David Jaffe (creator of God of War) annoyed by forum

Apr 7, 2006
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Absolutely effing right Jaffe....The horror of an opinion not shared with a self-proclaimed perfect sentient, who declares what's right and wrong, who deliberated and make judgment calls on who should be ostracized and who should be embraced.

I look at the Internet now and in as much as persons try to pretend that we have evolved as human beings, the more I believe we are not self-aware.... We are crucifying, gangbanging and pitchforking folk or trying to silence them for the most inane reasons, for simply having an opinion against a set and grouped-mindset.

Everything people in the earlier centuries endured, the zealotry of ideas and beliefs still exists, we only use technology and the latest medium to execute on our persecutions, dog piling, imprisonment and silencing of ideas and people who opine non-conforming views.....

You think King Henry was bad, there are many King Henry's in this new age, sitting with sceptres in hand and a crown on their head and their kingdom is the Internet, over which they survey.....Every atrocity you can imagine, every crime against free speech and differences of opinion persists as it did back then.

The world is really a cycle, technology just enhances the way people try to force their ideas on you or make you pay if you don't submit...One thing is for sure, lynch -mobbers, dog -pilers, pitchforkers are in much larger numbers on the Internet than they used to be centuries before....
 
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Jan 13, 2018
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I can't speak to the former, but the latter would have been covered by his employment contract. Just as I agree with ArenaNet firing Jessica Price, a company is obviously more than entitled to consider the conduct of its employees and act as it sees fit (within the law).

Coming back to Twitter and Facebook, our problem is that these companies are such monoliths they are no longer just *private* entities. They are public giants that control the flow of information. As such, I think speech on those platforms should only be limited by common law principles of calls to violence.

Alex Jones being an absolute prat about gay frogs should not only be tolterated, but actively encouraged.

The internet is the WIld West and it should be cherished as such.
Sure thing pal. Let's just redefine how private business operates or nationalize every private entity that doesn't fit into your narrative of how the internet should work. Why aren't you posting gore and porn right now btw? It's the wild west after all.
 
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Oct 2, 2018
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No, dude. Deplatforming is real and has a real, palpable effect in the expansion and rooting on ideas. We have recent proof here in Spain

So yeah, both giving voice and deplatforming works, and Yannopoulos is one of those dangerous beings that need to be deplatformed because his ideas are pure hate speech. And believe me, as someone living in a country that less than 50 years ago got out of a dictatorship based on hate speech, you guys don't want that.
In the case of Milo I have to disagree that deplatforming "works".

In my opinion, guys like Milo and various Youtube personalities etc have simply managed to successfully monetize ideas that already existed anyway.

Sure, deplatforming takes down the guy and he can't earn anymore money BUT there are literally hundreds of thousands of people who will spread the ideas for free.

Look at guys like Sargon of Akkad and Jordan Peterson. In my opinion, again, they are basically opportunists. They restate mostly pretty mundane and already existing talking points. For whatever reason it makes them a lightning rod for ResetEra type people and that generates a real sense that these guys are worthy of funding so that they can fight the good fight. If either of these were to "go away" tomorrow then someone who is willing to do the same job for less money or for free will rise from the ranks.

I'd actually even wonder if deplatforming might silence the person but actually spread the ideas.

Like, imagine 100 people watching a ResetEra thread. Some guy comes on and makes good points that go against the status quo. One guy. Then he cops a harsh ban despite being reasonable. If 50 of the "spectators" think "hang on, that guy had good points and he takes a ban, WTF, this place is nuts" then it's a win for the banned user's ideas actually because now they will spread.

Same with something like the KotakuInAction "Gamergate" subreddit. These guys are all talking to each other in a kind of "safe space". It's all really kept in that one place. Now, let's say ResetEra people get their way. They go seeking out KiA looking to get them kicked off Reddit. Let's say they succeed. Now you've got 10s of thousands of people going elsewhere with these ideas and spreading them AND many onlookers will think "it was harsh to ban that subreddit" so that's more people suspicious of the ResetEra side of the argument.

They always complain about r/TheDonald but the truth is that the crazy stuff in r/TheDonald says mostly confined to the sub. Take that away and where will they go?

Historically, deplatforming seems to not work at all if an idea is compelling enough to take hold. Once the idea is popular it's pretty much to late to deplatform the people pushing the idea.
 
Feb 21, 2018
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Why aren't you posting gore and porn right now btw?
Well, I could if I was on a porn site.

What I couldn't do, however, is post illegal forms of pornography, without the threat of prosecution.

I suggest you scuttle back to Resetera and embrace the Hive Mind. You clearly get angry when challenged.

Pal.
 
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Likes: LukeSkywater
Jan 13, 2018
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I like that you think concepts like establishing fucking rules on your website and enforcing them are so out there only the SJWs on resetera believe in them. Good day to you regardless.
 
