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Dave Chappelle: Sticks and Stones | Out Now on Netflix

autoduelist

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Current day policies absolutely impact the community, and some of those policies are blatantly racist. Take the draconian crack punishments put in place vs. cocaine. Why the different standards for essentially the same drug?

I’m not saying the woes of the black community are 100% the result of the white man, and I don’t feel white guilt because I am not myself trying to perpetuate any of that, but to essentially handwave all that bullshit they’ve had to deal with is also not the answer. Chappelle isn’t wrong in pointing out that racism isn’t gone and continues. To infer from that all these other things about leftist policies is unnecessary. It’s just an acknowledgement that the playing field still isn’t level.
I would argue crack vs. coke differences is primarily class based. If you want a better comparison, look at meth vs. crack, since meth is a blight on poor white communities. You will see it is treated similarly to crack - white people do not get a race pass for their drug of choice.

It's also worth looking to history, and you'll see many of those pushing for harsh crackdown on crack were black politicians trying to deter black people from doing crack. It was an epidemic at the time.

And my comments on welfare were not 'unnecessary'. They are vital to understanding the problem black communities face today. The problem is not racist white people holding them down. Black communities were in far better shape 100 years ago than they are today, and welfare is the main contributor to the dissolution of the black family, which has led to drugs and crime. Racism isn't holding blacks down, their communities are, and that is a result of bad policy. But it's those who criticize welfare that get called racist, not those who keep it going.

Edited for clarity, pre-coffee lol
 
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Thaedolus

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I would argue crack vs. coke differences is primarily class based. If you want a better comparison, look at meth vs. crack, since meth is a blight on poor white communities. You will see it is treated similarly to crack - white people do not get a race pass for their drug of choice.

It's also worth looking to history, and you'll see many of those pushing for harsh crackdown on crack were black politicians trying to deter black people from doing crack. It was an epidemic at the time.

And my comments on welfare were not 'unnecessary'. They are vital to understanding the problem black communities face today. The problem is not racist white people holding them down. The problem is leftist white guilt and leftist policies like welfare that have ripped their communities apart. Black communities were in far better shape 100 years ago than they are today, and welfare is the main contributor to the dissolution of the black family, which has led to drugs and crime. If we are going to blame racism, lets blame the actual racists - those who think blacks can only succeed if we give them free money, those who think they won't be able to get an id to vote, etc.
Nobody actually thinks blacks can’t succeed if they aren’t given welfare or need to get an ID to vote. Again, it’s simply acknowledging that there are struggles they deal with which others don’t. Implicit biases exist. We can debate the efficacy of welfare or other policies design to help overcome some of these things, or how they can lead to unintended consequences, but you’re saying a lot of stuff that goes far beyond that. Is welfare detrimental to the community? Maybe, yes or no, but it’s not coming from a place of “black people can’t succeed without help,” it’s coming from a place of righting a wrong and knowing a rising tide lifts all boats. To think ”well actually welfare is racist because it assumes black people can’t succeed on their own...” is retarded. Nobody thinks that, people are just aware that they deal with hurdles that are both modern and historical in origin. Yes, black people can hit a home run, but statistically a lot of them start in the on deck circle and a larger percentage of whites start on second base. What to do about that is debatable, but someone like Chappelle pointing it out as a fact shouldn’t trigger fragile people here.
 
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finowns

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I was reading a ‘piece’ on Salon about this show and nearly every bit of it was nonsense but one part I reacted to the hardest made me say aloud in my best Dave Chappelle voice “Did this bitch just say Daniel Tosh wasn’t a good standup comedian?”
 

autoduelist

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Nobody actually thinks blacks can’t succeed if they aren’t given welfare or need to get an ID to vote. Again, it’s simply acknowledging that there are struggles they deal with which others don’t. Implicit biases exist. We can debate the efficacy of welfare or other policies design to help overcome some of these things, or how they can lead to unintended consequences, but you’re saying a lot of stuff that goes far beyond that. Is welfare detrimental to the community? Maybe, yes or no, but it’s not coming from a place of “black people can’t succeed without help,” it’s coming from a place of righting a wrong and knowing a rising tide lifts all boats. To think ”well actually welfare is racist because it assumes black people can’t succeed on their own...” is retarded. Nobody thinks that, people are just aware that they deal with hurdles that are both modern and historical in origin. Yes, black people can hit a home run, but statistically a lot of them start in the on deck circle and a larger percentage of whites start on second base. What to do about that is debatable, but someone like Chappelle pointing it out as a fact shouldn’t trigger fragile people here.
You will chase 'righting that wrong' forever and your efforts will forever backfire.

