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[Crowbcat] overpromise, sell, underdeliver Cyberpunk 2077

Damian black

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Feb 9, 2019
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You're still just taking about extraneous stuff that doesn't have anything to do with the actual game. And the game is immersive and has choices and shit. And I can't remember them specifically hyping up the a.i for the cops. Even that doesn't really matter. It only becomes really noticeable when you go on a stupid GTA rampage and gun down a load of NPCs for no reason. It doesn't have anything to do with the story.


When games 15 years older do that better, you know you fucked up big time.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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Is this game the next generation No Man's Sky?

Also, is this going to be improved at the same level as No Man's Sky over the years?
Really depends which pre-release shenanigans and final release state you think worse:

2077
- preview vids were high spec PC (although I thought one was PS4 Pro? maybe not)
- hooked in endless gaming sites and YT people with NDAs
- these people were forced to play high spec PC versions with zero info about crappy base console games
- tons of bugs, shitty AI logic, graphic issues
- patch happy
- it got so bad they offered refunds, MS/Sony tagged along and I think even Gamestop did refunds too

NMS
- preview vids were total bullshot in terms of graphics, content and your spaceship zooming in/out of orbit (that jurassic park theme YT video is the best)
- Sean Murray asked a million questions about content, even went on a talk show and said YES to everything with a dumb smirk on his face every time
- game released with shallow content and not even close to the bullshot vids or content he said yes to
 
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aries_71

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the CP2077 defenders coming out of the woodwork after this video is priceless to me. Such a strange culture
In fact I'd like to see some kind of psychological study on it. Their emotional involvement with a company, its marketing strategy and subpar product is bizarre. Never seen such involvement this side of the football/sports world.
 
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harmny

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Most of the footage on this video is PC footage. When a 19 years older games do physics and interactions better than you , no PC power tower can save you.

it can because the focus of the game is not open world physics and random interactions. that's why those aspects of the game are so barebones. still the world has better random interactions than the witcher 3. a game that had none and people love still love it. tw3 was voted game of the generation on neogaf and if you compare that game with rdr2 you'll see that you can't do anything in the open world.

you know why? because the game is a narrative driven open world action adventure rpg. they especifically said this is not gta but a story driven experience. so reviewers are scoring the game based on the way it's meant to be played. basically doing the main quest and side quests. experiencing the stories cdpr created. if you play the game like you played the witcher 3 you can have a great experience. clearly 10/10 for some people. however, if you play the game as gta or saints row it's going to suck.

and if you try to play rdr2 as cyberpunk it's going to suck because first of all it has no dialogue choices but also as soon as you do something rockstar doesn't like it's mission failed. too fast? mission failed. too slow? mission failed. blinked twice? mission failed. but it's fine because everybody knows rockstar makes extremely linear missions and detailed worlds and nobody cares. well cdpr in the witcher 3 and cyberpunk made detailed missions and worlds that are mostly just a backdrop. same design philosphy except no one cared in the witcher 3 because you didn't have guns and cars. or you couldn't kill civilians. (and cyberpunk is not the only game where that happens. it happens in most open world action adventure rpgs)

of course you can find lots of videos showing how the open world is much better in rockstar games. it's easy and funny to do. but you aren't going to find videos showing how cdpr has the best AAA quests especially side quests in the industry. a much more difficult and boring thing to compare. i'd say one gig in cyberpunk is better than most rockstar missions. but there is no point in comparing those 2. because they are different games. which is what people aren't getting. and that's a lesson for cdpr.
 

nkarafo

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Just saw the video.

Boy, it's worse than i ever imagine. Is this thing even patchable at this point?
 

