David Jaffe and Sony Designer discuss Halo TV-ad, MOH and respect for veterans

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Aug 6, 2004
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RumpledForeskin said:
I just took it for what it is but I have to admit after seeing all that melodrama, "BELIEVE" at the end made it seem out of place. They should have came up with something else besides "BELIEVE". They should have stuck with "finish the fight" but I guess that didn't want it to maybe get political.
Yeah the BELIEVE at the end was almost a non-sequitur for me. I don't really get what they're trying so say there. Believe that Master Chief can save the human race perhaps?
 
Oct 22, 2006
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Tiktaalik said:
Yeah the BELIEVE at the end was almost a non-sequitur for me. I don't really get what they're trying so say there. Believe that Master Chief can save the human race perhaps?
Yeah, I'm beginning to wonder whether or not the whole Believe tagline thing is just Luke having fun. :lol
 
Sep 6, 2006
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Campster said:
The Halo commercial is the most pretentious self-indulgent thing I've seen a company produce since the PS3/Lance Henriksen Play B3yond ads. Playing a character as two dimensional and lifeless as Master Chief up as a hero for the ages is just self-wankery. Halo is not a celebration of human will and triumph over the archetypal "other," it's an excuse for Fratboys to get on XBox Live Arcade and fight over who is more lame for not picking up the Blue Team's flag.
I'm sorry, I didn't know to be a hero you must be an overly developed three dimensional character with angst, pathos and perhaps a passion for scrapbooking. And isn't the story of Halo that Master Chief is our last hope? He's a super solider, he's badass and he's fighting for Earth. Sounds like a textbook example of hero to me. I think the commercial was nice and It certainly makes sense in terms of how the Chief is viewed in the games. Didn't you hear any dialog from marines when the Chief showed up in Halo 2? "THANK GOD YOU'RE HERE!"

You guys are acting like creative commercials for games is a disgrace and a crime to God and Man.
 
Nov 9, 2004
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Tiktaalik said:
?????

You said

What I'm getting at is that, most people have not really experienced at least three wars, at least, not outside a living room, watching their TV set.
I was trying (unsuccessfully) to say that while people have experienced numerous wars, most people have not been largely impacted by them. There's a big difference, as you stated above.

I still don't understand why fictional wars would be disrespectful. Do you find Saving Private Ryan disrespectful? It is fictional.
 
Dec 25, 2004
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lollerskates said:
hay where are all them guys who whine about too many halo threads in every halo thread. i havent seen em in here its weird.
They show mostly in Halo circle-jerk threads. This one is sort of Halo-bashing, so their sitting back and stroking themselves to every negative comment towards the game.
 
Jul 20, 2006
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traveler said:
I'm not comparing the two in terms of quality; I'm simply saying that surely you, as a rabid fan of one game's story, can understand that it is possible for tons of fans to be just as invested in another? And I wouldn't expect you to be interested in Halo's story or characters- you haven't played the game after all.
Way to assume over there, big guy ! :)

I imagine that being emotionally invested in a story based on its quality is a bad thing? I'm just surprised at the emphasis on Halo's story, which to me personally, wasn't much to ponder over. Hence the laughter directed at the trailer in question.

dammitmattt said:
I'm a fan of the Master Chief, but it's not like Halo tries to really develop most of the characters outside of Master Chief, Cortana, and The Arbiter. Unlike MGS, it's an action game first and foremost, and the "story" portions take up a ridiculously small amount of the single-player campaigns, especially in the first game.

The thing about Halo that gives me goosebumps is the music, which is more iconic than any video game soundtrack in decades. That's where the emotion comes from, not the characters.
Yep, the music is very good in Halo, music is a really amazing tool in games and I love the original Halo theme.

Pope Benedict XVI said:
altogetherandrews and ktallguy not liking something ms/halo related?? Whatever will happen next is this unpredictable rollercoaster of a thread.
I'm so happy you're voicing your opinion. I thought the ad was laughable too!
 
