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Days Gone Creator, Jeff Ross got 8 Million number from Internal Source that matches third party website tracker.

Sorry thats just not a reliable way to gauge sales, on top of all the other metrics involved.

It’s good if the guy just moves on and let the current bend make what they’re making without all the bullshit articles about the studio

Sure, that's your opinion. But don't misquote him. He's saying it's 8 million before he left, not 5.
 

Fake

Member
Straight white guy in days gone = 71 mc

Straight white guy in uncharted = 94 mc

You know you're kinda proving his point, right?

Jeff said people those days care more about Metacrtitic score than having fun with the game, and here you are posting metacritic score comparisons.

BTW, LL for me is far more better than UC4.
 

yurinka

Member
That’s not what people in here are saying? They’re saying it is on PSNow, PS+, and the PS+ instant collection. Is that wrong?
Wasn't it given with ps plus at some point? Could be off by millions.
It's in the PS Plus Collection.

No, gamstat numbers were very accurate (Jeff said it matched their in-game telemetry, and many other studios said it matched well their sales, with -as Jeff and gamstat website mentioned- its margin error due to 2nd hand, people who bought a game but didn't play it, etc) and did work and where updated until november 2020 or slightly before, when Sony did change the trophies system to add PS5 for its release. Gamstat did stop working somewhere before PS5 launch it couldn't add any PS5 numbers, and any post-PS5 launch PS4 numbers.

So PS Plus Collection numbers aren't included in his 8M number. Later in 2021 Days Gone was also added to PS Plus so aren't included either. But Days Gone was added to PS Now in October 2020 and he left in December and the 8M+ numbers were from where aprox a month before he left.

Back then PS Now had 2M+ subs, let's say the 8M+ covered a few weeks of PS Now and a big portion of PS Now players were interested on it and played it the first days it was included. Maybe it was 7M+ instead 8M+, plus the 1M+ from PC until now. It would be ~8M+ units sold plus whatever it sold in PS4+PS5 since PS5 launch plus the money it generated from PS Now, PS Plus and PS Plus Collection.

That is the crux of this discussion. Sony was very disappointed when it didn't hit 80+ on Metacritic. They flat out refused Days Gone 2 without thinking about it, and assumed the game was gonna sell maybe 3 million max and go away. That Sony has always treated Days Done as their ugly duckling because of the low scores and maybe some of the drama.
He explain on the @davidjaffe livestream (with people here keep ignoring, IDK why) that even if Days Gone was beating GoW/HZD in sales, Sony would never be happy because Sony is looking for metacritic numbers from now.
He even joke saying "they maybe don't like mix scores games, but still want all the money they can generate".
What exactly is upper management at Bend studios? in-fighting? what are you talking about?

In the interview, they talked about local management, which I assume is the Sony branch they answer to since they are a Sony first-party dev.

The directors of the game said that the bad feedback about DG1 and DG2 not being greenlighted was a Bend Studio level thing, not a Sony level thing. Jeff specified that by 'local management' he meant the studio manager (the top boss of the studio) of Bend Studio gave them bad feedback about DG1, didn't give them visibility about sales and didn't allow them to send the DG2 pitch to Sony.

The directors said Sony always were very supportive with them, one of them said in the previous interview with Jaffe that talked with one of them about the DG early reviews (can't remember who, I think it was Scott) and was supportive with the reviews. They also mentioned Shawn was their biggest fan and DG1 and DG2 supporter within Sony. They also mentioned Sony gave them (during decades, not only in DG) always full creative freedom and allowed them to do 'whatever they fucking wanted'.

Plus Sony gave them extra budget for a (can't remember if were two) big delay, for post launch fixes and additions, and to make the PC port. Sony also highlighted Days Gone as one of their big hits to their investors and inclued it in the PS Plus Collection under the label 'games that defined a generation' and showing Days Gone in its promotional image. Sony didn't receive a DG2 pitch from Bend, they received the new IP (which is riskier than a sequel of a game that is on track to sell 10M+ units, not counting units from game subs) pitch and greenlighted it.

