Crytek demos realtime raytracing with Cryengine running on AMD's Vega56

Mar 10, 2013
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With this demo Crytek shows raytracing in realtime without using dedicated hardware such as we see with Frostbite and NVIDIA's RTX line-up in Battlefield 5.

Neon Noir shows how real-time mesh ray-traced reflections and refractions can deliver highly realistic visuals for games. The Neon Noir demo was created with the new advanced version of CRYENGINE’s Total Illumination showcasing real time ray tracing. This feature will be added to CRYENGINE release roadmap in 2019, enabling developers around the world to build more immersive scenes, more easily, with a production-ready version of the feature.
Neon Noir was developed on a bespoke version of CRYENGINE 5.5., and the experimental ray tracing feature based on CRYENGINE’s Total Illumination used to create the demo is both API and hardware agnostic, enabling ray tracing to run on most mainstream, contemporary AMD and NVIDIA GPUs. However, the future integration of this new CRYENGINE technology will be optimized to benefit from performance enhancements delivered by the latest generation of graphics cards and supported APIs like Vulkan and DX12.
This eliminates the known limitation of pre-baked cube maps and local screen space reflections when creating smooth surfaces like mirrors, and allows developers to create more realistic, consistent scenes. To showcase the benefits of real time ray tracing, screen space reflections were not used in this demo.
Source: https://www.crytek.com/news/crytek-...-time-ray-tracing-demonstration-for-cryengine
 
Sep 25, 2015
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#2
Paging @dark10x

This looks very interesting. The framerate isn't super high, but the effect itself is quite convincing. You can see some temporal artifacting at 1:15 when the mirrored surfaces are rotating, but by and large it 'fools the eye' well. Impressive.

I hope they release this to this public soon so we can get some benchmarks across different hardware. Even better would be a side-by-side comparison with the same scene running an equivalent RTX implementation, but I don't know if we'll see that.
 
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Leonidas

"Ask me about computers"
Mar 6, 2007
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Interesting times, can't wait to see how this compares to RTX hardware accelerated ray-tracing.

Seems safe to say that next-gen consoles will do ray-tracing, wonder if everyone will jump on the bandwagon now :lollipop_smiling_face_eyes:
 
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Interesting times, can't wait to see how this compares to RTX hardware accelerated ray-tracing.

Seems safe to say that next-gen consoles will do ray-tracing, wonder if everyone will jump on the bandwagon now :lollipop_smiling_face_eyes:
Once consoles adopt, developers see dollar signs and follow suit. At this point it's not a matter of if, but when...
 
Sep 25, 2015
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#5
Seems safe to say that next-gen consoles will do ray-tracing, wonder if everyone will jump on the bandwagon now :lollipop_smiling_face_eyes:
I mean that still depends on how much GPU horsepower the next-gens have. Since it's hardware / vendor agnostic, the raytracing functionality is going to effectively 'run in software' and eat into the base rendering budget.

Are we expecting Vega 56 levels of performance from MS and Sony's next offerings? I'm not up-to-date on that stuff.
 
Dec 4, 2014
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Interesting times, can't wait to see how this compares to RTX hardware accelerated ray-tracing.

Seems safe to say that next-gen consoles will do ray-tracing, wonder if everyone will jump on the bandwagon now :lollipop_smiling_face_eyes:
I think we will some limited raytracing now. Although I still the majority of power will be to rasterizers(sp?).
 
Apr 19, 2018
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This thing apperently runs on Vega56 which is mid-upper range of gpu and from looks it has waaaay more reflections that something like battlefield and doesn't seem to murder performance that much.

RTX should help naturally but i don't think anyone will pay now extra 300$ just to have RTX when they can achieve normal performance with normal hardware.

Also this means that Next gen console will have ray tracing in them something i was very sceptical about.

is this relevant for PS5?
Very much so. It proves once for all that hardware is good enough for raytracing to be applied in gaming.
The difference here what makes it viable for new consoles is that what you are looking at is kind of gpu that will be going into those new consoles.

Previously i and frankly many people thought that next gen consoles will not have it because it is simply to expensive but with just 56 achieving such results it means you don't have to have RTX or any kind of build in ray tracing hardware to play games with raytracing.
 