Apr 6, 2007
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hey everyone...adam orth here.

a couple of things:

i was surprised at how dave presented our conversation on his blog today. yes, i agreed to it, but i didn't realize he was going to present it as "look what he said" and include a photoshopped image. i simply thought it was going to be an interesting look at one of the many discussions we have daily about games and design etc. i've spoken with dave about this and we're on the same page with me being unhappy about it, but that's life. dave is a public guy and i'm not. i didn't fully understand the ramifications of what him posting our innocent conversation would have. lesson learned.

i stand by my opinion of the commercial. i felt it was disrespectful and i don't need to justify that to OR for anyone. it's just an opinion. i don't really understand why it matters to anyone, but if it does, that's your prerogative. enjoy!

i'm not a fan of the halo series either. it's just not my thing. if it's your thing? great. enjoy!

i'm proud of the work i've done on all the games i've made and am making. some were great, some were not. i think alot of people who post here don't actually make games and those are the people who think that 1 or 2 people are responsible for the outcome of the final product. obviously that isn't true. so to pinpoint me for not making "great games" like halo and not being allowed to have an opinion about games until i make the next halo doesn't make much sense. if you want to believe that? enjoy!

to the people who don't like medal of honor. great. don't play it. i used to make those games and i loved doing it. are they the best games ever? no, but it was a great, great experience that millions of people around the world loved and continue to love. i don't work there anymore, but i support my friends efforts and always look forward to their next effort.

i work for sony. i regret getting involved in this situation with david and i'd hate to have our IM conversation reflect badly on sony as a company. that's the thing that bothers me the most, because it has nothing to do with them. i made a mistake and even though i stand by my opinions 100%, i'm a little embarrassed about this.

at the end of the day, we're talking about VIDEO GAMES. everyone needs to remember that. we aren't changing the world....it's just entertainment and today i learned a lesson about that that i wont forget. in the big picture, none of this is really that important.

finally, i'm totally open to having halo 3 blow me away.

thanks for listening and if anyone wishes to contact me further, you may do so at sweetbilly_@hotmail.com.

- adam.
 
Aug 6, 2004
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dammitmattt said:
I was trying (unsuccessfully) to say that while people have experienced numerous wars, most people have not been largely impacted by them. There's a big difference, as you stated above.
Alright we're clearly arguing two different things. Hell I've "experienced" lots of different wars, but considering that they've been fought off the continent and fought by people I had no connection to, they have not really impacted me in a deep way. This is what I'm arguing. This generation has not been really impacted by war in a deep way. One could argue that if this ad does trivialize real war, it's because the makers of the ad, and the audience of the ad, haven't actually experienced war.

dammitmattt said:
I still don't understand why fictional wars would be disrespectful. Do you find Saving Private Ryan disrespectful? It is fictional.
Saving Private Ryan is a psudo-fictional story based on real events in a real war. It's not a fake war at all because it's based on a book which is based on a real event that happened. Even if it wasn't somewhat based on a real event, it still took place during a real war. I brought up Starship Troopers before because honestly that's the only major story I could think of that took place during a 100% fake war. Most movies we see are based on WW2, which was a very real event.
 
Oct 22, 2006
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KTallguy said:
Way to assume over there, big guy ! :)

I imagine that being emotionally invested in a story based on its quality is a bad thing? I'm just surprised at the emphasis on Halo's story, which to me personally, wasn't much to ponder over. Hence the laughter directed at the trailer in question.



Yep, the music is very good in Halo, music is a really amazing tool in games and I love the original Halo theme.
Err... I wasn't assuming. You said you don't play the Halo games earlier in the thread. And, yes, obviously one's emotional investment in a game depends on the story's quality. Problem is, the story's quality is also subjective. Some find Kojima's stories (although I think they're more turned off by the brand of storytelling) atrocious; we, on the other hand, love them. Same goes for Halo. All this amounts to is this- there are stories in games that have dedicated fans. It shouldn't come as a shock to you that Halo has such fans.
 
Oct 22, 2006
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sweet billy said:
hey everyone...adam orth here.

a couple of things:

i was surprised at how dave presented our conversation on his blog today. yes, i agreed to it, but i didn't realize he was going to present it as "look what he said" and include a photoshopped image. i simply thought it was going to be an interesting look at one of the many discussions we have daily about games and design etc. i've spoken with dave about this and we're on the same page with me being unhappy about it, but that's life. dave is a public guy and i'm not. i didn't fully understand the ramifications of what him posting our innocent conversation would have. lesson learned.

i stand by my opinion of the commercial. i felt it was disrespectful and i don't need to justify that to OR for anyone. it's just an opinion. i don't really understand why it matters to anyone, but if it does, that's your prerogative. enjoy!

i'm not a fan of the halo series either. it's just not my thing. if it's your thing? great. enjoy!

