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[Crowbcat] overpromise, sell, underdeliver Cyberpunk 2077

OnionSnake

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Dec 29, 2020
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the implication is that cdpr focused on great quests and side quests. basically the narrative aspect of the game. you immerse yourself in the world by doing the missions instead of killing and robbing people on the street.

gta mission design on the other hand:
you turned right - mission failed
you turned left - mission failed
you blinked twice - mission failed
you jumped too high - mission failed

yeah you know what i mean. i am not saying gta is a bad game. they just focus on different things.
I feel like I could immerse myself like that in the worlds of Red Dead and GTA especially San Andreas it's not just "killing and robbing people on the street" but alright... :/
 

harmny

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I feel like I could immerse myself like that in the worlds of Red Dead and GTA especially San Andreas it's not just "killing and robbing people on the street" but alright... :/

oh for sure. i'm just saying where the focus in cyberpunk is. rockstar makes extremely linear stories and missions and detailed worlds. cdpr on the other hand focused all their talent in quests. the witcher 3 was the same thing and i don't see anyone comparing that game to red dead redemption. i know why though. because cyberpunk allows you to kill civilians.
 

Justin9mm

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May 9, 2018
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GTA V has a shockingly bad story that for some reason they get a pass on. The only thing it does better than CP2077 is AI, customization and it did run better on the older consoles. People complain about Night City feeling lifeless but GTA V has all these bars and clubs where you can get drunk with the other protagonists and you can't enter a single one of them. CP might need better food stands and restaurants but at least it has them unlike GTA V which doesn't have a single food stand except for the convenience store and it doesn't even have the fast food places that were a part of San Andreas and GTA IV. It barely has any interiors at all yet somehow gets a pass.
Yeah but at least the exterior city in GTAV had a lot of life / things going on. I'm playing CP on PS5 on version 1.06 and there is literally hardly any people or cars around the city, its completely empty.. You drive around on almost empty roads, its completely lifeless in some areas, there is literally no one around. They really need to fix that shit. The pedestrians don't react or interact with you like they should.. You can tell they are literally on a program cycle. You don't even feel that in GTA.
 

Halo is Dead

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The best part of that entire video was the lego city traffic comparison. R* comparisons are always low hanging fruit because they are the best in the biz making detailed worlds but MAN that lego city part was just sooo brutal :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

harmny

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Yeah but at least the exterior city in GTAV had a lot of life / things going on. I'm playing CP on PS5 on version 1.06 and there is literally hardly any people or cars around the city, its completely empty.. You drive around on almost empty roads, its completely lifeless in some areas, there is literally no one around. They really need to fix that shit. The pedestrians don't react or interact with you like they should.. You can tell they are literally on a program cycle. You don't even feel that in GTA.

you might have to wait for the next gen patch. at least you'll get more pedestrians. though how interactive they are well... don't get your hopes up. i think they'll do something though because the backlash has been brutal
 

Woggleman

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Yeah but at least the exterior city in GTAV had a lot of life / things going on. I'm playing CP on PS5 on version 1.06 and there is literally hardly any people or cars around the city, its completely empty.. You drive around on almost empty roads, its completely lifeless in some areas, there is literally no one around. They really need to fix that shit. The pedestrians don't react or interact with you like they should.. You can tell they are literally on a program cycle. You don't even feel that in GTA.
I have heard the PS5 is bare because honestly I am playing on Series X on performance and the streets are filled with people. Different parts of night city are more crowded than others but that is natural. I am not doubting your experience but mine is different.
 

EDMIX

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the focus is clear. the game is a narrative driven rpg.

Nah, even CDPR is not calling this an RPG.


that's why everyone is complainig the game sucks compared to gta in the open world aspect

Well not really, it sucks compared to MOST open wrold titles as enemies that drive cars in the free world and cops chasing you and smart AI are not GTA exclusive concepts.

That as found in Mafia 1 remake and Watchdogs Legions last year. Not because they are GTA, but because that concept fits an actual city with crime, cars and cops.

The issues with CP2077 having nothing really to do with it supposedly being a "RPG" and everything to do with it trying to make a "living breathable city" while ignore the features that actually support that concept. Not simply just from GTA, but the whole fucking industry.

