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Dark Souls II |OT| The Dark Souls of Dark Souls

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Evolved1

make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
Sep 24, 2006
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My launch PS3 and Sixaxis controller have remained alive for just this purpose. It knew its destiny was to play all the Souls games and it's hanging in there. Almost brings a tear to my eye.
I changed my steelbook pre-order to a digital PSN pre-order the other day, just to ensure my PS3 lives to play the Souls trilogy.
 

Jobbs

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So in order to have awesome shadows, you need a torch with you?
Depends how you define awesome, but you don't need a torch to have shadows.

edit: changed this from an embed in case it's a minor spoiler to see a couple seconds of the early game.

Can't believe we're using streams and youtube videos to debate graphics quality, but that's where most of us are until release date. But yeah, so far it looks great to me. I have no complaints, looks much better than DkS1, and especially those animations and clothing physics -- Wow.
 

lifa-cobex

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Oct 15, 2010
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Am I the only one who doesn't really care? Both videos just make me want to play. Like I really care if the old one has more shadows and is oranger.

edit: I don't even know that the shadows are that much different. Keep watching the release version and you'll see some interesting shadows.
I see a slight difference but I really just don't care.
Blight Town didn't even bother me that much ffs.
 
Jun 6, 2010
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No. I remember when Demon's and Dark Souls first came out, the visuals were the last thing talked about. As everyone was too busy soaking in the second to none atmosphere and gameplay as they made their long and epic journeys to the end. Looking forward to doing it again. But this game does look better than either Demon's or Dark, so that is just a plus.
There wouldn't be any disappointment if they hadn't been touting a much better looking version of the game. FROM created this problem, not us.
 

Evolved1

make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
Sep 24, 2006
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Okay so you stream-watchers can at least tell me how dual wielding and parrying works now, right?

Much gratitude if so.
 

Creamium

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
Mar 10, 2005
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Lé Blade Runner;103606244 said:
This man should put us at ease regarding the graphical fidelity of the game, so listen to him!
I will say that I'm not the biggest graphics whore though, I'm not that picky. But for a game running on '05 hardware... Looks fine to me!

Love it. From gifts the player with a plethora of healing options but almost guarantees their death when used in combat. A fair trade.
So far my favorite design change in II is the approach to healing in general. Starting you off with 1 estus is a great way to keep you grounded and on your feet. It's great 'working up' to more estus. Fuck kindling man, this game has the better system :)

And using estus during some boss fights does guarantee death, it's true... If you panic-heal, you will die quickly. Timing your estus usage is a big part of the boss fight approach now.
I think this is something people will have to get used to, but will appreciate in the long run. For me, this game has the best approach to healing in all 3 games.
 

ironcreed

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Jun 4, 2011
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There wouldn't be any disappointment if they hadn't been touting a much better looking version of the game. FROM created this problem, not us.
I guess it just depends on your perspective. The game still looks better than the first one and I love what I have seen... which is quite a bit. It's going to be great.
 

Maybesew

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Character creation spoilers
So I went with bandit becuase the description says its highest in dex, but the starting weapon is an axe that increases dmg with strength.

I know in the long run this won't matter but I thought it was odd.
 

MiamiWesker

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This is the kind of stuff that bugs me about our "gaming media", shouldn't they be the ones reporting this kind of lighting downgrade to us. They all had previews of the review copy, did anyone say anything. Why do I have to come to gaf to get actual information on the game.

And as the media isn't it their job to not just report the change but maybe ask as to why. Maybe a phone call or an email to someone at FROM as an attempt to figure out why this is happening.
 

SeventhSon

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Jul 27, 2013
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This is the kind of stuff that bugs me about our "gaming media", shouldn't they be the ones reporting this kind of lighting downgrade to us. They all had previews of the review copy, did anyone say anything. Why do I have to come to gaf to get actual information on the game.

And as the media isn't it their job to not just report the change but maybe ask as to why. Maybe a phone call or an email to someone at FROM as an attempt to figure out why this is happening.
Assuming it's true, it's embargoed.
 

jimboton

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Sep 14, 2013
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Don't know if it's been mentioned but I bought Demon's Souls on release day and back then, and until the second or third patches, shadows projected by your character in the scenery were absent, but they were (weirdly) present when cast on breakable objects. It was quite noticeable but almost no one talked about it anywhere. Then at one point it was patched and shadows were now cast on the scenery as well as in objects, with no performance impact that I could see.

