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[Mobile Suit Gooch]

Most disliked president in modern history.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

 

[FunkMiller]

Yes, it is fake news, in case you wonder. Is it really that hard to type the same words into your favourite search engine?

It's another conspiracy theory. Is nobody able anymore to look at sources, liable reports and use critical thinking? Track and dispute sources?

Have now lost count of the amount of times on this forum that I’ve done a ten second google search to debunk someone else’s posts.

People don‘t want truth. They want their opinions confirmed. They want to feel ‘right’. In a world of no certainties, people are gripping on to the ones they think are solid for dear life - no matter how wrong they are. Dangerous stuff.

 

[BadBurger]

Biden to deploy FEMA, National Guard to set up Covid vaccine clinics across the U.S.

The Biden administration will also "quickly jumpstart" efforts to make the vaccines available at local pharmacies across the U.S.

www.cnbc.com

Key points:

• President-elect Joe Biden plans to use FEMA and the National Guard to build coronavirus vaccine clinics across the United States, according to new details of his Covid-19 vaccination plan.
  
  
• The Biden administration will also “quickly jump-start” efforts to make the vaccines available at local pharmacies across the U.S.
  
  
• “The policy changes that we’re going to be making are going to take time to show up in the Covid statistics. It’s not just statistics, it’s people’s lives,” Biden said during a speech.

“Here’s the deal: The more people we vaccinate, the faster we do it, the sooner we can save lives and put this pandemic behind us and get back to our lives and loved ones,” Biden said at a speech in Wilmington, Delaware, Thursday night. “We won’t get out of it overnight and we can’t do it as a separated nation.”

It's refreshing to see a motivated incoming administration with a better plan. The Trump administration didn't completely botch the vaccination roll-out - 11 million vaccinated so far (though far short of the 20 million they promised by the end of 2020). That's about on par with the UK proportionately by population (they have vaccinated 3 million for a population 1/5 the size of the US). But with all of the resources we have we should have been able to roll this out faster. Everything in Biden's plan should have already been at least put into motion by now (ideally a week ago).

 

[showernota]

More information on the potential timeline of the original spread.

 

[DeepBreath87]

More information on the potential timeline of the original spread.

I think anyone who doesn’t think that lab in Wuhan had something to do with this is crazy. What are the odds a brand new, extremely contagious virus pops up in a city that has one of only a handful of labs on the planet with the ability to create such a virus. Then there is the Chinese reaction to trying to find out where it came from, which is to destroy information and stall investigators while they cover their tracks. Clearly the virus didn’t fall out of the sky. So when they admitted it didn’t come from the market, it seemed pretty clear where it came from.

 

[BadBurger]

I think anyone who doesn’t think that lab in Wuhan had something to do with this is crazy. What are the odds a brand new, extremely contagious virus pops up in a city that has one of only a handful of labs on the planet with the ability to create such a virus. Then there is the Chinese reaction to trying to find out where it came from, which is to destroy information and stall investigators while they cover their tracks. Clearly the virus didn’t fall out of the sky. So when they admitted it didn’t come from the market, it seemed pretty clear where it came from.

Coronaviruses are numerous. There's hundreds of them known to man. New strains of existing coronaviruses and entirely new coronaviruses pop up from time to time. The one that caused the SARS outbreak back in 2002 would have seemed to have "come out of nowhere" as well to someone that didn't understand how they work and how common they are. Researchers, after years of study, found that it originated in bats and a spillover event in a still unsure location in China occurred (Edit: it was actually Foshan, Guangdong - confused it with another for a moment). That's all - no labs involved.

There's nothing suggesting that SARS-CoV-2 was in any way manmade. It likewise seems to just be another coronavirus that spilled over to humans.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Coronaviruses are numerous. There's hundreds of them known to man. New strains of existing coronaviruses and entirely new coronaviruses pop up from time to time. The one that caused the SARS outbreak back in 2002 would have seemed to have "come out of nowhere" as well to someone that didn't understand how they work and how common they are. Researchers, after years of study, found that it originated in bats and a spillover event in a still unsure location in China occurred (Edit: it was actually Foshan, Guangdong - confused it with another for a moment). That's all - no labs involved.

