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Coronavirus Global Pandemic |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check

prag16

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I have noticed a pattern of aggression in these threads from the lunatic right on gaf.

I never fucking advocated any of the shit you just wrote. What I did imply is that some honesty from our governments would be better and invest a bit of money in making sure that the spread of Covid amongst kids is minimized and the risk to their parents also.
You didn't explicitly say that, and you probably wouldn't advocate for that. However others have come extremely close to advocating for that, and it is the result of the policies espoused by those who are "taking this seriously" in many places.
 

Breakage

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I was out doing my weekly shoppiy yesterday (south London), and I saw people still sitting inside pubs and restaurants, chatting and dining in close proximity to one another.
London buses are supposed to have a 30 passenger limit with some exceptions at the driver's discretion. I'm pretty sure the buses I was on yesterday had way more than 30 people onboard.
My local shopping centre was packed as if it were an ordinary day. It wouldn't surprise me if London's case numbers go up significantly in the next few weeks.
 

diffusionx

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Thousands of Britons who suffer heart attacks and strokes are dying at home instead of seeking medical treatment, a new study has found, as new government figures show 75,000 are projected to die as a result of lockdown measures.
Total “COVID“ deaths in the UK so far: about 41000.

The government has used its power to destroy far more and kill far more people than this virus ever could.
 
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DeepBreath87

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Total “COVID“ deaths in the UK so far: about 41000.

The government has used its power to destroy far more and kill far more people than this virus ever could.
I have decided that so much of what we have done is pure hubris. People love the idea they are in control, even when they are not.
 

hariseldon

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Just had a look at Sweden's stats. With a population of 10 million they've had 5880 deaths. The UK, with a population of 67 million, has recorded 41971 deaths. That puts the UK at 626 deaths per million population and Sweden at 588. It's a little crude as there are question marks over deaths WITH covid vs deaths OF covid, but let's take the numbers as read. The UK locked down and lost 20% of its GDP with some bounce back (still in progress but with a 2nd lockdown looming is it going to be even worse?) while Sweden lost 8.3%. So 13% to not actually save any lives, and likely cost thousands due to missed operations, not to mention the enormous social cost of a broken economy and a bankrupt government. Sweden's debt decreased in the 12 months to July 2020. Honestly our children and grandchildren are going to absolutely fucking hate us for what we've done.
 

WoJ

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Just had a look at Sweden's stats. With a population of 10 million they've had 5880 deaths. The UK, with a population of 67 million, has recorded 41971 deaths. That puts the UK at 626 deaths per million population and Sweden at 588. It's a little crude as there are question marks over deaths WITH covid vs deaths OF covid, but let's take the numbers as read. The UK locked down and lost 20% of its GDP with some bounce back (still in progress but with a 2nd lockdown looming is it going to be even worse?) while Sweden lost 8.3%. So 13% to not actually save any lives, and likely cost thousands due to missed operations, not to mention the enormous social cost of a broken economy and a bankrupt government. Sweden's debt decreased in the 12 months to July 2020. Honestly our children and grandchildren are going to absolutely fucking hate us for what we've done.
BUT THE SCIENCE!!!!! THE SCIENCE SAID WE MUST LOCK DOWN!!!! IT'S THE ONLY WAY!!!!!!
 

cryptoadam

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Plague Doctor

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Just had a look at Sweden's stats. With a population of 10 million they've had 5880 deaths. The UK, with a population of 67 million, has recorded 41971 deaths. That puts the UK at 626 deaths per million population and Sweden at 588. It's a little crude as there are question marks over deaths WITH covid vs deaths OF covid, but let's take the numbers as read. The UK locked down and lost 20% of its GDP with some bounce back (still in progress but with a 2nd lockdown looming is it going to be even worse?) while Sweden lost 8.3%. So 13% to not actually save any lives, and likely cost thousands due to missed operations, not to mention the enormous social cost of a broken economy and a bankrupt government. Sweden's debt decreased in the 12 months to July 2020. Honestly our children and grandchildren are going to absolutely fucking hate us for what we've done.
Future generations? Fuck em.