Seems that Sony was ok with DG1 and Bend, and probably would have greenlighted a sequel if received that pitch from Bend Studio. But the pitch that Sony received from Bend was the new IP, because the Bend Studio boss didn't even want to read the DG2 pitch.

Straight white guy in days gone = 71 mc

Straight white guy in uncharted = 94 mc

Why won’t people admit this was juts a below average game?
Regarding reviews, they improved a bit for the PC version (76 MC). But gaming media reviews are pretty different than the user reviews (93% positive in Steam, 8.4 PS4 MC, 8.6 PC MC).

They removed straight white guy from their most recent Uncharted, TLOU and Spider-Man, plus no white male protagonist in their most recent new IPs like Returnal, GoT, Dreams or Horizon. Even their male furry now got a female co-protagonist.

Watch out Kratos, they're coming for you. Sony is getting rid of white male protagonists. Only Wolverine (Marvel, not Sony IP) and maybe Norman Reedus (and because he's a Kojima fetish) seem to remain with you.
 
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Fake

Member
Watch out Kratos, they're coming for you. Sony is getting rid of white male protagonists. Only Wolverine (Marvel, not Sony IP) and maybe Norman Reedus (and because he's a Kojima fetish) seem to remain with you.

I guess is pretty inevitable they will take Kratos away from GoW franchise taking his past historic with don't quite match the modern Sony. They did with Joel in a pretty untasteful way, now is a matter of time plus the ending of GoW 2018.
 

Mister Wolf

Member
Watch out Kratos, they're coming for you. Sony is getting rid of white male protagonists. Only Wolverine (Marvel, not Sony IP) and maybe Norman Reedus (and because he's a Kojima fetish) seem to remain with you.

They neutered Kratos a long time ago. Ever wonder why we never got a release of the original trilogy post new "Father Kratos" for PS4, PS5, or PC. They are going to bury that in the past.
 
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Bragr

Member
The directors of the game said that the bad feedback about DG1 and DG2 not being greenlighted was a Bend Studio level thing, not a Sony level thing. Jeff specified that by 'local management' he meant the studio manager (the top boss of the studio) of Bend Studio gave them bad feedback about DG1, didn't give them visibility about sales and didn't allow them to send the DG2 pitch to Sony.

The directors said Sony always were very supportive with them, one of them said in the previous interview with Jaffe that talked with one of them about the DG early reviews (can't remember who, I think it was Scott) and was supportive with the reviews. They also mentioned Shawn was their biggest fan and DG1 and DG2 supporter within Sony. They also mentioned Sony gave them (during decades, not only in DG) always full creative freedom and allowed them to do 'whatever they fucking wanted'.

Plus Sony gave them extra budget for a (can't remember if were two) big delay, for post launch fixes and additions, and to make the PC port. Sony also highlighted Days Gone as one of their big hits to their investors and inclued it in the PS Plus Collection under the label 'games that defined a generation' and showing Days Gone in its promotional image. Sony didn't receive a DG2 pitch from Bend, they received the new IP (which is riskier than a sequel of a game that is on track to sell 10M+ units, not counting units from game subs) pitch and greenlighted it.

Seems that Sony was ok with DG1 and Bend, and probably would have greenlighted a sequel if received that pitch from Bend Studio. But the pitch that Sony received from Bend was the new IP, because the Bend Studio boss didn't even want to read the DG2 pitch.
First off, none of us have any idea what is really going on and I'm sure the guys in the interview would chuckle if they saw our dumbass ramblings here, but in the interview, he also said that the tone changed when Sony changed leadership, hinting at the new leadership at Sony not being very willing to do anything with Days Gone. Bend Studios is Sony. Meaning, the local management is how you talk to Sony, they are Sony's voice, if those guys aren't on your side it's because Sony ain't on your side.
 

yurinka

Member
I guess is pretty inevitable they will take Kratos away from GoW franchise taking his past historic with don't quite match the modern Sony. They did with Joel in a pretty untasteful way, now is a matter of time plus the ending of GoW 2018.
There is nothing wrong with Kratos' and Joel's past. They were beloved great characters then and still today. It doesn't make sense to get rid of them, in the same way it doesn't make sense to get rid of Ratchet and specially Nathan fucking Drake.

