witcher 3 Wouldn't Exist Without Consoles

A lot of the news circulating around The Witcher 3 leading up to its release has been centered on downgrade-gate. In addition to the topic of downgrades, a lot of people have pointed fingers at the home consoles as the reason that the game has been downgraded. Turns out, the consoles are the...

www.cinemablend.com

.

Not true. Cyberpunk and many other games are going to have RTX regardless of whether the PS5/XSX has it or not.

The fact that this same developer openly confirmed Witcher 3 wouldn't exist if it wasn't for consoles, I highly doubt they'd be doing what they are doing with Cyberpunk 2077 with RT. They are doing that because they know they can sell to millions who will own PS5 and Series X.

So they "could" put it on PC, but they "MUST" add it on console, that is their bread winner.

Yes, they are for now. But that's not the point.

Nah, thats not a "for now" thing, its over....thats it. I see no future with PC having those type of titles like in those glory days because it cost too much to make those AAA titles and the MAJORITY of PC owners do not own Titan cards let alone the beast cards that are coming out in the future. The majority do how ever own consoles and will continue that with PS5, Series X etc. The majority of hardware that can run RT will exist on consoles, thats why those days are over. They have no ode to sell some PC exclusive to a really small install base when a PS5 and Series X have like 10 to 12 TFLOP GPUs and RT...IN 100% of their systems, not simply "some", but 100% the same hardware.

Thats why you are not longer going to see those glory days of PC AAA Exclusives.. Console will lead in that department because that is where developers make their money. Just cause you "could" make some ultra next gen looking title on PC, doesn't mean most will.

As to why you can't even name 1 title this generation that has even done that, yet you are questioning WHY I'm saying Consoles will lead in this department? You'll see a next gen Battlefield with their new tech when PS5 and Series X is out. Thats the way it is because console leads that industry, not PC.

PC had Titan cards with ZERO next gen looking leaps by developers, they just used it to do RT on current gen games, yet DICE shows us a teaser of BF6 when PS5 and Series X is announced? Doesn't sound like PC is leading that department to me...

 

[VFXVeteran]

Has nothing to do with the PS5 Pro. PS4 Pro didn't just exist because PS4 was cheap or something, it exist cause Sony and MS want to sell an upgrade and a market exist for it. You'll 100% see a PS5 Pro same with Series X.....X

Well, I'm glad one of us is confident. Source? Any ideas on what modifications could be done seeing as though clock speeds are at their max? What kind of GPU? Another one with more RAM? Cost? $899?

Nope. Because developers don't see the value in making some PC AAA exclusive for the few that own those high end cards. They can only make such titles exist when they have PS or XB versions to make the bulk of that return. CDPR stated themselves that Witcher 3 literally would not exist if it wasn't for consoles for this obvious reason. They can't afford to make some "titan exclusive" because enough don't even own those cards to warrant such development.

Witcher 3 Wouldn't Exist Without Consoles

A lot of the news circulating around The Witcher 3 leading up to its release has been centered on downgrade-gate. In addition to the topic of downgrades, a lot of people have pointed fingers at the home consoles as the reason that the game has been downgraded. Turns out, the consoles are the...

www.cinemablend.com

.

That has nothing to do with the graphics features in a game and pushing tech. I absolutely agree with not enough money to make a game specifically for the PC. But there are graphics features that are specifically only can be run on PC.

Nah, thats not a "for now" thing, its over....thats it. I see no future with PC having those type of titles like in those glory days because it cost too much to make those AAA titles and the MAJORITY of PC owners do not own Titan cards let alone the beast cards that are coming out in the future. The majority do how ever own consoles and will continue that with PS5, Series X etc. The majority of hardware that can run RT will exist on consoles, thats why those days are over. They have no ode to sell some PC exclusive to a really small install base when a PS5 and Series X have like 10 to 12 TFLOP GPUs and RT...IN 100% of their systems, not simply "some", but 100% the same hardware.

That's simply not true. Every RTX game won't be able to run ALL RT features on the consoles at the same time. Or have the same sampling rate as the consoles. Or the same texture resolution etc.. there are plenty of 3rd party games that prove that fact this entire generation. The PC wasn't hampered by the consoles with shadow resolution, texture filtering, texture sizes, RTX etc.. Metro and Control came out on consoles but they didn't have RTX like the PC. That took time and money used from the console budget and implemented for the PC.

As to why you can't even name 1 title this generation that has even done that, yet you are questioning WHY I'm saying Consoles will lead in this department? You'll see a next gen Battlefield with their new tech when PS5 and Series X is out. Thats the way it is because console leads that industry, not PC.

Consoles will simply not lead in graphics tech man. Game production? Sure. Not graphics tech.

 

[EDMIX]

Well, I'm glad one of us is confident. Source?

What was stated was speculation based on a market existing for those upgrades. I see neither Sony nor MS ignoring that base to make money from. Shit, do you have a source that they have no plans to continue that?

I absolutely agree with not enough money to make a game specifically for the PC. But there are graphics features that are specifically only can be run on PC.

Until a new generation starts. As to why RT is on PS5 and Series X. So if they don't have the money to make games specifically for PC, it shouldn't be a shock that most won't waste the energy to even use those GPUs to the max if they just need to make the minimum from consoles and port to PC. Its why you see RT used so little this gen. Yet next gen on PC, that will be the default because of the console ports that would exist.

