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Dark Souls II |OT| The Dark Souls of Dark Souls

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ironcreed

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This is silly. I have nothing to gain from this game doing better or worse. You shouldn't use belitting terms like this.

All I'm doing is offering my opinion and some *perspective*. You're so busy comparing the game to an earlier E3 build rather than compare it to Dark Souls 1. In every way that I can tell, the game compares to Dark Souls 1 very favorably. What the hell else could we want? As Dark Souls fans, this is what we'd want and expect in a sequel. More of the same, but marginally better. I can't speak to the full substance of the gameplay, obviously, but visually I'm honestly thrilled. It's not PR or "damage control", it's my honest opinion. And it seems like everyone else was pretty happy with how it looked, too, until someone decided to dig up videos of the old E3 demo and point out differences. Okay, so there are differences. I don't know why that is. But you're not seeing the forest for the trees. We're getting Dark Souls 2, and as a follow up game on the same old gen platforms, it looks in line with what you'd expect.
+1
 

Brohan

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I think what makes all the difference in the world for me is the way that light actually behaves like light in the older version that was shown. From the (admittedly very few) snippets I've seen of the final version, everything just looks so flat.

I mean check out this quick comparison shot I did from the youtube videos if you don't care to be spoiled about one area that was shown off a million times months ago:


Look at how the bright light from underneath crashes against the walls and is blocked by objects, causing a dark area on the left side. In the video it flickers and creates such an awesome atmosphere. And in the bottom shot, from the new version, we have an area with comparatively no personality whatsoever.
Don't know if you noticed but it seems like there are small differences in the appearance of the area aswell.... very strange
(look at the decorative pillars and arches in front of the character)
..
 

MiamiWesker

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Maybe because it's a Souls game and not everyone obsesses or gives a shit about that stuff. The people who got to play it already might be more focused on the gameplay and mechanics and all that important stuff instead. I know when I'm running around in the game I won't be going this really sucks, if only it had more shadows and an orange tint it would be amazing.

Plus games pre-release footage or betas always have some disclaimer that it's not the finished product and things might and probably will change, so I don't think it's some kind of grand conspiracy to dupe people. Maybe they just needed to change things to get better performance or whatever. You really think they don't want it looking as best it can possibly be on whatever system it's running on??

Anyway if you all are so disappointed in the eye candy not being top notch next gen whatever on the 8 year old PS3 for Christ sake, Souls game might not be for you. It's about the gameplay not the shadows.
Of course the gameplay is what matters, that doesnt change the fact that the lighting has completely changed. And betas get a disclaimer cause they are WORSE than the finished product so they dont want you judging it yet, this time the beta looked better, that makes no sense what so ever.

The game will be fine, but you have to admit something really strange happened with this version and it would be nice to get answers.
 

kayos90

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Mar 17, 2010
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Maybe because it's a Souls game and not everyone obsesses or gives a shit about that stuff. The people who got to play it already might be more focused on the gameplay and mechanics and all that important stuff instead. I know when I'm running around in the game I won't be going this really sucks, if only it had more shadows and an orange tint it would be amazing.
They're reporters and critics. They're supposed to be conscious about the games they're covering and should be knowledgeable about the game to an extensive degree when reviewing games. If there's a drastic change then they should report it. The only reason there's no feature article being made is because there's an embargo set. Reporters/reviewers do not get a free pass on judging the game to be great no matter how great the gameplay is. If the graphics are bad or if the framerate is bad, they should say it.

Plus games pre-release footage or betas always have some disclaimer that it's not the finished product and things might and probably will change, so I don't think it's some kind of grand conspiracy to dupe people. Maybe they just needed to change things to get better performance or whatever. You really think they don't want it looking as best it can possibly be on whatever system it's running on??
Yes, the demos and previous builds are not indicative of the final product. Everyone knows this. Why is that a legitimate excuse for those reporting to not report that there is severe graphical differences between the previous shown build and the retail ones? It's not a matter of "they have a disclaimer so their ass is covered!" It's a simple matter of notifying the public of what has changed between the past and now.

Anyway if you all are so disappointed in the eye candy not being top notch next gen whatever on the 8 year old PS3 for Christ sake, Souls game might not be for you. It's about the gameplay not the shadows.
Just because it's "all about the gameplay" doesn't mean we should give free passes to other components of the game.
 

FairXchange

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Apr 26, 2010
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I've probably watched about 1 minute in total of gameplay from random videos and streams. I will continue this blackout until the game is in my PS3 and I can experience it all firsthand. In Demon's Souls and Dark Souls I relied heavily on FAQs, this time I'm going in blind and just playing through trial and error, and maybe hints from the community on here.
 

