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Coronavirus Global Pandemic |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check

DeepBreath87

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Well I guess it depends on your definition of full PPE. We’re required to wear eye shields and masks at all times, and the nursing staff caring for COVID-19 patients are required to wear hair coverings and shoe coverings. But we don’t have people walking around with PAPRs and full hazmat suits.
We do PAPRs or N95 with all known positives. We have found level 3 masks with face shields are insufficient. We tried it at first and it did not go well. But we’ve been doing full airborne PPE in our ICU since March and there hasn’t been one staff member testing positive from the unit.
 

Joe T.

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Thats Richmond, which is heavily Chinese. The number of people wearing masks in other cities is much lower. Most are not masked in Metrotown for example. And again, the point is that it hasn’t been recommended and that the language from public health remains that masking is an adjunct, not a “silver bullet” as some here are putting it.
That checks out, but it also appears outdated - about half the people in Metrotown wearing masks, more or less, in a video I saw from the start of June changed to most people wearing them in a video filmed three weeks ago here (ignoring the restaurant area for obvious reasons).

The reason you may see some here refer to it as a silver bullet is because that's how masks are presented to the public when you strip away the nuance as those communicating these messages often do. NBC Nightly News literally referred to masks as a "magic bullet" at the start of one of their broadcasts:

"What if there was a magic bullet that could bring covid under control in two months or less? Well according to the head of the CDC we're already looking at it. Dr. Robert Redfield saying if we all wore masks, well, I'd likely be telling a very different story than the one we're sadly leading with tonight and that is covid spreading at its fastest pace yet." -Lester Holt, July 15th

The language is a bit slippery for legal reasons, but the message was unmistakable. This is how the propaganda artists in mainstream media work and their messaging gets adopted by millions in large part thanks to confirmation bias and the polarized state of politics. The vast majority of people that consume mainstream news don't dig beyond what they're told, assuming they even go beyond the headlines (studies years ago showed almost 60% don't).

I'm not sure how this works elsewhere around the world, but in the US and Canada the mainstream media - news and entertainment both - has spent decades conditioning people to dismiss conservative sources. These last few years that's gone a step further and all dissenting opinions are merely viewed as conspiracy theorists. To fall back on the above comparison again (re: Russian collusion), Congressman Devin Nunes was labeled a conspiracy theorist by the opposition party and mainstream sources when he revealed the abuses of the legal process for legitimizing the investigation into Trump - except he was right, those abuses were real.

Our sources of information are compromised, corrupted. They don't have the public interest in mind, especially not when their irresponsible reporting is pitting us against each other. Divide and conquer. As we argue over what is essentially meaningless in the grand scheme of things (re: public mask mandates) - the evidence making that clear enough - there are bigger fish working to capitalize on this pandemic and we're not paying them any attention. Like how vaccinations will probably be required for everything from air travel, to concerts/sports games and even entry to office buildings. They will sell us back that sense of safety we discarded over a mountain of lies and exaggerations.
 

Leyasu

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You've got to decide for yourself. As you just posted, your expert-guided government is failing you. Don't just blindly buy into anything that anyone says simply because of their credentials.

Throughout history, there has been no shortage of "experts" that were found to be full of shit and motivated to deceive the public for a variety of reasons.
Your post is very apt for France.

The experts that have "guided" France up until last week have acted as nothing more than paid mouthpieces. At the end of May the shaky old fossils went on tv and told everyone that sending their kids back to school was not a problem. Thankfully it is true that kids are not really affected by COVID and only a very small percentage have serious conditions. In the interview they claimed that kids are not carriers and won't contaminate each other and bring it home. They then said that opening the schools was an experiment to see if would increase infections (just after stating categorically that it wouldn't), then said that it would not be a good idea for grandparents to pick up the kids from school, and one shaky old cunt even said that he wouldn't be seeing his grandkids any time soon.. All that mixed messaging in one interview and not one news outlet or one journalist raked em over the coals for it.

They have doubled down on the governments messaging since the beginning, and have just agreed with the government on reducing quarantines for infected people or those that have been in close contact with those confirmed from 14 days to 7 days.

But on wednesday this week they finally woke up to the fact that their credibility is failing fast and said that the government need to take action to curb the spread before it gets too late... Two days later the government spoke and announced that they would be doing exactly fuck all.