Would be like saying guns shooting and killing people is comparing games to Doom, "we better not have guns shoot and kill people in our game about crime bro".


the focus was on the story the characters and the quests.

Sir...I don't disagree with you in regards to that is what the result is, but that is not what they are marketing to consumers. Blame them for the GTA comparisons as its only logical to make that comparison considering the very fucking title they are making is about a city, cops, cars, gangs, crime etc. They days of saying shit like Watchdogs is copying GTA or Sleeping Dogs or Mafia or anything like that for many hardcore gamers is long over. Many understand those concepts go hand and hand with making a open world as GTA doesn't own the fucking concept of driving cars and cop chases.

That is simply an obvious feature in a world with those components.

So they are not saying they are going to be the "next generation of RPG single player" , nah, they are saying shit like this


Yet you are shocked that we are making such a comparison after such a massive claim? CDPR wanted the smoke, they got it.
 

AutumnLeaves

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Aug 13, 2020
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the implication is that cdpr focused on great quests and side quests. basically the narrative aspect of the game. you immerse yourself in the world by doing the missions instead of killing and robbing people on the street.

gta mission design on the other hand:
you turned right - mission failed
you turned left - mission failed
you blinked twice - mission failed
you jumped too high - mission failed

yeah you know what i mean. i am not saying gta is a bad game. they just focus on different things.

What the heck AM I reading? Good lord!
 
May 8, 2019
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The "Senior Level Designer" Miles Tost douchebag CDPR they kept showing really didn't know what the fuck he was doing with this kind of game. This video was really scathing in showing how badly they fucked this game up after nearly a decade. I'm not even confident they can fix all of this stuff in a year.
 

EDMIX

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It must be so exhausting defending a game so much. I know a lot of posters here who hate RDR2 but that will never take away the love I have for that game. It's pointless trying to change peoples personal tastes or opinions so just sit back, relax and enjoy the games you like.

This game makes my issues with Red Dead Redemption 2 seem completely trivial.

After beating Red Dead Redemption 2 of course I hated the weird auto fail system in some of the missions and I didn't care for how they wrote Arthur Morgan and I also had an issue with them not letting you rob banks in the open world as well as the weird animation where you're forced to walk, but playing the complete fucking train wreck that is cyberpunk 2077....maybe that is light.

Looking back at Red Dead Redemption 2 it's easy to realize I wish that was simply the fucking problem I had with cyberpunk lol

My game crashed over 30 times and the games world was completely fucking a lifeless with NPCs behaving like they had lobotomies. The game fundamentally has so many problems I'm willing to forgive a few fucking bugs but my God even if they're able to correct these things, the real actual problem is the fundamental design of the game and how they falsely marketed something that literally didn't exist and then continued to leave that content on their YouTube page while at the same time issuing a hollow apology that never addresses the ridiculous number of things that literally don't exist in the final game that they have never addressed.

I actually still enjoyed Red Dead Redemption 2 and playing Cyberpunk I realize my assessment of Red Dead is completely unappreciative of what they've been able to craft because at the very least my fucking complaints are miniscule compared to what is happening with cyberpunk and in hindsight Red Dead Redemption 2 doesn't have as many issues.

I'd rather have my complaints about a walking animation and me disagreeing with a characters narrative and successfully able to play a game for 100 hour with no crashes in a world with NPCs that have complete life cycles vs 30 plus crashes, incomplete, cut content if that shit even ever existed at all, scammed lol

That shit is making me want to go back to play Watchdogs 1 as I realize its not so bad when you actually play a game that is absolute shit.
 

Halo is Dead

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This game makes my issues with Red Dead Redemption 2 seem completely trivial.

After beating Red Dead Redemption 2 of course I hated the weird auto fail system in some of the missions and I didn't care for how they wrote Arthur Morgan and I also had an issue with them not letting you rob banks in the open world as well as the weird animation where you're forced to walk, but playing the complete fucking train wreck that is cyberpunk 2077....maybe that is light.

Looking back at Red Dead Redemption 2 it's easy to realize I wish that was simply the fucking problem I had with cyberpunk lol

My game crashed over 30 times and the games world was completely fucking a lifeless with NPCs behaving like they had lobotomies. The game fundamentally has so many problems I'm willing to forgive a few fucking bugs but my God even if they're able to correct these things, the real actual problem is the fundamental design of the game and how they falsely marketed something that literally didn't exist and then continued to leave that content on their YouTube page while at the same time issuing a hollow apology that never addresses the ridiculous number of things that literally don't exist in the final game that they have never addressed.

