David Cage is not the sole writer or director of Detroit: Become Human

Decker177

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David Cage has editors and other writers in his games. They could be way, WAY worse than they are. That's saying something because I've never seen writing worse than his in mainstream video games. But that's my opinion. Multiple and major plot holes are just not acceptable in a story, in my view.

I see no situation where this could work. It's just the way his mind works. I can't see anything good coming of him touching a piece of paper in anyway. Especially after the kick in the balls that was Heavy Rains ending. The whole damn game would have been horrible if they let him use his original script.

Maybe he will prove me wrong. Maybe it will be great and I won't be horribly offended with the time I wasted. But I love train wrecks and David Cage is always a TNT bundle on a bridge when it comes to plot trains.
 
Feb 13, 2013
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Still skeptical despite extra writers, can count on one hand the number of decent-ish Western dev/writers out there as is. Sounds weeaboo I know but imagine if they got someone like Shirow to help write this. Unless it's classic sci-fi authors it seems like almost all people trying to tackle existential cyborg themes end up coming off as the most on the surface observational angst...see Ex Machina for a recent example.

OT but OP your avatar is killin me, who is that? Reminds of an actress I saw as a kid but can't place them.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

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It's so awesome to see Dragonbane posting about the new game. Can't wait for more details on it. I'm glad Cage got other writers and directors, I'm almost sure that will help the game.
 

Machinehead

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Besides the trailer voice over we havent heard any dialogue from the game yet and reasonably it can be assumed it wont be present in the main game and was written by Cage rather recently just for this trailer.
That makes me have some hope for the game writing.
The speech from the voice over in the trailer was horrid, Cage style.
I still have fun playing QD games though =]
 

dragonbane

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The shower scenes? What about the forced rape scenes?
Not a single one was forced and being a bit clever made you avoid all of them in Beyond. Unless you mean forced from a thematic perspective.


OT but OP your avatar is killin me, who is that? Reminds of an actress I saw as a kid but can't place them.
She was an actress on Beyond: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5261554/ ;)


4 people involved in writing and directing, and none of them thought the title was horrible.
I'm fairly sure marketing has a hand in title selection.


What else have these writers worked on?
One guy has a literary background (Master in Creative Writing) and recently did some writing for the newest Hitman. The other comes from the movie world and mostly worked on his own stuff that seems to get fairly well reviews. Both of them are huge sci-fi and game geeks, so there is that.
 

Pyramid head

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What's up with people hating David Cage? I thoroughly enjoyed Heavy Rain, both its story and gameplay.
I haven't played Heavy Rain but Beyond is one of the worst 'interactive things' I've ever engaged with. It's somewhere in between being a shit video game and a worse movie. The plot is nothing more than a disjointed string of tropes thrown together in no particular order with a reveal at the end regarding Jodie's 'powers' which I think everyone probably guessed the moment the game was revealed.
The 'gameplay' is just the usual mix of QTE and making discisions which don't even affect or change the outcome of scenes half the time.
 

Lime

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In all fairness, Ethan gets shower scene in Heavy Rain, and you see butt.
One guy does not excuse the general trend towards female characters that QD seems to be doing. And we're not including the implied rape scenes or the reliance on being saved by male characters into the equation. QD may be straying from the hegemony of white dudes in video games, but their ability to write decent characters and treat them in a justified manner is unfortunately lacking.

People take showers? Cage is the kind of director that likes to show that his characters are "real people", and a shower or toilet scene is an easy, albeit shallow way to hit that note. Heavy Rain essentially starts with that, but with a male character.

It may be repetitive at this point but I think it has more to do with Cage being a bit of an amateur-level writer and less to do with being "creepy".

That's how I take it at least. I'm very glad to hear he is not doing all the writing duties because he has yet to really nail it after many attempts. The guy has awesome ideas but fumbles on the execution constantly.
I don't disagree with this, but it's just off-putting to have it across so many games now when they already suffer from shitty treatments of female characters.

I know I felt creeped out at the male shower scenes too.

>.>
Proportionality.