Of course it's coming from a place of 'righting a wrong'. Yes. But all the good intentions in the world don't make leftist policies in regards to black communities good for black communities. Black communities were fully capable of rebounding from slavery, just like the many other cultures who have been oppressed through history have. It is this need to 'help' them that has kept them hurting.
 
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Thaedolus

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You will chase 'righting that wrong' forever and your efforts will forever backfire.

Of course it's coming from a place of 'righting a wrong'. Yes. But all the good intentions in the world don't make leftist policies in regards to black communities good for black communities. Black communities were fully capable of rebounding from slavery, just like the many other cultures who have been oppressed through history have. It is this need to 'help' them that has kept them hurting.
All that’s fine and good but it’s not addressing anything I’m saying really. People are getting triggered because Chappelle isn’t shying away from the fact racism still exists in this country and is making jokes about it. You’re going off into why welfare is actually a problem and this and that. Ok.

Racism still exists in this country and it still holds people back, period. What to do about it? Debatable. But going into why none of what’s been tried works has nothing to do with the first point.
 

autoduelist

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All that’s fine and good but it’s not addressing anything I’m saying really. People are getting triggered because Chappelle isn’t shying away from the fact racism still exists in this country and is making jokes about it. You’re going off into why welfare is actually a problem and this and that. Ok.

Racism still exists in this country and it still holds people back, period. What to do about it? Debatable. But going into why none of what’s been tried works has nothing to do with the first point.
You vastly overestimate racism and use phrases like 'implicit bias' because you want to see racism in everything.

Implicit bias is a sham. If you think everything is racist, then sure, you can find racism in everything.

To quote myself from another thread:

When you view the world in terms of race, everything is racist.

One of my favorite examples was by Helen Pluckrose:

Note, in particular,

"The question is not "Did racism take place?" but rather "How did racism manifest in that situation?""

So, we start with the conclusion that racism must be present but difficult to see & then we look for it & then we find it.
Did it seem to you that that white cashier served the black customer quickly? She wanted him out of the way coz she's uncomfortable with blackness. Did it seem she took her time checking out his stuff? Evidence that she resents having to serve a black person & does so grudgingly.
Full context, and worth reading in its entirety:


Intersectionality is a cult. Triggers, implicit bias, safe spaces, microagressions, it's all crap nonsense in a cult of victimhood. Nobody is going out of their way to hold anybody down. Nobody cares that much. Success is not a zero sum game. If you want to help black communities, stop telling them racism is holding them down and gut the programs that are destroying their communities [and poor white and hispanic communities].
 

Thaedolus

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You vastly overestimate racism and use phrases like 'implicit bias' because you want to see racism in everything.

Implicit bias is a sham. If you think everything is racist, then sure, you can find racism in everything.

To quote myself from another thread:

When you view the world in terms of race, everything is racist.

One of my favorite examples was by Helen Pluckrose:





Full context, and worth reading in its entirety:


Intersectionality is a cult. Triggers, implicit bias, safe spaces, microagressions, it's all crap nonsense in a cult of victimhood. Nobody is going out of their way to hold anybody down. Nobody cares that much. Success is not a zero sum game. If you want to help black communities, stop telling them racism is holding them down and gut the programs that are destroying their communities [and poor white and hispanic communities].
You’re conflating too many things together my dude. Triggers are real, but way overblown. Implicit bias is real and verifiable. Even black cops show more hostility to black civilians than to whites. What do safe spaces and microaggressions have to do with any of this? You’re going into a ton of different areas and essentially putting words in my mouth or straw manning me here.

I”m not suggesting anything about intersectionality and tallying up a struggle score because of someone’s race, gender identity, sexuality, religion, etc. I’m simply stating that racism still exists and still negatively affects black people and Chappelle riffing on that shouldn’t rustle anyone’s jimmies. Would any white American pull a magic lever to make themselves black? I really doubt it. That’s about all you need to know on that subject. Does it mean anything else to simply acknowledge that one of the things I have going for me is my whiteness? No. You’re reading way too much into it.
 