Aceofspades

is a 9 year old console warrior
Mar 31, 2015
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it can because the focus of the game is not open world physics and random interactions. that's why those aspects of the game are so barebones. still the world has better random interactions than the witcher 3. a game that had none and people love still love it. tw3 was voted game of the generation on neogaf and if you compare that game with rdr2 you'll see that you can't do anything in the open world.

you know why? because the game is a narrative driven open world action adventure rpg. they especifically said this is not gta but a story driven experience. so reviewers are scoring the game based on the way it's meant to be played. basically doing the main quest and side quests. experiencing the stories cdpr created. if you play the game like you played the witcher 3 you can have a great experience. clearly 10/10 for some people. however, if you play the game as gta or saints row it's going to suck.

and if you try to play rdr2 as cyberpunk it's going to suck because first of all it has no dialogue choices but also as soon as you do something rockstar doesn't like it's mission failed. too fast? mission failed. too slow? mission failed. blinked twice? mission failed. but it's fine because everybody knows rockstar makes extremely linear missions and detailed worlds and nobody cares. well cdpr in the witcher 3 and cyberpunk made detailed missions and worlds that are mostly just a backdrop. same design philosphy except no one cared in the witcher 3 because you didn't have guns and cars. or you couldn't kill civilians. (and cyberpunk is not the only game where that happens. it happens in most open world action adventure rpgs)

of course you can find lots of videos showing how the open world is much better in rockstar games. it's easy and funny to do. but you aren't going to find videos showing how cdpr has the best AAA quests especially side quests in the industry. a much more difficult and boring thing to compare. i'd say one gig in cyberpunk is better than most rockstar missions. but there is no point in comparing those 2. because they are different games. which is what people aren't getting. and that's a lesson for cdpr.

CDPR entire messaging was about how lively the world they created. I don't get your point about the AI and physics not being the focus! They are part of the overall package, they have to be there simply to have a relatable and believable package.

So what's your excuse for the bugs then? Or the dumb police? Or floating characters, or hollow buildings? Are you gonna say that.. "they are not the focus"?

What is the focus then? Creating a buggy mess, wrapped in shallow story?

Also what is your definition of detailed vs linear missions?

It seems like you are blindly defending CDPR for some reason, its ok if you like the game but it doesn't mean you should turn a blind eye to its glaring issues.
 

harmny

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In fact I'd like to see some kind of psychological study on it. Their emotional involvement with a company, its marketing strategy and subpar product is bizarre. Never seen such involvement this side of the football/sports world.

i can't speak for others but i don't have any emotional involment with the company. i do like defending developers for the most part though because nobody gives a shit about them (and i work in a creative enviroment so i get them) and i just don't like unfair criticisms. cyberpunk is just the hot topic these days.

let me give you an example.

- saying that the random ai and the interactivity of the world is bad is a fair criticism. they suck. you are never going to see me say that those 2 things are great. why would i? they're awful.

- saying that those 2 things mean that the game sucks lol 5/10 gta 3 a 15 year old game is better it's not fair criticism.
cyberpunk is not a free roaming sandbox where the core gameplay is killing people and escaping from the police. it's a narrative driven game the same way the witcher 3 is a narrative driven game. you have 50+ hours of quests to do. play the game instead of shooting at people walking down the street and you'll probably enjoy it.

saying that cdpr said that the world was more interactive is fair criticism too. they did say that.
but they also said that the game was not gta and you have to play it as a story driven experience. still the world is more interactive than their previous game. witcher 3. which was clearly a mistake.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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i can't speak for others but i don't have any emotional involment with the company. i do like defending developers for the most part though because nobody gives a shit about them (and i work in a creative enviroment so i get them) and i just don't like unfair criticisms. cyberpunk is just the hot topic these days.

let me give you an example.

- saying that the random ai and the interactivity of the world is bad is a fair criticism. they suck. you are never going to see me say that those 2 things are great. why would i? they're awful.

- saying that those 2 things mean that the game sucks lol 5/10 gta 3 a 15 year old game is better it's not fair criticism.
cyberpunk is not a free roaming sandbox where the core gameplay is killing people and escaping from the police. it's a narrative driven game the same way the witcher 3 is a narrative driven game. you have 50+ hours of quests to do. play the game instead of shooting at people walking down the street and you'll probably enjoy it.

saying that cdpr said that the world was more interactive is fair criticism too. they did say that.
but they also said that the game was not gta and you have to play it as a story driven experience. still the world is more interactive than their previous game. witcher 3. which was clearly a mistake.
If it's not a sandbox game, then why does the home page still promote it as open world? Everyone knows that the term "open world" means sandbox. And the way CDPR promoted this game as a giant cyberpunk city where you can do hat you want and roam around, it's supposed to be open world. Like playing Skyrim or Fallout roaming the land and doing side missions instead of the main story.