Only if Valorie Curry is up for it ;) At least they will likely remain optional now and not graphic, a trend which Beyond started. If its purely optional and doesnt give you any kind of reward I dont really mind a director including his weird trademark. After all he had plenty of male showering in his games as well and was fighting to have Ethan appear full frontal, but Sony intervened.
The fact that they modelled Ellen Page as a nude model without her consent was just very worrying. Couple this with the obsession with Ellen Page in that scrapbook and it's just sending off all the wrong signals.

Oh absolutely, especially after Ex Machina did it.

Well not shower I guess, just general nudity.
There's a particular way that Quantic Dream/David Cage treat their 'nudity' that makes it off-putting.

I guess you find quite a few movies creepy then?
Yes, I obviously don't like nudity in any form or another. It's not like there is different ways of employing nudity in a fictional work, right? (The point is that the way that QD employs nudity in regards to their female characters is awkward, if not off-putting, to me)

...and with the power of the ps4 backing it up.

One can only hope.
Good thing that you guys are honest. At least your statements show that the scenes perhaps work as intended - to tittilate.

Way ahead of you there with underwear at least:

ugh -_-
 

Syntsui

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Despite the other writers, I bet David Cage will still somehow manage to get a shower scene and a underwear scene for the female main character, like all his other previous games:
It's a trademark of his, just like torture scenes in MGS. There HAS to be this kind of scene.
 

Tuffty

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You know there is going to be a scene where a guy, or a few guys, try to sexually assault the protaganist only for her to use her android powers to kill them all. Creep sexual assault on female protaganists is as much of a trope for David Cage games as a shower scene.
 

Cleve

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Despite the other writers, I bet David Cage will still somehow manage to get a shower scene and a underwear scene for the female main character, like all his other previous games:
I am certainly for someone pushing boundaries in terns of nudity in games (America is still oddly puritanical while being super cool with violence) but the way Cage has handled it in the past definitely leaves a LOT to be desired for otherwise serious games.

-edit-

Regarding the underwear, that seems odd. Why give androids underwear in the first place. Are they replicants, do they sweat? Does it keep their robo-genetalia warm? Why are robots being shipped with genitals?

The underwear just seems like an oddly humanizing touch for something most people in that world apparently view as appliances.

Either way I'm excited for this game. Hopefully QD has learned from their mistakes in Beyond and also from what other companies are doing with stortelling in games.
 

Guri

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It's worth mentioning that both writers left at least two years before the game's release. That's plenty of time to change a lot of the story elements. Still, I'll wait for more information.
 

dragonbane

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One guy does not excuse the general trend towards female characters that QD seems to be doing.
There is no trend. There were 2 male shower scenes in Fahrenheit and 1 female. There was 1 male shower scene in Heavy Rain and 1 female. Beyond has 2 female shower scenes. He is almost even and Beyond was kinda limited by the fact it was just Jodie. If there was a male playable character he would have had a shower scene. It's just what they do. There is nothing to support the notion females are favoured.


The fact that they modelled Ellen Page as a nude model without her consent was just very worrying.
They model all their characters nude including male, to give them realistic body proportions through the clothing as well. For Page they used a generic stock body model that they use for multiple characters, it's not modelled based of her body. Sure they should have expected hackers trying to unlock it and make sure to put her into a swimsuit at all times, but game development is hectic and it was probably just missed. They did fix it in a patch quickly though.

Couple this with the obsession with Ellen Page in that scrapbook and it's just sending off all the wrong signals.
If anything I find it cute. He had his actress in mind and represented the scenes in his head by finding a picture where Page was roughly as old as Jodie during the writing phase. Nothing more. As usual you guys read way too much into it as Page herself found it cute. This probably happens quite often in the creative process for movies as well.


There's a particular way that Quantic Dream/David Cage treat their 'nudity' that makes it off-putting.
I guess its French. Nudity of any kind can't be off-putting there.
 

daveo42

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Definitely good news. Hopefully that means a solid story start to finish and better dialogue.
 

rockman zx

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The fact that they modelled Ellen Page as a nude model without her consent was just very worrying. Couple this with the obsession with Ellen Page in that scrapbook and it's just sending off all the wrong signals.


ugh -_-
As far as I know naked 3D models are normal when developing a game, and Page model lacked vagina or nipples, not sure why is that an issue.