Grinchy

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In a cave outside of Whooville.
Don't know if you noticed but it seems like there are small differences in the appearance of the area aswell.... very strange
(look at the decorative pillars and arches in front of the character)
..
Yeah I did notice some things but now that I'm going back and looking it seems like many of the tiny details were changed. It seems so odd that it was changed so drastically from the beta, especially since it's for the worse.

I'm still excited to get my copy but this is disappointing.
 

Facism

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Apr 10, 2007
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Just about the only thing conclusive you can draw from tiny low res compressed artifacted video feeds is that one is much oranger than the other, and apparently some people like their games orange.
reduced geometry in some instances, such as the pillars.
 

Robot Pants

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Jun 8, 2011
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Remember when that first preview came out about the game looking close to the reveal trailer? Hahahaha hahahahahaha
 

Brohan

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Yeah I did notice some things but now that I'm going back and looking it seems like many of the tiny details were changed. It seems so odd that it was changed so drastically from the beta, especially since it's for the worse.

I'm still excited to get my copy but this is disappointing.
Yeah it freaking weird... deciding to ditch the lighting at the last moment could be explained due to performance issues... but changing the looks of certain parts of an area (for worse) just makes no sense and would only be extra work.

This makes me think that we might just be waiting for a patch, like the discs don't contain the latest version.
People shouldn't be able to play yet so it might be a possibility, it's the only explanation i can think of.
 
Jul 28, 2007
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You know, I still have Demon's Souls to finish so maybe avoiding DSII in hopes of a next gen version being announced (with the lighting and details added back in) would be wise.

Sure, it's all about the gameplay... but when you're spoiled with beautiful imagery and you're left staring at ps2 era lighting, it's kind of hard to ignore. Those foresty screen grabs always make me cringe with the complete lack of anything to spruce up the imagery. At least DS1 had the player glow and area specific color filters to give it some pop.
 
Jun 6, 2010
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This is silly. I have nothing to gain from this game doing better or worse. You shouldn't use belitting terms like this.

All I'm doing is offering my opinion and some *perspective*. You're so busy comparing the game to an earlier E3 build rather than compare it to Dark Souls 1. In every way that I can tell, the game compares to Dark Souls 1 very favorably. What the hell else could we want? As Dark Souls fans, this is what we'd want and expect in a sequel. More of the same, but marginally better. I can't speak to the full substance of the gameplay, obviously, but visually I'm honestly thrilled. It's not PR or "damage control", it's my honest opinion. And it seems like everyone else was pretty happy with how it looked, too, until someone decided to dig up videos of the old E3 demo and point out differences. Okay, so there are differences. I don't know why that is. But you're not seeing the forest for the trees. We're getting Dark Souls 2, and as a follow up game on the same old gen platforms, it looks in line with what you'd expect.
I don't have to compare it to another game because I can compare it to itself.

Hey everyone, long time lurker, first or so time poster.

To me, if FROM generated hype for the improved graphics for DaS2and fail to deliver for the console release, then they deserve blame for that or they need to provide a reason as to why the graphics are different.

It won't necessarily have an effect on my enjoyment of the game, but it's the principle of the matter. Deliver what was promise, or explain why you didn't. Accountability isn't something to fear.
That's a good point, thank you for bringing it up. During the gameplay reveal, the first thing the game director says is:

"One of the first things we immediately tried to improve in terms of Dark Souls 2 was the graphic quality of the game. So one thing we focused on obviously for Dark Souls 1 and more so in Dark Souls 2 is how much you can get deep into the game emotionally and physically and one of the things we thought was critical to that was the graphical improvements for more reality, more realistic expressions of everything we want to show in the game. And obviously you just saw the bonfires a key aspect of the game that will remain in Dark Souls 2".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_JFDPCtXFY

Like I said. FROM created the expectations, not us.
 

Shinjica

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Hey everyone, long time lurker, first or so time poster.

To me, if FROM generated hype for the improved graphics for DaS2 and fail to deliver for the console release, then they deserve blame for that or they need to provide a reason as to why the graphics are different.

