• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Criminal Girls SFW but maybe not morally SFA, impression thread

Bebpo

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
30,394
7
0
39
Orange County, CA



Well, since someone had to give Image Epoch and N1's latest dungeon crawler a try, I thought I would take one for the team and against my greater judgment play a game with cute moe girls in NSFW poses; oh the horror.

And what do you know, it's actually a fun retro dungeon crawler that's a little perverted.

The game feels like a mix of Etrian Odyssey x Baten Kaitos battles & your average visual novel in Japan where it's 1 guy + a bunch of stereotype girls (the loli, the pissed off all the time one, the tomboy, the glasses girl, etc...).


The game takes place in Hell, and these girls can't go to hell because even though they were destined to be criminals in their lives and eventually go to hell, they died young before they could commit crimes. So they're given a chance to redeem themselves and be reincarnated if they can clear the 4+ dungeons of the tower. As the first day on the job warden-like figure in charge of these girls you have to lead them through the dungeons of the tower.

The dungeons are traditional dungeon crawling. Locked doors, treasures, save points, random encounters. Mini-bosses, big bosses, etc...

What makes the game unique and interesting is the battle system. It's a luck based gambling system.

Each girl has a set of attacks. As you beat your girls (will get back to this later) they learn new attacks. In a way you could say their attacks are their "deck"

When you go into battle, every turn the game randomly rolls the deck of each of the 4 characters and the dialogue lines tell you which attack they will do.




The key is that instead of all 4 characters taking their turn each round. Only 1 character acts per turn. So you look through your 4 rolled choices ("cards") and pick one and it does that. Some of them allow multiple characters to attack like the one that says "attack x 2" at the bottom in the above pick. This means two characters will do their basic attacks. But whoever the other character who attacks is besides the speaking one is random. So it might be your mage who has terrible physical attack. Chance there.

That being said the game has several ways to balance this because otherwise it'd be way too luck driven and annoying.

1. At the start of every turn you can use 1 item before you choose your attacks. So you can heal characters, revive characters, cure status every single turn. This helps, especially when bosses 1 hit KO your character since you can just use a revive item next round.

2. You can switch characters once you have more than four. So if you think of them as decks, you can cycle through your 8 available cards each turn and the chances of you finding SOMETHING that's useful is pretty high.

3. There's no documentation on this, but it's not all pure chance. The game thinks and pulls out attacks when they are appropriate. For instance if your DEF girl rolls a "GUARD ALL CHARACTERS FOR 1 TURN" skill, the chances the boss is going to do a devastating attack this round is pretty high. Likewise when encounter an enemy that's weak to fire, your mage will roll "FIRE MAGIC ATTACK" first turn pretty much 100%. So the game helps you along.

All of this is important because the difficulty is EXTREME. Basically EO levels. The enemies will hit hard (they all get to act every turn even if only 1 of your chars does!) and the bosses are insane with instant kill and huge all party attacks.

Because of this the game is old-school DQ GRIND-A-THON. You're gonna be constantly walking around in circles next to save points (because you can rest for free there) to build up XP for leveling (increase stats, HP/MP) and to build up MONEY AKA OP.

Money is the most important thing in the game. If you used a cheat code and gave unlimited money from the start the game would be broken and no fun. Money is what balances the game.

At save/rest points you can shop using OP to buy items, which you can guess are fairly useful since you can use 1 per turn. Though between enemy drops, stealing items from enemies and chests you tend to have lots of items all the time.

You can also punish your girls. For a certain amount of OP you can use various weapons to playfully tease your girls. Each weapon has a set of 4 attacks/skills it unlocks for each character and you get a new weapon at the end of every dungeon. For instance the first one is spanking girls with a whip. When you whip the girls you get a goofy little mini-game that's pretty inoffensive. The best you score on the minigame the more points you get and those points fill up their attack/skill bar. If you get "very good" on all the hits, after doing a punishment twice you'll level up the bar and unlock the next attack or skill for the girl.

Oh and while you're doing this you chip away at pictures of the girls in umm creative poses in order to try to distract you and mess up your mini-game timing skills.