We must make absolutely sure no one dies of anything ever right now! And then we need no less than 20 vaccines and 50 treatments that every doctor ever agrees will prevent any deaths with 120% certainty.

Now stay in your room and fucking order things online. Get a slot for your door. Sanitize the air.


If you lose your job, your business, or behind on your bills... well that's your fault. You chose Capitalism and you should have picked a better system.
 
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DeepBreath87

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Future generations? Fuck em.

We must make absolutely sure no one dies of anything ever right now! And then we need no less than 20 vaccines and 50 treatments that every doctor ever agrees will prevent any deaths with 120% certainty.

Now stay in your room and fucking order things online. Get a slot for your door. Sanitize the air.


If you lose your job, your business, or behind on your bills... well that's your fault. You choose Capitalism and you should have picked a better system.
And make sure if you do have to go out, you recite the correct slogans and say their names. That is the only accepted reason to be on the streets.
 
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diffusionx

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Threads here, click to see everything...


This stuff needs to be talked about more, because a lot of people (including some in this thread) have come to believe that the government made the right decisions, they were following science, they had no choice, these things worked and will continue to work, etc. No no no. None of that is true, it was just panicked, scared, weak governments going full authoritarian and people letting it happen. It was always fear and panic driving the process, not science.


Just had a look at Sweden's stats. With a population of 10 million they've had 5880 deaths. The UK, with a population of 67 million, has recorded 41971 deaths. That puts the UK at 626 deaths per million population and Sweden at 588. It's a little crude as there are question marks over deaths WITH covid vs deaths OF covid, but let's take the numbers as read. The UK locked down and lost 20% of its GDP with some bounce back (still in progress but with a 2nd lockdown looming is it going to be even worse?) while Sweden lost 8.3%. So 13% to not actually save any lives, and likely cost thousands due to missed operations, not to mention the enormous social cost of a broken economy and a bankrupt government. Sweden's debt decreased in the 12 months to July 2020. Honestly our children and grandchildren are going to absolutely fucking hate us for what we've done.
We KNOW lockdown don't work, we know this for a fact. We KNOW all this stuff is bogus. So it's a real question why the UK is deciding to re-lockdown everything. It can't be because they think it will work, because it won't and they know it.
 
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cryptoadam

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Somewhere along the line everything was thrown out and everyone decided to follow Chinas model in Wuhan, which at this time I actually question if it happened. 50-90% of the videos we were seeing posted in the first few pages of this thread were probably fake or disinformation.

I remember someone posting something a while back about how China pressured Italy when things were popping off there, and then everyone just followed like a bunch of lemmings.

15 days to stop the spread became until no one dies and no one even noticed.
 

Breakage

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These Brits are acting as if we're not in the midst of a pandemic:
Social distancing goes out the window as London streets and stations are mobbed by revellers after pubs and restaurants all shut at 10pm - and Uber prices surge
 
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FireFly

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We KNOW lockdown don't work, we know this for a fact. We KNOW all this stuff is bogus. So it's a real question why the UK is deciding to re-lockdown everything. It can't be because they think it will work, because it won't and they know it.
The UK isn't re-locking down everything. They are changing the closing time for bars and restaurants and limiting the number of people allowed to gather together.
 

diffusionx

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The UK isn't re-locking down everything. They are changing the closing time for bars and restaurants and limiting the number of people allowed to gather together.
So what is going to happen is that bars are going to be more crowded until 10pm, then people are going to crowd the streets and crowd their homes. Nobody is going to limit gatherings.

Unless you seriously think that closing bars and restaurants will lower the numbers, which are mostly fake, what’s the point?
 
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diffusionx

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Somewhere along the line everything was thrown out and everyone decided to follow Chinas model in Wuhan, which at this time I actually question if it happened. 50-90% of the videos we were seeing posted in the first few pages of this thread were probably fake or disinformation.
Our restrictions/lockdowns have gone on far longer than Wuhan’s officially stated ones and the misery has no sign of letting up (except for Florida). And yea it would be super easy for the Chinese government to film itself welding a few doors shut or setting up a few temperature checkpoints.