Going back to mask wearing, at the beginning of the lockdown in France I read an article by Harvard that was wrote after the first SARS outbreak back in the early 00s. In the article they stated that during the outbreak, mask wearers were around 70% less likely to be infected than those not wearing masks. I have looked for the article a few times but can't find it.

Thinking about things logically. If an infected person wears a mask that stops a % of the droplets from being exhaled, and another person wears a mask that also stops a % of the aerosols from being inhaled, then it stands to reason that wearing a mask could help with the spread. Obviously it is not 100% efficient, but it could mean a lowering of new contaminations and over time reduce the reproduction rate.... Every little helps at the moment.

I put on a mask everytime I am in a shop or in close contact with others.
 
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DeepBreath87

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Your post is very apt for France.

The experts that have "guided" France up until last week have acted as nothing more than paid mouthpieces. At the end of May the shaky old fossils went on tv and told everyone that sending their kids back to school was not a problem. Thankfully it is true that kids are not really affected by COVID and only a very small percentage have serious conditions. In the interview they claimed that kids are not carriers and won't contaminate each other and bring it home. They then said that opening the schools was an experiment to see if would increase infections (just after stating categorically that it wouldn't), then said that it would not be a good idea for grandparents to pick up the kids from school, and one shaky old cunt even said that he wouldn't be seeing his grandkids any time soon.. All that mixed messaging in one interview and not one news outlet or one journalist raked em over the coals for it.

They have doubled down on the governments messaging since the beginning, and have just agreed with the government on reducing quarantines for infected people or those that have been in close contact with those confirmed from 14 days to 7 days.

But on wednesday this week they finally woke up to the fact that their credibility is failing fast and said that the government need to take action to curb the spread before it gets too late... Two days later the government spoke and announced that they would be doing exactly fuck all.

Going back to mask wearing, at the beginning of the lockdown in France I read an article by Harvard that was wrote after the first SARS outbreak back in the early 00s. In the article they stated that during the outbreak, mask wearers were around 70% less likely to be infected than those not wearing masks. I have looked for the article a few times but can't find it.

Thinking about things logically. If an infected person wears a mask that stops a % of the droplets from being exhaled, and another person wears a mask that also stops a % of the aerosols from being inhaled, then it stands to reason that wearing a mask could help with the spread. Obviously it is not 100% efficient, but it could mean a lowering of new contaminations and over time reduce the reproduction rate.... Every little helps at the moment.

I put on a mask everytime I am in a shop or in close contact with others.
My patience is waning for the mask wearing thin. It doesn’t seem like it is making a big difference. But I will still wear one for now in situations wear it’s appropriate. Basically what you said: in stores or close quarters. I am required to wear one at work as it’s a hospital. But I don’t wear one at the gym or outside.
 
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Monsterkillah

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Well.well.well.seems like theres a big anti mask movement here...

This is interesting...

Trump supporters? Flat earthers ? Something to do with Politics mm...? Or anti vaccine group? BLM ?

This is fascinating
 
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Monsterkillah

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You've got to decide for yourself. As you just posted, your expert-guided government is failing you. Don't just blindly buy into anything that anyone says simply because of their credentials.

Throughout history, there has been no shortage of "experts" that were found to be full of shit and motivated to deceive the public for a variety of reasons.
"Youve got to decide for yourself"

Aka....you dont even know what do to with it..

You advocate people here not to wear mask..but you dont have the solution for it...

Am i right ?
 
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DeepBreath87

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Well.well.well.seems like theres a big anti mask movement here...

This is interesting...

Trump supporters? Flat earthers ? Something to do with Politics mm...? Or anti vaccine group? BLM ?

This is fascinating
I’m not anti mask. I just want to see some evidence they really do enough to justify their use. Right now, it doesn’t seem like they are very effective at all. Infections rates seem pretty much unchanged regardless of masks.

I wear one. But the constant moralizing about something that hasn’t demonstrated any clear evidence it does very much seems a bit ridiculous. They have yet to produce one broad study showing masks have a measurable impact on infection rates, at least that I have seen.
 