The thing is that these are not cheap at all. And each time the attack/skill bar goes up a level, the OP cost to use that punishment and unlock that attack/skill tier goes up. Better weapons unlock better attack/skill sets but are more expensive from the start.

For instance here is the pricing for the first two sets that I've seen:
Whip lvl 1: 10 OP per use
Whip lvl 2: 30 OP per use
Whip lvl 3: 60 OP per use
Whip lvl 4: 100 OP per use

Electric shock lvl 1: 100 OP per use
Electric shock lvl.2: 150 OP per use

So you can see how having to use each one twice and on each girl can cost A LOT when you're getting like 10 OP per enemy in tutorial dungeon and 20 OP per enemy in the first dungeon. Especially if you are buying any items.

Which pretty much means you grind a lot. But grinding is, like EO and DQ and good retro-games, a fairly enjoyable grind. The battles are short, there's no loading, you get item drops, they require a tiny bit of brain power so you're not just mashing O.

But yeah, at the end of the day the game is a grindy dungeon crawl with HARD enemies and little bits of story as you progress through the dungeons. The story is entertaining enough. One of the Famitsu reviewers said he didn't like the story because everyone treated him badly. And yeah I see where he's coming from. If you've ever seen that anime/game where the girl treats the MC like shit even though she secretly like him. That's pretty much how all the girls treat you at first, which kind of makes sense because they're prisoners and your their warden so they hate your character. Whether the girls grow to love the main character through his constant beating them with objects is something I do not know, but I guess the answer to that will tell if the story is a creepy porno story or just your average harem anime or maybe there's really not much difference between the two?

Visually the game looks good enough for the retro style. The art style is enjoyable and the battles are moving stills but if you can enjoy EO it looks fine and keeps them paced quickly.

Audio is a whole different story. The OP song by Yuzo Koshirou (who I'm guessing does the whole ost?) is solid as is the full voice acting. The problem is that like The Last Ranker, Image Epoch has THE WORST SOUND TECHNICIANS IN JAPAN. The game is full voice and 200megs apparently. This is because the voices are recorded at like 2kb/s. Every piece of dialogue is scratchy and sounds like shit. I can't even play with headphones because the scratchiness claws at my ears. Last Ranker also had really LQ voice recordings. UMD is 1.5 GIGS, USE THE SPACE, KTHNX. You'd think in a game that is trying to be a bit of a visual novel-like where there's a bunch of girls with full voice saying moe things that they wouldn't make the voices sound awful, but IE really fails in this department.


So yeah umm, it's an enjoyable, though repetitive and grindy dungeon crawler. If not for the challenge and battle system it wouldn't be worth a look, but if there's one thing Japan shows us they know how to do with this game it's beat women make creative rpg battles systems. I enjoy grindy portable rpgs because running in circles grinding is something to do if you're on an exercise bike or something, which is where I tend to play stuff like this. So I'll keep playing it and see where it goes and hopefully it won't go in a direction that makes me as criminal as well!
 

mollipen

Member
Oct 7, 2005
19,763
3
810
Silent Hill
morningproject.com
I am totally feeling this game from your description other than the fact that I f'n hate old-school RPG grinding.

This is the game I've sworn to play for WAHP at some point, so I'll play it no matter what, but it's a shame because the other elements sound interesting. Really curious now to see if this is going to get an English release or not. Any thoughts on that Bebpo (from your experience with the game so far)?
 

Piano

Banned
Aug 13, 2008
5,561
6
1,210
Still fail to see the appeal of games that let me flirt with / abuse underage cartoons.
 

shuri

Banned
Jun 8, 2004
19,313
1
1,710
Interesting concept, destroyed by pedobait art/concepts and that whole 'you must beat the crap out of girls' concept.
 

Bebpo

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
30,394
7
0
39
Orange County, CA
shidoshi said:
I am totally feeling this game from your description other than the fact that I f'n hate old-school RPG grinding.

This is the game I've sworn to play for WAHP at some point, so I'll play it no matter what, but it's a shame because the other elements sound interesting. Really curious now to see if this is going to get an English release or not. Any thoughts on that Bebpo (from your experience with the game so far)?