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autoduelist

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You’re conflating too many things together my dude. Triggers are real, but way overblown. Implicit bias is real and verifiable. Even black cops show more hostility to black civilians than to whites. What do safe spaces and microaggressions have to do with any of this? You’re going into a ton of different areas and essentially putting words in my mouth or straw manning me here.

I”m not suggesting anything about intersectionality and tallying up a struggle score because of someone’s race, gender identity, sexuality, religion, etc. I’m simply stating that racism still exists and still negatively affects black people and Chappelle riffing on that shouldn’t rustle anyone’s jimmies. Would any white American pull a magic lever to make themselves black? I really doubt it. That’s about all you need to know on that subject. Does it mean anything else to simply acknowledge that one of the things I have going for me is my whiteness? No. You’re reading way too much into it.
I stopped reading at 'my dude'.
 
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oagboghi2

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You’re conflating too many things together my dude. Triggers are real, but way overblown. Implicit bias is real and verifiable. Even black cops show more hostility to black civilians than to whites. What do safe spaces and microaggressions have to do with any of this? You’re going into a ton of different areas and essentially putting words in my mouth or straw manning me here.

I”m not suggesting anything about intersectionality and tallying up a struggle score because of someone’s race, gender identity, sexuality, religion, etc. I’m simply stating that racism still exists and still negatively affects black people and Chappelle riffing on that shouldn’t rustle anyone’s jimmies. Would any white American pull a magic lever to make themselves black? I really doubt it. That’s about all you need to know on that subject. Does it mean anything else to simply acknowledge that one of the things I have going for me is my whiteness? No. You’re reading way too much into it.
Do you think black people wish they had a magic wand to turn them white?

Do you know any black people?
 

Thaedolus

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Do you think black people wish they had a magic wand to turn them white?

Do you know any black people?
No I don’t think that, and yes I do. I think the magic wand they’d want would be to eliminate that implicit bias/racism/bad history, not to eliminate their blackness, because there’s nothing wrong with that. My point was nobody wants to add to their own burdens or struggles, and the racism that exists in this country is still a burden and a struggle. That’s not some condemnation or judgment of being black, just an acknowledgement that being black can put up roadblocks. “Black sounding” names on resumes, for example, get tossed aside more frequently. This is all measurable, documented stuff that occurs even today.
I’m not here touting some solution like a genius that can fix every wrong in the world, I’m just saying people shouldn’t eye roll or hand wave this shit when Chappelle makes some jokes about it.
 

Musky_Cheese

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One thing that is fascinating is how so many of the "critics" claim Dave Chappelle is now out of touch with the today's audience.

Let's see here...




Well, someone is definitely out of touch... but it isn't Chappelle.
The lie being told is that only Alt Right White People like the special and Chappelle

But it’s only extreme left White People who don’t like the special and Chappelle
 

Thaedolus

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The lie being told is that only Alt Right White People like the special and Chappelle

But it’s only extreme left White People who don’t like the special and Chappelle
There’s definitely some fragile right leaning whites being triggered in this very thread too.

I consider myself center-left and find the reactions from both extremes to be hilarious. I enjoyed the show and watched it with my wife and sister, who both enjoyed it too. The people losing their shit over Chappelle suggesting there’s humor in body dysmorphia or that racism is a thing need to grow the hell up
 

#Phonepunk#

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critics live in a bubble. they live in the same bubble as the media.

this wouldn't really matter but they are convinced of their own superiority. they think they are arbiters of taste. they think they define the popular narrative. none of this is true in any way. it's all desperate projection to stave off their irrelevance. if your job is commenting on things other people created, there are literally millions of other people who could do that same job. plus you will get old and out of touch, your obsolescence is guaranteed. they know this deep down, so they have to lean into elitism.

it is funny. my Trump voting dad watched this and liked it and that would be considered a marked AGAINST Dave. because appealing to vast numbers of people is BAD, really you should only hope to make a selected group of 5-10 critics happy while ignoring the millions of others. gotta reinforce that bubble.
 
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EviLore

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I’m not crying about anything, just acknowledging things which demonstrably exist.
"Implicit bias" is meaningless and doesn't influence behavior:



The latest scientific research suggests there’s a very good reason why these well-meaning workshops have been so utterly ineffectual. A 2017 meta-analysis that looked at 494 previous studies (currently under peer review and not yet published in a journal) from several researchers, including Nosek, found that reducing implicit bias did not affect behavior. “Our findings suggest that changes in measured implicit bias are possible, but those changes do not necessarily translate into changes in explicit bias or behavior,” wrote the psychologists.