There's nothing suggesting that SARS-CoV-2 was in any way manmade. It likewise seems to just be another coronavirus that spilled over to humans.

#BelieveChina

 

[Outrunner]

Coronaviruses are numerous. There's hundreds of them known to man. New strains of existing coronaviruses and entirely new coronaviruses pop up from time to time. The one that caused the SARS outbreak back in 2002 would have seemed to have "come out of nowhere" as well to someone that didn't understand how they work and how common they are. Researchers, after years of study, found that it originated in bats and a spillover event in a still unsure location in China occurred (Edit: it was actually Foshan, Guangdong - confused it with another for a moment). That's all - no labs involved.

There's nothing suggesting that SARS-CoV-2 was in any way manmade. It likewise seems to just be another coronavirus that spilled over to humans.

And to no one's surprise the same conspiracy theories were popular back then "it escaped a lab in China".

 

[FunkMiller]

#BelieveChina

I don’t trust China as far as I could throw them. But then I don’t trust what the Trump administration puts out either. I’d like an independent investigation into it.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Coronaviruses are numerous. There's hundreds of them known to man. New strains of existing coronaviruses and entirely new coronaviruses pop up from time to time. The one that caused the SARS outbreak back in 2002 would have seemed to have "come out of nowhere" as well to someone that didn't understand how they work and how common they are. Researchers, after years of study, found that it originated in bats and a spillover event in a still unsure location in China occurred (Edit: it was actually Foshan, Guangdong - confused it with another for a moment). That's all - no labs involved.

There's nothing suggesting that SARS-CoV-2 was in any way manmade. It likewise seems to just be another coronavirus that spilled over to humans.

So then it’s just an unhappy coincidence that this one, the most special one in history, happened to pop up in a city with a level 4 virology lab. The only such lab in China and one of only a handful on earth. A lab where they have been doing gain of function testing on bat coronaviruses.

It could be a coincidence. But those are some pretty tall odds. Then there is China’s reaction which has been... let’s say less than honest. So it’s a little bit disingenuous to say there’s no evidence when the country under discussion refuses to allow anyone else in to gather any kind of information. And it’s been a year, so they’ve had plenty of time to whitewash whatever went on in that facility.

 

[showernota]

There's nothing suggesting that SARS-CoV-2 was in any way manmade. It likewise seems to just be another coronavirus that spilled over to humans.

A bold claim. I guess we’ll see.

Norwegian virologist claims coronavirus is 'chimera' made in Chinese lab | Taiwan News | 2020-06-10 18:37:00

British-Norwegian study alleges COVID-19 has 'inserted sections' | 2020-06-10 18:37:00

www.taiwannews.com.tw

The Lab-Leak Hypothesis

For decades, scientists have been hot-wiring viruses in hopes of preventing a pandemic, not causing one. But what if …?

nymag.com

 

[FunkMiller]

For the avoidance of doubt:




Lockdowns, when implemented properly, work. Because a respiratory virus can’t spread when people don’t mix.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I don’t trust China as far as I could throw them. But then I don’t trust what the Trump administration puts out either. I’d like an independent investigation into it.

It's not just the Trump administration or his associates that suspect it came from the lab.

And for the millionth time, since I know it will come up, coming from a lab does not necessarily mean it had to have been manufactured artificially in that lab.

For the avoidance of doubt:




Lockdowns, when implemented properly, work. Because a respiratory can’t spread when people don’t mix.

It was never in doubt that if you keep people separated from each other, the virus spread will be reduced while they are separated.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So then it’s just an unhappy coincidence that this one, the most special one in history, happened to pop up in a city with a level 4 virology lab. The only such lab in China and one of only a handful on earth. A lab where they have been doing gain of function testing on bat coronaviruses.

