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#DarkSoulsDowngrade and #YOULIED \\ a.k.a You got some splainin' to do, Namco

FairXchange

Member
Apr 26, 2010
3,970
50
785
So nice, you quoted me twice ;3

I deal with english on a daily basis as part of my job, thanks for the horrible attempt at a personal insult though.

I'm not going to get personal with you sir, I'm waiting to see if what I wrote elicits an actual response rather than continued hostility on your part.
 

nynt9

Member
Jun 7, 2013
10,858
2
620
That is your opinion, it is very rare for someone to come in here and say that they even used the torches at all.

You seem to be an outlier.

Look at my image that I quoted two posts above. Would you say that the torch is irrelevant there?
 

Raven77

Member
Jul 4, 2012
3,533
0
445
Why stop there. Big Macs look nothing like the Big Macs on the posters #bigmacdowngrade #youlied and MickeyD's have like billion times more money than Scamco.


Nope, when I buy a Big Mac, it comes with everything advertised.

When I buy Dark Souls 2, I don't get the Dragons advertised on the bridge scene, the missing environmental objects, etc.
 

nynt9

Member
Jun 7, 2013
10,858
2
620
Correct me if I'm wrong. But it looks like they substituted darkness with some kind of green puke fog?

No, that's an area where there is literally nothing outside so there is nothing to see - the fog isn't a darkness effect it's just nothingness for quite a distance.
 

atr0cious

Member
Jan 15, 2014
8,736
0
0
SF Bay Area
www.twitch.tv
The beta is not indicative of the final gameplay, also, mechanics are phased out heavily during production time. There are thousands of game mechanics that were removed from games, all because they weren't that good.

The torches are still helpful though, so if you have fears about useless torches, then maybe your fears are based on ignorant conclusions.
Please tell me about mechanics that were publicized only to be taken away without any comment on the matter? The beta was a network test only a month ago. And there are people in here who've played the game, who contend the torches are severely muted in their use. This is about their dishonesty by actively hiding the truth, going so far as to show videos up to release with "pc" footage. Just want accountability, on top of making a good game.
 

Gbraga

Member
Aug 6, 2009
23,746
0
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I'm done with this thread.
I know there is enough people that are not genuine in this concern for the console versions.

They are just using it as a way to beg for an upgrade on PC. Or get confirmation that what was shown in the bullshots will in fact be in the PC release.

To all of you with this ulterior motive, shame on you.

But what does "doing this" mean? I'm not twitting anyone, I don't even agree with the #YOULIED tag, I think it's way too hostile, I'm not gonna cancel preorders if the PC version is also downgraded, in fact I'm going to place mine on monday, and as I said more than once, I'm more curious than mad, I wanna know what happened, I'm not demanding they make the PC version like that, I'm just wondering if they will.

How can you take my example to make a "you people" statement? I'm one of those guys who said "I agree that cancelling preorders over this is silly, but let's respect them, they have the right to". What does my expectations have to do with people making this thread?

Some people are more worried about the lost atmosphere and gameplay mechanics because of the downgrade, some people are more pissed about the fact that if the game didn't leak, we wouldn't even know about this after every day one purchase was made, some people don't care at all and think that if the game is good, who cares.

There is no "the Dark Souls downgrade thread people", we all think differently here.

I'm not pretending to be concerned about the console version. The PS3 version in special runs not so great, how would they improve the graphics?

You're mistaking everyone who's posting here for the thread creators. I'm not fighting the good fight, trying to represent mislead consumers, I'm just curious.
 

Cheech

Member
Aug 14, 2007
6,653
0
0
Michigan
I would be very happy if Namco would simply post a current PC screenshot from one of the contested areas.

The misleading marketing is pretty shit as well but getting a publisher to admit to that kind of thing is practically impossible.

They aren't going to say anything. They have two versions of the game to sell, and know many PC buyers are double dipping. Why risk sales by showing off a vastly better version of the game? We already know it's going to be 60 fps vs. 30 fps.
 

_machine

Member
Oct 12, 2011
2,974
0
0
Germany
Nope, when I buy a Big Mac, it comes with everything advertised.

When I buy Dark Souls 2, I don't get the Dragons advertised on the bridge scene, the missing environmental objects, etc.
So basically you're saying that developers can't change anything about the game during development? There were dragons when they filmed the trailer, but come release they had to cut it out and at that point there's no way to make a new trailer (which actually takes months, easily more time than it would have to make the decision to downgrade the game to make the release) and there's no real chance of losing a legal case for reasons those more educated in the matter can surely tell better.

EDIT:
There's also one real point against the misleading advertising: as long as the PC version delivers somewhat near the trailer quality they can defend by saying the trailer was cut from the PC version. It's pretty much common practice anyway, you take the version that looks best and touch it up to make the best trailer. Most trailers show player action or camera angles that cannot be reproduced in the game and that's usually fine so you can't even expect the trailer to be 100% representative of the actual game.
 

brian!