i'm proud of the work i've done on all the games i've made and am making. some were great, some were not. i think alot of people who post here don't actually make games and those are the people who think that 1 or 2 people are responsible for the outcome of the final product. obviously that isn't true. so to pinpoint me for not making "great games" like halo and not being allowed to have an opinion about games until i make the next halo doesn't make much sense. if you want to believe that? enjoy!

to the people who don't like medal of honor. great. don't play it. i used to make those games and i loved doing it. are they the best games ever? no, but it was a great, great experience that millions of people around the world loved and continue to love. i don't work there anymore, but i support my friends efforts and always look forward to their next effort.

i work for sony. i regret getting involved in this situation with david and i'd hate to have our IM conversation reflect badly on sony as a company. that's the thing that bothers me the most, because it has nothing to do with them. i made a mistake and even though i stand by my opinions 100%, i'm a little embarrassed about this.

at the end of the day, we're talking about VIDEO GAMES. everyone needs to remember that. we aren't changing the world....it's just entertainment and today i learned a lesson about that that i wont forget. in the big picture, none of this is really that important.

finally, i'm totally open to having halo 3 blow me away.

thanks for listening and if anyone wishes to contact me further, you may do so at sweetbilly_@hotmail.com.
- adam.
BAD IDEA!!! Bail out now!!!!!!!!

(Thanks for the response, btw.)
 
Dec 30, 2004
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watership said:
I'm sorry, I didn't know to be a hero you must be an overly developed three dimensional character with angst, pathos and perhaps a passion for scrapbooking. And isn't the story of Halo that Master Chief is our last hope? He's a super solider, he's badass and he's fighting for Earth. Sounds like a textbook example of hero to me. I think the commercial was nice and It certainly makes sense in terms of how the Chief is viewed in the games. Didn't you hear any dialog from marines when the Chief showed up in Halo 2? "THANK GOD YOU'RE HERE!"

You guys are acting like creative commercials for games is a disgrace and a crime to God and Man.

Kinda' funny ain't it? Of course, NeoGAF is home to many disheveled game hipsters who hide behind a ruse of high-minded game critique to beat down teh enemy's games.
 

Campster

Do you like my tight white sweater? STOP STARING
Dec 8, 2005
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www.errantsignal.com
sweet billy said:
...

at the end of the day, we're talking about VIDEO GAMES. everyone needs to remember that. we aren't changing the world....it's just entertainment and today i learned a lesson about that that i wont forget. in the big picture, none of this is really that important.

...
This is such a depressing way to look at the medium, especially coming from someone working within it.
 
May 3, 2006
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I still dont see whats so disrispectfull about it. I thought it was pretty fantastic actually. Though for a museum in the future it doesnt really look futuristic. Still good though
 
Dec 30, 2004
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sweet billy said:
hey everyone...adam orth here.

a couple of things:

i was surprised at how dave presented our conversation on his blog today. yes, i agreed to it, but i didn't realize he was going to present it as "look what he said" and include a photoshopped image. i simply thought it was going to be an interesting look at one of the many discussions we have daily about games and design etc. i've spoken with dave about this and we're on the same page with me being unhappy about it, but that's life. dave is a public guy and i'm not. i didn't fully understand the ramifications of what him posting our innocent conversation would have. lesson learned.

i stand by my opinion of the commercial. i felt it was disrespectful and i don't need to justify that to OR for anyone. it's just an opinion. i don't really understand why it matters to anyone, but if it does, that's your prerogative. enjoy!

i'm not a fan of the halo series either. it's just not my thing. if it's your thing? great. enjoy!

i'm proud of the work i've done on all the games i've made and am making. some were great, some were not. i think alot of people who post here don't actually make games and those are the people who think that 1 or 2 people are responsible for the outcome of the final product. obviously that isn't true. so to pinpoint me for not making "great games" like halo and not being allowed to have an opinion about games until i make the next halo doesn't make much sense. if you want to believe that? enjoy!

to the people who don't like medal of honor. great. don't play it. i used to make those games and i loved doing it. are they the best games ever? no, but it was a great, great experience that millions of people around the world loved and continue to love. i don't work there anymore, but i support my friends efforts and always look forward to their next effort.

i work for sony. i regret getting involved in this situation with david and i'd hate to have our IM conversation reflect badly on sony as a company. that's the thing that bothers me the most, because it has nothing to do with them. i made a mistake and even though i stand by my opinions 100%, i'm a little embarrassed about this.

at the end of the day, we're talking about VIDEO GAMES. everyone needs to remember that. we aren't changing the world....it's just entertainment and today i learned a lesson about that that i wont forget. in the big picture, none of this is really that important.

finally, i'm totally open to having halo 3 blow me away.

thanks for listening and if anyone wishes to contact me further, you may do so at sweetbilly_@hotmail.com.

