ph33rknot
Banned
in Japan Xbox isn't ever on the level of the psp why wast time on it's just business
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Dark1x of Digital Foundry says that he noticed a odd trend of a few games starting to perform better on PS4 Pro than Xbox One X
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Blood Borne
Member
Nier Automata and FFXV are better on Xbox One X than PS4 Pro.
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ph33rknot
Banned
come on the Xbox has never been popular in Japan its just business and yes don't you remember people claiming lazy devs even when Sony said themselves they purposely made the ps3 hard to develop for
ph33rknot
Banned
there are always exceptions to the rules
LMJ
Member
While it's true Xbox sells abysmally in Japan, that doesn't mean that they don't see the merit of the business occurring across the seas.
Like the post above me said, certain Japanese games perform better on the X than the Pro, again I think it just has to do with the amount of people who are available to work on it or the budget allotted to bring the true power of the X to shine...
Otherwise I think they just brute force it over the standard Xbox One version.
Blood Borne
Member
You have absolutely no proof whatsoever that Japanese aren’t putting effort into both consoles. Just pure speculation. I like how you just dismissed two games that doesn’t fit your narrative. Resident Evil 2, The Evil Within 2, Final Fantasy XV, Nier Automata, Dragon Ball FighterZ, Ace Combat 7, all these Japanese games are better on Xbox One X than PS4 Pro according to Digital Foundry. But I guess they are all “the exception”.
ph33rknot
Banned
I'm not saying that its malicious
Blood Borne
Member
Malicious or not, where’s your proof that Japanese developers aren’t putting in effort?
If those games are the exception, list the games that are the rule.
You're pushing the no proof thing a little far. One console does not sell there, and the other sells just fine. It's natural to assume the devs there focus more on the console that actually sells. You may be right, but you may not be right. My guess is they probably sell games to the Japanese audience that never get ported to Xbox at all due to lack of interest. If that is correct, do those games count as proof of lack of developmental effort?
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Aintitcool
Banned
The comparison digital foundry never makes is the how PS4 exclusives > one exclusives in fun factor and cool art.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
They are comparing the same games not console warring
Blood Borne
Member
Fact. There are more Japanese games that perform better on Xbox One X than PS4 than vice versa, therefore there’s no basis for such a narrative.
Also, Japanese games performed better on Original Xbox than PS2. Lots of Japanese games performed better on Xbox 360 than PS3.
It’s just a ridiculous fanboy narrative, they think developers have the same fanboy mindset as them. Such narrative undermines the hardwork they do.
ethomaz
Banned
Not in 1080p... the game won’t reach the peak of Pro’s bandwidth at that resolution.
A person can reasonably assume that resources are focused on the more popular system for business reasons, as opposed to for console wars reasons.
But anyway, are there Japanese focused games that have not released on Xbox at all?
ph33rknot
Banned
more ps4 out there almost 4-1 in some places im going to assume the lead platform is the ps4 Xbox is an after thought but i really don't give a shit you seem way more invested in this than i am so ill leave it at that
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
I tested it at PS4 Pro settings on a RX 480 8GB 911MHz core, 1700MHz mem and a number of scenarios debunk your claim, "Witcher 3 could have easily had a 1080 60fps mode on PRO." Crookback bog in particular shatters that dream...
Fraps 1-min benchmark, Crookback Bog:
PS4 Pro settings, Medium Textures, 1080p:
Min = 42
Max = 64
Avg = 54.800
PS4 Pro settings, High Textures, 1080p:
Min = 33
Max = 60
Avg = 52.867
60fps Performance mode on the Pro would require dynamic resolution with drops to 900p in heavy performance areas, and that is on the GPU side of things. In CPU heavy areas like Novigrad I don't think you're getting your "easy 1080p/60fps" either. DF commented on this a bit...
So you're not getting easy 1080p/60fps in Crookback Bog, anywhere around Novigrad, and any area with heavy alpha transparency usage. Even Igni can cause issues.
ph33rknot
Banned
why so invested do you own some Sony stock
Blood Borne
Member
As expected, if you have no rebuttal, then you go personal. I guess the conversation is over.
ph33rknot
Banned
mods why no delete
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ph33rknot
Banned
i just don't give a fuck and i only own a Xbox it makes business sense to me why you would put more effort in to the product that sells more but fuck it
Negotiator
Member
Even a dynamic 900-1080p unlocked framerate mode (30-60 fps) would be better than locked 30 fps. UC4 MP runs great at 900p 60 fps. Way better than 1080p30 on the Campaign!