Member
Jan 31, 2011
13,273
0
0
one time burger king lied to me i mean
the burger i got did not look like the picture at all

dang this already got covered nm
 

Jarate

Banned
Jul 18, 2009
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Please tell me about mechanics that were publicized only to be taken away without any comment on the matter? The beta was a network test only a month ago. And there are people in here who've played the game, who contend the torches are severely muted in their use. This is about their dishonesty by actively hiding the truth, going so far as to show videos up to release with "pc" footage. Just want accountability, on top of making a good game.

Fable
 

UrbanRats

Member
Jun 25, 2009
40,855
2
830
^^^ I think project Ego/Fable's massive downgrade was made public before launch, though i could be remembering wrong.

Yes, all the time.

#GTAIVfingerlessGloves

Still a shitty practice that needs to die, whether "everybody do it" or not.
 

Gbraga

Member
Aug 6, 2009
23,746
0
0
Yep! Here's my screenshot of that area showing how big a difference it makes:



Really goes to show the "torches are useless!" complaints are simply untrue.

Judging from the screenshots, I'd still say you don't need a torch, but they're definitely not useless, which pleases me a lot.

I'll carry them around all the time if I can just for that pretty lighting.

this seems unlikely. the console versions have a ~6 week head start on the PC, and it would be foolish for FROM / Namco to poison their relationships with Sony and Microsoft by showcasing what will almost certainly be a superior PC version. A ton of people already bought the console version because they couldn't wait. Why rub it in their faces that they bought the inferior version (even though this is obvious)?

Well, normally I'd have no problem with that, but normally we would have an idea of how the PC version would look like judging from the videos, now we have 3 different builds and no idea of which one is closer to the PC version.

If they can't show it, at least confirm via twitter or whatever. Honestly, even if they say "it's like the retail version, shut up" it'd be enough already. At least I'd know and we could get over it sooner. Not knowing sucks.
 

skullwolfgp

Neo Member
Aug 14, 2008
263
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Left is Network test --- Right is Retail

Thanks for the links, they look very similar, the biggest change is that the retail version is way brighter than the Network test.

Doesnt look as big of a change as the other areas.

Here's a good shot of the missing lighting effects between those two videos
Network Test:


Retail, missing shadows on the tree and bridge :

 

Raven77

Member
Jul 4, 2012
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So basically you're saying that developers can't change anything about the game during development? There were dragons when they filmed the trailer, but come release they had to cut it out and at that point there's no way to make a new trailer (which actually takes months, easily more time than it would have to make the decision to downgrade the game to make the release) and there's no real chance of losing a legal case for reasons those more educated in the matter can surely tell better.

They showed the better looking version in February, last month. They also have made no comment or effort whatsoever to make the general public aware of the visual downgrade.

It's unethical...at best.
 

Nags

Banned
Feb 16, 2013
3,949
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I'm not pretending to be concerned about the console version. The PS3 version in special runs not so great, how would they improve the graphics?

You're mistaking everyone who's posting here for the thread creators. I'm not fighting the good fight, trying to represent mislead consumers, I'm just curious.

You are the only one that will admit that.
 

Steel

Banned
Jun 20, 2013
19,664
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That is your opinion, it is very rare for someone to come in here and say that they even used the torches at all.

You seem to be an outlier.

For most areas they're useless(Which is to say, if you play the first 3 or so areas, you might not have any idea that torches are useful), if you don't use torches in certain areas, you're at a disadvantage. Not to mention that there are certain monsters that are scared off by torches that would otherwise swarm you and eat your ass.

He's not an outlier, he's just deeper in the game than a lot of the complainers.
 

EmCeeGramr

Member
Jun 25, 2005
38,456
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Jarate, FairXchange, mmmmaybe don't draw comparisons to the most infamously disappointing and reputation tarnishing examples of all time if you're trying to defend Dark Souls.
 

_machine

Member
Oct 12, 2011
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They showed the better looking version in February, last month. They also have made no comment or effort whatsoever to make the general public aware of the visual downgrade.

It's unethical...at best.
That it kinda is, but it's also the reality of it. A month isn't really enough time to make new marketing material and no developer is ever going to say that the game isn't going to be as good as they hoped or anything like that. Like it or not, there realities behind these decisions and sometimes (which is actually pretty common in the industry, FROM just had it really bad having to downgrade the game so little before the release and they'd demoed it extensively before).
 

Cheech

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Aug 14, 2007
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They showed the better looking version in February, last month. They also have made no comment or effort whatsoever to make the general public aware of the visual downgrade.

It's unethical...at best.

Did they specifically say what platform the game was running on?

It's really not uncommon to show off the PC version of a game and not mention that fact unless specifically asked. ALL publishers have done this.
 
Sep 11, 2007
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Here's a good shot of the missing lighting effects between those two videos
Network Test:


Retail, missing shadows on the tree and bridge :


Finally we can put to rest the complainst it was just done for mechanics:

The whole lighting engine is considerably downgraded even from versions that ran on consoles.

Lighting is way more flat on retail and way less dynamic.
 

