DA4 will celebrate diversity - narrative lead motives questioned after questionable tweets

Jul 9, 2018
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#1

The narrative director of the next Dragon Age already confirmed that the game will be political and will celebrate "diversity". Check this out (please see that entire twitter thread, it is enlightening):


EA is about to get woke and go broke, AGAIN! I guess BFV wasn't enough of a disaster. Haha
 
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Jul 9, 2018
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#6
Isn't this... actually a good thing?

If that's how the creator want to do it, let him do it. It is a fantasy world after all, they can do whatever they want.
I think the video summarizes very well the problems with this. Dragon Age is a Dark Fantasy setting game, with political and religious topics, but it is ultimately a game where you can do good or bad things.

Using it to "celebrate" diversity would only narrow down the options in the game.
 
Oct 17, 2018
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#7
I think the video summarizes very well the problems with this. Dragon Age is a Dark Fantasy setting game, with political and religious topics, but it is ultimately a game where you can do good or bad things.

Using it to "celebrate" diversity would only narrow down the options in the game.
You talk as if diversity wasn't always Bioware's thing.
 
Mar 16, 2009
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#10
Was the previous Dragon Age "woke"? because I can't think of anything wrong with it unless you think having gay characters is too woke. Seems like people reading an awful lot into the guy saying "everything is political" as if he was implying they're going to propagandize the story like Chinese movie producers do to satisfy the PRC
 
Jul 9, 2018
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#11
Was the previous Dragon Age "woke"? because I can't think of anything wrong with it unless you think having gay characters is too woke. Seems like people reading an awful lot into the guy saying "everything is political" as if he was implying they're going to propagandize the story like Chinese movie producers do to satisfy the PRC
I played Inquisition years ago, but I remember a scene with a trans character where they literally sit you to listen to a lecture about how "trans people are people just like us" and I was rolling my eyes about how unnatural and preachy that conversation was. There were other "woke moments" as well.

It seems the next one will crank it to 11.
 
Jan 31, 2010
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#18
As a Dragon Age: Origins fan, this is a hard pass. I played through 2, Inquisition was terrible. It felt like they were artificially extending the game with its shitty open world. After the disasterous Mass Effect Andromeda, I’m gonna wait until this becomes a clearance game for $9. Bioware games have been getting shittier and shittier after each iteration.
 

strange headache

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Jan 14, 2018
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#19


Oh great, I'm really looking forward to be lectured about intersectional feminism by some Bioware writer who's more interested in pushing a political message rather than crafting an engaging story. He's certainly hitting all the right Buzzphrases:

"Believe all women"



"Listen and believe"



"Punch Nazis"



"Kingdom Come is racist"



If his story-crafting is as predictable and heavy handed as his twitter feed, I'm fully suspecting the next Dragon Age to be another flop for Bioware. The sooner they find out that they are basically promoting militant political ideology, the better.

Also, the stealthy mod edit of the topic title is just plain wrong:

The New Dragon Age will be consistent with previous values

I'm sorry, but I don't remember far-left militant feminist intersectionality to be "consistent with previous values" presented within Dragon Age. I understand that the previous title was a tad sensationalist, but replacing the title with something absurd like this doesn't make it any better.
 
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Kadayi

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#20
I'll be honest having had a perusal of the dude's twitter he hardly strikes me as crazy SJW maniac. versus someone who is addicted to tweeting (44 in a day...get a grip dude) and an unhealthy habit of virtue signalling typical NPC talking points.

Personally, I'd prefer to see them reboot Dragon Age from the off because to my mind it's one of those series that hasn't aged all that well and I think in large part that's a resultant of a certain naivety to the world building and writing, that is a little too broad brush. Dragon Age never felt like a lived-in world, versus one simply pulled together from the inspiration of various fantasy writers, without much regard when it came to generating a comprehensive history or and more importantly grounding the characters fully within it, both in terms of their mindset, attitudes, beliefs and knowledge.

That might seem kind of harsh, but I'll try and illustrate what I mean with an example of the how easy it is to undermine a setting with poor writing. I'm going to use a clip from GOT to illustrate my point. Skip to around the 2-minute mark and listen to the dialogue: -


When you live in a world without clocks and watches the concept of people talking about minutes as a measure of time is jarringly discordant. '5 minutes' is a concept that we as modern 21st century humans surrounded by endless time pieces get because we're used to trading in that lexicon, but in a series set within a medieval fantasy world it sits less easily.