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GoldenEye98

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I mean that still depends on how much GPU horsepower the next-gens have. Since it's hardware / vendor agnostic, the raytracing functionality is going to effectively 'run in software' and eat into the base rendering budget.

Are we expecting Vega 56 levels of performance from MS and Sony's next offerings? I'm not up-to-date on that stuff.
Should be at least that. Probably better given it will be based on newer architecture.
 
Apr 19, 2018
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Are we expecting Vega 56 levels of performance from MS and Sony's next offerings? I'm not up-to-date on that stuff.
Yes. Vega 56 is minimum what we can expect from normal next gen console.
I am 100% sure that we will get from both MS and Sony next gen consoles and PRO version of it from get go.
 
Likes: Yakuzakazuya
Mar 10, 2013
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One thing to keep in mind is that Crytek's implementation is supposedly SVOGI (Voxel-Based Global Illumination ) based which is a lot cheaper than ray based raytracing that we see with NVIDIA's RTX. Which would explain how they got this running on an Vega 56 without dedicated hardware.

What this basically boils down to is that with this technique you can't render an entire scene via raytracing, just the lighting and reflections. Whereas NIVIA's ray based approach with RTX would allow for "full" raytracing of a scene but I'm not aware of any available product that utilizes it that way.

Related github commits that point to it being SVOGI based:
!F (DEV-6911) SVOGI: Mesh tracing Part I - Render Resources Preparation
!F (DEV-6912) SVOGI: Mesh tracing Part 2/2 - Enabled ray tracing functionality in shaders (system is usable only for small test levels for now)
!B (CE-19239) Fixed: SVOGI: Ray Tracing feature causing a freeze in the engine. Also quality and performance improvements

Edit: Seems like this post came out wrong. This is not meant as a negative post, I'm just trying to add some context and explain why Crytek is able to achieve this on normal hardware.
 
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Dec 4, 2014
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Yes. Vega 56 is minimum what we can expect from normal next gen console.
I am 100% sure that we will get from both MS and Sony next gen consoles and PRO version of it from get go.
I'm thinking something slightly faster than a vega 64 performance for Sony. Who knows what MS will do.
 
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Love to say that I told you so. RTX is nothing special. Ray Tracing is done with compute, and AMD cards are great at compute. There is zero reason that ray tracing could not be implemented on current AMD hardware. Long version explained here and here
 
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Love to say that I told you so. RTX is nothing special. Ray Tracing is done with compute, and AMD cards are great at compute. There is zero reason that ray tracing could not be implemented on current AMD hardware. Long version explained here and here
AMD cards have for the longest time been heavy on compute. This is somthing NVidia has just started with tensor and the RT cores for raytracing.
 
Aug 3, 2014
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Interesting times, can't wait to see how this compares to RTX hardware accelerated ray-tracing.

Seems safe to say that next-gen consoles will do ray-tracing, wonder if everyone will jump on the bandwagon now :lollipop_smiling_face_eyes:
lmfao no next gen consoles are NOT doing raytracing. get your head out the clouds. we'll be lucky if they can manage 60fps as standard nevermind implement raytracing. jeez you console owners are deluded as hell.
 
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lmfao no next gen consoles are NOT doing raytracing. get your head out the clouds. we'll be lucky if they can manage 60fps as standard nevermind implement raytracing. jeez you console owners are deluded as hell.
I think some limited raytracing is possible. Basically low settings on what see now.

The most should be for rasterization, however.
 
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Sep 25, 2015
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Whereas NIVIA's ray based approach with RTX would allow for "full" raytracing of a scene but I'm not aware of any available product that utilizes it that way.
Q2VKPT uses RTX to do full-scene raytracing for Quake 2, though there's some trickery in there that involves using temporal reconstruction to make it run at a playable framerate:

 
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Apr 7, 2006
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One thing to keep in mind is that Crytek's implementation is supposedly SVOGI (Voxel-Based Global Illumination ) based which is a lot cheaper than ray based raytracing that we see with NVIDIA's RTX. Which would explain how they got this running on an Vega 56 without dedicated hardware.

What this basically boils down to is that with this technique you can't render an entire scene via raytracing, just the lighting and reflections. Whereas NIVIA's ray based approach with RTX would allow for "full" raytracing of a scene but I'm not aware of any available product that utilizes it that way.