I go on Cuomo’s Twitter and it is comment after comment of scared babies crying about how we can’t open restaurants, can’t open schools, have to stay home. Meanwhile these were probably the same people talking about how tough New York is.

The sad fact is a lot of people are absolutely fine with these arrangements and will be fine with it going on indefinitely. They want a big daddy in their life to tell them what to do and Cuomo not just understands this but is happy to fill that role.
 

FireFly

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So what is going to happen is that bars are going to be more crowded until 10pm, then people are going to crowd the streets and crowd their homes. Nobody is going to limit gatherings.

Unless you seriously think that closing bars and restaurants will lower the numbers, which are mostly fake, what’s the point?
Well we'll see what happens, and if people obey the limits.

But my point is that bars and restaurants are not closing, nor are gyms, cinemas, casinos, hairdressers, beauty salons etc. So the UK is not going for another lockdown.
 

WoJ

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The one thing in all this I am still trying to grasp is what percentage of this is being driven by stupidity and narcissism and what percentage is being driven by leaders being power hungry.

There's no question that these governors and world leaders have some degree of narcissism and self importance about them. You don't attempt to run a country or state without that. But that doesn't necessarily mean they are overly smart. At what point are these decisions being made strictly on the basis of power, or strictly on the basis of stupidity? I know it's easy to assume they want power, and I get it. That's a relatively safe assumption. But there's also something to be said about not underestimating human stupidity.
 
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Breakage

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These people are gonna encourage the UK government to go even further with its lockdown measures:
(Liverpool, England):
 
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These people are gonna encourage the UK government to go even further with its lockdown measures:
(Liverpool, England):
Seeing as there has been over the last 4-5 months BLM protests, Anti lock down protests.... tens of thousands flocking to beaches, thousands gathering for liverpool winning the league...throngs of people every weekend in the likes of Soho, London...not to mention the ridiculous 'social distancing' in supermarkets where most aisles barley meet the 6ft requirment...with barely a rise in infections never mind deaths. Would you see new lockdown measures as justified?
 
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Joe T.

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1 million death now is that official
Nothing about this pandemic is "official" to me until someone can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that all positive tests are specifically isolating SARS-CoV-2 and only SARS-CoV-2 while it remains infectious, none of this dead/fragmented virus business that has sent hundreds of millions of healthy people into isolation.

2020 was expected to see over 60 million deaths before this pandemic entered the equation and it can be argued the response has done more damage than the virus itself.
 

Breakage

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Seeing as there has been over the last 4-5 months BLM protests, Anti lock down protests.... tens of thousands flocking to beaches, thousands gathering for liverpool winning the league...throngs of people every weekend in the likes of Soho, London...not to mention the ridiculous 'social distancing' in supermarkets where most aisles barley meet the 6ft requirment...with barely a rise in infections never mind deaths. Would you see new lockdown measures as justified?
Well we're going into the colder period of the year which makes transmission easier. The number of positive cases is going up (although today's figure was slightly lower). The point is what these people are doing isn't gonna improve the situation. These images and videos will only make those in power think that the public aren't taking the virus seriously.
 
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Well we're going into the colder period of the year which makes transmission easier. The number of positive cases is going up (although today's figure was slightly lower). The point is what these people are doing isn't gonna improve the situation. These images and videos will only make those in power think that the public aren't taking the virus seriously.
Maybe some of the reasons people are not taking it seriously is the constant mixed messaging, low cases rates...even lower death rates, the constant pyschological scare tactic reinforcment policies of the goverment and msm, the ever increasing members of the medical profession speaking out against the offical narrative....and people's natural desire to assemble and be in close contact with other humans?
 

Kimahri

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I've been diligently washing and disinfecting my hands for the past 6 months now, but I'm starting to really not give a shit anymore. I might just stop bothering.

The spread is at an all time high in my country. Papers repeatedly churn out headlines like "worst week so far", 'record numbers" etc, etc.

There's just one thing missing from the equation.