It won't necessarily have an effect on my enjoyment of the game, but it's the principle of the matter. Deliver what was promise, or explain why you didn't. Accountability isn't something to fear.
My opinion too
 

oroboros

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Just because it's "all about the gameplay" doesn't mean we should give free passes to other components of the game.
I'm not giving it a free pass. From the stream footage I've seen of the game in motion it looks fine to my eyes. If some more shadows and an orange glaze makes it that much better for you, then ok. That's like your opinion man. It looks good to me, and I really don't prefer one over the other when looking at those screenshots at all. But people going on and on insinuating about how FROM and the media are now trying to rip them off and fool everyone or whatever is pretty silly. Thanks Obama.
 
Jul 7, 2007
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I've probably watched about 1 minute in total of gameplay from random videos and streams. I will continue this blackout until the game is in my PS3 and I can experience it all firsthand. In Demon's Souls and Dark Souls I relied heavily on FAQs, this time I'm going in blind and just playing through trial and error, and maybe hints from the community on here.
I've played the Souls games a year after release with the first two and used some FAQ's as well to get me through some difficult parts. I'm on the fence right now if I want to pick this up now or wait a few months until some fleshed out FAQ's hit online. I do kind of want to experience it with everyone though so I may end up picking it up next week. I've never really used the FAQ's unless I was stuck which was maybe 2-3 times.
 

justjustin

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Sep 17, 2011
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I don't think the graphical changes are that odd. If a game is being developed to look and perform as well as possible it seems more efficient to start with more, then subtract elements little by little. I also got the sense from interviews that this new engine is designed to be modular, so maybe they can add and remove graphical elements and techniques in a flexible way.

I do the same sort of thing when I play PC games. I max out settings then bump them down in efficient ways to get the game running well. Maybe the same philosophy was applied to Dark Souls 2. With everything needing to be accounted for when playing the final build, they trimmed elements that were too taxing.
 

Psycho_Mantis

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I'm not giving it a free pass. From the stream footage I've seen of the game in motion it looks fine to my eyes when running. If some more shadows and an orange glaze makes it that much better for you, then ok. That's like your opinion man. It looks good to me, and I really don't prefer one over the other when looking at those screenshots at all. But people going on and on insinuating about how FROM and the media are now trying to rip them off and fool everyone or whatever is pretty silly. Thanks Obama.
Why don't you look at it through the eyes of the people who see it as a downgrade:

If a game was shown, and advertised as having the graphics we saw in the old build and beta and without anyone knowing they decided to downgrade the graphics, would you not be pissed of as a customer for them deceiving you.

The graphics don't look bad at all but its about them not being honest that is riling people up.
 

Servbot24

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That's a good point, thank you for bringing it up. During the gameplay reveal, the first thing the game director says is:

"One of the first things we immediately tried to improve in terms of Dark Souls 2 was the graphic quality of the game. So one thing we focused on obviously for Dark Souls 1 and more so in Dark Souls 2 is how much you can get deep into the game emotionally and physically and one of the things we thought was critical to that was the graphical improvements for more reality, more realistic expressions of everything we want to show in the game. And obviously you just saw the bonfires a key aspect of the game that will remain in Dark Souls 2".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_JFDPCtXFY

Like I said. FROM created the expectations, not us.
But the graphics ARE better than DS1. They're delivering on their promise. They don't promise when they show an earlier build "All of our shadows will look exactly like the ones you see here!" They are simply showing their progress. This should be abundantly self-evident even to the most casual of audiences.

I don't understand how people are complaining that a PS3 game looks only slightly better than another PS3 game by the exact same company. The expectations you people are setting are absolutely bizarre.
 
Jun 6, 2010
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But the graphics ARE better than DS1. They're delivering on their promise. They don't promise when they show an earlier build "All of our shadows will look exactly like the ones you see here!" They are simply show their progress.

I don't understand how people are complaining that a PS3 game looks only slightly better than another PS3 game by the exact same company. the expectations you people are setting are absolutely bizarre.
DkS2 looks like DkS1 with cloth physics but worse textures. YAY!

Let's just forget about all the footage leading to the release of the game.
 

MiamiWesker

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I don't understand how people are complaining that a PS3 game looks only slightly better than another PS3 game by the exact same company. The expectations you people are setting are absolutely bizarre.
We seem to keep going in circles. THIS game had all the looks and ran amazing in the PS3 beta. It is not expectations, we actually played it and it magically changed for the worse in the last moment.

For me its not so much the look itself, i just want to know why this happened.
 

SJRB

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May 10, 2012
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I was gonna get baited again, but honestly, if the discussion is going to be characterized by hyperbolic unsubstantiated attacks, then I'll never get anywhere by replying to them. If you hate how it looks, go on and enjoy your life. Go with Umbasa brah.
Fixed and agreed.
 