Witcher 3 runs at 1080p 30 fps on OG PS4 (1.84 TF). It's not unreasonable to expect an unlocked mode with 4.2 TF...
And yes, I know about CPU issues. AI pathfinding (Novigrad NPCs) on this game seems to be CPU-based, in contrary with others:
And alpha effects could be tweaked/optimized a bit. Other games prefer to use dithering (Uncharted 4).
Lack of HDR on PS4 is also baffling. The internal rendering pipeline is already HDR-ready. It doesn't reduce the performance AFAIK.
Anyway, the bottom line is that this game will run like crap on PS5, for no apparent reason. Same for games like AC Unity (that also desperately needs a Pro/X patch).
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thelastword
Banned
The video I showed you was max settings, no hairworks (in the latter half), it only used 2GB of Vram, the system has enough memory... The PS4 also has it's own 20Gb/s bus that connects Memory/CPU/GPU, so make provision for console architecture......I'm sorry, this game is just not optimized for PS4, it never was, even now, on a more than 2x GPU increase and a boost to the CPU clocks on PRO, mins fall to 21fps......The game originally run better on an XBONES over PS4, when now that console can't even keep up to PS4.....
Also.....Me saying that PRO should get a 60fps mode does not mean it would be locked 60fps......FYI, these are the stats for the 60fps mode on XBONEX...
The PRO version patched performs worse or on par with the XBONES version, that alone should clue you in.....So you mean to tell me PRO can't keep a 30fps line like the XBONEX can at a lower resolution? It's just not a good port to PS4......Has nothing to do with the hardware...
TheAdmiester
Member
Ah, so a game running badly on PS4 is clearly just a bad port, but a game running badly on the X (Anthem) is clearly down to the hardware. Got it.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Digital Foundry mentioned that the unpatched "performance" mode they induced on the Xbox One X was not the best way to play the game because of large framerate variation. I believe that's the Xbox One base version that has dynamic res and unlocked framerate, so it would basically be the PS4 version unlocked.
The X1X runs the game at twice the res as the Pro iirc and has a faster CPU, so even at 1080p the Pro would fair much worse in general. Did you see the DF Novigrad clip I linked? There's no way around that. Then you're at 900p in Crookback Bog and any alpha heavy areas. Hmm. I agree with DF that a locked 30fps is better.
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2x increase in GPU compute, but not memory bandwidth and CPU speed. Your own chart shows that dynamic, surely you can see it. The "XBONEX" as you call maintains a solid 30fps while the PS4 Pro poops it's pants at half the resolution with a Min of 21fps.
Let's take into consideration also that your chart is showing what, like a 3-min. test in what area? Do that 3-min in Novigrad or Crookback Bog and we'll see how close it gets to 60fps on Xbox One X.
This game runs just like you'd expect on both the PS4 and the Pro. The Pro can't have your "easy 1080p/60fps" mode because of the reasons that I mentioned along with DF.
Did you have a chance to read my post where I tested the same GPU and it couldn't handle Crookback Bog at 1080p/60fps(look at the wild framerate variation!)? In the same post I linked DF testing the pre-patch version of TW3 on Xbox One X and it can't handle Novigrad at all at 1080p/60fps even with a faster CPU.
What makes you think PS4 Pro is getting away with an even weaker CPU?
Negotiator
Member
First of all, you're overstating the CPU advantage. It's marginally faster (2.3 vs 2.13 GHz -> 8% difference). Same with OG XB1 vs PS4. You're not going to get a massive fps difference in CPU-bound games.
Regarding GPU/RAM, yeah, there's a sizeable difference, just like OG PS4 vs XB1. And yet, games like AC Unity are still locked at 900p because "reasons".
DF can say a lot of things, doesn't mean they're always right. For example, the "CPU handles decompression" rhetoric to criticize the weak CPU is 100% false and they keep saying it all the time. How many people know that there's a dedicated co-processor for that (Zlib decoder)? Same for audio. The CPU on consoles isn't meant to be a jack of all trades like on PC. Totally different philosophy.
Witcher 3 isn't the best optimized game on both consoles. Even the XB1X could do more on this game with proper optimization. Overtaxing the GPU with alpha effects doesn't sound very efficient, consoles are not brute force machines. That's why there's dithering. Overtaxing the CPU with AI pathfinding isn't very smart either, it's just PC-centric philosophy of programming. We've seen what other games can do on both consoles. And yes, I know they have different engines, but the customer only cares about the result in the end. Why should I care if PUBG is unoptimized on XB1X and thus delivers 20 fps? Fuck 'em, I'll play Apex Legends instead!