About the extra writters, I can't care less, this is a Cage game, he is the boss, they will do whatever he wants, everything will need his seal of approval.
 

dragonbane

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You know there is going to be a scene where a guy, or a few guys, try to sexually assault the protaganist only for her to use her android powers to kill them all. Creep sexual assault on female protaganists is as much of a trope for David Cage games as a shower scene.
People constantly suggesting this is way more creepy at this point than whatever harmless Cage will do.


Regarding the underwear, that seems odd. Why give androids underwear in the first place. Are they replicants, do they sweat? Does it keep their robo-genetalia warm? Why are robots being shipped with genitals?

The underwear just seems like an oddly humanizing touch for something most people in that world apparently view as appliances.
The Kara model was also intended for romantic interactions. I mean its a no brainer they would build a robot like it (doesnt Japan already have some of those lol?)


It's worth mentioning that both writers left at least two years before the game's release. That's plenty of time to change a lot of the story elements. Still, I'll wait for more information.
Thats what always happens during the QD development cycle. The story is finished 2-3 years before release. It also doesnt change much at all, because of their approach to production they are locked onto the script once they start. They can't make drastical changes like some other devs can. If there is a mistake in there, they likely won't be able to fix it. Having more eyes seeing over it can only help.

So no, Cage wont be able to alter it in any way at this point. Everything you saw in the trailer already took years to create most likely anyway. Considering how one of the writers is proud of the game on twitter and they still visit QD from time to time as they have friends there, it's safe to assume its exactly the story they wrote.
 

Vlaphor

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Regarding the underwear, that seems odd. Why give androids underwear in the first place. Are they replicants, do they sweat? Does it keep their robo-genetalia warm? Why are robots being shipped with genitals?

The underwear just seems like an oddly humanizing touch for something most people in that world apparently view as appliances.
It's possible that the underwear won't be present in the game itself and was just added in to make the trailer SFW.
 

Guri

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Thats what always happens during the QD development cycle. The story is finished 2-3 years before release. It also doesnt change much at all, because of their approach to production they are locked onto the script once they start. They can't make drastical changes like some other devs can. If there is a mistake in there, they likely won't be able to fix it. Having more eyes seeing over it can only help.

So no, Cage wont be able to alter it in any way at this point. Everything you saw in the trailer already took years to create most likely anyway. Considering how one of the writers is proud of the game on twitter and they still visit QD from time to time as they have friends there, it's safe to assume its exactly the story they wrote.
I wouldn't be so sure that rule is going to remain. I'm not being pessimistic here or attacking Quantic Dream. I love story-driven games and I always give the benefit of doubt to devs before I see more or play their games. But I also know that game development is an ever-changing work. Budget and timing issues often happen and a game is never released as it was originally planned. Just look at Heavy Rain and its cut content. Not only a lot of it was already developed, but there was DLC planned for each character that was cut (and not developed) to make the PS Move DLC, except for one of them.

While I'm sure they left after they were done with the scripts, I don't think they were developed in-game (not all of them). So, let's say that, for some reason, they have to change something because it's not working in-game. Maybe it's a technical limitation or the scene didn't work well in practice. They have to rework it.

Again, I'm not attacking Quantic Dream or David Cage. I sincerely hope this will be a great story-driven game. However, game development is extremely hard and changes always happen.
 

andycapps

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One guy does not excuse the general trend towards female characters that QD seems to be doing. And we're not including the implied rape scenes or the reliance on being saved by male characters into the equation. QD may be straying from the hegemony of white dudes in video games, but their ability to write decent characters and treat them in a justified manner is unfortunately lacking.

I don't disagree with this, but it's just off-putting to have it across so many games now when they already suffer from shitty treatments of female characters.
There's a particular way that Quantic Dream/David Cage treat their 'nudity' that makes it off-putting.

Yes, I obviously don't like nudity in any form or another. It's not like there is different ways of employing nudity in a fictional work, right? (The point is that the way that QD employs nudity in regards to their female characters is awkward, if not off-putting, to me)
I didn't think the scenes were any more awkward than some movies I've seen. I was a little shocked at what I was seeing in Heavy Rain due to it being a video game and not something you typically see, but I thought it was interesting that they were willing to tackle something like that in a way that I didn't think was degrading. A little awkward when your SO comes in? Yeah, because it's likely not something your SO is used to seeing in a game either.