Unfortunately, Dragon Age as a series falls into this habit a lot. The whole Varric as a romance writer storyline in DA: was a particularly groanworthy example, not from the perspective that Varric couldn't be a writer (he's the unreliable narrator to DA2 for example), but more the notion of mass distribution within the whole seemed to sit poorly within the world scape. To be fair with the Witcher series, there have been times where the dialogue seems to sit ill at odds with the setting in terms of the modernity of the language, although that may well be reflective of the novels.

The concern with what Epler says seems to me that he considers Dragon Age as a platform to celebrate modern values, and I question whether that's either necessary or serves a positive purpose from a storytelling perspective without risk of undermining the whole intent of a fantasy setting. If at the end of the day the end result is merely modern mores in fantasy dress up, why bother? Versus instead make an RPG set in modern times.

Perhaps take a leaf from the commode scene in Reservoir Dogs and realise that in order to really sell a story, you need to truly put yourself into it wholesale: -


Alternatively, I kind of feel like Epler is likely big on reading fantasy, but not necessarily big on reading the thing that inspires a lot of fantasy, namely history. For all the shit I give him for being a procrastinator extraordinaire at least GRRM knows his European history and the shitty nature of life back in earlier times.
 
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Aug 7, 2018
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#22
Isn't this... actually a good thing?

If that's how the creator want to do it, let him do it. It is a fantasy world after all, they can do whatever they want.
While I won't doubt the leftist folk will love the game regardless the core gameplay quality. Will it can capture the 'neutral' mainstream folk like me and others who care only for the gameplay? Cause if not prepare for 'Papa EA' meme again.
 
Sep 11, 2005
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#24
When you live in a world without clocks and watches the concept of people talking about minutes as a measure of time is jarringly discordant. '5 minutes' is a concept that we as modern 21st century humans surrounded by endless time pieces get because we're used to trading in that lexicon, but in a series set within a medieval fantasy world it sits less easily.
The Sumerians were using minutes and seconds to tell time well over 5000 years ago.

The whole reason there is 60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour and 24 hours in a day is because that was the system they used.

Ancient people weren't as dumb as you think they were.
 

strange headache

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Jan 14, 2018
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#26
No matter how good the gameplay is, the moment some kind of inclusiveness is shown in advance the game is fucked. This thread is proof.
Stop strawmanning, there's nothing wrong with inclusiveness. I don't care about whatever flavor of the month minority developers decide to inject into their games. They're all welcome as long as they are decently written and not used as a bludgeoning tool in order to bring across your heavy-handed militant agenda.

I usually don't give a rat's rear about what you write on twitter, but developers need to learn that the games they work on are not their personal twitter feed.
 
Jul 7, 2018
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#27
No matter how good the gameplay is, the moment some kind of inclusiveness is shown in advance the game is fucked. This thread is proof.
The onus is not on the players to think a game is good when the developer team attacks their core and traditional values, the onus is on the developer team to showcase that the game is good, despite having said destruction of the traditional values as its primary objective.

And for the last decade or more, BioWare has fallen short on this task of hers, with ME: Andromeda being the peak of said failure (so far).
 
Jun 13, 2004
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#29
I was originally going to say you guys are being to quick to judge based on that original tweet. But after some one posted all those other tweets it is giving me pause.

It’s probably a long way out though and honestly Soderland probably appointed the guy lead so it’s not surprising he sees his job as a platform to spread his beliefs. It will take awhile for this to wash out of the company but if Sodurlund was canned (it’s unclear) that probably sent shockwaves through the company.

He needs to be very careful though BioWare is not in a good spot, the last well received game they delivered was Mass Effect 2 in 2010. This is a big studio that hasn’t had a big hit in almost 10 years, very expensive for EA. He does not want to alienate any audience BioWare can’t afford it.
 
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Kadayi

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#30
The Sumerians were using minutes and seconds to tell time well over 5000 years ago.

The whole reason there is 60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour and 24 hours in a day is because that was the system they used.

Ancient people weren't as dumb as you think they were.