And yes, I remember the GoW ending (but well you know, they always can say prophecies don't always become true, that the future can be changed, etc) and that Loki is a shapeshifter that can transform into animals and into another people, so includes to change its sex. So they could sell it as 'GoW now has a gender fluid trans protagonist who know has a black female sidekick'.

I mean, I'm not into religious/cultist stuff but I respect them wanting to do woke tokenism stuff even if I think it doesn't make sense. But do it in separate IPs, don't ruin classic IPs and kill and replace your best and more iconic, charismatic characters just to be a poser. They don't need to remove Kratos from GoW in the same way they didn't need to replace Joel with a manly woman.

They can perfectly continue with Kratos as the protagonist and it would be the best for the series. They could even make TLOU3 with Joel as the only main protagonist telling things from his past if desired. But I think it won't happen because they want to remove all white, cis, straight, male protagonists because it's what 'diversity' means for them. You'll get white, cis, straight, male characters only as bad, dumb or toxic secondary characters.

First off, none of us have any idea what is really going on and I'm sure the guys in the interview would chuckle if they saw our dumbass ramblings here, but in the interview, he also said that the tone changed when Sony changed leadership, hinting at the new leadership at Sony not being very willing to do anything with Days Gone. Bend Studios is Sony. Meaning, the local management is how you talk to Sony, they are Sony's voice, if those guys aren't on your side it's because Sony ain't on your side.
They said in the interview that the issue with DG and DG2 was at the studio management within Bend studio/local studio management/boss of Bend Studio, not with current or past -what me and them meant with- 'Sony' (SIE America/SIE/PlayStation Studios management). The Bend game directors wanted to make DG2 and Bend studio manage didn't.

They also mentioned that they had a great relationship with the 'Sony' guys, this is Scott Rohde, Shuhei and Shawn Layden, who was the biggest DG supporter. So with the Bend Studio boss shitting DG1 and blocking DG2, the only hope for DG2 was to 'force it' from Shawn's side. But he stepped out.

The current management of 'Sony' (again, with this I mean SIEA & PlayStation Studios, outside Bend) never got a DG2 pitch from Bend, got the new IP pitch instead and greenlighted it.
 
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Fake

Member
There is nothing wrong with Kratos' and Joel's past. They were beloved great characters then and still today. It doesn't make sense to get rid of them, in the same way it doesn't make sense to get rid of Ratchet and specially Nathan fucking Drake.

And yes, I remember the GoW ending (but well you know, they always can say prophecies don't always become true, that the future can be changed, etc) and that Loki is a shapeshifter that can transform into animals and into another people, so includes to change its sex. So they could sell it as 'GoW now has a gender fluid trans protagonist who know has a black female sidekick'.

I mean, I'm not into religious/cultist stuff but I respect them wanting to do woke tokenism stuff even if I think it doesn't make sense. But do it in separate IPs, don't ruin classic IPs and kill and replace your best and more iconic characters just to be a poser.

One the reasons I left Twitter was because the amount of freaks there.
If you saw what I saw about the things they say about Kratos, you would probably reconsider. And Playstation take social media those days pretty serious.

Not saying Kratos will be poof, but is highly probable. I mean, everyone that played GoW 2018 saw that Atreus keep doing what Kratos can do, in fact pretty easy, like using his Axe? Tried to used Spartan mode, but failed, but I sure he will capable in this next game.

Anw, just my thoughts.
 

Bragr

Member
They said in the interview that the issue with DG and DG2 was at the studio management within Bend studio/local studio management/boss of Bend Studio, not with current or past -what me and them meant with- 'Sony' (SIE America/SIE/PlayStation Studios management). The Bend game directors wanted to make DG2 and Bend studio manage didn't.

They also mentioned that they had a great relationship with the 'Sony' guys, this is Scott Rohde, Shuhei and Shawn Layden, who was the biggest DG supporter. So with the Bend Studio boss shitting DG1 and blocking DG2, the only hope for DG2 was to 'force it' from Shawn's side. But he stepped out.