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Monsterkillah

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You're claiming, or at least appear to be trying to claim, that wearing a mask prevents the wearer from wearing the virus. That has never been true unless it's an N95 properly fitted or N99. Even those diagrams you showed show absolutely nothing about how mask wearing prevents the user from catching the virus.
I never claimed wearing mask give you 100 prevention

You made that claim by yourself
 
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diffusionx

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I’m not anti mask. I just want to see some evidence they really do enough to justify their use. Right now, it doesn’t seem like they are very effective at all. Infections rates seem pretty much unchanged regardless of masks.

I wear one. But the constant moralizing about something that hasn’t demonstrated any clear evidence it does very much seems a bit ridiculous. They have yet to produce one broad study showing masks have a measurable impact on infection rates, at least that I have seen.
The problem is that the virus is this thing we have no control of, and people are scared because of media fear mongering.

The masks give people the idea that they have some control over this situation. Note that when outbreaks come the first line of thinking is oh, who didn't wear a mask, when in reality, the thinking should be, well the virus is doing what the virus is going to do. But that is not something most people can handle.
 

DeepBreath87

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The problem is that the virus is this thing we have no control of, and people are scared because of media fear mongering.

The masks give people the idea that they have some control over this situation. Note that when outbreaks come the first line of thinking is oh, who didn't wear a mask, when in reality, the thinking should be, well the virus is doing what the virus is going to do. But that is not something most people can handle.
I pretty much agree. Modern people have the illusion of control over so much. But this has shattered that idea.
 
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Zefah

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"Youve got to decide for yourself"

Aka....you dont even know what do to with it..

You advocate people here not to wear mask..but you dont have the solution for it...

Am i right ?
Me personally? I wear a mask when going to the supermarket or other commercial locations/cramped spaces out of courtesy. I have no delusions that it's protecting me from anything, though.
 
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Zefah

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I never claimed wearing mask give you 100 prevention

You made that claim by yourself
This whole thing started because you posted a story that claimed everyone but those with masks on in a Starbucks got infected with COVID-19, heavily suggesting that the mask is what protected them, all in an attempt to play up the protective benefit of masks to the wearer.
 
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Monsterkillah

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This whole thing started because you posted a story that claimed everyone but those with masks on in a Starbucks got infected with COVID-19, heavily suggesting that the mask is what protected them, all in an attempt to play up the protective benefit of masks to the wearer.
But that story INDEED is a further proof/evidence that wearing mask does gives protection to its wearer

As comparatively to those who does not wear it

So im not sure what are you complaining here

As for yourself..who seems to opose the idea to wear mask protection..but the you said u always wear mask when u go to grocieries ?

So your ideas is that...youre against wearing using mask..but then you wear one when you re going outside?

Which makes me confused on that part
 
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Zefah

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But that story INDEED is a further proof/evidence that wearing mask does gives protection to its wearer

As comparatively to those who does not wear it

So im not sure what are you complaining here
No it's not. Did you read the story? It does not say how many patrons came through in total, just the size of the cluster (27). It looks like the area with the air conditioning unit was on the second floor of the structure and we do not know if the employees ever went to that area. We also do not know how many patrons (and especially those infected) consistently wore masks during their stay.
 

Monsterkillah

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No it's not. Did you read the story? It does not say how many patrons came through in total, just the size of the cluster (27). It looks like the area with the air conditioning unit was on the second floor of the structure and we do not know if the employees ever went to that area. We also do not know how many patrons (and especially those infected) consistently wore masks during their stay.
Surely a starbuck employee will have to get into contact with some customer one way or another
 

Zefah

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OK, I found the original story that Bloomberg is reporting on. Reading it via Google translate to Japanese (because Korean to English sucks)


Here are the details:

On the 8th, Patron A (female, 30s) enters the location and orders a drink on the 1st floor before going up to the 2nd floor seating area. The next day, she began feeling Coronavirus symptoms. On the 11th, she took a test. On the 12th, she got back a positive result.

During the 2 hours and 30 minutes she was in the Starbucks, they believe 27 other patrons also became infected. Almost all were on the 2nd floor, but one grade school aged child who became infected only went up to the 2nd floor briefly to use the restroom.

The 2nd floor space had 6 air conditioning units that were in operation circulating the air to keep the area cool. The article also claims that air conditioning units like this have been shown to dramatically increase the range and spread of infectious particles.