Nobody's dying. People are hardly even getting truly sick for it. So more people have it than ever, but less people are getting severely ill.

Why doesn't anybody talk about this?
 
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I've been diligently washing and disinfecting my hands for the past 6 months now, but I'm starting to really not give a shit anymore. I might just stop bothering.

The spread is at an all time high in my country. Papers repeatedly churn out headlines like "worst week so far", 'record numbers" etc, etc.

There's just one thing missing from the equation.

Nobody's dying. People are hardly even getting truly sick for it. So more people have it than ever, but less people are getting severely ill.

Why doesn't anybody talk about this?
Because it does not fit in with the fear agenda being played out?
 

Game Analyst

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Because it does not fit in with the fear agenda being played out?
Agreed. In the Peter Hitchens article that I shared (the first tweet), Hitchens disclosed that the masses are being told (conditioned) to stay in a state of fear:

Those who think this is scaremongering need to read an astonishing document still far too little known to the general public. It is a paper submitted to the government’s own SAGE committee on 22 March 2020, and it has the heading “Persuasion”. The key segment reads:

Perceived threat: A substantial number of people still do not feel sufficiently personally threatened; it could be that they are reassured by the low death rate in their demographic group, although levels of concern may be rising. Having a good understanding of the risk has been found to be positively associated with adoption of Covid-19 social distancing measures in Hong Kong. The perceived level of personal threat needs to be increased among those who are complacent [my emphasis], using hard-hitting emotional messaging. To be effective this must also empower people by making clear the actions they can take to reduce the threat.

Documents of this kind are not supposed to get out. In better times than these, with active and critical media, this particular passage — with its clear implication that it was the task of the state to scare us into compliance — might have led to the fall of the government. As it is, you will struggle to find mentions of it in the British national press. They are there, but they are hard to find and not on any daily front pages. This is not because of censorship or because of any kind of collective action.
Source: Covid masks are a potent symbol of the West’s headlong flight from Enlightenment values
 
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diffusionx

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I've been diligently washing and disinfecting my hands for the past 6 months now, but I'm starting to really not give a shit anymore. I might just stop bothering.

The spread is at an all time high in my country. Papers repeatedly churn out headlines like "worst week so far", 'record numbers" etc, etc.

There's just one thing missing from the equation.

Nobody's dying. People are hardly even getting truly sick for it. So more people have it than ever, but less people are getting severely ill.

Why doesn't anybody talk about this?
Because this pandemic is not about the virus. What it is about, is up for debate, but it is not about COVID.
 

diffusionx

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Agreed. In the Peter Hitchens article that I shared (the first tweet), Hitchens disclosed that the masses are being told (conditioned) to stay in a state of fear:



Source: Covid masks are a potent symbol of the West’s headlong flight from Enlightenment values
I was a child at the tail end of the Cold War and my folks used to talk about the evils of the Soviet Union and how they stifled freedom and made you completely subservient to the state for everything. While some of that was propaganda they were subjected to growing up we all know the USSR did not respect individual liberty and autonomy.

Yet the USSR never did anything to her citizens similar to what our governments have subjected us to over the past six months. This is just an objective fact. We are dealing with the sort of repression that the USSR probably never even considered and there are millions quite fine with it and who want more. The speed at which the government just instituted total authoritarian control over our individual lives was so stunning and to think about it is just extremely despairing.

Feels bad man.
 
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Taxexemption

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This is a stupid comparison. The airport stuff has evolved because the crazies have evolved their tactics to TRY TO KILL PEOPLE WITH AIRPLANES.
Look into it more, most of the tactics we are using are not effective. It is security theatre that won't stop the vast majority of attempts. The truth is there just aren't that many people trying to do terrorism, even if they dislike our government they would rather do normal stuff and whine about what makes them mad on the internet.
 
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Joe T.

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Missed this last week:
The song goes on to condemn “celebrities telling us what we’re supposed to feel,” which Morrison is objectively also guilty of doing with these new lockdown protest anthems. However, in a statement released on his website, the singer writes, “I’m not telling people what to do or think, the government is doing a great job of that already. It’s about freedom of choice, I believe people should have the right to think for themselves.”