I don't know if we can expect something similar to happen with Dark Souls 2 since the situation is not as clearly a bug as Demons shadows but I wouldn't discard it either.
 

Psycho_Mantis

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Jul 28, 2012
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Holy fuck, you guys weren't joking: No shadows, grey everywhere, lower resolution textures. . . . Damn.
Of course we weren't. Don't mistake the hyperbole in this thread saying that we were calling this game shit everything is terrible etc. We just wanted to highlight the downgrade in graphics clearly.
 

hidden offline

Neo Member
Jul 25, 2012
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PS3 version, January 2014
From 3:49 to 5:08 (no spoilers)
From 2:22 to 2:37, torch gameplay (no spoilers)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3MdOBH-jDc&t=3m49s

PS3 version, March 2014
From 6:15 to 9:40 (no spoilers)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbBwp8MB5js&t=6m50s


Or they can decide for themselves ^^^
http://youtubedoubler.com/?video1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DA3MdOBH-jDc&start1=229&video2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DqbBwp8MB5js&start2=350&authorName=Here is a doubler to help show the changes.
 

Psycho_Mantis

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Jul 28, 2012
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This is the kind of stuff that bugs me about our "gaming media", shouldn't they be the ones reporting this kind of lighting downgrade to us. They all had previews of the review copy, did anyone say anything. Why do I have to come to gaf to get actual information on the game.

And as the media isn't it their job to not just report the change but maybe ask as to why. Maybe a phone call or an email to someone at FROM as an attempt to figure out why this is happening.
They would however Namco have embargoed reviews till launch day. Very suspicious and shady behaviour and now we know why.
 

Garcia

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Don't know if it's been mentioned but I bought Demon's Souls on release day and back then, and until the second or third patches, shadows projected by your character in the scenery were absent, but they were (weirdly) present when cast on breakable objects. It was quite noticeable but almost no one talked about it anywhere. Then at one point it was patched and shadows were now cast on the scenery as well as in objects, with no performance impact that I could see.

I don't know if we can expect something similar to happen with Dark Souls 2 since the situation is not as clearly a bug as Demons shadows but I wouldn't discard it either.
Judging by the 2 comparison videos posted up there, the new (and final) build looks to be beyond repair, even if they patched some shadows in. There's a grey aura following you that waters down every single area you visit.
 

Maybesew

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This is the kind of stuff that bugs me about our "gaming media", shouldn't they be the ones reporting this kind of lighting downgrade to us. They all had previews of the review copy, did anyone say anything. Why do I have to come to gaf to get actual information on the game.

And as the media isn't it their job to not just report the change but maybe ask as to why. Maybe a phone call or an email to someone at FROM as an attempt to figure out why this is happening.
It's embargoed until release day.
 

Jobbs

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Robot Pants

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I love how for months I was saying how bad this game looked and no one believed it, or just shrugged it off as old code or I had no idea what I was talking about, etc. I know I wasn't the only one saying this but there were very few.
Game looks pretty bad. Characters barely stand out from the environments.

Either way I'm excited for Tuesday. Amazon better not disappoint me.
 

Jobbs

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I love how for months I was saying how bad this game looked and no one believed it, or just shrugged it off as old code or I had no idea what I was talking about, etc. I know I wasn't the only one saying this but there were very few.
Game looks pretty bad. Characters barely stand out from the environments.

Either way I'm excited for Tuesday. Amazon better not disappoint me.
Game looks great to me, and better visually than DkS1 so... Okay?

Okay so you stream-watchers can at least tell me how dual wielding and parrying works now, right?

Much gratitude if so.
I captured a dual wield parry.
 

Techies

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Jan 29, 2013
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Lighting is still bland, maybe they thought it would be cooler if they got rid of all the "warmth" and make it more dreary.
 

ajb1888

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Guys, guys.. What if FROM are master trollers and have designed the game to gain better lighting and framerate upon entering NG+ ?