It does say that the 4 employees who were not infected frequently visited the 2nd floor space to clean up.

The article does not, however, say how many people visited the Starbucks in the 2.5-hour window (assuming that Patron A was even the one to introduce the virus to the area). That seems like a critical factor when determining if the masks did anything.
 
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Israel is losing control of the virus, exceeding 4000 cases a day.

There has been another 2 week strict lock down imposed (can not leave more than 500 metres from home etc) for 2 weeks, followed by another 2 weeks of less strict lockdown measures ahead of and throughout the Jewish high holy days.

I'm moving there in January so this isn't great news.

 
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Monsterkillah

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OK, I found the original story that Bloomberg is reporting on. Reading it via Google translate to Japanese (because Korean to English sucks)


Here are the details:

On the 8th, Patron A (female, 30s) enters the location and orders a drink on the 1st floor before going up to the 2nd floor seating area. The next day, she began feeling Coronavirus symptoms. On the 11th, she took a test. On the 12th, she got back a positive result.

During the 2 hours and 30 minutes she was in the Starbucks, they believe 27 other patrons also became infected. Almost all were on the 2nd floor, but one grade school aged child who became infected only went up to the 2nd floor briefly to use the restroom.

The 2nd floor space had 6 air conditioning units that were in operation circulating the air to keep the area cool. The article also claims that air conditioning units like this have been shown to dramatically increase the range and spread of infectious particles.

It does say that the 4 employees who were not infected frequently visited the 2nd floor space to clean up.

The article does not, however, say how many people visited the Starbucks in the 2.5-hour window (assuming that Patron A was even the one to introduce the virus to the area). That seems like a critical factor when determining if the masks did anything.
To my understanding you seems quite convince on wearing mask on your dailly activity

But at the same time you keep questioning the benefit of wearing mask itself as a safety precaution

That is the confusing part for me
 
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Zefah

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To my understanding you seems quite convince on wearing mask on your dailly activity

But at the same time you keep questioning the benefit of wearing mask itself as a safety precaution

That is the confusing part for me
It stands to reason that wearing masks would help prevent droplets from propelling into the air and directly hitting other people/surfaces. It make sense, and it's been proven basically. With that said, there have not been any studies to show if the droplet blockage is enough to significantly reduce Coronavirus infection. We just assume it is. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that front.

Even still, this is only an argument for wearing masks to protect others, not to protect oneself. This is why I said I am fine with wearing a mask in cramped/commercial spaces out of courtesy to others. There is zero evidence that wearing a cheap mask or face covering is going to prevent you from inhaling infectious particles.

The reason I'm focusing on your story is because, given the information we have, it seems more like an indictment of air conditioning systems than an example that proves the protective properties of a mask against Coronavirus infections.

I mean, what would you say if there were more than 100 patrons (probably a low estimate) in that critical 2.5-hour window? That would mean 27/104 (100 patrons + 4 employees) people were infected. We also do not know if any of them also wore masks the entire time. Either way, we simply do not have enough information to claim that those 4 employees did not get infected *because* of their masks.
 
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carlosrox

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Everybody I know is dying all around me. I don't know who's infected and who's not. I'm terrified of this pandemic. Maybe if I say pandemic a few more times I can feel special, like I'm a part of something. Pandemic. Pandemic. Did you know we're in a Pandemic? Let me say it again just so it really sinks in. Pandemic. All the cool kids are just throwing out "something something pandemic" these days,I better do it too!

Bodies litter the streets. Mass Graves everywhere. Everyone I know agreed for all their dead family members to be tossed in a mass dump. They're even burning the bodies here but it's for the best. There's just too many infected and dead everywhere.


We're all in this together. Stay the fuck away from me, don't touch me, I'll be inside watching Netflix and ordering Skip The Dishes.

I'll be safe behind tape, sometimes wearing my mask, and hiding under my bed, all while crying about stats I look up on the internet.

When my honest and incorruptible government, politicians, and the health care industry all tell me it's safe, then it will be magically safe.

We are all COVID. Praise be to GOD COVID. Long live the new flesh. Long live COVID.

My life for you. MY LIFE FOR COVID!!!!
 