Feb 21, 2018
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I like that you think concepts like establishing fucking rules on your website and enforcing them are so out there only the SJWs on resetera believe in them. Good day to you regardless.
So, let’s play the ‘read what Ogbert actually said’ game.

My first statement was ‘Resetera are quite correct that a private company has no requirement to tolerate any given type of speech’.

So there you go, your pejorative was entirely unnecessary. I agree that any private company can set rules.

Now, stay with me, it’s about to get more nuanced. My suggestion is that when private companies become so controlling in any given field, those rules are subject to extra scrutiny. This is the basic principle of competition law and most regulation. I gave the example of open banking; so Banks have to have more liberal policies for taking on customers. Tobacco advertising is a similar idea. And just this morning, in the UK, gambling companies agreed to cease all TV advertising during sports games, due to the proliferation of this activity. That’s not nationalization. That’s an example of Governments applying regulation to private companies for public benefit.

I think Twitter and Facebook require the same investigation and analysis. Their position is so dominant and so controlling, that their position on allowed speech should be investigated by the government. My suggestion would be that only actively hateful speech *that is inciting violence* (the important qualification) should be banned.
 
Aug 20, 2015
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I like that you think concepts like establishing fucking rules on your website and enforcing them are so out there only the SJWs on resetera believe in them. Good day to you regardless.
You seem to be having some trouble understanding that there is a concept called "free speech" - which is one of the key beliefs of liberalism FYI, as well as being enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights - that is entirely seperate and predates the US legally protected concept defining how a government should operate in the constitution.

Believing in a principle of free speech, means being required to defend the rights of people that disgust you to abuse that freedom, even where those same people would happily strip that right from you.
Thats literally why organisations like the ACLU will defend hate mongering rhetoric from the likes of the Westboro Baptist Church.

Because its real fucking easy to have principles when they perfectly align with things you agree with anyway.
 
Jan 7, 2018
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Urg, now I like Jaffe.

But if they've already dehumanised him and classified him as a alt-right nazi (aka their standard knee-jerk reaction) then it's pointless trying to debate the matter.
 
Dec 3, 2018
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Developers should stay away from ResetEra if they know what's good for them. Sooner or later the mob from Era forum will come after their ass for having an opinion.
I agree, but it is not just a Resetera problem. Alot of forums tend to shitpile on stuff, but on resetera they make every minor social issue into some apocalypse type situation. See CDPR tweeting, R* Crunch.... Well the list is endless. It must be terrible as a developer To read through that shit, When you you just wanted to make a game for People to enjoy.
 
Sep 17, 2012
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Why people come here to complain about ResetEra? It's even more embarassing than posting there.

Please have some decency, respect yourself at least.
One has the right to talk about RE, just as much as 4chan. But mentioning Phantom Thief and using those personal insults, especially without his presence in order to reply is not something fit for a respectable public forum. Remember, it is the behavior, not the person that should be judged.
 
Likes: Helios
Jun 22, 2014
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As funny as that is, I know many who are ardently not SJW/Far-Left types that use a lot of that language. I think it may just be a generational thing.

Also what is wrong with y'all? Makin' a South Dakotan sad here :'(
I think y'all kind of sounds like a white person roleplaying as a black person. Bute more importantly a lot of those are really innocuous and it's about the context. Seriously stuff like "you do realize" and "it's almost as if" are pitch perfect on the kind of argument logic they always apply.
 
Jan 13, 2018
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So, let’s play the ‘read what Ogbert actually said’ game.

My first statement was ‘Resetera are quite correct that a private company has no requirement to tolerate any given type of speech’.

So there you go, your pejorative was entirely unnecessary. I agree that any private company can set rules.

Now, stay with me, it’s about to get more nuanced. My suggestion is that when private companies become so controlling in any given field, those rules are subject to extra scrutiny. This is the basic principle of competition law and most regulation. I gave the example of open banking; so Banks have to have more liberal policies for taking on customers. Tobacco advertising is a similar idea. And just this morning, in the UK, gambling companies agreed to cease all TV advertising during sports games, due to the proliferation of this activity. That’s not nationalization. That’s an example of Governments applying regulation to private companies for public benefit.

I think Twitter and Facebook require the same investigation and analysis. Their position is so dominant and so controlling, that their position on allowed speech should be investigated by the government. My suggestion would be that only actively hateful speech *that is inciting violence* (the important qualification) should be banned.
You're just doing false equivalency. Twitter and Facebook are already under anti-monopoly regulations. Your banking example is probably the closest one to making sense but it still doesn't. Banks can deny you service based on your behaviour. Tabacco advertising is just ridiculous. Regulating marketing on a harmful substance is in no way comparable to an online private business banning someone for their behaviour or the things they said. Same thing with the gambling example. Nothing to do with a monopoly, nothing to do with denial service, just a harmful industry being denied certain promotional rights. What you are asking for is akin nationalization. You are demanding the government step in and tell twitter how they should run their own social media platform and who they're not allowed to ban from it. It'd be like the government stepping and telling a store they can't deny service on someone because they happened to pull a gun on them in their own establishment. It's ridiculous. There are already multiple alternatives to twitter and facebook with more lax rules. If your views were so prevalent then they'd be passed by those in no time. The free market will take care of it.
 