I actually still enjoyed Red Dead Redemption 2 and playing Cyberpunk I realize my assessment of Red Dead is completely unappreciative of what they've been able to craft because at the very least my fucking complaints are miniscule compared to what is happening with cyberpunk and in hindsight Red Dead Redemption 2 doesn't have as many issues.

I'd rather have my complaints about a walking animation and me disagreeing with a characters narrative and successfully able to play a game for 100 hour with no crashes in a world with NPCs that have complete life cycles vs 30 plus crashes, incomplete, cut content if that shit even ever existed at all, scammed lol

That shit is making me want to go back to play Watchdogs 1 as I realize its not so bad when you actually play a game that is absolute shit.
It's just a different game that I have accepted many people will dislike. It is very slow and "take it all in" kind of game. RDR2 has it's fair share of faults and I totally forgot about not robbing other banks lol. That did disappoint me at the time and all of the criticism about super linear missions is valid and I simply agree with them.

However, it is easily the most detailed game world I have ever experienced. I think people who complain a lot about R* games really didn't get very creative in messing about with NPC's and physics in their games. Jut by mostly doing the main story I can see why gamers feel disappointed. One of the other aspects I love was Author's diary. It is continually updated the more you explore the world and advance through the story giving a better insight to his character. Also coming back in town and having NPC's recognize you after you caused a shit storm was really impressive to me. There really is so much you can do, explore, and mess around within the game and I really respect R* committing to that vision.
 
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EDMIX

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It's just a different game that I have accepted many people will dislike. It is very slow and "take it all in" kind of game. RDR2 has it's fair share of faults and I totally forgot about not robbing other banks lol. That did disappoint me at the time and all of the criticism about super linear missions is valid and I simply agree with them.

However, it is easily to most detailed game world I have ever experienced. I think people who complain a lot about R* games really didn't get very creative in messing about with NPC's and physics in their games. Jut by mostly doing the main story I can see why gamers feel disappointed. One of the other aspects I love was Author's diary. It is continually updated the more you explore the world and advance through the story giving a better insight to his character. Also coming back in town and having NPC's recognize you after you caused a shit storm was really impressive to me. There really is so much you can do, explore, and mess around with in the game and I really respect R* committing to that vision.

Same. I need that rumor about Red Dead Redemption 1 remake running in Red Dead 2's engine to be real like yesterday lol

The NPC's talking you and you being able to talk back freely either negatively or positively, some times resulting in shoot outs or a friendly wave really pushed the narrative forward that you are Arthur Morgan based on how you want to see the world and behave in it. I only wish they did more with the outlaw thing, but the ability to speak randomly and have the NPC react based on what you say is one of the most overlooked things about Red Dead 2. I got so sucked into it, I many times would say hi, they wouldn't say hi back and I'd start to get mad and want to rob them and realize I have a bloody deer on my horse and want to get to another town before dark and not go to jail. The ability for that to happen, created that thinking and only furthered the concept they are telling you about the story.

That is a idea worthy of the title "next generation of open world design".

CP2077 is getting a lot of this hate because they spent years saying shit they simply couldn't back up.

Cyberpunk 2077's final trailer is them making some claims about shit they couldn't do, their video after is an apology because of massive backlash.

Red Dead 2's final trailer...


My god, they literally talk about the story, yet have a better world, CP2077 on the other hand has their final trailer a bunch of smoke and mirrors and misleading statements.

Rockstar's second video after launch was of its awards.
CDPR's second video after launch was an apology as they face numerous lawsuits.

I'll be hype again for a futuristic open world title when Bethesda, Rockstar or Ubisoft make it.
 

Admerer

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Sep 3, 2020
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I'm enjoying Cyberpunk on PC... played for a few hours, not 1 crash so far.
Has a few bugs, but nothing game-braking.

I also started playing the story mode after messing around with the open world (and being super disappointed, even requested a Steam refund).

I have to say this game is pretty good.

You have to view the game as story driven single player game with the "open world" nothing more than window dressing to give the illusion of a live city.
As long as you don't stare too long at the little details and concentrate on the story it's pretty good so far.

