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Cyberpunk 2077 Official Ray Tracing PC Requirements

VFXVeteran

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Generational leap


This is where I preach that tech drives visuals forward.. not art. You can only fake the lighting equation but so much before you run completely out of ideas. A lot of people have been used to the RTX off that they think that's what the real world looks like. When you just stare at the RTX ON image, you start to see all the shadows and how the lighting plays a crucial role in making generational leap in visuals. Without this lighting overhaul, we are staring at the same trick lighting used in games like Spiderman MM and Demon Souls. This generation can NOT progress towards a generational leap in 2-3yrs unless we harness the RT lighting and for that, you'll need strong RT performance.
 
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llien

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This is where I preach that tech drives visuals forward.. not art. You can only fake the lighting equation but so much before you run completely out of ideas. A lot of people have been used to the RTX off that they think that's what the real world looks like. When you just stare at the RTX ON image, you start to see all the shadows and how the lighting plays a crucial role in making generational leap in visuals. Without this lighting overhaul, we are staring at the same trick lighting used in games like Spiderman MM and Demon Souls. This generation can NOT progress towards a generational leap in 2-3yrs unless we harness the RT lighting and for that, you'll need strong RT performance.

This is one of the two impressive differences in the video I've posted on the previous page.
However, note where the sun is on those two pics.

It's midday on the right, evening on the left.

Stuff on the left is not something "never seen" in before RT become a thing either.
Here is Uncharted on a puny 7870:



 
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That doesn't mean much without the target framerate. It's likely the text is not directly refering to the spec sheet. I think the spec sheet is for 30 FPS, but DLSS gets you to 60, that makes the most sense.
I totally agree with this and wonder if devs don't put out fps as they know most cards will cry and, thus, bad PR = lower sales.
 

COVID-45

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I'm building a new rig in January hopefully. Still not sure if I should go 6800 XT or with a 3080...

Guess the RT performance in Cyberpunk will be a determining factor. If the frame rates are ass at 1440P ultra on the 3080 I'll just go AMD and visit RT again at my next upgrade...

Hopefully AMD starts talking about their RT solution more and we get some game updates.
 
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GaviotaGrande

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This is one of the two impressive differences in the video I've posted on the previous page.
However, note where the sun is on those two pics.

It's midday on the right, evening on the left.

Stuff on the left is not something "never seen" in before RT become a thing either.
Here is Uncharted on a puny 7870:



Baked lighting vs dynamic day and night cycle.
 

Armorian

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I'm building a new rig in January hopefully. Still not sure if I should go 6800 XT or with a 3080...

Guess the RT performance in Cyberpunk will be a determining factor. If the frame rates are ass at 1440P ultra on the 3080 I'll just go AMD and visit RT again at my next upgrade...

Hopefully AMD starts talking about their RT solution more and we get some game updates.

3080 is better in everything pretty much aside few AMD sponsored games. But when RT comes to the picture there are massive wins for Nv.

I really see no reason to go AMD, maybe if their cards are in the stock when 3080 isn't but this isn't the case right now.
 

Ascend

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Strange they didn't include any of the new AMD cards within the RT requirements. Seems like the software isn't ready yet.
nVidia is known for partnering with developers to prioritize their cards, and on some occasions, single out the competition.
Was this posted? No RT on AMD at launch

At least it will be introduced. Better late than never. In the past, AMD wouldn't have gotten it at all.
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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3080 is better in everything pretty much aside few AMD sponsored games. But when RT comes to the picture there are massive wins for Nv.

I really see no reason to go AMD, maybe if their cards are in the stock when 3080 isn't but this isn't the case right now.
Yeah I'd definitely agree with you there. Not only with RT, but DLSS will give huge performance boosts, so you can keep RT enabled while getting more frames.
 

VFXVeteran

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This is one of the two impressive differences in the video I've posted on the previous page.
However, note where the sun is on those two pics.

It's midday on the right, evening on the left.