It could be a coincidence. But those are some pretty tall odds. Then there is China’s reaction which has been... let’s say less than honest. So it’s a little bit disingenuous to say there’s no evidence when the country under discussion refuses to allow anyone else in to gather any kind of information. And it’s been a year, so they’ve had plenty of time to whitewash whatever went on in that facility.

Not to mention the deaths and disappearances of people who might be in the know. All a big coincidence, I'm sure. It's just puzzling to me that so many people are willing to accept the idea that it doesn't matter where it came from or how it got out. Just shut up and mask up.

 

[BadBurger]

So then it’s just an unhappy coincidence that this one, the most special one in history, happened to pop up in a city with a level 4 virology lab. The only such lab in China and one of only a handful on earth. A lab where they have been doing gain of function testing on bat coronaviruses.

It could be a coincidence. But those are some pretty tall odds. Then there is China’s reaction which has been... let’s say less than honest. So it’s a little bit disingenuous to say there’s no evidence when the country under discussion refuses to allow anyone else in to gather any kind of information. And it’s been a year, so they’ve had plenty of time to whitewash whatever went on in that facility.

Yes, a coincidence, and not really a remarkable one either. There are BSL-4 labs throughout the world - over 50. They've been around for many years. There's thirteen in United States alone - such as the one at the CDC down in Georgia. There's nothing special about China's Wuhan Institute of Virology aside from the fact that it is home to the first BSL-4 lab in China to receive the highest level of biosafety clearance. It just happens to be in Wuhan, the original epicenter of COVID-19, so naturally conspiracy theorists spun some sensational yarn about how the virus leaked out of it Resident Evil style.

To put it into perspective: the most lethal and contagious influenza strain the world has ever known, the Spanish Flu, likely spilled over from pigs to humans in the filthy conditions of the early 1900's. Some researchers even suggest a location in Kansas as the most likely site for ground zero. There were no virology labs back then, no advanced pathogen research (such things sprang out of necessity because of that virus). But viruses then, just as they do now, operated the same way.

And I think China's reaction and attempt to contain it was just par for the course for the CCP. They didn't want bad press domestically and hence refused to believe the doctor that discovered it, attempted to strongarm him into being silent. That poor doctor died from it as it was bursting out from Wuhan into larger China, and only then did the CCP acknowledge the truth and begin their typical containment and eradication procedures.

 

[Leyasu]

For the avoidance of doubt:




Lockdowns, when implemented properly, work. Because a respiratory can’t spread when people don’t mix.

The usual suspects will be all over you for this

 

[Chaplain]

 

[Outrunner]

Yes, a coincidence, and not really a remarkable one either. There are BSL-4 labs throughout the world - over 50. They've been around for many years. There's thirteen in United States alone - such as the one at the CDC down in Georgia. There's nothing special about China's Wuhan Institute of Virology aside from the fact that it is home to the first BSL-4 lab in China to receive the highest level of biosafety clearance. It just happens to be in Wuhan, the original epicenter of COVID-19, so naturally conspiracy theorists spun some sensational yarn about how the virus leaked out of it Resident Evil style.

To put it into perspective: the most lethal and contagious influenza strain the world has ever known, the Spanish Flu, likely spilled over from pigs to humans in the filthy conditions of the early 1900's. Some researchers even suggest a location in Kansas as the most likely site for ground zero. There were no virology labs back then, no advanced pathogen research (such things sprang out of necessity because of that virus). But viruses then, just as they do now, operated the same way.

And I think China's reaction and attempt to contain it was just par for the course for the CCP. They didn't want bad press domestically and hence refused to believe the doctor that discovered it, attempted to strongarm him into being silent. That poor doctor died from it as it was bursting out from Wuhan into larger China, and only then did the CCP acknowledge the truth and begin their typical containment and eradication procedures.

It's actually refreshing to see intelligent posts around here.