I'm referring to the concept of measurement as common everyday parlance. The Sumerians may have conceived the 24 hours clock and divisions thereof, but in an age when sundials are your primary means of gauging the time of day, the notion that everyone is down with the clowns when it comes to minute to minute accuracy in both activity and thinking is rather far-fetched, to say the least. Given within the fictive framework of Game of Thrones, even noblemen aren't necessarily that educated and it's only really the maesters that trade in the sciences the dialogue feels misplaced especially coming from the Hound of all characters.
 
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Bill O'Rights

Seldom posts. Always delivers.
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#31
I'm sorry, but I don't remember far-left militant feminist intersectionality to be "consistent with previous values" presented within Dragon Age. I understand that the previous title was a tad sensationalist, but replacing the title with something absurd like this doesn't make it any better.
:messenger_ok: If anyone has a new title, feel free to post and I'll edit it. For note, mod team stance (particularly in gaming) is any titles that are obviously trying to be sensationalist or introduce a stance from the off will be replaced with an anti- sensationalist/reductive title. Titles of youtube videos are not good thread titles unless sourced in the title as well.

I'm around for a short time so best title in ten posts wins.
 
Jul 7, 2018
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#33
:messenger_ok: If anyone has a new title, feel free to post and I'll edit it. For note, mod team stance (particularly in gaming) is any titles that are obviously trying to be sensationalist or introduce a stance from the off will be replaced with an anti- sensationalist/reductive title. Titles of youtube videos are not good thread titles unless sourced in the title as well.

I'm around for a short time so best title in ten posts wins.
Dragon Age 4 will be consistent with Bioware's political ideology of the past decade?

I tried...
 

Vawn

Member
Feb 20, 2018
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#34
Was it necessary for a mod to change the OP's title? It feels like censoring his opinion. I thought we were past all that here.
 
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strange headache

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#39
:messenger_ok: If anyone has a new title, feel free to post and I'll edit it.
I dunno, pick your poison ;)
  • Narrative Director confirms that new Dragon Age story will rely heavily on (personal) political messaging
  • Narrative Director of new Dragon Age confirms that "all art is politics"
  • Narrative Director admits that next Dragon Age will reflect his political views
  • Narrative Director confirms that new Dragon Age story will focus on political messaging
 
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Nov 22, 2016
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#40
Having played all of them I kind of get what he's saying, since Dragon Age always have been about recognizing anyone's values regardless of their genders or beliefs. Nothing new under the sun, but it will fuel the fire of so many clickbaiters that yeah talking about it is a mistake in the first place
 
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Jun 13, 2017
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#41
Do you know that the impression given is actually the opposite?

No matter how good the gameplay is, the moment some kind of inclusiveness is shown in advance the game is fucked. This thread is proof.
No its not. The devoloper literally says the game is supposed to "celebrate diversity". like who da fuq cares? Stop trying to push your political views onto your games, maybe if you stopped telling everyone how great it is to be a feminist you could make a decent game for a change.

I don't like how some people react to this sort of stuff, but don't necessarily disagree.

They're obviously not worried about making good games, they want to tell everyone what they should think, you're a game developer, you're not here to change the world stfu and make games.

The only politics a game should have is about the world it's in, not make commentary about the real world.
 
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Jan 15, 2018
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#43
I typically like bioware games. I’m very libertarian. I don’t let politics interfere with my game. I really enjoy the bioshock games for instance. I think infinite’s story is a travesty but I still really, really applaud how they pull of the narrative and style...

But. When the team itself uses politics as a marketing tool it makes me a bit sour.

And I don’t get why this keeps happening. They’re doubling down on sarkeesian strategies and it’s been a huge factor in these titles absolutely tanking.

So... in the end. This is just stupid
 
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Dec 6, 2018
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#45
Diversity is great and political messaging is great if its a positive messege but I just can't help thinking it's often so hamfistivly shoehorned into games that it ends up not working as it should.

When it is done well like the gay guy in The Last of Us its great and natural,cos he's just a gay guy in the game and that's that.Ellies gay as well of course and that's just as natural cos again she's just a gay girl....big deal,lol.

If EA can push these issues(which are important)into their games seemlessly then that's all good,no one needs to be upset by diversity.....I don't think they have the chops to do it if Battlefield V is any indication.
 
Mar 8, 2018
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#47
She still works in Bioware, along with some cosplayer
One great decision after another, bioware hire some more of these,fail and close down please.