I understand why some people would prefer native 4k locked 30 fps, but you also have to understand why some other people would prefer native 1080p unlocked fps (Tomb Raider, God of War, Forza Horizon 4 etc.)
There's nothing wrong with having a binary set of choices.
You choose what fits you best, and I'll choose what fits me best as well.
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thelastword
Banned
Not all cases are the same.....Witcher 3 was a bad port, at least the XBOX versions were decent, but the PS4/PRO version were horrendous ports based on what this title rendered....RER2 was a horrendous port to PS4 as well, AC-Unity too.......These are facts...
On the flip, I've never said that Anthem is supposed to run better on PRO, I've highlighted some CPU issues with X hardware, with Anthem and again with Apex.....So when 4A games made their statement "that you could get more out of the PS4 CPU" it rang true........People keep talking about the 8% CPU differences between PRO and XBONEX, they even did against XBONES and PS4, but I always told folk, Microsoft had a reason to overclock their CPU's higher than PS4/PRO....It's because their OS requires more CPU cycles at runtime......So why is an openworld game like Anthem running better on PRO? Well XBONEX has more bandwidth and more memory and a higher clocked GPU, so 4k should be a no brainer whilst holding better perf, but we're not seeing that and we have not seen that in quite a few titles.....1080p(PS4) vs 900p (XBONES) and even some cases of 720p(XBONES), PS4 held better framerate and better effects too......Some titles had PS4 ahead of XBONEX by 15fps, BF4 camapaign was ahead of XBONES by at least 10fps....It's not the same here.......So there must be another issue....
Yet for Anthem we shall wait to see how it pans out, hopefully Bioware addresses what ever issues exist......
Everybody use to say the PS4 CPU (the 1.6 vs 1.75 clocks) were responsible for some 5fps difference in Unity between PS4 vs XBONES, GTAV "that one was fixed", I guess PS4 downloaded some CPU cycles there.....Yet they highlighted CPU issues for so many titles in analyses and on forums, but that was all false......Are you saying beyond these early games or unoptimized games that no other title or openworld game is using the more powerful CPU of the XBONES? It still has a higher clock than PS4? NO?
Yet my issue with Witcher is that it is too glaring.....persons said that Witcher 3 run better on XBONES over PS4 because of the CPU (1.6 vs 1.75)....So if we use that same logic, PRO's CPU is much better than the 1.75Ghz on XBONES at 2.13Ghz, why is Witcher still falling to 21fps on PRO?......And tbh, I've seen lower framerates in the DLC on NXgamer's analysis.......So 1.31 Tflops vs 4.2Tflops in a GPU and 1.75Ghz vs 2.13Ghz and I'm still getting 21fps????
DF said that for many titles and after I played "unlocked" I could not go back.......Shadowfall, TRDE, Infamous and the list goes on..........DF says games feels smoother with motion blur, never happened for me.....I Play without MB in SFV on PC, (there's, none on the PS4 version thank goodness), I played without MB in Uncharted Remaster and many games that gave me the option.....So yes, that is their opinion and not necessarily facts. I prefer higher frames every time for better controller response and many other people do too......Besides, when next gen comes, I don't have to go begging devs for a patch, because unlocked games will just run at 60fps from the get go....
PRO saw a 24% increase in bandwidth rounded over PS4.....How much memory bandwidth do you need to run a game that uses 2GB Vram on average at 1080p max on PC? This means much less Vram is used on consoles, with lower rez textures and settings.....I've also shown you how Witcher 3 runs easily on low end CPU's....
4K CB/1620p locked 30fps and a 1080p 60fps mode (average 53-55fps) should be a no brainer......If they wanted they could even have done 1080p-900p dynamic rez for better perf....
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Has nothing to do with overstating, it's slower and will perform worse in CPU-bound situations(i.e. - Novigrad).
I'm cool if you'd like to compare the Xbox and Playstation, but to be clear, my posts were about the PS4 Pro and the RX 480. I don't need to use the Xbox One base or whatever as some weird metric, I have the GPU and the game.
This is pretty clear cut, and they reference NXGamer and VGTech in that same segment I linked if you get a chance to watch...
NXGamer analysis pre-patch Xbox One X running base console version. Even the Griffin fight is dropping frames left and right on the much faster Xbox One X...
