Average videogames usually do more things than just telling a story.
David Cage games are basically only story and nothing else, thats why the quality of the writing is kinda tenthousand times more important.
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David Cage is not the sole writer or director of Detroit: Become Human
- Thread starter dragonbane
- Start date
Average videogames usually do more things than just telling a story.
David Cage games are basically only story and nothing else, thats why the quality of the writing is kinda tenthousand times more important.
dragonbane
Member
Its pretty likely they will pick it up down the line. Or at least explore comedy. Its just a tough sell right now.
The script for a QD game is fully finished during or sometimes even before pre-production and not altered in any way during full production unless to meet deadlines as you said. However that never affects the entire plot. They are very rigid in that respect. The writers left because their work was done. They stayed through most of the pre-production period after which the basic construct of the game is done. You really think he threw out everything when one of the writers tweeted how he was proud of his work after the trailer released? So its obvious that what the trailer touches upon is exactly what he wrote.
Apart from that the secondary director is still at QD and apparently he is equal to Cage on direction duties. Unless the game is majorly delayed which it, by all accounts, wont be, it's literally impossible for there to be massive changes to the entire plot.
Well it was part of the tech demo, so they included it here briefly for continuity. We dont know if they will actually have that as a theme.
Every front? Dang
Not being worse than the average videogame story isn't adequate if all you have to offer is story then you are seriously deficient.
Edit: Though I agree Cage is a great idea man but the execution is so lackluster.
May have to do with less than coherent plots, shoddy dialogue and poor game mechanics (QTE galore). My take is, his games are more for people not really into gaming, that are more easily impressed with graphics. His games are beautiful, no denying that, but fails pretty much anywhere else.
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
But he wrote the title, right?
Cyber Caesar
Member
You have to strike while the iron is hot. The next time his studio has a great idea, I wouldn't share it with the media until it's about 7 months from release. QD's strength is in the novelty of their ideals and ambition. Not many studios have the brass to take these risks. I like the fact that Cage likes to talk shit too.
Melchiah
Member
Have either of you actually played Heavy Rain? The choices you made, were one of the key elements in the game, that added tension due to the fear of losing one character or more. There were various outcomes, that opened new paths. The Taxidermist in particular was awesome in how many ways you could tackle the situation. I played it through three times, and it went differently each time. The story itself isn't the main point, but the journey from the beginning to the end.
Choices are inherent part of the story, they wouldnt be interesting at all if you dont have a proper context for them.
When im saying that his games are only about story then im including the choices as a part of the story.
I signed that.
I wish, David Cage wouldn't be involve in anything, what the studios does, and instead hire an actually good producer. He always comes across as not respecting the medium and its history, like he is the saviour of gaming by bringing his idea of "emotions" into it.
Semantic Continuum
Member
Well, we wouldn't be able to know if the second director is working on Detroit or something else. I also have some reaaal doubts about DC letting someone have as much power as him in his own house.
About the script, it's very possible to change it if production starts late. Nevermind the fact that dialogues are the most problematic thing in QD productions, which will be done by the man himself, no doubt about it. Unlike other creators DC keeps a tight leash on each and every scene : don't think any words the character spouts aren't his.
I don't know what basis you have to say the game isn't delayed when a release timeframe wasn't announced in the first place, but I wouldn't be too ambitious about 2016. Dev can take a long time to adapt to a new hardware, look at how many smashed their teeth on their engines/tools. A (relatively) small house will have the same problems. I don't expect a release window 'till late 2016.
Melchiah
Member
So, I take it you haven't played them? Watching a playthrough video on YouTube can't convey how it is when you're making the choices, instead of observing someone else doing them.
Which choices? Did you actually play it? All the consequences come from failing or not failing Quick-Time-Events. Unless you want to fail the QTEs by accidents, but failing is always presented as a negative outcome (Speaking of Heavy Rain. In Beyond Two Souls there are SOME choices, if i can remember them right.).
What? I've said that Cage's games dont have anything to offer outside of the story, and that i considered choices to be part of it.
Melchiah
Member
Many of the scenarios weren't either fail or succeed, but thresholds for different paths. When you chose a route, it lead to a different outcome than the others would have. The aforementioned Taxidermist for example gave you several options, and not all of them were strictly good or bad.
EDIT:
They're part of it, but like I said, if it was just about the story you would get the same experience from watching a playthrough video, and that isn't the case.
Cyber Caesar
Member
David Cage is an excellent trash talker. He is good at it.
“I don’t want to blame people for not wanting to play my video games, but they definitely are stupid for not demanding that developers make more games that are like mine,” remarked Cage, “I don’t want to dumb down my video games just to get more sales, I want to make them smarter. Smart people should not be avoiding my games, but for some reason, they do. I just don’t understand. Is there something about the video game medium that lowers our intelligence?”