 

[FunkMiller]

It was never in doubt that if you keep people separated from each other, the virus spread will be reduced while they are separated.

You’re kidding, right? Go back through this thread. Lots of people denying lockdowns are effective.

They‘ll all be quiet now, of course. You can’t gaslight hard data.

 

[DeepBreath87]

You’re kidding, right? Go back through this thread. Lots of people denying lockdowns are effective.

They‘ll all be quiet now, of course. You can’t gaslight hard data.

I don’t know who would’ve thought lockdowns didn’t work in the short term. The problem as always will be what happened after you let people out again. Hopefully the vaccine will fix that problem.

 

[Outrunner]

You’re kidding, right? Go back through this thread. Lots of people denying lockdowns are effective.

They‘ll all be quiet now, of course. You can’t gaslight hard data.

Watch them bend over backwards now.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

You’re kidding, right? Go back through this thread. Lots of people denying lockdowns are effective.

They‘ll all be quiet now, of course. You can’t gaslight hard data.

I haven’t seen anyone deny that keeping people separated reduces spread as long as people are kept separated. Literally no one.

The problem is when you look only at COVID-related stuff and ignore everything else when evaluating the effectiveness of a lockdown. There’s also the fact that as soon as you stop the lockdown, the exponential spread starts right back up. You always end up in the same place eventually.

Now, I get the argument for doing them to slow the spread in order to prevent the health care system from being completely overwhelmed, but even that aspect should not be evaluated in a vacuum. The problem is being so laser focused on COVID cases and deaths and ignoring quite literally everything else.

 

[Chaplain]

 

[CrapSandwich]

For the avoidance of doubt:




Lockdowns, when implemented properly, work. Because a respiratory virus can’t spread when people don’t mix.

This is the most idiotic thing I've seen today. "Here's one graph from twitter that totally proves the point."

If that's how you like it, here's a compilation of 30 studies demonstrating lockdowns don't work. Educate yourself for once:

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This is the most idiotic thing I've seen today. "Here's one graph from twitter that totally proves the point."

If that's how you like it, here's a compilation of 30 studies demonstrating lockdowns don't work. Educate yourself for once:

It all depends on how you define “work” in the context of a COVID intervention. If temporarily curbing spread to reduce load on medical facilities is all you care about, then sure, they work. But at what cost?

 

[FunkMiller]

This is the most idiotic thing I've seen today. "Here's one graph from twitter that totally proves the point."

If that's how you like it, here's a compilation of 30 studies demonstrating lockdowns don't work. Educate yourself for once:

That graph on Twitter is of official government figures, you big girl’s blouse

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

But I’m sure Brumby and his pals are ever so reliable as well!

 

[CrapSandwich]

That graph on Twitter is of official government figures, you big girl’s blouse

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

But I’m sure Brumby and his pals are ever so reliable as well!

Bury your head in the sand and remain in darkness. But you have your one graph. Don't stop believing.

 

[FunkMiller]

Bury your head in the sand and remain in darkness. But you have your one graph. Don't stop believing.

You’re actually serious, aren’t you?

You actually believe that the UK government are deliberately putting out false data about the coronavirus for some nefarious purpose.

I can only assume that’s what you think by dismissing my ‘one graph’ - from the actual, proper UK government.

..while you trust a random dude on Twitter called Brumby.

Who do you really think has got his head full of sand here?

 

[DeepBreath87]

Yes, a coincidence, and not really a remarkable one either. There are BSL-4 labs throughout the world - over 50. They've been around for many years. There's thirteen in United States alone - such as the one at the CDC down in Georgia. There's nothing special about China's Wuhan Institute of Virology aside from the fact that it is home to the first BSL-4 lab in China to receive the highest level of biosafety clearance. It just happens to be in Wuhan, the original epicenter of COVID-19, so naturally conspiracy theorists spun some sensational yarn about how the virus leaked out of it Resident Evil style.