I thought the trailer looked pretty cool. Dialogue seemed a little better than Heavy Rain, I didn't play Beyond but that seemed to be an improvement, from what I saw. Doesn't look completely unique if we're including movies and shows in the equation, but in the space of video games it seems relatively unique in a world of sequels, shooters, and very safe stories.
 

nelsonroyale

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One guy does not excuse the general trend towards female characters that QD seems to be doing. And we're not including the implied rape scenes or the reliance on being saved by male characters into the equation. QD may be straying from the hegemony of white dudes in video games, but their ability to write decent characters and treat them in a justified manner is unfortunately lacking.



I don't disagree with this, but it's just off-putting to have it across so many games now when they already suffer from shitty treatments of female characters.



Proportionality.



The fact that they modelled Ellen Page as a nude model without her consent was just very worrying. Couple this with the obsession with Ellen Page in that scrapbook and it's just sending off all the wrong signals.



There's a particular way that Quantic Dream/David Cage treat their 'nudity' that makes it off-putting.



Yes, I obviously don't like nudity in any form or another. It's not like there is different ways of employing nudity in a fictional work, right? (The point is that the way that QD employs nudity in regards to their female characters is awkward, if not off-putting, to me)







Good thing that you guys are honest. At least your statements show that the scenes perhaps work as intended - to tittilate.



ugh -_-
Nudity or eroticism is more blatant in most Hollywood films. What do you think of the way say Game of Thrones treated nudity and sex by the way? Perverse camera placement is ubiquitous thing in films and TV these days. I don't find what is in QD games particularly crass...
 

dragonbane

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I wouldn't be so sure that rule is going to remain. I'm not being pessimistic here or attacking Quantic Dream. I love story-driven games and I always give the benefit of doubt to devs before I see more or play their games. But I also know that game development is an ever-changing work. Budget and timing issues often happen and a game is never released as it was originally planned. Just look at Heavy Rain and its cut content. Not only a lot of it was already developed, but there was DLC planned for each character that was cut (and not developed) to make the PS Move DLC, except for one of them.

While I'm sure they left after they were done with the scripts, I don't think they were developed in-game (not all of them). So, let's say that, for some reason, they have to change something because it's not working in-game. Maybe it's a technical limitation or the scene didn't work well in practice. They have to rework it.

Again, I'm not attacking Quantic Dream or David Cage. I sincerely hope this will be a great story-driven game. However, game development is extremely hard and changes always happen.
Of course game development is ever changing, but Cage himself said that when a scene doesnt work in the game, the only choice they have is to either cut it or make adjustments to it on the gameplay side until it works. Since they produce all scenes at the same time, there is really no other choice, cause big changes would bring the entire production to a screeching halt and impact all the other scenes progress. Considering this game seems to be perfectly on track development and time wise, I'm sure the only thing they might do is cut some scenes, not rewrite the story in a major way. HR and Beyond only suffered from that as well, there was no major plot point rewritten at any point.
 

Walpurgis

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Only if Valorie Curry is up for it ;) At least they will likely remain optional now and not graphic, a trend which Beyond started. If its purely optional and doesnt give you any kind of reward I dont really mind a director including his weird trademark. After all he had plenty of male showering in his games as well and was fighting to have Ethan appear full frontal, but Sony intervened.
Thank you, Sony.
 
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Only if Valorie Curry is up for it ;) At least they will likely remain optional now and not graphic, a trend which Beyond started. If its purely optional and doesnt give you any kind of reward I dont really mind a director including his weird trademark. After all he had plenty of male showering in his games as well and was fighting to have Ethan appear full frontal, but Sony intervened.
He's French: just loves a bit of artistic nudity!
 