“I don’t want to blame people for not wanting to play my video games, but they definitely are stupid for not demanding that developers make more games that are like mine,” remarked Cage, “I don’t want to dumb down my video games just to get more sales, I want to make them smarter. Smart people should not be avoiding my games, but for some reason, they do. I just don’t understand. Is there something about the video game medium that lowers our intelligence?”
David Cage's writing is awful.
But its awful in that 'Its fun to laugh watching someone playing this awful story kinda way'. Youtube fodder.
I'm beginning to think his stories are intentionally bad at this point. Sort of a meta commentary thing.
He has to know how bad they are and how everyone laughs at them. Right? Right?
But its awful in that 'Its fun to laugh watching someone playing this awful story kinda way'. Youtube fodder.
I'm beginning to think his stories are intentionally bad at this point. Sort of a meta commentary thing.
He has to know how bad they are and how everyone laughs at them. Right? Right?
Yeah, i remember some choices, but they didn't had much of an bigger outcome. Ethan could kill the father as part of the challenges (with no bigger consequences), Ethan could drink the poison (with no bigger consequences), Shelby could let the rich kid die (with no bigger consequences), Norman could not kill the crazy suspect (with no bigger consequences) and ... i can't remember more, but there is a clear pattern about those"choices" in Heavy Rain.
Everyone's got to shower at some point, would you rather they stink for the rest of the game?
Raitosaito
Member
This is like the Lucas and the Star Wars PT issue.
Except for cage hopefully his PT came first, and this is his OT
Except for cage hopefully his PT came first, and this is his OT
rockman zx
Member
Well, in the original Kara short, she says: "Im entirely at your disposal as a sexual partner.". I hope he explores that "function" of the robots, but in a classy way.
DeadManWalking
Member
Hey maybe this one wont suck!! Interesting
Melchiah
Member
I dunno what events exactly lead to the demise of the characters, as I managed to keep all but
Shelby
dragonbane
Member
I'm very much into gaming and love his games.
What if it were written decently, which you know, is the point of doing this?
He respects the medium a lot actually. Idk what history has to do with it. Let the man do his thing if people enjoy it. And he is a very good producer as the whole point of a producer is to make sure the game comes out on time and on budget. For the creative side he has help now
dragonbane
Member
The second director is working on Detroid. Can be seen directing motion capture sessions and is mentioned as a Director on Linkedin. Full Production started early 2015, so it didnt start late. This game will be early 2017 most likely, which is exactly expected if you look at their previous development cycles. DC is not writing all the dialog, he didnt for HR and Beyond either (some of the devs were involved in writing). So certainly he wont here, with the writers mentioning they created a big part of the script, which you know, contains the dialog.
Maybe he doesnt, considering a lot of people buy his games, make them financially profitable and dont do that. A huge chunk of people who buy their games dont even know who Cage is most likely.
All these Ethan choices matter as if you decide not to do them you cant get the letters. If you fail more than 2 of them you cant reach the warehouse with Ethan.
But why, though? Is it the game mechanics, the story, the graphics? What specifically do you love about them?
He said that in 2013 right? I think that what made some people hate his games even more.
This quote... Oh, wow.
Melchiah
Member
The question wasn't directed to me, but I give my two cents as well... it's all of the above, and the light drama & thrills they provide. I like to spice my gaming with variety, from Heavy Rain to God of War 3, from Journey to The Last of Us, from Resogun to Driveclub, and from Bloodborne to The Vanishing of Ethan Carter. Different kind of games keep me more interested and entertained, than a narrow selection of games with the same kind of mechanics would. It's also fun to play an entirely different kind of games back to back.
hobblygobbly
Member
I enjoyed Omikron and Fahrenheit, disliked Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls was eh ¯\_(ツ
_/¯ - I enjoyed a few areas of the plot and Page and Dafoe's acting but it was inconsistent (the plot that is) and didn't enjoy it as much as Omikron and Fahrenheit. I'd say I like 2 out of 4 Quantic Dream games so far.
_/¯ - I enjoyed a few areas of the plot and Page and Dafoe's acting but it was inconsistent (the plot that is) and didn't enjoy it as much as Omikron and Fahrenheit. I'd say I like 2 out of 4 Quantic Dream games so far.dragonbane
Member
Its from a joke article. People think he actually said that? Hahaha, he may say some dumb stuff occasionally, but he wouldnt try to alienate the entire customer base like that.