Related github commits that point to it being SVOGI based:
!F (DEV-6911) SVOGI: Mesh tracing Part I - Render Resources Preparation
!F (DEV-6912) SVOGI: Mesh tracing Part 2/2 - Enabled ray tracing functionality in shaders (system is usable only for small test levels for now)
!B (CE-19239) Fixed: SVOGI: Ray Tracing feature causing a freeze in the engine. Also quality and performance improvements
That does not invalidate what was shown here because RTX in it's curent form is very much hybrid. At least here the results look much superior to what we saw in BFV with very little noise at that.....I actually miss Crytek output this generation.....I'm thankful that they're still around and have not folded.....We need stalwarts like this in the Space that constantly push visuals and tech.....Looks like the Radeon Rays standard is taking shape......Next gen should be very interesting...
 
Jan 12, 2014
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I'm thinking something slightly faster than a vega 64 performance for Sony. Who knows what MS will do.
Where is this coming from?
I don't recall consoles ever launching with near-flagship cards. The xb1 launched with something based on the HD 7xxx series even though the R9 2xx cards were already out.
similarly the xb1x was upgraded to some custom chip more in line with an rx480, or a slower 580, even though Vega was already available.
Unless these consoles are releasing in 2022, something that's actually faster than a vega64 seems like it would make the console too expensive; xb1x pricing isn't the norm.
 
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Where is this coming from?
I don't recall consoles ever launching with near-flagship cards. The xb1 launched with something based on the HD 7xxx series even though the R9 2xx cards were already out.
similarly the xb1x was upgraded to some custom chip more in line with an rx480, or a slower 580, even though Vega was already available.
Unless these consoles are releasing in 2022, something that's actually faster than a vega64 seems like it would make the console too expensive; xb1x pricing isn't the norm.
Where is it coming from? My ass. Just like the rest of speculators. :)>

Although, I'd think will be around 2060 levels. Which is around vega 64ish levels.
 
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llien

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#32
What this basically boils down to is that with this technique you can't render an entire scene via raytracing, just the lighting and reflections.
Yes, as with NV RTX.

Whereas NIVIA's ray based approach with RTX would allow for "full" raytracing of a scene but I'm not aware of any available product that utilizes it that way.
Approach as in current RTX line???
It can do 1 ray per pixel at best, how would that look like in your opinion? Did you find that Quake demo impressive?
 
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Jan 9, 2018
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This implementation reminds me of when they hyped Crysis 2's 3D mode for having groundbreaking performance.
Turns out it was shifting 2D images around to create the illusion of depth. A diet version of the real thing - but still better than nothing.
 

blu

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May 4, 2007
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Yes, as with NV RTX.


Approach as in current RTX line???
It can do 1 ray per pixel at best, how would that look like in your opinion? Did you find that Quake demo impressive?
That's not true for any of the current-gen resolutions.
 
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lmfao no next gen consoles are NOT doing raytracing. get your head out the clouds. we'll be lucky if they can manage 60fps as standard nevermind implement raytracing. jeez you console owners are deluded as hell.
mate you just seen demo on Vega56 which is basically what minimum spec of next console will be. Day ago i would agree but not after this demo. Crytek tech proved you can do that.

Where is this coming from?
I don't recall consoles ever launching with near-flagship cards. The xb1 launched with something based on the HD 7xxx series even though the R9 2xx cards were already out.
similarly the xb1x was upgraded to some custom chip more in line with an rx480, or a slower 580, even though Vega was already available.
Unless these consoles are releasing in 2022, something that's actually faster than a vega64 seems like it would make the console too expensive; xb1x pricing isn't the norm.
When next gen consoles will launch both Vega56 and 64 performance will be MID gpus not high end.

One thing to keep in mind is that Crytek's implementation is supposedly SVOGI (Voxel-Based Global Illumination ) based which is a lot cheaper than ray based raytracing that we see with NVIDIA's RTX. Which would explain how they got this running on an Vega 56 without dedicated hardware.

What this basically boils down to is that with this technique you can't render an entire scene via raytracing, just the lighting and reflections. Whereas NIVIA's ray based approach with RTX would allow for "full" raytracing of a scene but I'm not aware of any available product that utilizes it that way.