Maybe the E3 and beta builds were NG++

:)
 

Grinchy

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Aug 3, 2010
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In a cave outside of Whooville.
PS3 version, January 2014
From 3:49 to 5:08 (no spoilers)
From 2:22 to 2:37, torch gameplay (no spoilers)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3MdOBH-jDc&t=3m49s

PS3 version, March 2014
From 6:15 to 9:40 (no spoilers)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbBwp8MB5js&t=6m50s


Or they can decide for themselves ^^^
Man, that is such a significant difference and for seemingly no reason. It ran fine in the better, older version. I am no programmer but I don't understand why connecting that area to the rest of the world would suddenly cause it to run worse. It's not like the rest of the world is rendering.
 

MiamiWesker

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Apr 26, 2006
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Oh the embargo thing makes sense then. But werent they allowed to write previews of the final build? Or do those have rules too?
 

Garcia

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I love how for months I was saying how bad this game looked and no one believed it, or just shrugged it off as old code or I had no idea what I was talking about, etc. I know I wasn't the only one saying this but there were very few.
Game looks pretty bad. Characters barely stand out from the environments.

Either way I'm excited for Tuesday. Amazon better not disappoint me.
To me all of this is big news. I only started browsing this thread a couple of days ago and it's been a bucket of cold water to realize the PC version might be miles ahead of the console release (and we don't even know yet if that's the case).

The original PS3 demo looked gorgeous (it actually convinced me into pre-ordering) and now the released version looks like crap. Just what the fuck happened there?
 

Jobbs

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Man, that is such a significant difference and for seemingly no reason. It ran fine in the better, older version. I am no programmer but I don't understand why connecting that area to the rest of the world would suddenly cause it to run worse. It's not like the rest of the world is rendering.
I still think the main difference visible in compressed video streams is that one is oranger than the other. Maybe FromSoft just decided to make it less overwhelmingly orange, which I am okay with.

Am I insane or something? I'm very tuned in to visual details as a person, and I don't think the orange version looks astronomically better, if at all better. It's just oranger and higher contrast but substantively not much different.
 

cerulily

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Nov 26, 2013
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As someone who has played FROMSOFT games since ps1... i am shockingly weirded out by how/why people expect them to be on some bleeding edge of technology...

Yes, the lack of contrast in the lighting now is disappointing. But, it's somewhat silly to give some final verdict of the game's quality from low bitstream videos of 1 of the 3 versions of the game.

And, dark souls 1 was absolutely garbage in terms of technology and is widely regarded as one of the best games this generation (if not ever). Some people have very strange priorities. Not every development house is AAA funded, FROMSOFT has always been a B class developer who happened to hit huge on one game that snowballed into a 2nd and now 3rd.

I can't even think of a FROMSOFT game outside of their souls series that has ever been rated better than mediocre by the media/public at large. Being a FROMSOFT fan has always meant embracing uniqueness and niche over technology.
 
Jun 6, 2010
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Am I the only one who doesn't really care? Both videos just make me want to play. Like I really care if the old one has more shadows and is oranger.

edit: I don't even know that the shadows are that much different. Keep watching the release version and you'll see some interesting shadows.
For someone who claims he doesn't care you're doing an awful lot of damage control.

As someone who has played FROMSOFT games since ps1... i am shockingly weirded out by how/why people expect them to be on some bleeding edge of technology...

Yes, the lack of contrast in the lighting now is disappointing. But, it's somewhat silly to give some final verdict of the game's quality from low bitstream videos of 1 of the 3 versions of the game.

And, dark souls 1 was absolutely garbage in terms of technology and is widely regarded as one of the best games this generation (if not ever). Some people have very strange priorities. Not every development house is AAA funded, FROMSOFT has always been a B class developer who happened to hit huge on one game that snowballed into a 2nd and now 3rd.

I can't even think of a FROMSOFT game outside of their souls series that has ever been rated better than mediocre by the media/public at large. Being a FROMSOFT fan has always meant embracing uniqueness and niche over technology.
I only expected what they promised.
 

justjustin

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Sep 17, 2011
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Can't believe we're using streams and youtube videos to debate graphics quality, but that's where most of us are until release date.
If it were a matter of texture quality or resolution, or things that rely on picture sharpness, I'd agree with you, but pixels and image size don't matter when it comes to differences in lighting. If I play a high definition game on a small tube TV with composite cables then play it on a big plasma with HDMI the difference in detail will be huge, but the lighting quality will look the same to me.