If stuff like Argrest Senki comes over, I'd think NISA would bring this over. But there are a few things going against it:

-even though there's no nudity or anything, the whole punishment system when there are some loli looking girls involved might not fly with Sony.

-psp is dead in the US at this point. At least stuff like Agrest, Neptune is on PS3.

-Image Epoch games seem to have problems coming to the US for some reason. 7th Dragon never came out, no word on Capcom bringing out The Last Ranker, Sands of Destruction/ARF came out after a bunch of delays.

So who knows really :X
 

duckroll

Member
Jun 7, 2004
114,734
5
0
39
Bebpo said:
-Image Epoch games seem to have problems coming to the US for some reason. 7th Dragon never came out, no word on Capcom bringing out The Last Ranker, Sands of Destruction/ARF came out after a bunch of delays.

Luminous Arc 3 doesn't look like it's going to be headed over either, and I doubt Fate/Extra will be localized either.
 

cnizzle06

Banned
Oct 13, 2009
3,206
0
0
The game is awesome! It's so hot and new!

*fap* *fap* *fap*

...

Ugh! This game is disgusting! What the hell was I thinking?!
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Jun 18, 2009
62,408
10
1,115
The grindy dungeon crawler fan in me admits to a degree of interest, and I normally have no problem with anime styling but this one...yeah....probably not...
 

cnizzle06

Banned
Oct 13, 2009
3,206
0
0
TheOGB said:
http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx223/cnowak06/woody.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
Oh, that's right...
[IMG]http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx223/cnowak06/4970081790_db47076a22_o-1-1.jpg
Now, I remember what I was thinking...

*zip*
 

Femmeworth

Banned
Aug 4, 2006
29,831
0
0
Texas
The battle system seems interesting, though I still don't like the luck component. The concept and grindy nature of it are definitely a big turnoff. If this gets localized, I will be really pissed since 7th Dragon wasn't. >:\
 

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
Jul 26, 2004
28,047
8
0
Long Island, NY
Great impressions, Bebpo. Glad someone took one for the team and reviewed this game.

I was under the impression that the actual game was gonna be an action RPG for some reason.. the grindy nature is a bit of a turnoff though (I think the concept is hilarious, personally :lol ). Especially since I didn't care for the EO games due to their grindiness.
 

jj984jj

He's a pretty swell guy in my books anyway.
Aug 30, 2005
22,609
0
0
34
Toronto, ON
Etrian Odyssey x Baten Kaitos battles
:eek:

As you beat your girls (will get back to this later) they learn new attacks.
Uhh...

You can also punish your girls. For a certain amount of OP you can use various weapons to playfully tease your girls. Each weapon has a set of 4 attacks/skills it unlocks for each character and you get a new weapon at the end of every dungeon. For instance the first one is spanking girls with a whip. When you whip the girls you get a goofy little mini-game that's pretty inoffensive. The best you score on the minigame the more points you get and those points fill up their attack/skill bar. If you get "very good" on all the hits, after doing a punishment twice you'll level up the bar and unlock the next attack or skill for the girl.

Oh and while you're doing this you chip away at pictures of the girls in umm creative poses in order to try to distract you and mess up your mini-game timing skills.
:lol

It sounds kinda fun though.

Image Epoch doesn't usually handle sound them-selves, the sound in Last Ranker was handled by Capcom with sound effects by TwoFive. Apparently the vocal themes in this game were all done by different composers, and 3 others worked on the in-game music:
http://vgmdb.net/album/20419
 

Grimmy

Banned
Sep 8, 2005
3,025
0
0
So...it just sounds like a newer Dragon Knight II then?

You know, the dungeon crawler where, uhm, you beat your enemies (who are all scantily clad girls dressed as zombies/cats/magicians etc.) and their clothes are torn...
 
Apr 27, 2008
9,869
4
0
Each weapon has a set of 4 attacks/skills it unlocks for each character and you get a new weapon at the end of every dungeon. For instance the first one is spanking girls with a whip. When you whip the girls you get a goofy little mini-game that's pretty inoffensive.
Yeah, probably.