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WoJ

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But that story INDEED is a further proof/evidence that wearing mask does gives protection to its wearer

As comparatively to those who does not wear it

So im not sure what are you complaining here

As for yourself..who seems to opose the idea to wear mask protection..but the you said u always wear mask when u go to grocieries ?

So your ideas is that...youre against wearing using mask..but then you wear one when you re going outside?

Which makes me confused on that part
Most places require masks to get into stores now. And as for your other point that we are drawing conclusions that you are trying to insinuate wearing masks protects the wearer from getting the virus you also posted a series of pictures of how droplets spread/not spread when wearing/not wearing masks and used that as an argument to support how wearing a mask helps prevent you from getting the virus. If I am misinterpretting please explain.

As for your comments about "flat earthers" being the same as mask deniers. Show me the definitive agreed upon peer reviewed scientific studies that say mask usage works (and explain to me why the actual data doesn't seem to support that idea) and I'll come around to that point of view. As it stands I'll draw my opinions based on studies that have validity, and my interpretation of the actual data which currently runs counter to the mask narrative we are being fed.
 

carlosrox

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Everybody asking questions is a cONspIraCy thEOriSt.

Did they vote for Trump? No? Watch Fox News? No? Oh they must believe the earth is flat then. No to that too! Shit!

I can't come up with anymore strawman arguments, so now it's time to block them cuz I can't think of anything else to say.
 

cryptoadam

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If you don’t trust the numbers from one dictatorship, why would you trust the numbers from another?
its possible Belarus numbers are being under counted, but I doubt by much. Unless they are hiding truck loads of old people somewhere I doubt their numbers are in the thousands/10's of thousands. And with all the attention on Belarus and the world wide condemnation if there was mass people dying and being hidden it would be a perfect time to come out with it.

Its just like how everyone says Africa must be undercounting or hiding all their deaths. For now I will go with their numbers that might be slightly undercounted but not by a huge factor.

And BTW China is a whole other beast, that can get away with denying Muslim concentration camps. But I still don't think 100's of thousands are dead in China, and their case numbers are so low because they don't count asymptomatic people, and the opposite of the the West where they incentivized to have no cases (with their lives) while in the US and the West you get more money and power the more cases you find.
 

cryptoadam

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Israel is losing control of the virus, exceeding 4000 cases a day.

There has been another 2 week strict lock down imposed (can not leave more than 500 metres from home etc) for 2 weeks, followed by another 2 weeks of less strict lockdown measures ahead of and throughout the Jewish high holy days.

I'm moving there in January so this isn't great news.

Mazel Tov on making Aliyah.

They will get it under control eventually. Wonder if all these anti-Bibi protest have anything to do with it.
 
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Leyasu

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Wuhan, China this month (photos from Daily Mail, CBC recently aired video of packed classrooms, too):





That is what happens when you tame this. Normal life can resume.

If the west had taken it as seriously as the east, we could have been like this today perhaps?
 

Joe T.

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...then they weren't.

The "green zone" status is completely irrelevant, this coronavirus is here to stay like the others before it. Just as it quietly made its way through NZ it'll also quietly make its way through China. Learn to live with it the same way we've lived with everything else on this planet.

We've learned it's far less deadly than we were originally led to believe. We've learned testing accuracy and case reporting is a mess. We've learned the leaders/experts claiming to be following the science are incapable of defending their positions when challenged. We've learned too much to still be living in fear. It's time to own up to mistakes and move on.

That is what happens when you tame this. Normal life can resume.

If the west had taken it as seriously as the east, we could have been like this today perhaps?
NZ went that route and it didn't seem to help Auckland, nothing normal about going back into lock down mode for a few dozen positive cases. China's locked down smaller areas over the summer, but something tells me they won't double down in larger cities/provinces like NZ did. They're too interested in pushing their economy forward and past the US.

We're all in this mess because of the way they mishandled this and they'll never escape that. There was/is a massive amount of propaganda pushing this pandemic, much of it appearing to come from China and fueling the counterproductive lock down idea. Had they been open and forthcoming with information this could have all been prevented. They deserve no praise whatsoever, only condemnation.
 

sinnergy

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That is what happens when you tame this. Normal life can resume.