Anyway, I'm surprised at the difference. This whole time I just assumed the better images were from PC builds.
 

Garcia

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As someone who has played FROMSOFT games since ps1... i am shockingly weirded out by how/why people expect them to be on some bleeding edge of technology...

Yes, the lack of contrast in the lighting now is disappointing. But, it's somewhat silly to give some final verdict of the game's quality from low bitstream videos of 1 of the 3 versions of the game.

And, dark souls 1 was absolutely garbage in terms of technology and is widely regarded as one of the best games this generation (if not ever). Some people have very strange priorities. Not every development house is AAA funded, FROMSOFT has always been a B class developer who happened to hit huge on one game that snowballed into a 2nd and now 3rd.
Just so you understand this: Had FROM not changed the quality of the demo to the final build you wouldn't be hearing any complaining at all.

I'm currently playing Kings Field III and I've never given a fuck about graphics, but bear in mind that what these guys are pulling with Dark Souls 2 is a shady practice that only fools people into believing they're getting a much better product that what's advertised.

It's not acceptable.

For someone who claims he doesn't care you're doing an awful lot of damage control.

I only expected what they promised.
This is the point. Don't miss it.
 
Feb 9, 2012
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Hey everyone, long time lurker, first or so time poster.

To me, if FROM generated hype for the improved graphics for DaS2 and fail to deliver for the console release, then they deserve blame for that or they need to provide a reason as to why the graphics are different.

It won't necessarily have an effect on my enjoyment of the game, but it's the principle of the matter. Deliver what was promise, or explain why you didn't. Accountability isn't something to fear.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
Mar 17, 2010
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As someone who has played FROMSOFT games since ps1... i am shockingly weirded out by how/why people expect them to be on some bleeding edge of technology...

Yes, the lack of contrast in the lighting now is disappointing. But, it's somewhat silly to give some final verdict of the game's quality from low bitstream videos of 1 of the 3 versions of the game.

And, dark souls 1 was absolutely garbage in terms of technology and is widely regarded as one of the best games this generation (if not ever). Some people have very strange priorities. Not every development house is AAA funded, FROMSOFT has always been a B class developer who happened to hit huge on one game that snowballed into a 2nd and now 3rd.

I can't even think of a FROMSOFT game outside of their souls series that has ever been rated better than mediocre by the media/public at large. Being a FROMSOFT fan has always meant embracing uniqueness and niche over technology.
I'm not sure why Dark Souls 1 being garbage in terms of technology means that Dark Souls 2 gets a free pass when the visuals that were initially shown are vastly different from the end product. While this shouldn't affect reviews at all, it shouldn't mean we should stand around giving FROM praise for what they showed and ignore what we got.
 

sappyday

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Dec 28, 2012
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I always felt like the original footage was too good to be true. I expected that level of detail for a Dark Souls on PS4. However I don't care at all since the sound design and level design is all that matter.
 

cerulily

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Nov 26, 2013
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Just so you understand this: Had FROM not changed the quality of the demo to the final build you wouldn't be hearing any complaining at all.

I'm currently playing Kings Field III and I've never given a fuck about graphics, but bear in mind that what these guys are pulling with Dark Souls 2 is a shady practice that only fools people into believing they're getting a much better product that what's advertised.

It's not acceptable.



This is the point. Don't miss it.
All of those demos were PS3 builds AFAIK, i am going to wait until i see the ps3 builds before calling it "shady".
 

Psycho_Mantis

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Jul 28, 2012
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To me, if FROM generated hype for the improved graphics for DaS2 and fail to deliver for the console release, then they deserve blame for that or they need to provide a reason as to why the graphics are different.

It won't necessary have an effect on my enjoyment of the game, but it's the principle of the matter. Deliver what was promise, or explain why you didn't. Accountability isn't something to fear.
Thank you this is exactly my viewpoint. I am quite disappointed in FROM.

Anyway, I've decided I'm going to a no estus run. Can't wait to just play this game -__-
 

Grinchy

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I still think the main difference visible in compressed video streams is that one is oranger than the other. Maybe FromSoft just decided to make it less overwhelmingly orange, which I am okay with.