“I was pretty shocked that the meta-analysis found so little evidence of a change in behavior that corresponded with a change in implicit bias,” Patrick Forscher, psychology professor at the University of Arkansas and one of the co-authors of the meta-analysis, wrote in an email.

Forscher, who started graduate school believing that reducing implicit bias was a strong way of changing behavior and conducted research on how to do so, is now convinced that approach is misguided. “I currently believe that many (but not all) psychologists, in their desire to help solve social problems, have been way too overconfident in their interpretation of the evidence that they gather. I count myself in that number,” he wrote. “The impulse is understandable, but in the end it can do some harm by contributing to wasteful, and maybe even harmful policy.”
 
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Thaedolus

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"Implicit bias" is meaningless and doesn't influence behavior:


Interesting, especially because you posted a response directly addressing something I actually said. It does seem counter intuitive but now I want to look into it more, so thank you
 

Thaedolus

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And you know that because... ?

Oh, yeah, because you see racism in everything and you made up claims that confirm your bias.
Well it's actually based on article I read about the subject probably 5 years ago or so, but ok. Funny, I got told at the other place I couldn't experience racism as a white man when I tried to argue a pun wasn't racist. Here I'm told I see racism in everything. laaawl.
 

Jon Neu

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Well it's actually based on article I read about the subject probably 5 years ago or so, but ok. Funny, I got told at the other place I couldn't experience racism as a white man when I tried to argue a pun wasn't racist. Here I'm told I see racism in everything. laaawl.
You mean an article written by another person with the same ideology as you?

That proves it, then.
 

Thaedolus

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You mean an article written by another person with the same ideology as you?

That proves it, then.
Written by another person yes, same ideology...? I don't think of myself as an ideologue. You seem to think I am because of some limited things I've posted here, yet when someone like Evilore shows up with some receipts to refute something I was asserting, I was open to it and it changing my mind. When someone like you shows up and just wants to categorize me in a hyperboolic shitpost saying I see racism in everything, I don't have it. So quit with the bullshit reading into what I'm saying and actually talk about what I'm saying bud.

Racism exists; Chappelle made jokes about it. That doesn't mean it exists in everything, but it also doesn't mean people whining about Chappelle making jokes about it have a good reason to whine about it, and that doesn't mean acknowledging the continued existence of racism makes someone an ideological intersectionality purple haired SJW. There are gradients here, and you sound far more vulnerable and scared and triggered about it than my straight white male ass leaning back in my home office chair sipping coffee reading a video game forum right now.
 
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Jon Neu

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I don't think of myself as an ideologue.
What you think of yourself and what you really are, are two different things.

You seem to think I am because of some limited things I've posted here
I'm literally just asking you to back up your ridiculous claims with some real evidence. Some "article" written by someone who also happens to see racism in everywhere isn't proof of black policemen being more aggressive towards black people, that is literally just bullshit taken out of both your asses.

If you aren't capable of back up your claims, that is not my fault.
 

Thaedolus

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What you think of yourself and what you really are, are two different things.
True, but I don't think I've presented anything that would reasonably make me look like an ideologue. In this very thread I have shown I'm willing to reconsider something I put forward when someone presented a reason to do so.

I'm literally just asking you to back up your ridiculous claims with some real evidence. Some "article" written by someone who also happens to see racism in everywhere isn't proof of black policemen being more aggressive towards black people, that is literally just bullshit taken out of both your asses.
If you aren't capable of back up your claims, that is not my fault.
Well, here I have a conundrum: I've got a real life and a job and a family...baby's gonna wake up in 30 minutes or so, and her mother's already off to work. So I can spend that time trying to retrace a day which I think was about 5 years ago to find my sauce here, or I can just kinda shrug and say maybe later? I'm inclined to dig in and look up my sources, but also know I have to do things more useful. So I'll get back to you. In the meantime, maybe chill a bit on the blanket claims like I "see racism in everything." That's as retarded as ReEra telling me I can't experience racism as a white person.
 

KojimaLovesMiyazaki

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True, but I don't think I've presented anything that would reasonably make me look like an ideologue. In this very thread I have shown I'm willing to reconsider something I put forward when someone presented a reason to do so.