Related github commits that point to it being SVOGI based:
!F (DEV-6911) SVOGI: Mesh tracing Part I - Render Resources Preparation
!F (DEV-6912) SVOGI: Mesh tracing Part 2/2 - Enabled ray tracing functionality in shaders (system is usable only for small test levels for now)
!B (CE-19239) Fixed: SVOGI: Ray Tracing feature causing a freeze in the engine. Also quality and performance improvements
I think you are muddling needlessly water here.
RTX also doesn't run full ray tracing it runs mixed ray tracing.

In the end what you do doesn't matter, effect is what matters. And here you have perfect reflections just like on RTX without noise problems or huge performance hit.

You are right this is just reflections but same could be said about RTX. There is no game right now that uses both GI and reflections and rest AND no one says Crytek doesn't have the answer for that too.

Reflections are the hardest part here, if they have that this means they also have GI because GI will run on same type of tech.
 

GoldenEye98

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Jan 7, 2018
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#37
What this basically boils down to is that with this technique you can't render an entire scene via raytracing, just the lighting and reflections. Whereas NIVIA's ray based approach with RTX would allow for "full" raytracing of a scene but I'm not aware of any available product that utilizes it that way.
Lighting and reflections are the best use cases for ray-tracing though aren't they not?
 

llien

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Feb 1, 2017
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#40
The official figures have been circulating the net for some time now (like this table), but unofficial figures are circulating game studios and software houses.
Gigarays were never formally defined.
Judging from the perf hit one gets by just reflections/shadows at 1080p, "full scene ray tracing is real today" needs a bit more than gigarays figure.
 

blu

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May 4, 2007
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#41
Gigarays were never formally defined.
Judging from the perf hit one gets by just reflections/shadows at 1080p, "full scene ray tracing is real today" needs a bit more than gigarays figure.
Sure. And yet, even when fully-formally defined one day (hopefully), rays/s will be the metric. As it is now, RTX cards can do full-scene raytracing at much more than 1 ray/pixel (hint: that quake demo you saw above does much more than 1 ray/pixel)
 
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llien

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Feb 1, 2017
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#42
that quake demo you saw above does much more than 1 ray/pixel
It looks rather unimpressive to me, exactly how much more is "much more"?

one day (hopefully), rays/s will be the metric
The problem is that processing is slower in complex scenes, as more items would need to be tested.
That is why we don't have a single fully RT game, bar trivial Quake.
 

blu

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May 4, 2007
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#44
It looks rather unimpressive to me, exactly how much more is "much more"?
That's because it does a predominantly-diffuse BRDF, which uses up the ray budget quickly. To get this level of clarity per frame (i.e. inter-frame convergence non-withstanding), you'd need a dozen or more secondary rays per pixel. Had the game used something 'shinier' for a predominant BRDF it'd be able to get more 'bang for the ray buck'.

The problem is that processing is slower in complex scenes, as more items would need to be tested.
Sure. And yet, unless the scene has pathological corner cases, one of the benefits of raytcasting is that it scales really well with scene complexity -- much better than rasterizers. But scene complexity can affect the BVH build times much more heavily than it could affect raycasting times (and rasterizers don't need any accelerator structures, beyond some depth/mask/accumulation frame buffers). Luckily, most real-world scenes have more static and less moving parts (like that crytek demo).

That is why we don't have a single fully RT game, bar trivial Quake.
I'd say the reasons are more complex than that -- nvidia's RTX software stack turned up late, so it was retro-fitted in engines and titles at already advanced stage of development (or nearly ready). Then there is the 'shall we use our ray budget in exuberant reflections of shall we go full-scene, given we already have the luma maps for the game?'. Give it some time. What I can guarantee to you is that RTX can do more than one ray/pixel in a contemporary non-quake-retro-port scenario : )
 
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mate you just seen demo on Vega56 which is basically what minimum spec of next console will be. Day ago i would agree but not after this demo. Crytek tech proved you can do that.
Before getting all your hopes up you should keep in mind that this is a tech demo... this is ray tracing on a very small scale and that has been possible for a while now.

It's like saying "we will have proper cloth and water physics next gen" because NVidia has been showing off water simulations for ages now (even before current gen launched), even running on mid-range cards at the time... turns out that we still don't have water simulations like this one:
 
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Cool, but demos and games are different things, there is a reason why we never got to see broad adoption of UE4 elemental tech in actual games. At least this approach doesn´t require you to invest in specialized hardware.