Jun 6, 2010
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I was gonna get baited again, but honestly, if the discussion is going to be characterized by hyperbolic unsubstantiated attacks, then I'll never get anywhere by replying to them. If you hate how it looks, go on and enjoy your life. Go with christ brah.
Look at the official screenshots. Textures are extremely poor.
 

E92 M3

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Yay - my guide shipped from Amazon; should be here Monday. Gonna keep that bad boy sealed.
 

Toxi

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I'm wondering if it actually has worse textures or if marketing managed to snap shots of the Lost Izalith-style ass-tier textures. See Centipede Demon.
Why don't you look at it through the eyes of the people who see it as a downgrade:

If a game was shown, and advertised as having the graphics we saw in the old build and beta and without anyone knowing they decided to downgrade the graphics, would you not be pissed of as a customer for them deceiving you.

The graphics don't look bad at all but its about them not being honest that is riling people up.
Yeah, this is what gets me. The footage I've seen doesn't look bad, it just looks worse than what we were shown and we were given no indication that it was changed.
 

nynt9

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No one promised anything to you. Footage of games before they're completed is subject to change. As they add more things to a game, they will need to optimize and cut corners to ensure performance. Footage from months ago can not be used to judge a final build. Game development is a process where you have to constantly tweak things until you go gold.
 

jim2point0

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Looks like they just chose a different color palette in the end? The first one looks cooler imo, but it doesn't look like a downgrade, just a change of style.
Sorry for using an example from youtube videos but look here:



That's a massive difference in lighting, not just colors. The level is also more detailed in the top (especially the pillars).

It makes all video game videos prior to this look like they were just very prettied up vertical slices. I really hope that's not he case on PC, but I can't imagine them having more detailed levels and completely different lighting. I can only hope....
 

Jobbs

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again, was gonna reply, but then I looked at the basis of comparison, the source material, and had to laugh. we're really doing this? Dissecting and comparing based on THOSE images? compressed, heavily artifacted youtube images stretched out? What's more, I really can't tell any substantive differences other than the hue of the room. They decided to make it warmer and more contrasty in the old one, but the detail in the pillars you allude to doesn't exist in these images, and the ground only looks "less detailed" because the second image he's standing forward near that body and the pile on the ground is behind him and not in the shot. It seems like you cherry picked different positions in the terrain to help support the conclusion you wanted everyone to come to.

just not gonna do it. nah, gah, dah.

 

elhav

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Jun 22, 2013
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If it's for the sake of performance I'm all for it. Yeah, it's a bit disappointing, but it's not that much of a problem in my eyes.. Game still looks good from the little I have seen.
 

Toxi

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Sorry for using an example from youtube videos but look here:

That's a massive difference in lighting, not just colors. The level is also more detailed in the top (especially the pillars).

It makes all video game videos prior to this look like they were just very prettied up vertical slices. I really hope that's not he case on PC, but I can't imagine them having more detailed levels and completely different lighting. I can only hope....
Not disagreeing (good observation on the pillars), but you're taking shots from slightly different points of the level. The ground is different because it switches from scattered gravel to cobblestone between those points.

I saw some footage of the level and the biggest difference I noticed was that the salamanders on the bottom level were gone. Hope that doesn't mean they were removed.
 
Jun 6, 2010
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I can't believe some people care more about the lighting than the damn game.
And here come the strawmen.

No one promised anything to you. Footage of games before they're completed is subject to change. As they add more things to a game, they will need to optimize and cut corners to ensure performance. Footage from months ago can not be used to judge a final build. Game development is a process where you have to constantly tweak things until you go gold.
Completely scrapping your lighting engine a month before release is not the same as optimization.

Also there were no "this doesn't represent the final product" disclaimers anywhere. They intended all that footage to represent the game.
 

Daschysta

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Jan 11, 2011
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I can't believe some of you are actually defending FROM at this point.
You don't know why it was changed any more than anyone else does. If the change wad necessary to ensure good performance throughout then I'm in favor of it. It looks better than DAS, that's all that really matters.
So many histrionics over a game from a company that NEVER has top tier graphics or production values in their games...
 

jim2point0

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Not disagreeing (good observation on the pillars), but you're taking shots from slightly different points of the level. The ground is different because it switches from scattered gravel to cobblestone between those points.
Possibly. But this is the same room from damn near the same angle:

I was really hyped (for the graphics\art) due to all the footage up uintil now looking like that top image. It's a drastic change, if you ask me.
 
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