Well, here I have a conundrum: I've got a real life and a job and a family...baby's gonna wake up in 30 minutes or so, and her mother's already off to work. So I can spend that time trying to retrace a day which I think was about 5 years ago to find my sauce here, or I can just kinda shrug and say maybe later? I'm inclined to dig in and look up my sources, but also know I have to do things more useful. So I'll get back to you. In the meantime, maybe chill a bit on the blanket claims like I "see racism in everything." That's as retarded as ReEra telling me I can't experience racism as a white person.
It’s because you’ve been parroting ideological terms like implicit bias and whiteness. It’s like when you see a chick with blue danger hair and a nose ring, chances are she’s a feminist.
 

Thaedolus

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It’s because you’ve been parroting ideological terms like implicit bias and whiteness. It’s like when you see a chick with blue danger hair and a nose ring, chances are she’s a feminist.
Fair enough, maybe I didn't get how loaded those terms are? Implicit bias seems to actually exist. Intuitively, that would have an effect on how we react to one another. It seems to fall right in line with the tribalistic nature of humans, which would've been beneficial from an evolution standpoint...so in my mind, yeah, it makes total sense that you see someone different than you, or you see someone you've been sort of programmed to mistrust, and you have a different gut reaction and that turns into different behavior. On top of that, I did read from what I considered a reputable source about how this isn't even limited to whites vs. blacks, but even blacks vs. blacks in a law enforcement setting, but I need to go dig that up. On the other hand, Evilore came back with a meta-analysis I've yet to give proper attention to, but I've acknowledged the need to do so, given the summary of the conclusion.

As for stuff like "whiteness..." ...I guess I don't see that as a negative thing? I don't feel white guilt. I'm not ashamed of anything I was born with. I'm not ashamed of my ancestors or what they did because why would I be? I had nothing to do with any of it. And I'm not going to lay down and feel bad for it and let that negatively impact my life, because my happiness and that of those that depend on me shouldn't be tied to things outside our control.
 
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KojimaLovesMiyazaki

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Fair enough, maybe I didn't get how loaded those terms are? Implicit bias seems to actually exist. Intuitively, that would have an effect on how we react to one another. It seems to fall right in line with the tribalistic nature of humans, which would've been beneficial from an evolution standpoint...so in my mind, yeah, it makes total sense that you see someone different than you, or you see someone you've been sort of programmed to mistrust, and you have a different gut reaction and that turns into different behavior. On top of that, I did read from what I considered a reputable source about how this isn't even limited to whites vs. blacks, but even blacks vs. blacks in a law enforcement setting, but I need to go dig that up. On the other hand, Evilore came back with a meta-analysis I've yet to give proper attention to, but I've acknowledged the need to do so, given the summary of the conclusion.

As for stuff like "whiteness..." ...I guess I don't see that as a negative thing? I don't feel white guilt. I'm not ashamed of anything I was born with. I'm not ashamed of my ancestors or what they did because why would I be? I had nothing to do with any of it. And I'm not going to lay down and feel bad for it and let that negatively impact my life, because my happiness and that of those that depend on me shouldn't be tied to things outside our control.
But it’s inherently cynical and a little bit narcissistic to assume that people aren’t aware of such biases and need to be reprogrammed by you (or others who share your ideology). Both implicit bias and whiteness are terms borne from the intersectional ideology which is essentially a fourth wave of feminism combining and expanding all the craziest ideas of the preceding waves. It is a political movement that has its roots in academia and the terms are designed to undermine your ideological foundations. Specifically, they’re designed to foster guilt and, ultimately, self-loathing. This makes you easier to control — it makes you a political pawn. The terms are effective because they play on your intrinsic empathy that has been instilled in you by your Judeo-Christian Western upbringing (I don’t care if you identify as atheist — if you were raised in a Western country, your morals are rooted in Judeo-Christian values).

I’m not having a go at you personally here. You are one of many who have fallen for highly sophisticated political propaganda. But you seem open to questioning the world around you. Go and investigate the etymology of such terms. Look at the fields of academia they come from (hint: not real academia). Question the motives of the people inventing them and consider the incentives. They’re not legitimate.
 

Halo is Dead

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I was reading a ‘piece’ on Salon about this show and nearly every bit of it was nonsense but one part I reacted to the hardest made me say aloud in my best Dave Chappelle voice “Did this bitch just say Daniel Tosh wasn’t a good standup comedian?”
Danile Tosh is a hack
 

Thaedolus

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But it’s inherently cynical and a little bit narcissistic to assume that people aren’t aware of such biases and need to be reprogrammed by you (or others who share your ideology).
Well, I don't think that's what I was doing. The root of this conversation started with me thinking it was dumb to act like racism isn't really much of a thing and bitching about Chappelle's jokes. I didn't go full tilt into all that other stuff, though I do understand that by using loaded terms maybe that made it seem where I was coming from.