Northern Ireland’s health minister, Robin Swann, responded to Morrison’s new music, telling the BBC
, “I don’t know where he gets his facts. I know where the emotions are on this, but I will say that sort of messaging is dangerous.
The right to think for ourselves is dangerous. :messenger_grimmacing_

I'm expecting Quebec to become a "red zone" any day now with stricter measures accompanying it, had nearly 900 new cases reported even though hospitalization and ICU numbers went down in the last 24 hours. Media coverage from New York gives me the impression they're laying the groundwork for more "non-essential" business closures, too. One example from CBS, another from NBC and just like Quebec, "Although the number of tests also reaching new highs..."
 
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diffusionx

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Look into it more, most of the tactics we are using are not effective. It is security theatre that won't stop the vast majority of attempts. The truth is there just aren't that many people trying to do terrorism, even if they dislike our government they would rather do normal stuff and whine about what makes them mad on the internet.
Yea, TSA is spectacularly bad at its job, but if you did a poll, should we just eliminate the TSA and go back to airport security the way it was done on 9/10/2001, my guess is that it would get a very very small percentage of the vote. It's a weird thing, despite all evidence that the TSA being very bad at its job (the government tests the TSA and it consistently fails 90%+ of those tests), people would rather have it be in front of them than not be. Hence, security theater. Masks and social distancing are security theater.

The only big difference is that people only really have to tolerate the TSA an hour or two when they fly, which for most is once or twice a year. But now we are being forced to live with this nonsense every waking moment. I really do worry but I also hold onto hope that people will see through it at some point.
 
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MisterFalcon

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Yet the USSR never did anything to her citizens similar to what our governments have subjected us to over the past six months. This is just an objective fact. We are dealing with the sort of repression that the USSR probably never even considered and there are millions quite fine with it and who want more. The speed at which the government just instituted total authoritarian control over our individual lives was so stunning and to think about it is just extremely despairing.
The USSR would be taking you and everyone else criticizing the government out to a forest and shoot you in the back of the head.
 

Joe T.

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It's in French, but Quebec's Minister of Health, once head of corporate finances at Price Waterhouse, is told that there's surely more cases because there's more testing and replies with "No," "I'm happy that we're doing 20,000, 30,000, 36,000 tests per day, but the percentage doesn't change. It's not that we're doing more tests that we're finding more cases."



 

FireFly

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I recommend reading Hichen's article to understand his entire argument.
His argument seems to be pretty opaque, since he neither refers to a specific theory of liberty that can explain the kinds of tradeoffs that might be justifiable, nor does he say what governments should do when faced with a potentially catastrophic threat that spreads through human-to-human contact. Even if you believe the coronavirus is a giant hoax agreed in secret by left and right wing governments to take over our lives, you still have to answer the question of what we should do if such a threat were real.

In such a situation, I think it would be pretty strange to suggest that people shouldn't feel afraid, or that fear shouldn't modify their behaviour in any way. And it would be doubly strange to suggest that it would be wrong to fear a deadly virus, but perfectly fine to fear any attempts to control the spread of that virus, if they impinged on liberty in any way. So I think the "argument from fear" doesn't really settle anything at all. The real question is whether the restrictions on liberty are justified, not whether fear is an appropriate response to a potential catastrophe.

In that regard, the argument from fear is itself a kind of emotional appeal, routed in the fear of being seen as subservient or cowardly. You can see this when you realise it can be made about any situation, even one where the fear is perfectly justified.
 
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hariseldon

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Quote for paywall..

Parliament’s bars exempt from 10pm coronavirus curfew



Parliament’s bars will not be subject to the 10pm curfew or have to gather customers’ details despite the imposition of tougher rules on pubs last Thursday, The Times has learnt.

Facilities serving alcohol on the parliamentary estate are understood to be exempt from the earlier closing time on the basis that they fall under the description of “a workplace canteen”.

The regulations announced by Boris Johnson last week state that “workplace canteens may remain open where there is no practical alternative for staff at that workplace to obtain food”.