Cyberpunk 2077 is an open-world, action-adventure story set in Night City, a megalopolis obsessed with power, glamour and body modification. You play as V, a mercenary outlaw going after a one-of-a-kind implant that is the key to immortality. You can customize your character’s cyberware, skillset and playstyle, and explore a vast city where the choices you make shape the story and the world around you.
 

harmny

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CDPR entire messaging was about how lively the world they created. I don't get your point about the AI and physics not being the focus! They are part of the overall package, they have to be there simply to have a relatable and believable package.

So what's your excuse for the bugs then? Or the dumb police? Or floating characters, or hollow buildings? Are you gonna say that.. "they are not the focus"?

What is the focus then? Creating a buggy mess, wrapped in shallow story?

Also what is your definition of detailed vs linear missions?

It seems like you are blindly defending CDPR for some reason, its ok if you like the game but it doesn't mean you should turn a blind eye to its glaring issues.

i explained many times before that saying that your game has a "living breathing open world" doesn't mean anything. every company says that. it's just a nice vague phrase. AC said that. HZD said that. GoT said that. and all of those worlds are static. they did say that every npc has a day and night cycle. and they failed in that regard. but i really didn't care about npcs in the witcher 3 so i didn't care about them in cyberpunk. again. not the focus of the game.

dumb police - not the focus of the game. the focus of the game is doing quests. my opinion though? shouldn't have been in the game in the first place along with killing civilians. make the world even more static like the witcher 3 that everybody loved. force people to just do quests and everybody would like the game.

bugs, floating characters hollow buildings - no excuse lol. of course i played the game on a high end pc so i had almost none of that. but there is no excuse for how buggy the game is. especially on consoles. good thing cdpr offered no questions asked refunds even after people beat the game. let's see if they can fix it.

the focus is creating a narrative driven open world experience. you do quests set in an open world enviroment. again same as the wticher 3. if the story is shallow or not it's subjective. i liked the writing the story and especially the characters. some people hated all of those things though. if you don't like that you are not going to like the game.

i'm not going to go into detail my post is already too long but i think it's easy to know what i mean when i say rockstar mission design and cdpr mission design is different.

i'm not blinding defending cdpr at all. like i said i don't like unfair criticisms. i'm sure you and i agree on many things.
 

harmny

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If it's not a sandbox game, then why does the home page still promote it as open world? Everyone knows that the term "open world" means sandbox. And the way CDPR promoted this game as a giant cyberpunk city where you can do hat you want and roam around, it's supposed to be open world. Like playing Skyrim or Fallout roaming the land and doing side missions instead of the main story.


Cyberpunk 2077 is an open-world, action-adventure story set in Night City, a megalopolis obsessed with power, glamour and body modification. You play as V, a mercenary outlaw going after a one-of-a-kind implant that is the key to immortality. You can customize your character’s cyberware, skillset and playstyle, and explore a vast city where the choices you make shape the story and the world around you.

open world doesn't mean sandbox. witcher 3 is open world and the game is not a sandbox. open world just means that you have a big map and you can go wherever you want instead of having small hubs or a corridor.
 

Inxes

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I think you can't judge a game based on what's not there. If it's not there then it's not there and it isn't a factor. Would everyone suddenly hate Shadow of the Colossus if they found out that there were ten more boss fights that got cut just before release?
If it was not promised, then there is no reason to hate it.
These guys said things would be there that are not, that's not the same.
 