- adam.

Discretion, sweet william. Discretion.
 
Jan 12, 2007
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blog.dfyb.net
Campster said:
This is such a depressing way to look at the medium, especially coming from someone working within it.
maybe if you take it out of the context of the rest of his post. are you going to make a digg story titled "sony designer thinks videogames are silly and unimportant!"?

you guys are taking this conversation way too seriously. think about scale for a second. i think videogames are an amazing medium that is just starting (edit: by this i mean it is not fully realized yet and has a ton of room to grow), but that doesn't mean every insignificant conversation people in the industry have needs to be argued about on the internet. they can't have casual conversations without being picked apart? that's sad.
 
Dec 17, 2004
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What does Jaffe's opinion matter anyhow?

The one that matters the most is your own.

Not that I'm some huge lover of Halo either. I enjoyed the first game but never finished the second. Got bored.
 
Feb 24, 2005
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the psych ward
www.twitch.tv
Bah what does Jaffe know?

Just kidding. Dave is awesome and I love his games.

At the same time I love the Halo series and Bungie's games. Like He said he likes Halo but isn't hardcore like some of us. I have no problem with this. Not everyone will love every game. Who am I to tell him that he has to be a card carrying Halo loving nut like me?

Now on to the actual ad. I loved it. When watching it I never thought about current or past wars. Hell The giant Xbox 360 logo at the end kinda says hey this is a game. Now had they not had the 360 logo and not made it obvious it was for a game, I might have had a problem with it. However they did have all of that so I have no problems with the ad and enjoyed it.
 
Oct 22, 2006
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dfyb said:
maybe if you take it out of the context of the rest of his post. are you going to make a digg story titled "sony designer thinks videogames are silly and unimportant!"?

you guys are taking this conversation way too seriously. think about scale for a second. i think videogames are an amazing medium that is just starting, but that doesn't mean every insignificant conversation people have needs to be argued about on the internet.
Speaking personally, whenever I get "riled up" about something video game related, it seldom has anything to do with the fact that it is a gaming related topic and is more due to principles or behaviors that I see in action.
 
Aug 10, 2007
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sweet billy said:
i stand by my opinion of the commercial. i felt it was disrespectful and i don't need to justify that to OR for anyone. it's just an opinion. i don't really understand why it matters to anyone, but if it does, that's your prerogative. enjoy!
Your opinion has been outed - though it seems not quite in the manner you intended - but you still haven't really explained how or why the advert is in any way showing a lack of respect for veteran soldiers. Which yes, considering the games you've worked on is a bit rich. As much as I've enjoyed some of the Medal of Honour games - loving the demo for the latest - they've really set the bar for exploiting old soldiers.

To be honest I think a lot of us just really can't grasp where you're getting the vibe of disrespect from...
 

X26

Banned
Mar 12, 2006
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Personally I don't get the foaming at the mouth over Halo's plot and MC himself (he has no personality yet 'certain people' praise him to be the greatest video game character ever. Gameplay? That's where Halo more than deserves its praise, but the plot...ugh
 
Dec 17, 2004
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traveler said:
Jaffe asked him for permission, but I don't think Adam knew exactly how the conversation was going to be represented.
In that case, I would have told him to fuck off if it were me. I would have never agreed to it.

Greg said:
Did you even read the posted link?
Uh, no. I have had little time for any shit like this over the past week. I've got a huge job in Norway with IBM and a large oil company. The kids here can spill the beans easily with all the free time they've got going on.
 
Mar 9, 2007
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Sir Fragula said:
Your opinion has been outed - though it seems not quite in the manner you intended - but you still haven't really explained how or why the advert is in any way showing a lack of respect for veteran soldiers.
Let it go. The way this all turned out is bad enough as is.
 