Console leads the industry to even allow those features become more common and standard. You don't see ALL games support RT on PC now because they have little reason to care, they will have that reason when PS5 and Series X release and publishers are all racing to add it as a feature to sell their game. They can do that when 100% of PS5's and Series Xs can do RT, vs some PCs....



I also never said anything about some maxed out RTX title running on consoles that would beat a PC.

Consoles will simply not lead in graphics tech man. Game production? Sure. Not graphics tech.

That game production will lead in Graphics tech....

ie Battlefield 6's teaser was not released when those Titan cards came out, it was released when PS5 and Series X was announced. So when that game has a new engine, it will be because they can sell it on PS5 and Series X. Just cause they "could" do it on PC, doesn't mean THATS what is leading them to create that, making money on console is what is leading them to create that.

As to why you didn't see DICE making some brand new engine that could only run on a Titan card or something.

 

[DJT123]

Well, I'm glad one of us is confident. Source? Any ideas on what modifications could be done seeing as though clock speeds are at their max? What kind of GPU? Another one with more RAM? Cost? $899?



That has nothing to do with the graphics features in a game and pushing tech. I absolutely agree with not enough money to make a game specifically for the PC. But there are graphics features that are specifically only can be run on PC.




That's simply not true. Every RTX game won't be able to run ALL RT features on the consoles at the same time. Or have the same sampling rate as the consoles. Or the same texture resolution etc.. there are plenty of 3rd party games that prove that fact this entire generation. The PC wasn't hampered by the consoles with shadow resolution, texture filtering, texture sizes, RTX etc.. Metro and Control came out on consoles but they didn't have RTX like the PC. That took time and money used from the console budget and implemented for the PC.



Consoles will simply not lead in graphics tech man. Game production? Sure. Not graphics tech.

I doubt CDPR do NEED console sales to keep the lights on as a AAA dev. Not anymore. Witcher 3 sold gangbusters on PC alone (it's a great PC game.) They can theoretically create games with high production values only for PC and still do great business.

 

[Optimistic Gamer]

I was surprised to see a lot of comments in recent threads along the lines of "I'm going back to PC gaming." All you get are improved resolutions and framerates, the same way these consoles seem to be bringing better resolutions and framerates of similar games. You're not getting next level experiences only possible on that improved hardware. Maybe some people felt the Ray Tracing update for Metro did that for them, but those kind of upgrade events are outliers.

I think I'm actually the perfect counter-argument to this.

After having seen the lackluster offering for this "next gen" I decided to go back to pc and leave my console friends behind. I really need something "new" apart from remakes, rereleases and reimaginations of the same old games.
So, I got my HP Reverb G2 (VR Headset) coming in october and boy, check out the progress we made on those screens.



This is basically running 4k at 90hz (2160*2160 per eye). While consoles might be able to produce that for some games, most of these titles will never even be available there.
There are definitely "next level" experiences that can only be had on pc. Question is: Is that what you're into and can you afford it?

 

[Guilty_AI]

I doubt CDPR do NEED console sales to keep the lights on as a AAA dev. Not anymore. Witcher 3 sold gangbusters on PC alone (it's a great PC game.) They can theoretically create games with high production values only for PC and still do great business.

But from a business perspective its just dumb to skip consoles altogether for the sort of games they make.

 

[INC]

I'll take art design first tbh

 

[PropellerEar]

Well, I'm glad one of us is confident. Source?

I'm guessing... "Trust me bro" just like always with you?

 

[VFXVeteran]

I'm guessing... "Trust me bro" just like always with you?

Nope. I got sources. You can say you have sources and I can verify on my end. It's that simple.

 

[makaveli60]

What was stated was speculation based on a market existing for those upgrades. I see neither Sony nor MS ignoring that base to make money from. Shit, do you have a source that they have no plans to continue that?



Until a new generation starts. As to why RT is on PS5 and Series X. So if they don't have the money to make games specifically for PC, it shouldn't be a shock that most won't waste the energy to even use those GPUs to the max if they just need to make the minimum from consoles and port to PC. Its why you see RT used so little this gen. Yet next gen on PC, that will be the default because of the console ports that would exist.

Console leads the industry to even allow those features become more common and standard. You don't see ALL games support RT on PC now because they have little reason to care, they will have that reason when PS5 and Series X release and publishers are all racing to add it as a feature to sell their game. They can do that when 100% of PS5's and Series Xs can do RT, vs some PCs....



I also never said anything about some maxed out RTX title running on consoles that would beat a PC.



That game production will lead in Graphics tech....

ie Battlefield 6's teaser was not released when those Titan cards came out, it was released when PS5 and Series X was announced. So when that game has a new engine, it will be because they can sell it on PS5 and Series X. Just cause they "could" do it on PC, doesn't mean THATS what is leading them to create that, making money on console is what is leading them to create that.

As to why you didn't see DICE making some brand new engine that could only run on a Titan card or something.

Just let him be. No use arguing with this guy. I'm sure that he knows you are right in what you say but he is so insecure about his pc love that he just can't even admit this even to himself. I would feel some empathy for him as he longs for the past where PCs dictated gaming evolution if it weren't for his arrogant posts everywhere shitting on consoles. He still can't accept the fact that without pc exclusives, he can get even 100 TF cards but he will waste it on resolution and fps and some effects that are marginal compared to the power difference and price. And he also always brings up his industry relations... I have never seen anything from him that was not bullshit in the end. He was the one saying that PS5 will release with a Pro version on day one, for example. Industry relations my ass...