Bar staff and customers in the Palace of Westminster will not be required to follow stricter rules on face coverings introduced for other licensed premises. Nor will visitors to parliamentary bars be asked to supply a name and number on entry, with all responsibility falling to a team that acts as the point of contact for any suspected or confirmed coronavirus cases among MPs and staff on the estate. MPs do not have to register their presence in parliament and are only advised to stay away if they have symptoms.

The House of Commons authorities have promised to keep the arrangements under review. However, one parliamentary source called the exemptions “a massive own goal”.

Trade unions representing bar staff in parliament are expected to complain that their members are being put at risk by being excepted from the new regulations.

A handful of parliament’s bars reopened before the summer recess, including the Pugin Room, Strangers’ Dining Room, the Adjournment and the Members’ Smoking Room.

Several safety measures have been introduced for areas where MPs congregate, including “enhanced cleaning regimes”, a rule allowing one person per table in Portcullis House, and Perspex screens at the tills.

A spokeswoman for the House of Commons confirmed the current regulations on hospitality venues do not apply to parliamentary facilities. She said: “We continue to follow social distancing and cleaning measures as a Covid-secure workplace in order to reduce the transmission of the disease through social distancing signage, one way systems, socially distanced seating arrangements, contactless payments, marshalling and additional cleaning.”

The recent rise in infections across the country has nonetheless prompted further scrutiny of working practices at Westminster, with senior figures calling for the reintroduction of digital voting over fears that social distancing is not being observed.

MPs must vote in person under the present system unless they certify that they have a medical or public health reason to be absent, such as self-isolating, which entitles them to a proxy.

Karen Bradley, Tory chairwoman of the procedure committee, urged the government to end in-person voting, saying: “People are worried and scared, not just for their own health but for the health of Commons staff.”

Another former cabinet minister told The Times that the arrangements were ridiculous, adding: “We’re risking parliament being a centre of infection.”

Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the Commons, has resisted any return to digital voting, which was trialled at the height of the pandemic’s first wave. “The effectiveness of our scrutiny and the efficiency of our law-making was sadly diminished,” he told MPs last Wednesday.

Tory whips are also understood to be opposed to a return to digital voting over fears that MPs are harder to monitor away from the parliamentary estate.

Sir Lindsay Hoyle, the Speaker, has started patrolling the division lobbies to ensure MPs are socially distancing.
 

sinnergy

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His argument seems to be pretty opaque, since he neither refers to a specific theory of liberty that can explain the kinds of tradeoffs that might be justifiable, nor does he say what governments should do when faced with a potentially catastrophic threat that spreads through human-to-human contact. Even if you believe the coronavirus is a giant hoax agreed in secret by left and right wing governments to take over our lives, you still have to answer the question of what we should do if such a threat were real.

In such a situation, I think it would be pretty strange to suggest that people shouldn't feel afraid, or that fear shouldn't modify their behaviour in any way. And it would be doubly strange to suggest that it would be wrong to fear a deadly virus, but perfectly fine to fear any attempts to control the spread of that virus, if they impinged on liberty in any way. So I think the "argument from fear" doesn't really settle anything at all. The real question is whether the restrictions on liberty are justified, not whether fear is an appropriate response to a potential catastrophe.

In that regard, the argument from fear is itself a kind of emotional appeal, routed in the fear of being seen as subservient or cowardly. You can see this when you realise it can be made about any situation, even one where the fear is perfectly justified.
And fear is a system needed for humans to save them selves , it’s connected to decision making , without fear you probably wouldn’t survive certain situations. The human psyche is a wonderful machine .
 
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And fear is a system needed for humans to save them selves , it’s connected to decision making , without fear you probably wouldn’t survive certain situations. The human psyche is a wonderful machine .
So is hope, love , rational , common sense.....people would listen more if there was some percevied balance. Why no daily messaging of eat well, get some vitamin D, get some exercise and also making sure that the right foods are made avialable to the public at prices everyone can afford?
 

Jezbollah

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That Parliament bar thing smells like a dead cat to me. Nice distraction from the testing and university bollocks going on.