Both implicit bias and whiteness are terms borne from the intersectional ideology which is essentially a fourth wave of feminism combining and expanding all the craziest ideas of the preceding waves. It is a political movement that has its roots in academia and the terms are designed to undermine your ideological foundations. Specifically, they’re designed to foster guilt and, ultimately, self-loathing. This makes you easier to control — it makes you a political pawn. The terms are effective because they play on your intrinsic empathy that has been instilled in you by your Judeo-Christian Western upbringing (I don’t care if you identify as atheist — if you were raised in a Western country, your morals are rooted in Judeo-Christian values).
I find this analysis sorta flawed or incomplete. I agree with your critique of intersectionality, assigning struggle scores to people and valuing them differently based on inherent traits seems to be an absurd way of dealing with social injustice. That being said, social injustice has existed and still does., acknowledging that doesn't diminish me as a straight white dude and hasn't made me start giving my preferred pronouns (he/him btw... :p) when I introduce myself. Obviously there's a big difference between acknowledging racism and such is a thing, and not being offended by jokes about it, and catastrophizing every slight as some sort of microaggression or microrapes or whatever else bullshit people are getting off on being offended by lately.

As for the Judeo-Christian values: yes I do identify as an atheist, and I still acknowledge my heritage as a Christian and upbringing in those belief systems. However, I would say I took the vast majority of my self-loathing and guilt in life came from there as well. Shedding most of those beliefs I think has been beneficial to me overall. And again, I don't feel diminished or guilty as a person for being born white, straight and male, nor am I going to apologize for it or not, frankly, take advantage of it. I've learned through being an adult to not take other people's burdens on as my own, essentially. Yes, I can help others to a certain extent, but I'm not going to walk on eggshells continually or stay up at night thinking about what I'm not doing when goddammit just regular life is exhausting.

I’m not having a go at you personally here. You are one of many who have fallen for highly sophisticated political propaganda. But you seem open to questioning the world around you. Go and investigate the etymology of such terms. Look at the fields of academia they come from (hint: not real academia). Question the motives of the people inventing them and consider the incentives. They’re not legitimate.
Also fair, to be honest I wasn't really thinking about the epistemology and just using terms that seem to be commonly used without the greater context I guess. When I said "whiteness" I literally just meant the fact I'm white, for example. But, yeah, I can see the distinction between those two things.
 
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Nymphae

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Nahhh always felt his humor was the lowest of the common denominator
I still think it's hard to argue that he doesn't craft his standup material well and is a charismatic performer. I feel like what you said applies to someone like Jeff Dunham, which I really hate, but I can still admit he's good on stage.
 
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Halo is Dead

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I still think it's hard to argue that he doesn't craft his standup material well and is a charismatic performer. I feel like what you said applies to someone like Jeff Dunham, which I really hate, but I can still admit he's good on stage.
I will agree on the performer and charisma aspect sure. But his jokes are suuuuper cringy. Used to like him in high school but grew up from his sense of humor.
 
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crowbrow

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Fair enough, maybe I didn't get how loaded those terms are? Implicit bias seems to actually exist. Intuitively, that would have an effect on how we react to one another. It seems to fall right in line with the tribalistic nature of humans, which would've been beneficial from an evolution standpoint...so in my mind, yeah, it makes total sense that you see someone different than you, or you see someone you've been sort of programmed to mistrust, and you have a different gut reaction and that turns into different behavior. On top of that, I did read from what I considered a reputable source about how this isn't even limited to whites vs. blacks, but even blacks vs. blacks in a law enforcement setting, but I need to go dig that up. On the other hand, Evilore came back with a meta-analysis I've yet to give proper attention to, but I've acknowledged the need to do so, given the summary of the conclusion.

As for stuff like "whiteness..." ...I guess I don't see that as a negative thing? I don't feel white guilt. I'm not ashamed of anything I was born with. I'm not ashamed of my ancestors or what they did because why would I be? I had nothing to do with any of it. And I'm not going to lay down and feel bad for it and let that negatively impact my life, because my happiness and that of those that depend on me shouldn't be tied to things outside our control.
Sometime ago I was surprised to find out that all recent studies point towards police force not really having a racial bias when shooting or killing people. I still think the police force in the US many times uses excessive force but I don't think it is influenced by race so much as the media makes it seem.