The current management of 'Sony' (again, with this I mean SIEA & PlayStation Studios, outside Bend) never got a DG2 pitch from Bend, got the new IP pitch instead and greenlighted it.
What I'm saying is, Bend management, is Sony. It's called SIE Bend for a reason, when those guys shut the project down, it's because key people higher up in Sony aren't keen on the idea. It's because some key people within Sony were initially disappointed at the low scores and the Sony branch of Bend knew it. The Sony higher-ups don't talk with the writer of the game, they talk with the studio representative.
 
I guess is pretty inevitable they will take Kratos away from GoW franchise taking his past historic with don't quite match the modern Sony. They did with Joel in a pretty untasteful way, now is a matter of time plus the ending of GoW 2018.

was it sony or was it druckmann? make your mind up. if it was all naughty dogs choice, than how would it be sony's fault? or did sony tell them they must kill off joel! who is the one actually making these decisions? if its sony than why are they selective? one minute they are against sexualisation and the next, they are ok with it? look at project eve. why are sony promoting that game when it has a sexualised female character when it doesnt match "modern sony".
 

Fake

Member
was it sony or was it druckmann? make your mind up. if it was all naughty dogs choice, than how would it be sony's fault? or did sony tell them they must kill off joel! who is the one actually making these decisions? if its sony than why are they selective? one minute they are against sexualisation and the next, they are ok with it? look at project eve. why are sony promoting that game when it has a sexualised female character when it doesnt match "modern sony".

Make up my mind? Are you saying Druckmann don't work for Sony? Don't answer from Sony? Is not a Sony employe?

And yes, if you really played God of War 2018 you would know that is kinda possible to happen. But again, just, my, thoughts. We're already avoiding the thread subject too much.
 
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It seems to me some people are mixing up the timeline of events like that game(dis)informer article.

1 - Jeff Ross states the game had sold around 8 million copies by the time he left Bend in December 2020. At that date, Days Gone hadn't been in PS Plus yet, nor out on PC. It had been on PS Plus Collection for two weeks since the PS5 launch but only for PS5 users, who also had another 19 new games with the pack.
His 8 million claim has no impact from PS Plus or PC, and very little impact from the Plus Collection as most new PS5 owners (4 million or so?) were probably playing PS5 games at that point.


2 - He justified the accuracy of his 8 million claim because when they were told an official sales number of 5.8 million, their own telemetry numbers hinted at 5 million sales. They were off by 14% less, probably because the amount of people buying the game and not playing it was significantly larger than the ones lending their disc to friends or playing the game multiple times.


3 - Jeff Ross made games for Sony for 20 years. He probably knows how to extrapolate sales numbers from their telemetry data a lot better than videogame bloggers or forum users.


4 - Jeff never meant to shit on Ghost of Tsushima or Sony. He expressed disbelief for seeing Sucker Punch celebrating GoT's 8 million sales whereas Bend stayed quiet when they crossed the same line. He's complaining about Bend's local management and he's been very clear on that.


Bend's management apparently decided that Days Gone was a flop when they saw the metacritic score and rushed to kill the franchise on that alone. Of course the metacritic scores arrives 1 week after launch, and 18 month sales only arrive after 18 months, and studio management should know as much.
Days Gone also had the problem of overlapping its setting with Last of Us 2, and we know who's the obvious favorite child between Naughty Dog and Bend.


With these numbers in mind, there's also the fact that Days Gone may have sold very close or even better than the games-media favorite Last of Us 2, and that would present a very important irrelevance of the professional game reviewers.
 
It seems to me some people are mixing up the timeline of events like that game(dis)informer article.

1 - Jeff Ross states the game had sold around 8 million copies by the time he left Bend in December 2020. At that date, Days Gone hadn't been in PS Plus yet, nor out on PC. It had been on PS Plus Collection for two weeks since the PS5 launch but only for PS5 users, who also had another 19 new games with the pack.
His 8 million claim has no impact from PS Plus or PC, and very little impact from the Plus Collection as most new PS5 owners (4 million or so?) were probably playing PS5 games at that point.


2 - He justified the accuracy of his 8 million claim because when they were told an official sales number of 5.8 million, their own telemetry numbers hinted at 5 million sales. They were off by 14% less, probably because the amount of people buying the game and not playing it was significantly larger than the ones lending their disc to friends or playing the game multiple times.