Seems like CDPR did things backwards, trying to build an open world around a story driven first person action adventure game.
They definitely bit more than they could chew.
 
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sobaka770

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I swear if CDPR had a good sense to release this in like March all patched up we wouldn't be talking about how car physics are not the same as in GTA or people don't run away from honking in 40 minute over-indulgent videos.
There are like 2 immersion breaking things: cop spawning and traffic/pedestrian AI. Everything else is just easy points for videos like this while the game itself is a perfectly good, even great RPG when it just runs well.
 
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MrJTeera

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The title is literally all we need. Not sure what the reason is to make a 41 minute video to tell us "Cyberpunk was overpromised and underdelivered." I guess clicks and ad revenue?
Yeah, why not just turn YouTube into literally just video titles and no videos...

It’s 41 minutes of well edited, properly structured video essay with no narrations, all evidence. What’s not to love?

I’d gladly contribute to this channel’s ad revenue, if it had any, cuz I haven’t seen any ads when I clicked on it.
 
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aries_71

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I swear if CDPR had a good sense to release this in like March all patched up we wouldn't be talking about how car physics are not the same as in GTA or people don't run away from honking in 40 minute over-indulgent videos.
There are like 2 immersion breaking things: cop spawning and traffic/pedestrian AI. Everything else is just easy points for videos like this while the game itself is a perfectly good, even great RPG when it just runs well.
There's much more immersion killing problems than those. I've seen NPC spawning on top of each other, cars spawning and exploding, cars driving through buildings. Even myself spawned inside another NPC while driving. My field of vision was impaired by the NPC eye globes and teeth for God sake! People and cars falling from the sky, objects floating in the air, weapons not reloading, objects not being picked up... the list is never ending.
 
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TTOOLL

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Epically brutal. Truth hurts I guess.
Also, for people saying it wouldn’t be this way if it was released this year...I’m not sure about that. The very foundations of the game are flawed. It is technically trash.
 

Halo is Dead

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Yup the game has bugs. Not nearly Skyrim level of bugginess, but ymmv.

With that said, I love that game. Played on PC and loved every minute of it.

Pains me to see the mob going hard at it, targeting low-hanging fruits, mostly side issues that don't really affect the main gameplay loop.
The hate boner goes a little too far imo.
This game has 5X the amount of bugs more than even vanilla launch Skyrim. How this game released in this state blows my mind. This is Fallout 76 level bad. There are good things that I really enjoy in the game but so much is overshadowed by the game falling apart.
 

Woggleman

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I guess I am glad to see people can finally appreciate RDR2. If this game never came out they would probably still be calling it boring and putting realism before fun.
 
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Spaceman292

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In fact I'd like to see some kind of psychological study on it. Their emotional involvement with a company, its marketing strategy and subpar product is bizarre. Never seen such involvement this side of the football/sports world.
Is it so difficult to believe that some people enjoyed a video game? Seems more likely than whateverhefucj crazy psychological brainwashing tHiNg you're insinuating.
 

v1oz

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What's with all the journalists saying the game is great when they played preview code at events. Apparently they played at least two hours. There's no way in hell a preview build can actually be better than the final release version. Were they playing an entirely different game to what was shipped?
 
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Ozrimandias

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I must say that I am very disappointed with CD Projekt, but also confused. Although other reviews indicate the terrible bugs, a game that is broken in multiple aspects, it is the first time that I find in a review that the game is no longer an RPG but an action title, in other reviews they even saved that the side quest was great, that the decisions one made had repercussions and multiple endings, was all of the above a lie? Do you honestly think that the game can be saved for the rest of the year? This shitty practice should be completely eradicated from the industry, I think of you Ubisoft. Say what you want but there is no developer like Rockstar, I think that consumers are responsible for rushing game outputs and not being patient to "come when it's has to come"
 

Philfrag

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Is it so difficult to believe that some people enjoyed a video game? Seems more likely than whateverhefucj crazy psychological brainwashing tHiNg you're insinuating.
These guys come out the wood work every time someone likes a game that’s been panned. They’re projecting and actually it’s them that have got too into the media clusterfuck that results after said game releases badly. I was a day 1 no mans sky fan and even though i was disappointed with it I still played the shit out of it. In every discussion I took part in online I was apparently wrong for liking it, I was wrong for seeing interesting things in it that others didn’t. All of my play time was apparently dedicated to making these people feel insecure about their own thoughts. What tiresome juvenile bullshit. I’m an adult with a job, i havnt got time to play a game I don’t like just so I can cope.