RX 480 8GB at 6TF like Xbox One X, but with Ryzen 1600 instead of Jaguar in consoles:
Novigrad is CPU bound.
You shouldn't prefer that on the Pro for the reasons I listed. Novigrad is so CPU bound you'll be seeing drops into the 30s. Meanwhile, Pro will be GPU bound in the Bog and you'll be seeing drops to the 30s there as well. Have no doubt that PC is the way to play TW3 if you're looking for high framerates.
That sounds good, but let's both decide to play TW3 on PC.There's nothing wrong with having a binary set of choices.
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Can somebody tell me how we ended with all this because I said 1080p/60fps would not be "easy" on PS4 Pro? I felt that was a legit assertion backed by science.
Voost Kain
Banned
Wait doesn't the same user have an account on Gag as well?
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Has nothing to do with overstating, it's slower and will perform worse in CPU-bound situations(i.e. - Novigrad).
I'm cool if you'd like to compare the Xbox and Playstation, but to be clear, my posts were about the PS4 Pro and the RX 480. I don't need to use the Xbox One base or whatever as some weird metric, I have the GPU and the game.
This is pretty clear cut, and they reference NXGamer and VGTech in that same segment I linked if you get a chance to watch...
NXGamer analysis pre-patch Xbox One X running base console version. Even the Griffin fight is dropping frames left and right on the much faster Xbox One X...
RX 480 8GB at 6TF like Xbox One X, but with Ryzen 1600 instead of Jaguar in consoles:
Novigrad is CPU bound.
You shouldn't prefer that on the Pro for the reasons I listed. Novigrad is so CPU bound you'll be seeing drops into the 30s. Meanwhile, Pro will be GPU bound in the Bog and you'll be seeing drops to the 30s there as well. Have no doubt that PC is the way to play TW3 if you're looking for high framerates.
That sounds good, but let's both decide to play TW3 on PC.
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Can somebody tell me how we ended with all this because I said 1080p/60fps would not be "easy" on PS4 Pro? I felt that was a legit assertion backed by science.
1080p/60 high settings = 4k/60 med settings > 4k/30 high settings >>>>> 4k/~25 ultra settings >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8k/10 raytracing ultimate settings
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CrustyBritches
Gold Member
I'm not that person and we don't need to use that logic. You don't even need to compare the Xbox, you can see PS4 Pro dropping frames compared to PS4 for yourself...
You're not accounting for patches either. This is the release version below, compare it with the same sequence on the patched version above...
I counted around 10 noticeable frame drops on the old PS4 version, but only saw tiny jitters on the newer patch.
This is a legit request and I can agree with it a lot more than "just because it's easy".
TW3 likes higher memory bandwidth even at 1080p...
"average 53-55fps" sounds a lot different than "easily have a 1080p/60fps mode.", and it would be more like 40-50fps for large chunks of the game with drops into the 30s all the time. Why suffer? Just play on PC if you want higher performance.
Anyway, thanks for the convo. I'll let you have the last word.
Negotiator
Member
So that was your endgame all along? Pushing PCMR rhetoric, even though no one asked for it? Just tell me that you're biased from the get-go, no need for all this prologue.Have no doubt that PC is the way to play TW3 if you're looking for high framerates.
That sounds good, but let's both decide to play TW3 on PC.
Dude listen, I'm not interested in PCs these days. Broken Windows 10 updates, new GPU drivers breaking things, dozens of launchers etc etc. Not interested, sorry. This is a thread about consoles, not PCs.
I have both consoles and I want the best from both of them. That's not unreasonable to ask for, no matter how much it dissatisfies you (both PS4/XB1 sold better than expected, "consoles are dead", "get a PC" blah blah blah). PCs tend to rely on brute force instead of doing things the smart way. I never liked that philosophy (from the home computing era) and I still don't like it. I'm just pointing that out. Sorry if it bothers you!
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Lol. Don't be such a tool, bucky.So that was your endgame all along? Pushing PCMR rhetoric, even though no one asked for it? Just tell me that you're biased from the get-go, no need for all this prologue.
Dude listen, I'm not interested in PCs these days. Broken Windows 10 updates, new GPU drivers breaking things, dozens of launchers etc etc. Not interested, sorry. This is a thread about consoles, not PCs.