:|
 

Bebpo

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
30,394
7
0
39
Orange County, CA
So I played some more and the only thing I have to add is that this game is fucking hard. It's "OH GOD PLEASE GIVE ME A SAVE/REST SPOT IN THE NEXT ROOM. PLEASE I'M DYING HERE. I HAVEN'T SAVED IN AN HOUR. PLEASEEE" hard. Been a while since I've played a game like this. And I'm still pretty early in the game so the fact that it very well could get even harder kind of scares me. The Famitsu review said it was a high difficulty rpg, and I don't really see them comment on game difficulties often, so now I know why.

Reasons why the game is hard:
-save spots are far apart
-high encounter rate
-enemies have A LOT OF LIFE, so once you run out of MP for strong attacks on the bigger enemies it will take you a few turns to kill one (battles still fast though, few turns = 30 seconds battle max). Your MP is low, you run out fast, no MP restore items yet.
-enemies hit really hard. Your HP is low. Tougher ones are fast and hit first each turn and bigger ones hit ALL PARTY.
-random luck chance of the battle system. Waiting for a turn where you get an MP attack to do good damage. Meanwhile just doing small damage normal attacks.
-STATUS EFFECTS. POISON IS SMT EVIL FFFFFUUUUU. ALL PARTY POISON FU

counter to this all:
-use item every round for healing, status cure, revive.

problem:
-when saves/shops/rest are far apart you start BURNING THROUGH ITEMS >_<

So yeah, ummm...hard game!


Though to be fair I haven't game over'd yet. But that's because I've been really careful and over-grindy and in general I'm good at not dying in rpgs. But even with that I've gotten in really really bad situations I would've been screwed if I'd run out of revive items (which I don't have many!)

afternoon delight said:
Yeah, probably.





:|

I wish someone put up videos of the punishment mini-games on youtube. They're seriously nothing at all. The pre-release marketing made it seems waaaaaay more messed up than it actually is. I'm pretty sure there have been worse things in games like Ar Tonelico or Idea Factory games.
 

duckroll

Member
Jun 7, 2004
114,734
5
0
39
jj984jj said:
Image Epoch doesn't usually handle sound them-selves, the sound in Last Ranker was handled by Capcom with sound effects by TwoFive. Apparently the vocal themes in this game were all done by different composers, and 3 others worked on the in-game music:
http://vgmdb.net/album/20419

When the audio for many of their titles are consistently poor, it means that there is a systemic problem with how they handle sound. It could be that they give poor direction to the sound studios in every game even if they are different teams. Or more likely, they have very crappy sound reproduction because of shitty programming. The actual sound elements could be fine in their original state, but after implementing it into the game, it could sound bad simply because Image Epoch has a bunch of amateurs working there, which would explain a lot of other problems their games have.
 

Femmeworth

Banned
Aug 4, 2006
29,831
0
0
Texas
Bebpo said:
So I played some more and the only thing I have to add is that this game is fucking hard. It's "OH GOD PLEASE GIVE ME A SAVE/REST SPOT IN THE NEXT ROOM. PLEASE I'M DYING HERE. I HAVEN'T SAVED IN AN HOUR. PLEASEEE" hard. Been a while since I've played a game like this. And I'm still pretty early in the game so the fact that it very well could get even harder kind of scares me. The Famitsu review said it was a high difficulty rpg, and I don't really see them comment on game difficulties often, so now I know why.

Reasons why the game is hard:
-save spots are far apart
-high encounter rate
-enemies have A LOT OF LIFE, so once you run out of MP for strong attacks on the bigger enemies it will take you a few turns to kill one (battles still fast though, few turns = 30 seconds battle max). Your MP is low, you run out fast, no MP restore items yet.
-enemies hit really hard. Your HP is low. Tougher ones are fast and hit first each turn and bigger ones hit ALL PARTY.
-random luck chance of the battle system. Waiting for a turn where you get an MP attack to do good damage. Meanwhile just doing small damage normal attacks.
-STATUS EFFECTS. POISON IS SMT EVIL FFFFFUUUUU. ALL PARTY POISON FU

counter to this all:
-use item every round for healing, status cure, revive.

problem:
-when saves/shops/rest are far apart you start BURNING THROUGH ITEMS >_<

So yeah, ummm...hard game!
Sounds like it's a punishment for the people it panders to. I tip my hat to you, imageepoch. Definitely not the kind of game for me.
 