Shadows will still cast no matter where the sun is and the one with missing shadows significantly degrades from the scene lighting. It destroys the realism.

AO is also independent of Sun direction. It's the accumulation of bounced light all around the scene. There should naturally be MORE occlusion shadows all over the place. Objects near other objects need to cast shadows on each other. Period. Having RT AO will capture even the small objects like cans on the ground which the screenspace techniques can NOT capture.

Here is what you guys can't seem to identify flaws and rendering errors and that's because you aren't used to seeing what's actually correct.



There is WAY too much light in areas that should be occluded and not enough light in areas that are in complete shadow. The bushes on the ground have no self-shadowing like in Cyberpunk so they look flat -- just like RT OFF sceenshot in Cyberpunk (see how tech is at a standstill from UC3 to Cyberpunk RT OFF??). They painted in the root of the bush black to the tip of the bush but that's not convincing at all -- there's that artistic talent at it's limits there. You can't fix it. It's completely absent the technology to light that bush with a real light source taking into account shadowing. The light illumination on the stone pillar on the ground is too high. Again, no shadowing to tone down that brightness. In the upper floors where you can see inside, it's completely dark but light doesn't work that way. You should see more of the inside since the building is broken and light spills in a little bit. The underpass has too much light and the walls should be providing shadows on each other.



There is NOT enough light in this cave where RT GI will solve this. The light from the outside doesn't bounce at all inside this cave accurately and so it destroys the illumination from behind him as well as on all the walls that face away from the light. This is because it's using a simple light equation that says if my object isn't facing the light, then don't illuminate me at all. There is NO tech present where light would bounce around on walls that it does hit and come back to the objects that aren't receiving direct light and the back of Nate, the ground areas, and the dark patches of the wall would be illuminated.
 
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Armorian

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Yeah I'd definitely agree with you there. Not only with RT, but DLSS will give huge performance boosts, so you can keep RT enabled while getting more frames.

And you can enable DLSS without RT for maximum performance boost. OPTIONS

Plus all the legacy stuff like HBAO and SGSSAA flags in older games, I really can't go AMD anymore, I had 6850, 7970 and 290 and missed all this...
 
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Rikkori

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Overall, quite in line with my expectations to be honest.
You cannot expect game developers to invest major effort into something only a tiny share of the customers would see.
Odds could have been different, had it also been enabled on consoles.

It's not devs investing, it's Nvidia. ;)
Whenever you see Gameworks or RTX, it's usually done by 2-3 Nvidia engineers they send over to the game devs to work on the features implementation. For a project as complex as CP 2077, probably 4-5. Nvidia will easily have spent a million or two just on their salaries, nevermind what they might be paying CDPR. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Worth it though!
 

xPikYx

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Get ready for "Can it run Cyberpunk 2077?" :messenger_grinning_sweat:(cit.)
 
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llien

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It's not devs investing, it's Nvidia. ;)
Whenever you see Gameworks or RTX, it's usually done by 2-3 Nvidia engineers they send over to the game devs to work on the features implementation. For a project as complex as CP 2077, probably 4-5. Nvidia will easily have spent a million or two just on their salaries, nevermind what they might be paying CDPR. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Worth it though!

2-3 nvidia infiltrators is enough to sneak in some proprietary green shit that slows it down for competitor, and perhaps older green cards.

It is not even remotely adequate to make significant visual impact.
 

llien

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It is amusing how people dive into deficiencies of scenes rendered by 7870.

Please check the previous page for RT ON vs OFF screenshots.

Shadows will still cast no matter where the sun is and the one with missing shadows significantly degrades from the scene lighting. It destroys the realism.
There are no missing shadows on the right. It's just sun is in zenith and colors of the scene as a whole, as well as shadows, reflect that.

Quite funny that the only "generational leap" Amper card owner could find was actually that scene... :messenger_beaming:

As for added realism, please tell me that on the pictures here:

RT off vs on labels are actually incorrect, since it is a far cry from "more realism".
 