Guri

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Of course game development is ever changing, but Cage himself said that when a scene doesnt work in the game, the only choice they have is to either cut it or make adjustments to it on the gameplay side until it works. Since they produce all scenes at the same time, there is really no other choice, cause big changes would bring the entire production to a screeching halt and impact all the other scenes progress. Considering this game seems to be perfectly on track development and time wise, I'm sure the only thing they might do is cut some scenes, not rewrite the story in a major way. HR and Beyond only suffered from that as well, there was no major plot point rewritten at any point.
Could you find that interview for me, by the way? I tried to and couldn't. I'm interested in learning their process. As a game developer and writer myself, it seems very chaotic, if I understood what you said correctly. It diminishes the importance of testing and feedback of the story before release. If the only choices they have are to either cut or make changes to gameplay, not small changes to dialogue or environmental storytelling, then that's something they could try and improve for their next game. At least that's my opinion.
 

Sojgat

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Thank fuck.

Perhaps the final game will actually live up to that trailer.

Really looking forward to this now.
 

llehuty

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Can these writers travel back in time and rewrite the last third of Indigo Prophecy/Farenheit script?
That game deserved better ;_;

Didn't they tease a medieval fantasy game with a wizard once? What became of that?
It was just a tech demo (Kara also was one, so who knows what would happen in the future).
 
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Can these writers travel back in time and rewrite the last third of Indigo Prophecy/Farenheit script?
That game deserved better ;_;



It was just a tech demo (Kara also was one, so who knows what would happen in the future).
I would prefer that one over anything else they have done or shown. It was wonderful.
 

Jobbs

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David Cage has editors and other writers in his games. They could be way, WAY worse than they are. That's saying something because I've never seen writing worse than his in mainstream video games. But that's my opinion. Multiple and major plot holes are just not acceptable in a story, in my view.

I see no situation where this could work. It's just the way his mind works. I can't see anything good coming of him touching a piece of paper in anyway. Especially after the kick in the balls that was Heavy Rains ending. The whole damn game would have been horrible if they let him use his original script.
Dayum.
 

Mr. RHC

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Despite my unconditional love for Heavy Rain, I feel like Beyond Two Souls had some weaknesses.
Can't hurt to have some people round up the edges.

Oh and I'm very much in favor of more shower scenes!
 

synce

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Despite the other writers, I bet David Cage will still somehow manage to get a shower scene and a underwear scene for the female main character, like all his other previous games:
Fanservice in games is not unique to David Cage
 
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I thought he threw them out.
Hm. Might have to check how up to date is this info.

Edit : Yeah this is old. Considering they didn't stay until full production started, I wouldn't get my hopes up. Tons of shit will be cut to meet deadlines and leave gaping plotholes as a result. Standart DC fare
 

Cleve

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The Kara model was also intended for romantic interactions. I mean its a no brainer they would build a robot like it (doesnt Japan already have some of those lol?)
Fair enough, I knew there would be a sex-robot line, I just didn't know the protagonist was part of it. If that's an angle the team is approaching the character from, content that makes players uncomfortable is probably be an important theme to explore. Sexual exploitation is a pretty layered and challenging issue and one I wouldn't want to tackle within the context of a video game.

I hope they can pull it off and manage to make it something more than we've seen so far.
 

Parshias7

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A bit unrelated, but how did David Cage become such a personality within video games? I mean he has only made like three or four games I think, and yet his name is as recognizable as Kojima or Miyamato in the video gaming community. With video games, you don't really know the "director" or the head honcho of a game sans the really big ones like Specter, Miyamoto etc. so how did Cage become so big, seeing as most people don't even like his games?

Its like when someone says "David Cage" around here you immediately know who he is, no google search needed. Heck, I have never even played a game by Quantic Dream but I know who cage is.
He's a controversial figure who makes games exclusive to one console. Either way he's gonna have a crowd of people to defend/shit on everything he does.

And this isn't a dig at Sony or anything, exclusivity to any console in particular brings way more attention than most things. Nobody really gave a shit about Indigo Prophecy.
 

wenis

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So it has a 15% chance of being decent. As soon as I learned it was a Quantic Dreams game, any hope of quality went out the window on every front.
 
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Funnily enough I never had much of problem with his writing. It's not any worse than your average video game writing and he has plenty of good ideas and knows how to keep the player interested, even though I do admit that Fahrenheit and Beyond kinda fall apart at some point.