THEAP99

reposts tweets from kids about console wars
Mar 16, 2020
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Anyone else find it strange how a lot games xbox has marketing for somehow flunder? They have real bad luck this past gen lol

Battlefield v.
Fallout 76
Cyberpunk
Anthem
 
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GaviotaGrande

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Jun 11, 2019
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Man, I really, really liked Cyberpunk 2077 but I would never defend some of the bullshit that certain people are going above and beyond to defend on this forum. Sad!

Anyone else find it strange how a lot games xbox has marketing for somehow flunder? They have real bad luck this past gen lol

Battlefield v.
Fallout 76
Cyberpunk
Anthem

Hey, I really like Fallout 76. Given I'm playing it in 2021 with all the patches and added content but it's a solid game. Not a good Fallout, but definitely a decent enough looter-shooter.
 
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newtypepilot

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lol u know it's good when the video is over 40min long

most overhyped game and most disastrous launch 2020. Even if you take away the bugs and glitches, this game has so many questionable game design choices that it's mind boggling this took 8 years to develop.
 

kuncol02

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If it's not a sandbox game, then why does the home page still promote it as open world? Everyone knows that the term "open world" means sandbox. And the way CDPR promoted this game as a giant cyberpunk city where you can do hat you want and roam around, it's supposed to be open world. Like playing Skyrim or Fallout roaming the land and doing side missions instead of the main story.
Open world != Sandbox game
Witcher 3 is open world game, but it's not sandbox. Same for Skyrim, Fallout, Stalker or even early Assassin's Creed games.
 
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s-bojan

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Apr 15, 2012
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Biggest flop in gaming history, and the second most disgraceful after Fallout 76.
I want to develop a flop that will sell 13 million copies at a full price :).

Just saw the video.

Boy, it's worse than i ever imagine. Is this thing even patchable at this point?
Game is mostly fine on a pc now, it will get better with future patches.
This is the compilation of the worst bugs people experienced, your playthrough would not look anything like that.
Honestly, it really depends how you want to play the game. If you want to play it like GTA5 and wreak havoc, you will be disappointed.
This game has other strengths.
 
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Burger

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Interesting how much the game was scaled back, walked back over the years. You can do X!... Well, you can't really do X....

Clearly the marketing overtook everything else. Hype went to 11. For whatever reason CDPR couldn't shut their fucking mouths. All those fucking hot takes from assholes who had no idea.

It's not a scam, because nobody won.
 

Pietanic

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One of the biggest disappointments in recent times. I got it day one for PS5 (backwards compatibility obviously) no issues with my PS5 until this piece of shit touched it. So many crashes within the first few days.

I went back to plying ghost of Tsushima which I was LTTP on. Having a blast with that and genuinely feel no draw to go back to CP2077. They got me with their marketing machine, well played CDPR. What a mess of a game, shite AI. Shite RPG mechanics, to me it just seemed you were better going in and blasting stuff guns blazing. This will always be a reminder to me to keep my hype in check. Was really expecting something evolutionary but this was just a joke at launch. Might jump back in when the next gen patch launches but that looks to be 6 months away. The writing was on the wall for a long time, I was stupid not to see it. Even on PC the AI is still absolute dogshit, even though it looks and plays better. That was the most immersion breaking thing that it does not feel like a real city.
 

namekuseijin

Nintendo is for soys and kids. But my tears about them are for men.
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Isn't it a waste of resources, especially on a console which does not have quality settings, to cycle all the LOD models instead of focusing all the loading time of assets to just show high poly model?
What's the pint of loading all those low poly models ?

sure thing, pal

expect your framerate to hit constant 5fps with all those high level polygonal LODs in the distance taking away time to render just to fill 50 pixels of screen estate
 
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Ammogeddon

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Really well put together video which highlights the issues with games journalism and influencers as well.

I’m gutted CP2077 has turned out the way it has. There’s a lot to be said about the bugs but as the video shows there are many more issues than just that.

After seeing their “roadmap” I’ve decided to get a refund. I’m not even sure I’ll get it again once the next gen update comes along. That’s just window dressing. They’ll need to make significant changes before I jump back in.
 

Cyberpunkd

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More than launch (I play on XSX and had very little bugs), I'm really disappointed in how they handled the story. They had seeds there with Johnny to do something great.
 