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GaviotaGrande

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"DLSS is bad, raytracing sucks, Nvidia causes hemorrhoids"

Who am I?
A lunatic asylum escapee?

On a side note: I bought a limited edition CP2077 Xbox One X console today because I needed a 4k Blu-Ray player and I got a free copy of CP2077 with it. I don't need it and I kindly give it away but it seems like it's assigned to the device. Is there any way we can cheat the system? If yes, is anyone interested?
 
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It is amusing how people dive into deficiencies of scenes rendered by 7870.

Please check the previous page for RT ON vs OFF screenshots.


There are no missing shadows on the right. It's just sun is in zenith and colors of the scene as a whole, as well as shadows, reflect that.

Dude, I'm not talking to you about this anymore. You are really barking up the wrong tree. You put up two pictures to try to show that those shots still hold up today. They do not. And I know very well about transparent foliage and how it doesn't self shadow especially with older generation hardware because AO is too expensive. Lastly, the RT OFF has NO AO on the foliage or using a SS technique and it's quite obvious. Stop trying to "show me up" on stuff I work with every single day. It's appauling.
 
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OSC

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Shadows will still cast no matter where the sun is and the one with missing shadows significantly degrades from the scene lighting. It destroys the realism.

AO is also independent of Sun direction. It's the accumulation of bounced light all around the scene. There should naturally be MORE occlusion shadows all over the place. Objects near other objects need to cast shadows on each other. Period. Having RT AO will capture even the small objects like cans on the ground which the screenspace techniques can NOT capture.

Here is what you guys can't seem to identify flaws and rendering errors and that's because you aren't used to seeing what's actually correct.



There is WAY too much light in areas that should be occluded and not enough light in areas that are in complete shadow. The bushes on the ground have no self-shadowing like in Cyberpunk so they look flat -- just like RT OFF sceenshot in Cyberpunk (see how tech is at a standstill from UC3 to Cyberpunk RT OFF??). They painted in the root of the bush black to the tip of the bush but that's not convincing at all -- there's that artistic talent at it's limits there. You can't fix it. It's completely absent the technology to light that bush with a real light source taking into account shadowing. The light illumination on the stone pillar on the ground is too high. Again, no shadowing to tone down that brightness. In the upper floors where you can see inside, it's completely dark but light doesn't work that way. You should see more of the inside since the building is broken and light spills in a little bit. The underpass has too much light and the walls should be providing shadows on each other.



There is NOT enough light in this cave where RT GI will solve this. The light from the outside doesn't bounce at all inside this cave accurately and so it destroys the illumination from behind him as well as on all the walls that face away from the light. This is because it's using a simple light equation that says if my object isn't facing the light, then don't illuminate me at all. There is NO tech present where light would bounce around on walls that it does hit and come back to the objects that aren't receiving direct light and the back of Nate, the ground areas, and the dark patches of the wall would be illuminated.
You know developers computing power has increased over time. Some developers bake scene lighting with hollywood industrial class raytracing offline. Expect more games to do the same. And outside reflections it is likely less expensive easily implementable voxel based global illumination is pretty close in results.
 

VFXVeteran

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You know developers computing power has increased over time. Some developers bake scene lighting with hollywood industrial class raytracing offline. Expect more games to do the same. And outside reflections it is likely less expensive easily implementable voxel based global illumination is pretty close in results.

1) Pre-baked requires large memory and dynamic regeneration - FACT
2) VBGI is too computensive for these consoles.
 
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wordslaughter

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It will be interesting to see the like for like completely fair RT on and off comparisons that will be made after launch.
 

OSC

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1) Pre-baked requires large memory and dynamic regeneration - FACT
2) VBGI is too computensive for these consoles.
You seem to forget Kingdom Come had VBGI and a gaf member commented he could easily run it think on a rx580 or was it a 5700 with SVOGI activated.
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According to him, enabling SVOGI in Kingdom Come Deliverance costs as little as 3FPS (or 6% performance hit). -wccftech

Also the Unreal 5 demo had VBGI and it ran fine on ps5 some say near 60fps and will be locked at 60fps when they're done with their optimizations.