Bebpo

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
30,394
7
0
39
Orange County, CA
Nah, I actually enjoy games like this and EO and hard SMTs because in general rpgs are a joke difficulty-wise these days, and the thrill of every turn in every battle mattering because if things go sour you can loose 40 mins+ of play makes it exciting. If the game was easy it'd be boring and not worth playing.
 

mollipen

Member
Oct 7, 2005
19,763
3
810
Silent Hill
morningproject.com
Bebpo said:
-enemies have A LOT OF LIFE, so once you run out of MP for strong attacks on the bigger enemies it will take you a few turns to kill one (battles still fast though, few turns = 30 seconds battle max). Your MP is low, you run out fast, no MP restore items yet.

This was what I felt really ruined my fun with Crimson Gem Saga. It only took a handful of encounters to eat through your MP, and at that point, encounters past that were brutally long.
 

Ellis Kim

Banned
Apr 12, 2010
3,407
0
0
Bay Area, CA
shuri said:
Interesting concept, destroyed by pedobait art/concepts and that whole 'you must beat the crap out of girls' concept.
I imagine that the other games that the OP refers to (Etrian Odyssey, for example) would be better up your alley, then? :/

Oh and while you're doing this you chip away at pictures of the girls in umm creative poses in order to try to distract you and mess up your mini-game timing skills.
:lol :lol
 

Bebpo

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
30,394
7
0
39
Orange County, CA
shidoshi said:
This was what I felt really ruined my fun with Crimson Gem Saga. It only took a handful of encounters to eat through your MP, and at that point, encounters past that were brutally long.

They aren't brutally long though, it's not about the extra turns needed slowing down the pacing but rather that the enemies hit so hard and your healing items are limited so you want to finish the enemies ASAP. Special attacks do about 2-3x damage of a normal attack and take out enemies in 1-2 hits, so 1-2 turns of your characters getting hit, not too bad. Once you're out of MP it's more like 4-5 turns of your characters getting hit, this can equal some serious damage to your party that you'll need to heal. And when you're running into an encounter every 5-10 seconds that eats through items fast.
 

Bebpo

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
30,394
7
0
39
Orange County, CA
Ok, so I finished this and it was flawed but good.

First of all, the concept behind the game was to make a KEY game. For those who stay away from anime/icecream threads, KEY writes a specific style of visual novel which my friend calls the "sad girls club". Their games (Kanon, Air, Clannad, etc...) are about a bunch of girls who are traumatized by horribly depressing pasts and through the help of the main character they are able to overcome their traumas and live happy lives. The idea is the player gets to "white knight" a bunch of virtual women and save them and then feel appreciated in return. Yeah, I'm not even going to try to defend that from a societal standpoint. But the other reason why KEY games are popular is because they're very well written with richly developed characters and emotionally strong tales.

Criminal Girls was Niinou saying let's make a KEY game but instead of the gameplay consisting of sitting and reading 1,000 pages+ of boxes of text, let's make the gameplay an exciting fresh SMT/EO dungeon crawler. Sounds fine to me since I hate reading pages of pages of Japanese text and I love dungeon crawlers!

The battle system is quite good from start to finish. There's a bit more luck involved than a normal rpg, but managing your party by switching members in and out every turn and using items and buffing/debuffing and using support skills and knowing when to defend takes a good amount of strategy. The battles are quick and look fine.

The game balance is the best of any Image Epoch game I've played. It's a similar curve to an SMT game where it starts off HARD when you're abilities are limited, then gets easier and falls into a normal FF difficult in the 2nd half and then at the end it gets tough again and the final boss will hurt you, bad. Sands of Destruction & Last Ranker had some of the worst gameplay balance I've ever seen, so this was a good improvement. The field skills are all useful so as you get those it makes things more manageable and crawling more fun.