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rofif

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sure thing, pal

expect your framerate to hit constant 5fps with all those high level polygonal LODs in the distance taking away time to render just to fill 50 pixels of screen estate
I am talking UP CLOSE. when you load a game and see it cycle through all 3 lod models and You are just there
 

STARSBarry

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If he's back with another unfair and preposterous video to shit on a game he can go back into hiding.

His videos are funny but are in no way grounded in reality, he's cherry picking and misreporting statements for comedy.

Takes clip of developer or news article from developer stating something, shows how game delivered on said spoken or written promise.

Is apparently "misreporting" despite never speaking a word and only showing existing clips...

OK Boomer.
 

Ammogeddon

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If he's back with another unfair and preposterous video to shit on a game he can go back into hiding.

His videos are funny but are in no way grounded in reality, he's cherry picking and misreporting statements for comedy.

All he has done is stitch together things CDPR, journalists and influencers have said, and preview footage then compared them to footage of what people have actually experienced in the game that was released. He didn’t even give his own opinion.

If you can find a more objective take I’d be keen to watch it.
 

SJRB

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If he's back with another unfair and preposterous video to shit on a game he can go back into hiding.

His videos are funny but are in no way grounded in reality, he's cherry picking and misreporting statements for comedy.
I don't understand how you can say this, unless you didn't see the video yet. The comparisons with San Andreas and other games from 10+ years ago are 100% legit. 2077 misses mechanics that have been common in open world games for multiple generations now.

Besides that all he does is take quotes from CDPR devs and the likes, and compares these to the final product.
 

kuncol02

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If he's back with another unfair and preposterous video to shit on a game he can go back into hiding.

His videos are funny but are in no way grounded in reality, he's cherry picking and misreporting statements for comedy.
Yeah. Watching his gears video after playing all of them made me fell like I'm in some bizzaro world.
 

Hypereides

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I really think Cyberpunk would've benefitted more if CD projekt stayed with their 3rd person RPG roots. Why they chose to abandon that is beyond me. Especially, if the rumors of it originally being just that; a 3rd person RPG.

Also, if this is the future of AAA games, releasing in an incomplete state akin to No man's sky, Anthem, and Fallout 76, then this next/new gen, and what comes after, is gonna be a riot.

In regards to the video:

24:50: Oh ffs, drop this metrics shit. There can be a multitude of reasons as to why some people didn't finish a game immediately. Some will play it to completion from start-to-finish, some will do it over an exteneded period, and some won't complete it at all. None of that necessarily equates to a game being bad either. No wonder AAA are becoming so mindnumbingly shallow when they've resorted to oversimplifying of depth due to some metrics.

These AAA devs really need to stop relying on statistics as some kind of foolproof legitimacy. Really explains why AAA games are regressing in gameplay depth and/or player agency if this is their prized approach.

37:13: The head of the Wroclaw studio should understand that endless crunching will quite likely reflect in the final product.

Funny video aside I didn't know Saints Row 1 had such nice physics.


Game physics are legit a lost art. Some 7th gen games did some impressive shit on that account which still manages to outdo most modern games somehow.
 
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rolandss

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Mar 9, 2017
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LMAAAO, that ending..


The more I see these kind of videos, the more I'm convinced they chopped off the entire world, mechanics, AI, and features in order to make the game run on consoles; but they still undelivered on almost all fronts due to the lack of time, clearly.