Am I insane or something? I'm very tuned in to visual details as a person, and I don't think the orange version looks astronomically better, if at all better. It's just oranger and higher contrast but substantively not much different.
I think what makes all the difference in the world for me is the way that light actually behaves like light in the older version that was shown. From the (admittedly very few) snippets I've seen of the final version, everything just looks so flat.

I mean check out this quick comparison shot I did from the youtube videos if you don't care to be spoiled about one area that was shown off a million times months ago:


Look at how the bright light from underneath crashes against the walls and is blocked by objects, causing a dark area on the left side. In the video it flickers and creates such an awesome atmosphere. And in the bottom shot, from the new version, we have an area with comparatively no personality whatsoever.
 

Jobbs

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For someone who claims he doesn't care you're doing an awful lot of damage control.
This is silly. I have nothing to gain from this game doing better or worse. You shouldn't use belitting terms like this.

All I'm doing is offering my opinion and some *perspective*. You're so busy comparing the game to an earlier E3 build rather than compare it to Dark Souls 1. In every way that I can tell, the game compares to Dark Souls 1 very favorably. What the hell else could we want? As Dark Souls fans, this is what we'd want and expect in a sequel. More of the same, but marginally better. I can't speak to the full substance of the gameplay, obviously, but visually I'm honestly thrilled. It's not PR or "damage control", it's my honest opinion. And it seems like everyone else was pretty happy with how it looked, too, until someone decided to dig up videos of the old E3 demo and point out differences. Okay, so there are differences. I don't know why that is. But you're not seeing the forest for the trees. We're getting Dark Souls 2, and as a follow up game on the same old gen platforms, it looks in line with what you'd expect.

Hey everyone, long time lurker, first or so time poster.
To me, if FROM generated hype for the improved graphics for DaS2 and fail to deliver for the console release, then they deserve blame for that or they need to provide a reason as to why the graphics are different.
It won't necessarily have an effect on my enjoyment of the game, but it's the principle of the matter. Deliver what was promise, or explain why you didn't. Accountability isn't something to fear.
Not everyone shares your opinion that the graphics aren't improved over the original. I find it very hard to argue that they aren't better. Particularly in the animation department. We have superior animations, much more fluid, and we have clothing physics. FromSoft never promised that the graphics would never change from a pre-release demo of the game. They said it'd look better than the first game, which it does.

You know those "work in progress" disclaimers? What they mean is that some things may change. If what you care about is the "principle", you don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to these accusations.
 

Garcia

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Hey everyone, long time lurker, first or so time poster.

To me, if FROM generated hype for the improved graphics for DaS2 and fail to deliver for the console release, then they deserve blame for that or they need to provide a reason as to why the graphics are different.

It won't necessarily have an effect on my enjoyment of the game, but it's the principle of the matter. Deliver what was promise, or explain why you didn't. Accountability isn't something to fear.
Welcome to GAF and thank you for sharing your very valid point of view.
 

oroboros

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This is the kind of stuff that bugs me about our "gaming media", shouldn't they be the ones reporting this kind of lighting downgrade to us. They all had previews of the review copy, did anyone say anything. Why do I have to come to gaf to get actual information on the game.

And as the media isn't it their job to not just report the change but maybe ask as to why. Maybe a phone call or an email to someone at FROM as an attempt to figure out why this is happening.
Maybe because it's a Souls game and not everyone obsesses or gives a shit about that stuff. The people who got to play it already might be more focused on the gameplay and mechanics and all that important stuff instead. I know when I'm running around in the game I won't be going this really sucks, if only it had more shadows and an orange tint it would be amazing.

Plus games pre-release footage or betas always have some disclaimer that it's not the finished product and things might and probably will change, so I don't think it's some kind of grand conspiracy to dupe people. Maybe they just needed to change things to get better performance or whatever. You really think they don't want it looking as best it can possibly be on whatever system it's running on??

Anyway if you all are so disappointed in the eye candy not being top notch next gen whatever on the 8 year old PS3 for Christ sake, Souls game might not be for you. It's about the gameplay not the shadows.
 
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