Raven77

Member
Jul 4, 2012
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That it kinda is, but it's also the reality of it. A month isn't really enough time to make new marketing material and no developer is ever going to say that the game isn't going to be as good as they hoped or anything like that. Like it or not, there realities behind these decisions and sometimes (which is actually pretty common in the industry, FROM just had it really bad having to downgrade the game so little before the release and they'd demoed it extensively before).

I see what you're saying.

But I guess the point i'm trying to make is that just because something is common, doesn't mean it's right.

Consumers should stand up against this kind of thing. That means voting with your wallets and not supporting unethical and deceitful companies.
 

Alienous

Member
Jan 20, 2013
35,713
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You are the only one that will admit that.

I thought you had left ... ?

This isn't about having them 'fix' the console versions. That's unlikely, at this point. It about voicing disappointment, and doing our best to make sure this doesn't happen again for future titles by voicing our discontent. Dark Souls II PC being one of those future titles.
 

Jarate

Banned
Jul 18, 2009
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As in? It exists? And I didn't even buy that game because of how bad they gutted. That was highly publicized to be a bastardization of the original. Has Wright even done a game since?

Ocarina of Time was supposed to have footprints and such, but was downgraded (although a bit of a difference in these two)

Ask any game developer, like an actual game developer here if features get removed because they were bad, even ones that were advertised.

And once again, your point is completely invalid because the torches are INCREDIBLY HELPFUL AND PRETTY NECESSARY IN A CERTAIN PART OF THE GAME

you can ignore all of this of course, but the feature is still there.
 

RMI

Banned
Oct 1, 2012
6,298
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www.gaijindensetsu.com
If they can't show it, at least confirm via twitter or whatever. Honestly, even if they say "it's like the retail version, shut up" it'd be enough already. At least I'd know and we could get over it sooner. Not knowing sucks.

Haha, I understand what you're saying, 100%, but if they said this it would be a monumental shit storm.

I'd also like to know how it looks, but honestly it won't affect my purchase at all. I decided a while back that the PC was going to be the way to go on this one, just because of the performance issues on the previous game. If it looks exactly the same and just runs better (which is realistically the worst case scenario) I'll be totally content.
 

-MD-

Member
Jun 10, 2013
17,819
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770
United States
I'm done with this thread.
I know there is enough people that are not genuine in this concern for the console versions.

They are just using it as a way to beg for an upgrade on PC. Or get confirmation that what was shown in the bullshots will in fact be in the PC release.

To all of you with this ulterior motive, shame on you.

You can't be serious.
 

Stone Ocean

Member
May 27, 2013
31,205
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0
Look at my image that I quoted two posts above. Would you say that the torch is irrelevant there?
Irrelevant? No. Can I see perfectly fine without it and would rather have my shield out instead unless I crank down the game's brightness? Yes.

Show me one area where you can't go on without the torch.
 

EmCeeGramr

Member
Jun 25, 2005
38,456
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Did they specifically say what platform the game was running on?

It's really not uncommon to show off the PC version of a game and not mention that fact unless specifically asked. ALL publishers have done this.
I believe that PS3 kiosks with controllers and button prompts that were purported to be the PS3 version were shown at TGS last year looking very close to the reveal.
 
Sep 11, 2007
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Ocarina of Time was supposed to have footprints and such, but was downgraded (although a bit of a difference in these two)

Ask any game developer, like an actual game developer here if features get removed because they were bad, even ones that were advertised.

And once again, your point is completely invalid because the torches are INCREDIBLY HELPFUL AND PRETTY NECESSARY IN A CERTAIN PART OF THE GAME

you can ignore all of this of course, but the feature is still there.

Funny you mention OoT, because the retail game ended being much better looking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9S-kUj5vcc
 

Jarate

Banned
Jul 18, 2009
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Irrelevant? No. Can I see perfectly fine without it and would rather have my shield out instead unless I crank down the game's brightness? Yes.

Show me one area where you can't go on without the torch.

Dark Souls is really known for forcing the players into a very specific role. Also, since you have not played the game yet, that area is very much necessary to see things since there are pits everywhere. You could theoretically go through without a torch, but you could theoretically go through the dark caves in pokemon without flash.
 

Clawww

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Mar 11, 2013
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Look at my image that I quoted two posts above. Would you say that the torch is irrelevant there?

Yes, I would. Sure, it looks lit up, but visibility-wise there's hardly a difference. Maybe you could post some more shots to make a better case.
 

_machine

Member
Oct 12, 2011
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I see what you're saying.

But I guess the point i'm trying to make is that just because something is common, doesn't mean it's right.

Consumers should stand up against this kind of thing. That means voting with your wallets and not supporting unethical and deceitful companies.
I know and I absolutely agree, but the thing is that it also comes with game development and how you try to compete to stay afloat. As consumers we rarely see what goes on behind, but they are tough decisions forced by the market, by the budgets and extreme pressure and as long as other games are showing off well touched material and whatnot the pressure to match them is huge. These last minute changes are quite curveball and then things like these happen. It's always great to demand answers and more transparency, though.