Is there evidence of a Black–White disparity in death by police gunfire in the United States? This is commonly answered by comparing the odds of being fatally shot for Blacks and Whites, with odds benchmarked against each group’s population proportion. However, adjusting for population values has questionable assumptions given the context of deadly force decisions. We benchmark 2 years of fatal shooting data on 16 crime rate estimates. When adjusting for crime, we find no systematic evidence of anti-Black disparities in fatal shootings, fatal shootings of unarmed citizens, or fatal shootings involving misidentification of harmless objects. Multiverse analyses showed only one significant anti-Black disparity of 144 possible tests. Exposure to police given crime rate differences likely accounts for the higher per capita rate of fatal police shootings for Blacks, at least when analyzing all shootings. For unarmed shootings or misidentification shootings, data are too uncertain to be conclusive.
There's no enough evidence to make a conclusion on unarmed shootings though...
 
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Thaedolus

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Sometime ago I was surprised to find out that all recent studies point towards police force not really having a racial bias when shooting or killing people. I still think the police force in the US many times uses excessive force but I don't think it is influenced by race so much as the media makes it seem.


There's no enough evidence to make a conclusion on unarmed shootings though...
I think there are two separate issues: excessive force and racial disparity in that application of force.

Knowing and having LEOs in my family, I think the first one is pretty easily explained: cops in America aren't very well in deescalation and basically approach any situation with the understanding someone could have a gun on them. It's insanely stressful and shit happens.

The second one gets way more complicated when you factor in socioeconomic factors. Where I live now there's hardly any black people, but still unarmed people get killed by police...usually because they're poor, or on drugs or something. 40% of Americans not being able to afford an unexpected $400 expense would include a lot of white people too. But then you look at the average net worth of black households vs. white households, maybe it's something to do with a perception there too? I dunno. I just don't want to react to people overplaying the race card by downplaying it.
 

crowbrow

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I think there are two separate issues: excessive force and racial disparity in that application of force.

Knowing and having LEOs in my family, I think the first one is pretty easily explained: cops in America aren't very well in deescalation and basically approach any situation with the understanding someone could have a gun on them. It's insanely stressful and shit happens.

The second one gets way more complicated when you factor in socioeconomic factors. Where I live now there's hardly any black people, but still unarmed people get killed by police...usually because they're poor, or on drugs or something. 40% of Americans not being able to afford an unexpected $400 expense would include a lot of white people too. But then you look at the average net worth of black households vs. white households, maybe it's something to do with a perception there too? I dunno. I just don't want to react to people overplaying the race card by downplaying it.
It think it would be more productive to look into socio-economical factors related to crime/shootings than on race because, yes, I think those are much more predictive and relevant. If race is not a predicting variable then lawmakers, enforcers and pretty much everyone else are wasting time and resources focusing on wrong solutions while the actual solutions are not given the proper care while people are going to continue getting killed. For that I think looking at the data and analyzing it as objectively as possible is what should be done.
 
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Hackz

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This was my first experience with Dave Chappelle and I loved it, I ended up watching all of his Netflix specials afterwards.
 

finowns

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Danile Tosh is a hack
To be fair I've only really seen him from his show which was entertaining but I remember vaguely watching his standup and being impressed with his performance.

For example he does a joke on how white people putting black people into slavery is actually kind of impressive, now not many people could do the joke considering how offensive it is but he pulls it off. He has skills even if you don't think he is particularly funny.

 
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pennythots

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This was my first experience with Dave Chappelle and I loved it, I ended up watching all of his Netflix specials afterwards.
his netflix stuff while great is still some of the weakest stuff he's ever done.

go back and watch some of his older stuff, it's hard to top killing them softly. I'm sure you can find the whole thing on youtube
 
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KillCleanEat

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his netflix stuff while great is still some of the weakest stuff he's ever done.

go back and watch some of his older stuff, it's hard to top killing them softly. I'm sure you can find the whole thing on youtube
I told him "that's not how you get aids"
I didn't know if that shit was true or not, but I had to say something!


His old shit is classic, he made it sound like Kevin Hart is out performing him. Which I'll never understand, and I like K. Hart a lot.
 