If they had decided to cancel the console versions all along, back then when they were just still under production, and had made it exclusive for just PC platforms till the new consoles had settled right into the generation; I feel we'd have gotten a completely different game by now, worthy of the hype that's been built since the 2012 reveal.
I don’t think it was to run on consoles they did that. There’s some big, ambitious, complex console titles that deliver in spades. I think it’s plainly obvious they just released the game a year or two too early. I just think it got to the point where their ambition exceeded the team’s ability to deliver to their communicated deadlines and in order to try meet those deadlines they cut content and scaled back their vision. At the end of the day it’s clearly just poor execution, as they failed to bring all the threads together they’d been talking about this game having for the past 6-7 years.
 

waquzy

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The game has a metric ton of problems, not gonna lie (unbearable console performance being the main offender imo), but this video is hyperbolic. But it was entertaining nonetheless.
I would say the main offender is the soulless city, it’s infested with non-existent cops AI, lifeless NPC’s and places you can’t interact with. That’s the biggest problem with the game.
 

ripeavocado

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I don't understand how you can say this, unless you didn't see the video yet. The comparisons with San Andreas and other games from 10+ years ago are 100% legit. 2077 misses mechanics that have been common in open world games for multiple generations now.

Besides that all he does is take quotes from CDPR devs and the likes, and compares these to the final product.

Cherry picking, is doing anything he can to present a biased view on the game.
There is no one more biased and intellectually dishonest other than that donkey guy which also "reviews" games.

Yes Cyberpunk 2077 has many bugs and issues but the video make them appear more common or annoying that they are and many of them have been fixed few days after release, most of the footage is from the day one version.

And by the way some content can be cut, there is no need to cry about ads that don't change based on V and other bullshit that is missing.
 
Aug 26, 2018
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Sure, fine, defend the game all you want and say there are barely any bugs but....ive never seen IN MY LIFE a full game come out with missing textures and lettering as placement holders. I saw that shit in the leaked HL2 alpha that was 2 years from release. These guys pushed out a game that didnt even have textures ready for some areas....i mean WTF lol.
 

OnionSnake

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Dec 29, 2020
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Interesting how much the game was scaled back, walked back over the years. You can do X!... Well, you can't really do X....

Clearly the marketing overtook everything else. Hype went to 11. For whatever reason CDPR couldn't shut their fucking mouths. All those fucking hot takes from assholes who had no idea.

It's not a scam, because nobody won.
I avoided most of the prerelease stuff for this game on purpose, looked like a cool game so wanted to go in fresh. And man this video showed how much they had to cut out and I’m really glad I did avoid that stuff or I may have succumbed to the preorder allure and might be one of the ones trying to defend a shallow “open world” “RPG” right now.

wild ass development for this game lol
 
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SJRB

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Cherry picking, is doing anything he can to present a biased view on the game.
There is no one more biased and intellectually dishonest other than that donkey guy which also "reviews" games.

Yes Cyberpunk 2077 has many bugs and issues but the video make them appear more common or annoying that they are and many of them have been fixed few days after release, most of the footage is from the day one version.

And by the way some content can be cut, there is no need to cry about ads that don't change based on V and other bullshit that is missing.
I'm confused how this is even a matter of opinion for you. We're not talking about bugs and glitches, we're talking about missing features that are so fundamentally basic for open world games since GTAIII and San Andreas that it is utterly shocking that they're not in this game.

Example: There is no reason, literally no reason to NOT expect the game to have cops reacting to things that happen in the game world. Why? Because this has been a default since it was introduced in games like GTAIII.

Another example: I cannot think of any open world game to date that has poorer NPC reactions than this game. They have one panick state, and literally despawn when out of fov because the game has no systems in place to properly deal with the situation.

These aren't bugs, showing them side by side with games like like Mafia or Saints Row isn't cherry picking because it is insane that a 2020 flagship title gets owned by some b-tier game from 15 years ago.

It's okay to appreciate the good stuff Cyberpunk does, while at the same time criticizing the [very] bad stuff.
 

Damian black

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Feb 9, 2019
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Cherry picking, is doing anything he can to present a biased view on the game.
There is no one more biased and intellectually dishonest other than that donkey guy which also "reviews" games.

Yes Cyberpunk 2077 has many bugs and issues but the video make them appear more common or annoying that they are and many of them have been fixed few days after release, most of the footage is from the day one version.

And by the way some content can be cut, there is no need to cry about ads that don't change based on V and other bullshit that is missing.

You sound like a corporate apologist.

The video presented the legit e experience a lot of people had on day one but, somehow thats dishonest according to you.
 
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