The story was surprisingly nice. If you can ignore the marketing that tried to sell the game as some perverted harem game, the actual story is a lot closer to Haibane Renmei meets KEY than anything in the fanservice department. The story is about these girls who've sinned in their past life and have to come to terms with their pasts that have emotionally traumatized them and through the help of the MC they overcome their tragic pasts so they can be reincarnated. The backstories for each girl are actually quite good and some of them are pretty powerful. The music and acting accompanying these depressing stories is really well done and makes them stick out as something beyond your average jrpg tale. Similarly to a KEY game, the main character narrates his thought bubbles and like KEY type games, in the end you get to choose a girl and get a specific girl ending complete with vocal song by that girl. From a story perspective it's essentially an icecream genre of visual novel plot.

The art is also really good. Dungeons has all kinds of nice effects running through them, the enemies/bosses are well designed and the characters and menus are all quite nice. No matter how good or bad an Image Epoch game is, their art department is always top notch. They are artists first, then game developers and it shows. But their game development is getting better all the time.

Music is alright. There's one section with really nice SMT-ish depressing piano music, but the rest is fairly typical.

Length is also not bad. Game takes about 20 hours for the main game with 7 branches and endings right after the final save point. I would do some of the others but the last boss is REALLY F-ING HARD. When I died 8-10 mins into my first attempt and the boss was 2-3 hits from dying and my character did "REVIVE ALL ALLIES AND HEAL ALL" super move and then the boss acted first and killed that character I raaaaged :( 2nd time I had better luck and my best character kept rolling their ultimate attack "no damage all party for 2 rounds" and I baaaarely made it through. Needless to say I do not want to fight that boss anymore! But yeah, on top of the main 20 hour game with 7 ending paths there are two bonus dungeons with true final boss + ending #1 and true true final boss + ending #2. So it'll take about 30-35 hours to do it all if you want.

Now the problems with the game, as there are a bunch.

First of all the punishment system is awful. It adds absolutely nothing to the game and only detracts from it. It feels entirely like it was thrown in by the marketing department so they could advertise the game to the creepy market, similar to how they'll throw annoying moe characters into a mecha show for no reason but to try to appeal to the moe audience and gain more sales. The punishment system in gameplay ends up being annoying because you have to do all these stupid mini-games over and over to unlock all your skills/abilities for the entire game. The mini-games are shallow and the controls are more annoying than fun. The ero side of them is also lame and feels completely disconnected from the sad drama story going on in the plot. If they ditched the punishment system I'd give the game a half point more because it'd help the pacing and get rid of the stupid.

Second of all the game is fairly repetitive. There's like 5 main dungeons and 2 bonus dungeons for a 20-35 hour game. There are no towns or anything else. You walk through the dungeon, keep getting into random battles, watch cutscenes along the way, and fight the boss. Which is fine for a story-based dungeon crawler, but there definitely could've been something a little more. There are sidequests but they just involve warping back to an old floor or two and picking up an item. The game can also be kind of grindy if you let it, especially if you have OCD and have to unlock every skill/ability currently available before moving on. My advice would be to never grind and just keep moving and you'll probably be ok. Just think of picking which skills/abilities you want as being part of the strategy.

And lastly the luck factor isn't perfect, because luck-based battles really can't be. For the most part I think the Baten Kaitos style luck of the draw helps the battle system be more fun and exciting, but at the same time every so often you can be annoyed by it. I'm glad it's there and I do like the battle system but I also think it's a flaw; hard to put my finger on it.

Overall I enjoyed Criminal Girls. The story was touching and the dungeon crawling along with the battles were exciting. But at the same time I'm glad it's not a hugely long game as it was fairly repetitive and all those hours I spent doing minigames were a blot on an otherwise good rpg. Because of the flaws and the creepy marketing it's not really a game I'd recommend to most people, but even so it's definitely the best Image Epoch game I've played having played Sands of Destruction, The Last Ranker, and some of Arc Rise Fantasia. CG shows me that Image Epoch is getting better at making good gameplay systems with actual BALANCE to go along with their nice art. Makes me want to play 7th Dragon as I hear it was pretty similar and may be their best game to date.

If it wasn't for the punishment system it'd be ~a B+, but as is it's more of a B- game.