If the west had taken it as seriously as the east, we could have been like this today perhaps?
Yup been saying this since the start , but in this thread you won’t be heard , there are now only like minded posters in here who are against Covid rules by evil governments.

The West really dropped the ball, as Asians all knew what SARS and MERS could do. Easy lessons could have been learned from them and past pandemics but we The west ignored it all.

Now it’s time to sit on the blisters for a couple of years.
 
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Leyasu

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...



NZ went that route and it didn't seem to help Auckland, nothing normal about going back into lock down mode for a few dozen positive cases. China's locked down smaller areas over the summer, but something tells me they won't double down in larger cities/provinces like NZ did. They're too interested in pushing their economy forward and past the US.

We're all in this mess because of the way they mishandled this and they'll never escape that. There was/is a massive amount of propaganda pushing this pandemic, much of it appearing to come from China and fueling the counterproductive lock down idea. Had they been open and forthcoming with information this could have all been prevented. They deserve no praise whatsoever, only condemnation.
But it has and did help NZ and China. Lockdown until new cases are easily followed/traced and therefore manageable. Once you are there, you can do localised and smaller lockdowns when you have flare up.. These localised ones in China are always done in conjunction with MASS testing in the area to find out who has it so that they can be isolated. None of this is rocket science.

The world is in a mess because of China for sure. But they have demonstrated to the world that this can be tamed. They are also not to blame for the wests months and months of not taking it seriously, or squandering gains that they made through early lockdowns or just plain old mismanagement.
 
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DeepBreath87

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But it has and did help NZ and China. Lockdown until new cases are easily followed/traced and therefore manageable. Once you are there, you can do localised and smaller lockdowns when you have flare up.. These localised ones in China are always done in conjunction with MASS testing in the area to find out who has it so that they can be isolated. None of this is rocket science.

The world is in a mess because of China for sure. But they have demonstrated to the world that this can be tamed. They are also not to blame for the wests months and months of not taking it seriously, or squandering gains that they made through early lockdowns or just plain old mismanagement.
And all you have to do is submit to periodic lockdowns and forced testing until the virus is no longer exists....
 
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diffusionx

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The idea that this virus can be or needs to be “tamed” is faulty. All of this stuff is complete bullshit.

And anyone who thinks that all we needed was more submission to government authorities like Cuomo are Fauci and all would be fine are fooling themselves. Friendly reminder that everything they’ve been telling us this entire time is a lie. Case counts are a lie (tests are overly sensitive and inaccurate), death counts are a lie (of Covid vs. with Covid), fatality and hospitalization rates are inaccurate (CFR is a made up number), everything.
 
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sinnergy

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Mazel Tov on making Aliyah.

They will get it under control eventually. Wonder if all these anti-Bibi protest have anything to do with it.
I loved Aaliyah , to bad she died early , awesome RNB singer 🤣
The war on COVID is like the war on terror: bullshit.
Except you can’t escape this , and have to deal with it 😜🤪
 
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Saruhashi

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I feel like lockdown is like bulding a wall to stop a wave. The wall will eventually go down and you will get wet no matter what.
The lockdown at least should have bought some time.

To get testing up to speed.
To get contact tracing systems set up.
To prepare for a future rush on hospitals.
To develop effective treatments.

Then once you've done that you encourage people to wash hands and be mindful of their distancing and you hope to build some herd immunity.

Instead it just feels like some people want "lockdown until there is a vaccine" but it's not realistic.

Eventually the damage done by the lockdown costs lives too and its a balancing act. If the virus kills X number of people and the measures taken ultimately result in Y number of deaths then if Y is greater than X it simply wasn't worth it.

The number of deaths and hospitalizations is key here. Yet so many still focus on cases.

So even when deaths are down people are still touting the grand total cases as a reason to stay under restrictions.

It would be great to be totally wrong on this but I reckon things are not going back to normal after all this.
 
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cryptoadam

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Ignore Cernos snark.

But Fauci is on the D and C train.

Like Hogan always said brother take your vitamins.
 
Aug 28, 2019
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They work for the flu so of course they work for this, it's amazing how many common sense remedies aren't allowed to be spoken of, like how they tried to pretend Hydroxychloriquine was some unknown quantity we couldn't verify how dangerous it is despite decades of use.