I didn’t even like cyberpunk, and agree with the shit CD Projeckt red are getting. That said there are cool things about it and there’s nothing wrong with Liking it based on its merits.
 
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harmny

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What's with all the journalists saying the game is great when they played preview code at events. Apparently they played at least two hours. There's no way in hell a preview build can actually be better than the final release version. Were they playing an entirely different game to what was shipped?
No. They played on a high end PC
 

nowhat

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2. This is completely false story which was popular at release as people didn't play game and trolls started shitting on game. C77 has day and night cycle where amount of people on street depends on place and time of day. Go to corpo plaza at midday and you won't be able to even drive since it will be like rush hours. There are places in game that spawns way more people than that 48 minute demo
I remember the first time I played a game where the NPCs, not the game, had a day and night cycle. So for example a shopkeeper would lock his shop for the night, so if you wanted to steal something (doing so in plain sight will get the guards chasing after you, although they don't spawn out of thin air) you'd have to wait for the night and pick the lock (unseen). Or you could murder the shopkeeper in his sleep and not get caught (if no one sees).

It was Ultima V. In 1988.
 

aries_71

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No. They played on a high end PC
You know that's not an answer. That's the last line of defense that CDPR is using but you should know better.

You know that many of the most glaring issues have nothing to do with performance. And what is worse, plenty of those issues will never be dealt with because they are not technically bugs (but bad design decisions, lackluster RPG mechanics, shallow AI, cut content, etc).
 
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Cob32

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What's with all the journalists saying the game is great when they played preview code at events. Apparently they played at least two hours. There's no way in hell a preview build can actually be better than the final release version. Were they playing an entirely different game to what was shipped?

Probably played on the highest end pc and the section they were playing would have had some major debugging and polish.
 

Murr

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You know that's not an answer. That's the last line of defense that CDPR is using but you should know better.

You know that many of the most glaring issues have nothing to do with performance. And what is worse, plenty of those issues will never be dealt with because they are not technically bugs (but bad design decisions, lackluster RPG mechanics, shallow AI, cut content, etc).
Cry all you want. I have mroe than 100 hours in the game and enjoyed every second. Are there bugs and things they can improve? Certainly. But CP2077 is the first Open-World game in a long while i actually enjoyed.
I get the impression that all this whining has more to do with some ideological disgusting shit. Certainly wouldn't surprise me.

it certainly blows garbage like Assassins Creed out of the water.
 
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harmny

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You know that's not an answer. That's the last line of defense that CDPR is using but you should know better.

You know that many of the most glaring issues have nothing to do with performance. And what is worse, plenty of those issues will never be dealt with because they are not technically bugs (but bad design decisions, lackluster RPG mechanics, shallow AI, cut content, etc).

they were asking about the 4 hour preview in june. that is mainly the prologue and if you are doing missions you won't notice the shallow random npcs AI. how cut content affects the final game or if there are bad design decisions and lackluster rpg mechanics is subjective and you are not going to be able to really judge those things in the first 4 hours.

so they were basically blown away by the atmosphere of the city and the missions and they were playing on pc so that means less bugs but also you expect developers to fix the bugs by the time the game launches. and it's not like reviewers changed their mind a lot when the game launched. after all the shitstorm the game is still sitting at 86 on metacritic so that means that they really liked it.

No. They played a custom, polished demo slice which wasn't representative of the final game.

absolutely wrong. they played the actual game.
 
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aries_71

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Cry all you want. I have mroe than 100 hours in the game and enjoyed every second. Are there bugs and things they can improve? Certainly. But CP2077 is the first Open-World game in a long while i actually enjoyed.
I get the impression that all this whining has more to do with some ideological disgusting shit. Certainly wouldn't surprise me.

it certainly blows garbage like Assassins Creed out of the water.
Let go your CDPR defense force helmet for a while, but if you are suggesting that the critique is somewhat related to what Americans call "woke stuff", I can assure I couldn't give a shit about that drama.
I just don't agree with the notion that the PC version is all fine and dandy. In fact, it's a blatant lie.
 
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