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ar0s

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Feb 21, 2018
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Sounds like he's trying to stir shit to direct attention to himself, as if some people whining about him online means they think he's number one public enemy, lol? Plenty devs spewed whatever crap against "neogaf" in the past too, if you're not ok with them doing that as if everybody who ever visited and wrote here must have the exact same way of thinking as anyone else then there's no reason to condone anyone else doing that for another community. I haven't seen what this all is about in detail but yeah I do think freedom of speech doesn't mean everyone should be able to incite hatred against others without consequence so saying that freedom of speech means you should be able to say anything is wrong as far as I'm concerned. Dunno if the person he defended did spew hate or not, but the defence has been that he should be able to cos freedom of speech so I'm pointing out that's a fallacy as far as I'm concerned, one's freedom's ends where another's begins and everyone has the right to live happy and in peace without being targeted for his origin or faith or color or sexuality or self identification or whatever else, do whatever you want as long as it doesn't threaten someone else's rights. That's all I'll say about this.
This way blasphemy laws lie. They have already prosecuted people for blasphemy to islam in Europe (under some made up nonsense justification that pretends it's not blasphemy laws) and as with you, all the liberals here are backing it because people have a 'right' to live without their faith being insulted. Errrm the entirity of history wants a word with you - the west is advanced precisely BECAUSE you did not have the right to not have your faith insulted. People need to open their eyes and get real about what is happening, instead of casually condoning it.
 
Likes: Miku Miku
Oct 1, 2006
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Nosgotham

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Nov 8, 2014
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Dog whistle? That's new to me lol. But yeah, good on jaffe. Getting banned from resetera was like my shackles being cut loose. It was awesome. Banned for life because I said I didn't want political views in my videogame reviews. Which to Era means "supporting hate speech ". Lol

Bunch of self important, echo chamber, first year philosophy majors. That place is a cesspool
 
Jan 10, 2017
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Surely people like this don't exist in real life, right? And by "people" I mean the reeeesetera people. Sure they spout off all their delusion online but in actual real life...they can't be this ignorant right? Surely it's just some sort of online mob mentality type of thing.
 
Oct 2, 2018
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Dog whistle? That's new to me lol. But yeah, good on jaffe. Getting banned from resetera was like my shackles being cut loose. It was awesome. Banned for life because I said I didn't want political views in my videogame reviews. Which to Era means "supporting hate speech ". Lol

Bunch of self important, echo chamber, first year philosophy majors. That place is a cesspool
That seems to be one of their big ones. "Everything is political".
You disagree with that and you are heading for a banning.

Same goes for arguing too hard against "gamers are trash".

It's like they will let you get away with saying "well Mario Kart isn't political" or "most gamers are just decent ordinary people" but if they think you are making seriously good points against their core beliefs then you'll be gone.
 
Likes: Wwg1wga
Oct 2, 2018
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Surely people like this don't exist in real life, right? And by "people" I mean the reeeesetera people. Sure they spout off all their delusion online but in actual real life...they can't be this ignorant right? Surely it's just some sort of online mob mentality type of thing.
They do exist but in real life you'd be an outcast if you behaved like that.

Probably why you get the "how to deal with family at Thanksgiving" articles every year.
I can imagine these clowns ruining family dinner for everyone by ranting about this BS and then getting depressed because nobody wants to deal with them.

We did have one friend like this who essentially lost his mind over Brexit. It just got to the stage where nobody wanted to hang out with him because some people voted leave and some voted remain and that's that. What can you do? He'd even go off on the ones (like myself) who didn't vote at all.

It's just hard work to deal with someone like that.
 

Rekki-Maru

Junior Member
Sep 24, 2006
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that place is strange indeed, and when people get banned they put the reason why for everyone to see. Like when they use to excute people and put a sign on them showing what crime was commited. "Flamboyant Fucktardery: said something bad about Nintendo, Maximum Penalty"
 
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Nelsin

Gold Member
Nov 21, 2018
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I would say forums overall can be really toxic, even here neogaf I have been accuse of "weebo perv" just because I like anime and Japanese games.

What can you do? its just nature of internet.
Probably you been banned by the same mods that moved to Era.

I once got banned there for 1 month for saying that anime girl wearing rabbit custom isnt really that bad.

The next few weeks I see picture of link naked and people having an open discussion with no restriction whatsoever.


That place has really really gone too far imo.