Jon Neu

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True, but I don't think I've presented anything that would reasonably make me look like an ideologue.
You are literally parroting the same language, the same made up terms, the same articles and the same made up conclusions.

I've got a real life and a job and a family...
I'm sure you could find that article using google in less time than the one you are using to post in this thread. But if you don't want to, that's ok. I mean, I can live without reading another regressive article with made up stuff on it that is literally unprovable like "BLACK POLICE ARE MORE AGGRESSIVE TOWARDS BLACK PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE BLACK, THE SUFFERING NEVER ENDS".
 

Thaedolus

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You are literally parroting the same language, the same made up terms, the same articles and the same made up conclusions.
No, I'm not literally doing any of that, though I admitted already I've used loaded terms which seem to really trigger you given their context, and I get that can color what I'm saying.

I'm sure you could find that article using google in less time than the one you are using to post in this thread. But if you don't want to, that's ok. I mean, I can live without reading another regressive article with made up stuff on it that is literally unprovable like "BLACK POLICE ARE MORE AGGRESSIVE TOWARDS BLACK PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE BLACK, THE SUFFERING NEVER ENDS".
Well, I'm not trying to find a HuffPost article to prove anything...I've been trying to find the actual study I read, but again I'd place reading it in like ~2014 and I'm not sure exactly when the study was published, just when I read it. Sorry but I have done some searches and haven't found it, and I didn't take a bunch of notes when I casually read it in my spare time.

I don't think this study fits the time frame of the one I'm thinking of but it does show there are statistically significant differences in how LEOs interact with people of other races:


Interestingly, it suggests that

For white officers, the probability that a white suspect who is involved in officer-involved shooting has a weapon is 85.1% percent. The equivalent probability for blacks is 81%. A difference of 4%, which is not statistically significant. For black officers, the probability that a white suspect who is involved in an officer-involved shooting has a weapon is surprisingly lower, 62.5%. The equivalent probability for black suspects is 74%. The only statistically significant differences by race demonstrate that black officers are more likely to shoot unarmed whites, relative to white officers.
...black cops are more likely to shoot an unarmed white person than an unarmed black person, while white officers show no statistically significant variance. This seems to suggest there is a racial disparity, but is actually in favor of black people. But it's one retrospective study. A meta-analysis is much stronger evidence to consider.
 

Jon Neu

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No, I'm not literally doing any of that, though I admitted already I've used loaded terms which seem to really trigger you given their context, and I get that can color what I'm saying.
The only one triggered seems to be you because I said you talk like someone who is obsessed with seeing racism everywhere.

If you put the amount of thought necessary, you can frame everything as racism. It's actually really easy.

Still, you haven't proved any single one of your made up conjectures that you tried to pass as facts.
 

Thaedolus

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The only one triggered seems to be you because I said you talk like someone who is obsessed with seeing racism everywhere.

If you put the amount of thought necessary, you can frame everything as racism. It's actually really easy.

Still, you haven't proved any single one of your made up conjectures that you tried to pass as facts.
I don't know that conceding here and there on certain points, like law enforcement bias or that I chose poor terms to use, is really indicative of someone being triggered. I have some understanding of nuance and my limited knowledge, so I'm willing to move on things. That's a far cry from "seeing racism in everything." Like I said, I was arguing at the other place that a pun wasn't racist before I finally gave up on it and had them delete my account. But, I don't think the reaction to that is to do what a lot of people over here are doing, which is to take the polar opposite position, meaning completely denying there's any sort of social injustices in the world. Overblown? In certain circles, almost certainly. Non-existent? That's just as silly as seeing it in everything.
 
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Jon Neu

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completely denying there's any sort of social injustices in the world.
Literally nobody here denies that there are social injustices in the world. But a social injustice can be so many different things, yet you parrot the same rehashed theories of the radical left that are so narrow and specific.

Now, if you want to denounce a social injustice, you have to make your case in a convincing manner, with something at least resembling facts & proofs, something that actually gives weight and crediblity to your claims.

So far, you have not made any of that. Saying that there is racism in the world amounts to nothing.
 
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ViceUniverse

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[/QUOTE]
To be fair I've only really seen him from his show which was entertaining but I remember vaguely watching his standup and being impressed with his performance.

For example he does a joke on how white people putting black people into slavery is actually kind of impressive, now not many people could do the joke considering how offensive it is but he pulls it off. He has skills even if you don't think he is particularly funny.

This whole act as pretty funny.
 
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