To put it into perspective: the most lethal and contagious influenza strain the world has ever known, the Spanish Flu, likely spilled over from pigs to humans in the filthy conditions of the early 1900's. Some researchers even suggest a location in Kansas as the most likely site for ground zero. There were no virology labs back then, no advanced pathogen research (such things sprang out of necessity because of that virus). But viruses then, just as they do now, operated the same way.

And I think China's reaction and attempt to contain it was just par for the course for the CCP. They didn't want bad press domestically and hence refused to believe the doctor that discovered it, attempted to strongarm him into being silent. That poor doctor died from it as it was bursting out from Wuhan into larger China, and only then did the CCP acknowledge the truth and begin their typical containment and eradication procedures.

You say 50 labs like they are everywhere. That’s 50 places on the planet. Earth is a big place. There is one in all of China. And wouldn’t you know it, the virus first appears in the same city. That is extremely unlikely. Out of thousands of cities on the planet, one of the 50 or so with a level 4 virology lab just happened to be the birthplace of covid 19. If you think that shouldn’t raise any eyebrows, you just don’t understand probability.

 

[CrapSandwich]

It all depends on how you define “work” in the context of a COVID intervention. If temporarily curbing spread to reduce load on medical facilities is all you care about, then sure, they work. But at what cost?

Well they do and they don't. It depends on what we mean when we say lockdown because there's this whole spectrum of restrictions that fall under that title. The initial lockdowns "worked" in the sense that people cross-polinated less and it delayed a certain amount of infection. But most of that reduced contact came at people's discretion in being cautious and weren't part of the "lockdown." People kind of stopped caring and started intermingling as time went on, leaving the lockdowns on businesses, schools, etc. not doing much of anything.

 

[CrapSandwich]

You’re actually serious, aren’t you?

You actually believe that the UK government are deliberately putting out false data about the coronavirus for some nefarious purpose.

I can only assume that’s what you think by dismissing my ‘one graph’ - from the actual, proper UK government.

..while you trust a random dude on Twitter called Brumby.

Who do you really think has got his head full of sand here?

All the studies are linked, so you're not dismissing Brumby, but 30 different groups of scientists. Feel free to read up if you want to learn something, but I suspect you'll choose to remain in blithering dipshitville.

 

[showernota]

You’re actually serious, aren’t you?

You actually believe that the UK government are deliberately putting out false data about the coronavirus for some nefarious purpose. I can only assume that’s what you think by dismissing my ‘one graph’ - from the actual, proper UK government.

Just to be clear, you trust the UK government more than an independent source/investigation?

I don’t trust China as far as I could throw them. But then I don’t trust what the Trump administration puts out either. I’d like an independent investigation into it.

..while you trust a random dude on Twitter called Brumby.

Who do you really think has got his head full of sand here?

There's a link in it you're ignoring https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/eci.13484

When you completely misrepresent someone else's argument like this it really discredits your integrity.

inb4 "but CrapSandwich misrepresented my twitter graph." It goes both ways.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Well they do and they don't. It depends on what we mean when we say lockdown because there's this whole spectrum of restrictions that fall under that title. The initial lockdowns "worked" in the sense that people cross-polinated less and it delayed a certain amount of infection. But most of that reduced contact came at people's discretion in being cautious and weren't part of the "lockdown." People kind of stopped caring and started intermingling as time went on, leaving the lockdowns on businesses, schools, etc. not doing much of anything.

I'm just talking about strictly enforced lockdowns in which people are basically required to not leave their homes. There's no doubt that separating people will reduce human-to-human transmission, so if you successfully separate people, then of course you're going to see reduced spread as long you manage to keep them separated.

I do agree that there are bunch of bullshit half-assed "lockdown" like restrictions being implemented by various governments around the world that are just killing businesses and not doing much to even reduce the spread. Worst of both worlds.

 

[FunkMiller]

All the studies are linked, so you're not dismissing Brumby, but 30 different groups of scientists. Feel free to read up if you want to learn something, but I suspect you'll choose to remain in blithering dipshitville.