Prebaked might require memory, but it ran on ps4 with fast loading on GT Sport. Ps5 has 14~GB of memory, and can stream additional memory at 17~GB/s
 
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Patrick S.

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A lunatic asylum escapee?

On a side note: I bought a limited edition CP2077 Xbox One X console today because I needed a 4k Blu-Ray player and I got a free copy of CP2077 with it. I don't need it and I kindly give it away but it seems like it's assigned to the device. Is there any way we can cheat the system? If yes, is anyone interested?

Giiiiiiveeeee
 

VFXVeteran

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You seem to forget Kingdom Come had VBGI and a gaf member commented he could easily run it think on a rx580 or a 5700 with SVOGI activated.
edited

There is pre-baked GI all over the place. AC:Valhalla has it. WD:Legion has it. RDR 2 has it. FS2020 has it. Cyberpunk even has it.

I'm talking about RT GI.

Also the Unreal 5 demo had VBGI and it ran fine on ps5 some say near 60fps and will be locked at 60fps when they're done with their optimizations.

Not RT. Btw, I worked 10hrs in UE4 today for work. Guess what? It already has RT code in it ready to go. Lumen in UE5 is just another branch of lighting that you *could* take. There will still be the RT option WITH Nanite! Which is the best way to go going forward.

Prebaked might require memory, but it ran on ps4 with fast loading on GT Sport. Ps5 has 14~GB of memory, and can stream additional memory at 17~GB/s

AC:Unity had one of the best prebaked light probe GI for it's time (still looks exceptional) and they were an enormous bandwidth hog. We have way more things to render in games now than back then.

Relying on pre-baked lighting for yet another 7yrs is just stupid. RT is the way of the future.
 
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OSC

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There is pre-baked GI all over the place. AC:Valhalla has it. WD:Legion has it. RDR 2 has it. FS2020 has it. Cyberpunk even has it.

I'm talking about RT GI.



Not RT. Btw, I worked 10hrs in UE4 today for work. Guess what? It already has RT code in it ready to go. Lumin in UE5 is just another branch of lighting that you *could* take. There will still be the RT option WITH Nanite! Which is the best way to go going forward.
Sometimes you say VBGI is a form of ray tracing, others you say it isnt. Regardless outside reflections I doubt in many cases there's much difference between VBGI and ray tracing.
AC:Unity had one of the best prebaked light probe GI for it's time (still looks exceptional) and they were an enormous bandwidth hog. We have way more things to render in games now than back then.

Relying on pre-baked lighting for yet another 7yrs is just stupid. RT is the way of the future.


The RT off pic looks better though, like something out of a movie, RT on looks more gamey.
CRYENGINE 3 [SVOGI] Baron Haussmann Interior Rendering Demo - GTX 780Ti


And remember the gpus in the consoles run circles around the 780ti. Just like the ps5 pro, if released 3+years later, will run circles around the 3090.

edit: The 980ti, if I'm not mistaken, runs demo at 1440p 60fps. Easy 4k 30fps, with performance to spare on next gen consoles.
 
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Gamer79

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I'll be targeting 4K @ 60 frames per second at maximum settings with ray tracing enabled. So, I guess I'll be using DLSS Performance Mode (1080p to 4K); hopefully the quality is as good as that of Control.