You can't have "easy 1080p/60fps mode" like TLW said, I explained it in-depth. If you want unlocked ranging from 30fps-60fps, fine. What the fuck do I care? PS4 Pro cannot do 1080p/60fps at PS4 settings. It's a problem on both the CPU and the GPU end of things.
You brought up the PCMR shit while begging for frame scraps from CDPR and being edgy because the Pro cannot deliver it. What I said was true, if you want high framerates you must play on PC. Disprove that with actual metrics, or fuck off with your spin and personal attacks.
Negotiator
Member
You sound like a butthurt PCMR elitist. Ignored (1st person on this forum)!
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CrustyBritches
Gold Member
So instead of posting metrics to back your assertions, you've decided to have a breakdown, attack me personally, and run away when I ask for your proof. You can't have TW3 at 1080p/60fps at PS4 settings on PS4 Pro. Change my mind...
thelastword
Banned
Games that were also said to be CPU bound were patched later on PS4 with better performance.....And clearly proved those CPU claims were never true....If a 1.75Ghz CPU is suppose to do so much better than a 1.6GHz CPU, then that logic falls flat on it's face when you can't explain why the 2.13Ghz CPU is still falling to 21 fps min just as the 1.75Ghz CPU'd console......The bog saw a 4-5 fps advantage for XBONES over PS4 at times, you're telling me that the slight upclock on a weak CPU is responsible for these 4-5 fps and the 5 fps in Unity as well? Also, what happened to the XBONES in all these recent CPU bound and open world games over PS4?
PRO is not GPU bound anywhere in the bog.....So why was PS4 dropping more frames in the bog over XBONES when it had more bandwidth, faster memory, a 20Gb/s sub bus and 32 ROPS? speciafically for 1080p resolution? You can't have it both ways...
I always said PC was the best place to play, not because consoles could not run this game better, but because these were bad ports....I bought Witcher 3 first on PC and vowed never to buy Unity and Wicther 3 on consoles. I only bought it on sale for consoles when they patched the PRO version, but that still did not perform up to par.......That sounds good, but let's both decide to play TW3 on PC.
Can somebody tell me how we ended with all this because I said 1080p/60fps would not be "easy" on PS4 Pro? I felt that was a legit assertion backed by science.
Yet, what you are trying to suggest is similar to this......You're trying to impress folk that consoles could not do better on this game, when it intially had settings on low and below low......It's like when people try to impress on you that Dishonored Remastered could not run at 1080p 60fps on PS4 or Payday could not run at 1080p 60fps if some effort went into it....For these examples stated, not even much effort at that......The loadtimes, lod, textures in Witcher, everything graphcially was below par in that game compared to other open world games on consoles, so of course it was best on PC.........I bet you, one day, a guy from CDPR will admit that they didn't do the best for consoles, moreso the PS4 version which was bludgeoned, and people would still say it's the best consoles could have done.......Some people still believe that PS4 could not render Unity at 1080p or it could not run that game better......When every other openworld game after the Parite debacle run better on PS4...
Of course the PRO is dropping frames, but that is the point, it's a bad port....It was on PS4 and doubly so on PRO.
Patches means nothing, the game is still dropping frames in many scenarios...
Well I've explained it before, but apparently you'd rather not understand......A 1080p 60fps mode does not mean locked 60fps, that's why I said "60fps mode"....."4K mode" on consoles don't always mean native 4K most times, just the mode you use on your 4k screen.....I even said to you that the XBONEX 60fps mode is around 55 average, so the point of that was that CDPR could have easily given PRO users a 60fps mode just like XBONEX received.....I'm only talking the mode here.....I have a feeling that you understood that tbh......
Again, I'll take a high framerate mode or 60fps mode over a 4k mode that dips to 21fps.......At least in combat scenarios, framerate would be much higher, which is where you need it and this would feel much smoother to play on PRO.....
LuvOfThaGame
Banned
It's too bad that DF, NX, and VGT are such small groups and do not have the resources to go back 30 days after release to check updates to the game and see how performances change. AC7 already got an 800mb update the first week on xb1x, where ps4p was only about 200mb. I'd be willing to bet that everyone is arguing over launch performance when these issues get ironed out and most likely end up running best perf on xb1x every time. There is no secret sauce. It boils down to optimizations and how much time the studio has to put into before launch. Of course devs will put that more towards ps as it's the largest install base. Same thing happened with 360 last gen. But it doesn't mean it stays that way. So congratulations that the pro can run a few frames better at an average of 50% less resolution at launch, I guess. It doesn't remain that way after a few patches.
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