Did you actually look closely at some of those reports? They don’t quite paint the picture that you think they do.

And also, 30 scientific reviews are lovely and all (among hundreds with many differing conclusions, it should be noted)..... but hard data is even better. And the hard data clearly shows a marked drop off after lockdown started.

Easy, innit?

 

[FunkMiller]

Just to be clear, you trust the UK government more than an independent source/investigation?

Are you asking me if I believe the data being presented? Yes. Of course I do. The U.K has become just about the most transparent nation in the world on Covid figures.

And I can find just as many independent sources that say lockdown is effective... Because all articles are the opinions of those analysing the data. Changing data.

Covid deniers like to pick the articles that best serve their agenda.... though rarely study them properly. They handily disregard all the others that offer opposing views...

 

[DeepBreath87]

Are you asking me if I believe the data being presented? Yes. Of course I do. The U.K has become just about the most transparent nation in the world on Covid figures.

And I can find just as many independent sources that say lockdown is effective... Because all articles are the opinions of those analysing the data. Changing data.

Covid deniers like to pick the articles that best serve their agenda.... though rarely study them properly. They handily disregard all the others that offer opposing views...

That seems like something everyone does when arguing online. Present company included.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

You guys are basically arguing two different things.

Funk is saying lockdowns work because they reduce spread while they are active. Yeah, no shit.

Crap is saying lockdowns don't seem to significantly reduce cases or mortality in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, no shit.

Both are true. Lockdowns need to be indefinite and strictly enforced to work in the long term, which is just not feasible. Short-term lockdowns that are strictly enforced just punt the problem down the road at extreme costs (not just monetary). Indefinite restrictions that are not strictly enforced basically just kill the economy and don't help curb the spread. Basically a worst of both worlds situation.

 

[FunkMiller]

You guys are basically arguing two different things.

Funk is saying lockdowns work because they reduce spread while they are active. Yeah, no shit.

Crap is saying lockdowns don't seem to significantly reduce cases or mortality in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, no shit.

Both are true. Lockdowns need to be indefinite and strictly enforced to work in the long term, which is just not feasible. Short-term lockdowns that are strictly enforced just punt the problem down the road at extreme costs (not just monetary). Indefinite restrictions that are not strictly enforced basically just kill the economy and don't help curb the spread. Basically a worst of both worlds situation.

If our governments had locked down hard, fast and properly, rates and deaths would have been far lower, and economies would have suffered less. Those nations who did this have come off best.

The sad fact is that lockdowns are the only effective way to stop a pandemic... and lockdowns can destroy economies. That’s the bad choice here. Awful, but unavoidable. A crying shame so many politicians didn’t have the guts to address it decisively.

...or rather that was the way things were before the vaccines arrived. Now we’re just waiting for the swap over point.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

If our governments had locked down hard, fast and properly, rates and deaths would have been far lower, and economies would have suffered less. Those nations who did this have come off best.

The sad fact is that lockdowns are the only effective way to stop a pandemic... and lockdowns can destroy economies. That’s the bad choice here. Awful, but unavoidable. A crying shame so many politicians didn’t have the guts to address it decisively.

...or rather that was the way things were before the vaccines arrived.

Why would they have been far lower in the long run? Please explain that part to me. With exponential spread, if even one person gets through your system, it all starts right back up. You can't open up your country. Maybe it's feasible in food-independent island nations like Australia and New Zealand with tiny populations and population densities, but for places like the US and Europe? Nah, was never in the cards.

You also have to explain how various nations that did not lockdown are still doing quite well. There are far more factors at play here that we still don't really understand.

 

[CrapSandwich]

Did you actually look closely at some of those reports? They don’t quite paint the picture that you think they do.

And also, 30 scientific reviews are lovely and all (among hundreds with many differing conclusions, it should be noted)..... but hard data is even better. And the hard data clearly shows a marked drop off after lockdown started.