Dec 24, 2006
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PsychoRaven said:
At the same time I love the Halo series and Bungie's games. Like He said he likes Halo but isn't hardcore like some of us. I have no problem with this. Not everyone will love every game. Who am I to tell him that he has to be a card carrying Halo loving nut like me?
Jaffe makes games, sounds hardcore to me. Atleast.. more hardcore than you'd need to be to play halo.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Sep 5, 2004
66,974
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sweet billy said:
hey everyone...adam orth here.

a couple of things:

i was surprised at how dave presented our conversation on his blog today. yes, i agreed to it, but i didn't realize he was going to present it as "look what he said" and include a photoshopped image. i simply thought it was going to be an interesting look at one of the many discussions we have daily about games and design etc. i've spoken with dave about this and we're on the same page with me being unhappy about it, but that's life. dave is a public guy and i'm not. i didn't fully understand the ramifications of what him posting our innocent conversation would have. lesson learned.

i stand by my opinion of the commercial. i felt it was disrespectful and i don't need to justify that to OR for anyone. it's just an opinion. i don't really understand why it matters to anyone, but if it does, that's your prerogative. enjoy!

i'm not a fan of the halo series either. it's just not my thing. if it's your thing? great. enjoy!

i'm proud of the work i've done on all the games i've made and am making. some were great, some were not. i think alot of people who post here don't actually make games and those are the people who think that 1 or 2 people are responsible for the outcome of the final product. obviously that isn't true. so to pinpoint me for not making "great games" like halo and not being allowed to have an opinion about games until i make the next halo doesn't make much sense. if you want to believe that? enjoy!

to the people who don't like medal of honor. great. don't play it. i used to make those games and i loved doing it. are they the best games ever? no, but it was a great, great experience that millions of people around the world loved and continue to love. i don't work there anymore, but i support my friends efforts and always look forward to their next effort.

i work for sony. i regret getting involved in this situation with david and i'd hate to have our IM conversation reflect badly on sony as a company. that's the thing that bothers me the most, because it has nothing to do with them. i made a mistake and even though i stand by my opinions 100%, i'm a little embarrassed about this.

at the end of the day, we're talking about VIDEO GAMES. everyone needs to remember that. we aren't changing the world....it's just entertainment and today i learned a lesson about that that i wont forget. in the big picture, none of this is really that important.

finally, i'm totally open to having halo 3 blow me away.

thanks for listening and if anyone wishes to contact me further, you may do so at sweetbilly_@hotmail.com.

- adam.

Too late, YOUR game is stupid!


Don't sweat it at all. It's your opinion, you're entitled to it. But watch Little Dieter Needs to Fly to see why this has nothing specific to say about veterans of WW2, and why it is in fact intended to be very respectful to all veterans, of all conflicts. I love MOH, incidentally.
 

Das-J

Law of the West
Apr 10, 2006
1,755
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Los Santos
Halo seems to get a lot more respect than it deserves for being a successful FPS title. Whether that's manufactured by Microsoft or inadvertently exaggerated by the fanbase, I don't know, but it's a bit sad to see it blown out of proportion.
Truth.
 

davidjaffe

The Fucking MAN.
Mar 8, 2005
646
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How the fuck did I misrepresent anyone? I posted the fucking IM that I asked if I could post. I seriously don't see how puttng a photoshop up of HALO KITTY slants it against Adam...

...the funny thing is, Adam and I will be working together tomorrow and laughing about all this :) At least I will be... :)

Sorry Adam! It'll blow over...it always does. Plus, like you said, it's your opinion. Why you and I can't have one and all these other folks can I never quite understood.

Love,

Billy Mitchell
 
Oct 22, 2006
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davidjaffe said:
How the fuck did I misrepresent anyone? I posted the fucking IM that I asked if I could post. I seriously don't see how puttng a photoshop up of HALO KITTY slants it against Adam...

...the funny thing is, Adam and I will be working together tomorrow and laughing about all this :) At least I will be... :)

Sorry Adam! It'll blow over...it always does. Plus, like you said, it's your opinion. Why you and I can't have one and all these other folks can I never quite understood.

Love,

Billy Mitchell
No misrepresentation, but I think some people here believe Adam wasn't aware that your guys' conversation would be posted verbatim and, thus, you were disrespectful. That's not how I saw it, but I think that's what they're saying.
 
Mar 28, 2007
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Great ad. People get offended by anything these days. You can offend people by eating a goddamn hamburger. Or by not capitalizing the g in God. Who cares?
 
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