My PC's specifications:

1. Ryzen 9 3950X
2. Asus X570 ROG Crosshair VIII Hero (WI-FI)
3. G. Skill Trident Z RGB 64GBs (2 x 32GBs) DDR4 RAM @ 3600 MHz
4. EVGA RTX 3090 FTW3 Ultra Gaming
5. Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SATA SSD (Windows OS and non-gaming programs)
6. Sabrent "Rocket" PCIe Gen 4.0 NVMe 2TB SSD (games)
7. Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB HDD
8. Western Digital Blue 4TB & 6TB HDDs
9. Corsair TX850M 850 Watt 80+ Gold PSU
10. Lian Li O11 Dynamic XL ROG

Well I have a Quan-Flux Capaciter GPU mixed with a Nano machine powered motherboard connected to an Advanced A.I algorithm Quantum cpu.
 
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VFXVeteran

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Sometimes you say VBGI is a form of ray tracing, others you say it isnt. Regardless outside reflections I doubt in many cases there's much difference between VBGI and ray tracing.



The RT off pic looks better though, like something out of a movie, RT on looks more gamey.

Please please please stop with the shit about RT OFF looks better than RT ON. That's like saying turning off shadows looks better than turning on shadows. If you think it looks better, then play all of your games without RT - including your PS5 games that offer RT like Spiderman MM. Just turn it off. But please don't come in here trying to say RT looks worse than pre-baked shit. I'm just going to ignore it.

CRYENGINE 3 [SVOGI] Baron Haussmann Interior Rendering Demo - GTX 780Ti


That technique is only on the PC right now. There isn't a game announced on the PS5 that is using the CryEngine SVOGI.

And remember the gpus in the consoles run circles around the 780ti. Just like the ps5 pro, if released 3+years later, will run circles around the 3090.

So a PS5 Pro is going to suddenly leapfrog it's lame RT chipset from the regular PS5 and become more powerful than the 6900XT/3090? :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: Only the Sony warriors are this delusional. I bet it's going to only be a $50 difference too right? And include a 2T SSD at no cost too? :messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

OSC

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But please don't come in here trying to say RT looks worse than pre-baked shit. I'm just going to ignore it.
It depends, if a scene has Hollywood level GI baked in, not saying cyberpunk does, obviously Hollywood level ray tracing > current RTX.

BTW let me guess, cyberpunk doesn't have full path tracing, it only likely has reflections and shadows. A prebaked lighting can have fully path traced lighting.

That technique is only on the PC right now. There isn't a game announced on the PS5 that is using the CryEngine SVOGI.
Point is the ps5 is more than capable compared to the gpus running svogi at 1440p 60fps.

And lumin will come to future unreal titles bringing VBGI to future titles.
So a PS5 Pro is going to suddenly leapfrog it's lame RT chipset from the regular PS5 and become more powerful than the 6900XT/3090? :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: Only the Sony warriors are this delusional. I bet it's going to only be a $50 difference too right? And include a 2T SSD at no cost too?
If you look at the difference between the ps4 and the xbox one x, it's 3X fold, or 300% difference. Assuming sony went big that puts ps5 pro at 30TFlops of rdna 3 or rdna4. 300% performance boost. It is a reasonable performance jump based on prior consoles.
 
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VFXVeteran

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BTW let me guess, cyberpunk doesn't have full path tracing, it only likely has reflections and shadows. A prebaked lighting can have fully path traced lighting.

How can you bake out an area light's illumination on a surface? Do tell.. How can you use SSAO on a fork on a table? Do tell.

Point is the ps5 is more than capable compared to the gpus running svogi at 1440p 60fps.

It doesn't exist yet.

If you look at the difference between the ps4 and the xbox one x, it's 3X fold, or 300% difference. Assuming sony went big that puts it at 30TFlops of rdna 3 or rdna4. 300% performance boost. It is a reasonable performance jump based on prior consoles.

Life is never linear 100% of the time at all times. You should know that. 3x different on a PS4 to PS4Pro.. isn't the same thing as 3x difference of PS5 on PS5Pro.. or 3X difference on PS8 to PS8 Pro. Life doesn't work like that.. so stop thinking it does.
 

OSC

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How can you bake out an area light's illumination on a surface? Do tell.. How can you use SSAO on a fork on a table? Do tell.
How can you put a computer rendered image of a location, even ingame, besides the real world photo of the location and have it look practically identical?