I just wish gaf becomes more active so I dont relay on that shitty place for news.
 

NXGamer

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Jan 7, 2016
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Seems some other website pissed off one of my fav devs.
And he does not hide his feelings at all.

Thanks for making those games jaffe and staying true to yourself.
Fully agree with what he says, albeit with less colourful language. This "protecting the weak" shield that get raised in these situations is a falsehood or misguided at best and at worse is an arrogant and dictatorship view, no good comes from it.

I am old enough to remember the UK censorship and video nasty stuff that happened, having "someone else" tell us what we can and cannot watch and if we did it would make us bad people, murderers etc and yet NOT affect the BBFC teams that sat and watched this stuff day in and day out. Like these people that jump on a comment with a defensive/dismissive attitude, they are better than us and thus above being affected like us mere plebs.

If you do not like something, fine, move on, if you have an argument, make it, constructively but resorting to insults or appeals to authority is the absolute worse path to take and is normally from someone who's pride or ego is damaged. Discriminating views are clearly ones that should be challenged.
 
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[QUOTE="dmaul1114, post: 253620823, member: 744479"Some of the greatest people in history like MLK were the SJWs of their time. [/QUOTE]
MLK was not an SJW. He wanted equal opportunity, not equality of outcome. He wanted meritocracy, not affirmative action. Judge people by the content of their character not the color of their skin. SJWs go against everything MLK fought for.
 
Apr 5, 2018
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Its Dave Jaffe's right to be annoyed , am surprised he keeps his cool to be honest , he tweeted out something about loot boxes ain't gambling or something and that he don't enjoy most AAA games these days , the amount of shit he got was hilarious but fair play to Jaffe he stayed polite and answered most people, he generally seems a good bloke to me.

the other place is very ridiculous with there set opinions, Imagine going and logging onto a FORUM just to agree with every other poster , not because you actually agree with everyone but because you are scared to be banned , its very saddening to think about.

I've said before and ill say again YES Neogaf ain't as popular as the purple place at the moment but guess what there is more discussion and disagreements in a two page thread here , then there is on a twenty page thread there . go and look , all they do is set the narrative at the start of the thread and then its page upon page of the same shitty talking points repeated but in different ways , But if you disagree you will get the Red worded modded ban hammer
 
Aug 20, 2008
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that place is strange indeed, and when people get banned they put the reason why for everyone to see. Like when they use to excute people and put a sign on them showing what crime was commited. "Flamboyant Fucktardery: said something bad about Nintendo, Maximum Penalty"
They do that here too and even have a log of it.

https://www.neogaf.com/bans/

It's a good thing (though the messages could be less snarky at time). It's good to have transparency and to have examples for users of what gets people banned.
 

7upguy

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May 9, 2017
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Im glad for it too. But i'm just curious, did you care about "discussion and sharing of different opinions" before you got banned? Was it OK for you to see others get banned for those values you speak of? Or is it that you only realized "discussion and sharing of different opinions" don't exist in that forum only after you got banned?
I have always known that expressing a different opinion would get you banned. I only went to Resetera for video game discussion and tried my best to ignore the political side, but politics always found a way to creep into the video game side. It really bothered me seeing people getting banned just for trying to have a discussion.
 

Blam

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The amount of fucking hoops people are jumping over in ERA is insane the mental gymnastics they are performing to continue to like Jaffe over there is something not even a gold medal Olympic gymnast could do.
 
Jan 5, 2012
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fuck resetera and their hive mind shit. if you don't think like them, they'll all gang up on you and say 'do tell more, blah blah you're -phobic, lack inclusiveness, racist, alt-somethig'.

jaffe has his opinion as we all do, and objectively its a private website with their own rules - so that's a given. but to rationalize banning because of someone's opinion ? fuck em.

also, does my buddy warranted a ban? how hard is it to unban a perm ? can someone help . he was banned years ago.
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Jan 30, 2018
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I think y'all kind of sounds like a white person roleplaying as a black person. Bute more importantly a lot of those are really innocuous and it's about the context. Seriously stuff like "you do realize" and "it's almost as if" are pitch perfect on the kind of argument logic they always apply.
Huh. Never heard that before. "Y'all" is commonly used in much of the midwest.


Back OT:

Jaffe has to defend himself even more from those nutters who make light of serious accusations.
 
Likes: DeepEnigma
Dec 3, 2013
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Huh. Never heard that before. "Y'all" is commonly used in much of the midwest.


Back OT:

Jaffe has to defend himself even more from those nutters who make light of serious accusations.
He slapped them down, so thus the "Character Assassinations™" will ensue.

They are ever so predictable. What a cesspool that place is. I am laughing at you ZhugeEX and shinobi602. All your Tweets kissing ass to people in the industry, yet you allow this to flourish in your community (along with doxxing). Wolves in sheep's clothing it appears when put into perspective.
 
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