Its pretty hard to explain why we find some things entertaining. I find his games entertaining. The graphics are nice and it made me appreciate Beyond more, but Heavy Rain wasnt an insane looker and I still loved that, so cant be the graphics alone. Gameplay mechanics I found to be pretty inspired and novel in Heavy Rain with the floating thoughts and well directed fight scenes where how you did in the QTEs felt very consequential. Beyond dialed back on that and I did like it less as a result. Story is a mixed bag certainly, as a European who is unable to notice issues with the portrayal of America (French accents cant bother me) I find them pretty serviceable however. Nothing amazing, but I enjoy many movies too that have less than stellar stories. I guess the biggest draw for me is that it makes you feel part of a world that isnt just about killing countless dudes. I can dwell in the atmosphere his games create pretty successfully and they provide me with different settings and action scenes then you typical see in games. Its cool to explore the insanely detailed sets and overall I just "enjoy the ride". Having characters lives at stake also feels pretty different and intense for me by default. It immediately creates tension for me from a gameplay perspective and I feel responsible to keep them alive as best I can.
That being said, I still love many traditional gaming genres.
Seems super believable to me.
Osu 16 Bit
Member
I'm still baffled a professional writer who makes games that are story driven did not understand the concept of a macguffin and thought the nonsensical red herrings in Heavy Rain were okay.
UnluckyKate
Member
do we have any idea about the art director(s) because so many things ring like Remember Me and because they are both Paris based studio, maybe either Briclot or Koch (I think Koch is still working at Dontnod)
That seems rather arbitrary. Both Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls sold well (IIRC, Beyond passed 1 million last year.) There is clearly a market for these games, and it's not just "people not really into gaming." Just because you like Heavy Rain and Beyond doesn't mean you are any less of a gamer than those who don't, or don't enjoy other more-gameplay oriented games.
I stand corrected. I just looked the original article up. To see people making up quotes about him says a lot about how many are willing to see him fail is so weird. I do not agree with how he uses some tropes and some are also extremely offensive, but still...
Also, have you found the interview about the way they work? I still can't find it.
I showed my friend the trailer for the movie when David Cage's name popped up his response was "DAVID. FUCKING. CAGE."
I don't think David Cage is terrible, but he has a lot of weak areas in his writing and most of it is because he lacks real life experiences to help improve his writing.
But people don't play, say, Far Cry to be blown away by a good story. They play it because the appeal is in the sandbox gameplay and FPS gameplay.
For every David Cage game the appeal was "this is a game with cutscenes and limited interactivity but it's all about the story and cutting edge virtual actors"
If the writing is shit it's that much worse than in your "average video game writing" because the game's success depends almost solely on it. It's worse than if the writing is bad in a Bioware game or CDPR game because it can't be saved by also being an RPG or any other genre for that matter. It's not like it has any puzzles either really, so it's not like puzzle-and-click either.
dragonbane
Member
They are friends with Dontnod and some of the artists and other devs switch between the two studios rather frequently. But the Art Director is Christophe Brusseaux, who is in fact their Art Director since 14 years now (goddamn thats a long time). Benoit Godde heads the concept artist department. However they have a lot of new environment artists, key lighters, icing and VFX talent on board, some of which came from Dontnod.
Could only find this again, which talks about how they produce their games: http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1013716/A-Challenging-Production-Heavy
Unfortunately the Cage blog where he went into detail how the scenes are produced and how hard it is to change stuff late in the game was apparently deleted or got lost when QD re-designed their website.
Play Beyond, it's a mess of something that was an attempt to be some sort of magnum opus piece, dog ate the script half way through, etc.
This is good though. Like the concept of Detroit, hopefully they keep it simpler.
I played the fuck out of Heavy Rain the writing ranged between subpar and atrocious. And the issue with that is the writing makes the journey what it is. Suggesting I didn't play the game because I disagree with you on its quality is a tad much.
OrlanisWorks
Banned
So he DID possibly learn something. The trailer's end said otherwise.
If the writing is good this time around, it could be quite the game changer for DC. Too bad it would mean the game might not be hilarious like Heavy Rain or BTS.
If the writing is good this time around, it could be quite the game changer for DC. Too bad it would mean the game might not be hilarious like Heavy Rain or BTS.
It seems that our taste is different, as I found the action mechanics lacking, but you seem to like it. The french accents bothered me, but didn't bother you. Fair enough. One thing you brought up that I did like, was the thought bubbles when doing dialogues. So while I do like some things about the games, as a whole, it doesn't quite gel all together. But that's me.
Manny Calavera
Member
Well you all have some good points and you're not wrong at all. Personally I'm able to forgive many faults and rough spots with the story and writing if I'm really into the game and the characters. With Heavy Rain I was more involved than almost any game I've played and that's why it's among my most memorable and best game experiences. The game kept me guessing and intrigued and I was fully immersed with the world. I even enjoyed the different and at the time original game mechanics.
Manny Calavera
Member
That seems a bit random theory even though probably true at some cases. Personally I'm very much into gaming and play and enjoy almost all kind of games. Of course I did grew up in the 90's playing the old adventure games so Heavy Rain and similar style of games are very much my cup of tea.