3 - Jeff Ross made games for Sony for 20 years. He probably knows how to extrapolate sales numbers from their telemetry data a lot better than videogame bloggers or forum users.


4 - Jeff never meant to shit on Ghost of Tsushima or Sony. He expressed disbelief for seeing Sucker Punch celebrating GoT's 8 million sales whereas Bend stayed quiet when they crossed the same line. He's complaining about Bend's local management and he's been very clear on that.


Bend's management apparently decided that Days Gone was a flop when they saw the metacritic score and rushed to kill the franchise on that alone. Of course the metacritic scores arrives 1 week after launch, and 18 month sales only arrive after 18 months, and studio management should know as much.
Days Gone also had the problem of overlapping its setting with Last of Us 2, and we know who's the obvious favorite child between Naughty Dog and Bend.


With these numbers in mind, there's also the fact that Days Gone may have sold very close or even better than the games-media favorite Last of Us 2, and that would present a very important irrelevance of the professional game reviewers.

Days gone won't have sold anywhere close to the Last of Us mate.

Days gone is a decent game I preferred it to Ghost for instance. They did themselves a disservice releasing it in the buggy state they did as now the game is much better.

It's not much of shame though that Bend management don't want a sequel. It's ok. Would be ok if Ghost didn't get a sequel as well. The games are good but they aren't so good that it's a disgrace to not continue them

People throwing their toys out the pram is hilarious. Bend management clearly think they can do something better. People should be happy they are getting to make what they want.

Imagine the opposite happened and they where forced to do a sequel.
 
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Is this an opinion or do you have solid data to prove the claim?

Well it sold over 4 million in the first 3 days.

Jeff Ross said Days gone sold 5 million when he left the company

Last of Us was constantly on European charts for months and months.

So it's a fairly educated guess.

Also Last of us was announced as Sonys third highest grossing game ever a long long time ago.
 
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The Shepard

Member
A lot of reviews unfairly dissed it just because the hero was an all American white guy from a rural area, you know, the kind that wouldn't necessarily vote democrat and that really upset a lot of the modern woke game "journalists" out there.

This is what it's really about. The game sold more than enough to justify a sequel.
 
No, gamstat numbers were very accurate (Jeff said it matched their in-game telemetry, and many other studios said it matched well their sales, with -as Jeff and gamstat website mentioned- its margin error due to 2nd hand, people who bought a game but didn't play it, etc) and did work and where updated until november 2020 or slightly before, when Sony did change the trophies system to add PS5 for its release. Gamstat did stop working somewhere before PS5 launch it couldn't add any PS5 numbers, and any post-PS5 launch PS4 numbers.

So PS Plus Collection numbers aren't included in his 8M number. Later in 2021 Days Gone was also added to PS Plus so aren't included either. But Days Gone was added to PS Now in October 2020 and he left in December and the 8M+ numbers were from where aprox a month before he left.

Back then PS Now had 2M+ subs, let's say the 8M+ covered a few weeks of PS Now and a big portion of PS Now players were interested on it and played it the first days it was included. Maybe it was 7M+ instead 8M+, plus the 1M+ from PC until now. It would be ~8M+ units sold plus whatever it sold in PS4+PS5 since PS5 launch plus the money it generated from PS Now, PS Plus and PS Plus Collection.





The directors of the game said that the bad feedback about DG1 and DG2 not being greenlighted was a Bend Studio level thing, not a Sony level thing. Jeff specified that by 'local management' he meant the studio manager (the top boss of the studio) of Bend Studio gave them bad feedback about DG1, didn't give them visibility about sales and didn't allow them to send the DG2 pitch to Sony.

The directors said Sony always were very supportive with them, one of them said in the previous interview with Jaffe that talked with one of them about the DG early reviews (can't remember who, I think it was Scott) and was supportive with the reviews. They also mentioned Shawn was their biggest fan and DG1 and DG2 supporter within Sony. They also mentioned Sony gave them (during decades, not only in DG) always full creative freedom and allowed them to do 'whatever they fucking wanted'.