There are even cases of photogrammetry scenes being used with BEYOND hollywood real world 'infinite' rays real world lighting.
 

VFXVeteran

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How can you put a computer rendered image of a location, even ingame, besides the real world photo of the location and have it look practically identical?

There are even cases of photogrammetry scenes being used with BEYOND hollywood real world 'infinite' rays real world lighting.

We aren't making games that are still shots of photographs. Get that out of your head.

Now answer my question or let it go and accept you don't know.
 
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OSC

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We aren't making games that are still shots of photographs. Get that out of your head.

Now answer my question or let it go and accept you don't know.
We're not talking reflections that change depending on your position. Static shadows and lighting does not change with your movement. Only discrepancy is character's shadows. This is why even the old resident evil remake had superb CG environments.

On the older systems they even had moving camera angles through prerendered scenes and even real life footage that still impress.

Could there be issues with characters dynamic shadows, probably, but in the past it has worked quite well.

It's a bit sad that even now with hundreds of GBs being used we've abandoned prerendered CG backgrounds.

edit:
atomview seems like it will provide something similar at very high resolution and framerates.
 
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llien

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Shadows will still cast no matter where the sun is and the one with missing shadows significantly degrades from the scene lighting. It destroys the realism.
It is better to be healthy and rich, than ill and poor, said Mao.
Thanks for sharing Mao level wizdom, much appreciated.

Now try to find missing shadows on the relevant pic:

You put up two pictures to try to show that those shots still hold up today.
No, it's you straw manning like an asshole.
 
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Starfield

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I'm building a new rig in January hopefully. Still not sure if I should go 6800 XT or with a 3080...

Guess the RT performance in Cyberpunk will be a determining factor. If the frame rates are ass at 1440P ultra on the 3080 I'll just go AMD and visit RT again at my next upgrade...

Hopefully AMD starts talking about their RT solution more and we get some game updates.
For Cyberpunk? or Ray Tracing in general? 3080

PS4:


RTX:



Congratulations, you have proven nothing with this comparison. Except that you believe every surface is made out of glass.
 
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Dampf

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For Cyberpunk? or Ray Tracing in general? 3080




Congratulations, you have proven nothing with this comparison. Except that you believe every surface is made out of glass.
That Screenshot proves you are talking BS. The floor on the left side is far less reflective and thus has more subtle reflections, while the line made out of glass on the ground under Jackys Elbow is a perfect mirror like reflection.
 
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Zathalus

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2) VBGI is too computensive for these consoles.

Crysis Remastered uses VBGI on the Xbox One X at 1080p without dedicated hardware. Ray tracing reflections as well. Considering the more than double increase in performance with the XSX/PS5 plus dedicated RT hardware I don't see why Crysis Remastered cannot run way better on the new consoles.
 

Phrixotrichus

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dude I get you get a hard on for RT lighting. here's the thing tho, and I'm pretty sure we already had a conversation like this...

lighting looks pretty good in most games already.

reflections look like utter shit in most games.

so where would you dedicate the RT hardware towards? the thing that already looks pretty good, or the thing that looks like shit?
the one that might have small irregularities or the one that can completely fail depending on the angle of the camera?

at the moment RT performance is very limited, even on PC cards. so I say concentrate on Reflections first because these need it more than shadows, AO or GI.
Static prebaked lighting can only look good in static worlds.....
That`s something you don´t seem to understand.

Take any scene, add a few lightsources and dynamic objects, start moving them around and watch your prebaked lightning illusion crumble completely.
Real time RT lighting is absolutely transformative if you have the hardware power to use it on a reasonable scale.
 
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Starfield

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That Screenshot proves you are talking BS. The floor on the left side is far less reflective and thus has more subtle reflections, while the line made out of glass on the ground under Jackys Elbow is a perfect mirror like reflection.
you quoted the wrong person but yeah