Easy, innit?

One slice of data from one lockdown doesn't prove anything one way or the other. That's why you need a comprehensive view. And that comprehensive view must include a view towards all harms. You're ignoring truckloads of data that disprove what you want to believe. But hey, you have that one graph that lacks analysis or counterpoint.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

One slice of data from one lockdown doesn't prove anything one way or the other. That's why you need a comprehensive view. And that comprehensive view must include a view towards all harms. You're ignoring truckloads of data that disprove what you want to believe. But hey, you have that one graph that lacks analysis or counterpoint.

Especially from the UK, which has done strict lockdowns before, has more social cohesiveness and obedience to the government, and less politicization of masking and shit, was the first in the world to approve vaccines, etc. but still has worse deaths per 1M pop than the hot mess that is the United States.

 

[FunkMiller]

Especially from the UK, which has done strict lockdowns before, has more social cohesiveness and obedience to the government, and less politicization of masking and shit, was the first in the world to approve vaccines, etc. but still has worse deaths per 1M pop than the hot mess that is the United States.

See, that’s not a correct read of the U.K at all. We didn't lockdown quick enough or early enough. Johnson dithered for too long and only put in half arsed measures. A lot of people haven’t been following the rules. We did a stupid eat out to help out scheme that just spread the virus. Never closed airports.

The U.K. response has been pretty terrible. The only thing we got right is the vaccine!

Happily, the current lockdown is dropping cases dramatically, and we’re vaccinating over 300,000 a day

 

[Deleted member 17706]

See, that’s not a correct read of the U.K at all. We didn't lockdown quick enough or early enough. Johnson dithered for too long and only put in half arsed measures. A lot of people haven’t been following the rules. We did a stupid eat out to help out scheme that just spread the virus. Never closed airports.

The U.K. response has been pretty terrible. The only thing we got right is the vaccine!

It hasn't been great, perhaps, but if you think the UK's response has been terrible, surely you think the US's response has been something like "catastrophically bad beyond belief." What you see as mistakes or half measures have been done a much larger scale in the US. My point was that the UK has done far more "right" according to the current conventional wisdom, but is in a worse state than the US.

Happily, the current lockdown is dropping cases dramatically, and we’re vaccinating over 300,000 a day

Definitely excited to see what the results are in a few months.

 

[FireFly]

This is the most idiotic thing I've seen today. "Here's one graph from twitter that totally proves the point."

If that's how you like it, here's a compilation of 30 studies demonstrating lockdowns don't work. Educate yourself for once:

Well, these studies are for the first wave, right? Over the summer Europe was able to control the virus through social distancing, so I don't find this terribly surprising. The question is whether the same pattern will apply to the second wave, where uncoordinated individual behaviour has so far not been sufficient to keep R below 1. Sweden will be interesting to observe, here.

 

[Jezbollah]

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

Lockdowns, when implemented properly, work. Because a respiratory virus can’t spread when people don’t mix.

The problem is most people still have to go to work and they also have to go to the supermarket and gas stations. Closing all small businesses also creates very high unemployment, and can lead to riots which also spread the virus.

You say 50 labs like they are everywhere. That’s 50 places on the planet. Earth is a big place. There is one in all of China. And wouldn’t you know it, the virus first appears in the same city. That is extremely unlikely. Out of thousands of cities on the planet, one of the 50 or so with a level 4 virology lab just happened to be the birthplace of covid 19. If you think that shouldn’t raise any eyebrows, you just don’t understand probability.

There was a discussion by a virologist on the genome, and it seems like the mutations just don't add up for a natural occurrence, seems like it was spliced together. Also, some of the genetics are very similar to a virus that was earlier isolated by that same lab years prior from a distant region.

 

[Cutty Flam]

Highly informative video

 

[FunkMiller]

I’m stunned... but I do think we’ll hit that target, and maybe even exceed it. Looking to see those death and serious case rates plummet in two or three weeks

 

[Stitch]