Plus Sony gave them extra budget for a (can't remember if were two) big delay, for post launch fixes and additions, and to make the PC port. Sony also highlighted Days Gone as one of their big hits to their investors and inclued it in the PS Plus Collection under the label 'games that defined a generation' and showing Days Gone in its promotional image. Sony didn't receive a DG2 pitch from Bend, they received the new IP (which is riskier than a sequel of a game that is on track to sell 10M+ units, not counting units from game subs) pitch and greenlighted it.

Seems that Sony was ok with DG1 and Bend, and probably would have greenlighted a sequel if received that pitch from Bend Studio. But the pitch that Sony received from Bend was the new IP, because the Bend Studio boss didn't even want to read the DG2 pitch.


Regarding reviews, they improved a bit for the PC version (76 MC). But gaming media reviews are pretty different than the user reviews (93% positive in Steam, 8.4 PS4 MC, 8.6 PC MC).

They removed straight white guy from their most recent Uncharted, TLOU and Spider-Man, plus no white male protagonist in their most recent new IPs like Returnal, GoT, Dreams or Horizon. Even their male furry now got a female co-protagonist.

Watch out Kratos, they're coming for you. Sony is getting rid of white male protagonists. Only Wolverine (Marvel, not Sony IP) and maybe Norman Reedus (and because he's a Kojima fetish) seem to remain with you.

are they making wolverine puerto rican as well?
 
It sold lots of pre-orders and release-day purchases, both of which are attributed to the success of TLoU1. Following that, all we got was radio silence from Sony.




Wrong. 8 million when he left the company.
And was topping and in the top 5-10 for charts for long after that.

Meanwhile Days gone was not.

Again I did like Days gone but it's wishful thinking on your part to think it outsould TLOU.

Who knows if this guy is even correct on sales. As you said Sony is radio silent on most sales numbers so maybe 8 million is correct.

Maybe it's more. Maybe it's less.

Also we have info like the bellow showing TLOU sales performance versus other games that we have data on.


Also it appeared TLOU seemed to perform even better in Europe relative to the US
 
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leo-j

Member
Game prob sold 2- 2.5 million on PS4 and 1 million on pc. The rest are prob ps sub downloads. And yes I do believe 1-2 million of the 5 million ish sales are ps plus collection. And if the 8 million is to be believed there’s 48 million ps
Plus subscribers that had a chance to grab days gone for free.
 
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Game prob sold 2- 2.5 million on PS4 and 1 million on pc. The rest are prob ps sub downloads. And yes I do believe 1-2 million of the 5 million ish sales are ps plus collection. And if the 8 million is to be believed there’s 48 million ps
Plus subscribers that had a chance to grab days gone for free.

There's been alot of speculation chucked around but this is the most absurd yet. You're way off
 
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Does anyone really care?

Days Gone was an average game and I don't think there'll be too many crying about the fact that it won't get a sequel.

I just hope that whatever Bend does next the game actually feels good to play and character movement isn't as sluggish and clunky as in this game.
 

leo-j

Member
Does anyone really care?

Days Gone was an average game and I don't think there'll be too many crying about the fact that it won't get a sequel.

I just hope that whatever Bend does next the game actually feels good to play and character movement isn't as sluggish and clunky as in this game.
The game was dramatically improved with the patches and the ps5 60fps patch as well. I can argue it’s a much better game than what was originally reviewed at launch.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member

Here's what Ross said: "Where I got my data from, I had access to a lot of telemetry, and I could see stuff and when we were at 5 million copies – when we were announced at 5 million copies – the telemetry data was at 5.8 [million]. There are basically resells or shared discs. I was actually using an external website – I think they're offline now – but they were using trophy data and it lined up with our internal telemetry data so for me, it's like, 'good enough.'"

Ross then said that when leaving Sony, you don't necessarily get final numbers for a game's sales. Ross also said as a creative director, he didn't have access to the complete and official Sony numbers.

"I think [Gamestat] still has the data archived," Ross continued. "Based off the 8 million mark, it matched our telemetry and so I'm like, 'good enough.' So maybe it was 7.7 [million]-ish, maybe it was 8.2 [million]-ish, I don't know."
 
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On Demand

Member
Are there any other sites like gamestat?

Every time there's data available about games it never seems to last long.
 
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