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Days Gone Director John Garvin Says Metacritic Score Is Everything to Sony

Panajev2001a

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On the other hand, there's evidence Sony might actually be looking for both outstanding critical acclaim and commercial success nowadays.
Followed with GR2 discussion. The title is a bit hyperbolic as it places the emphasis only on metacritic score while the article highlights their successful franchise need to have great sales too.

Still, this is normal when the company is big and the MBA’s take over and need KPI’s to make pretty presentations / dashboard. It gives reviewers a bit too much power as game design needs also to appease their biases, but without generating a customer backlash that would hurt sales.
 

Panajev2001a

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Didnt some reviewers dock a point just for the "I hope you ride me as often as your bike" wedding vow stuff?
Yeah, not sure what kind of intimacy they expect and for people not to say naughty things to each other, but that is the reviewer’s problem.

If big big publishers like Sony and others’s captivating with Metacritics keeps a hold on game design hope for the smaller and quirkier games must be put on indies.

The problem is that people seem self harmingly super ready not to accept an indie title above $39 (balking at even that price) which means that the ability of the studio to attract capital would be seriously hampered by the difficulty in ensuring a high potential reward too. We are helping big publishers to consolidate their power in such an environment and then wondering why these publishers become less creative and daring 🤷‍♂️.
 
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ToadMan

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Good

Too many publishers happy with broken games that get fixed down the line

Days Gone may have gotten much better after patching but it should have been that way day one

I dont think the DG scores were down to the bugs although they're not good.

I say that because Jeff Ross said they'd got pre-release indicative reviews done, and they were forecasting a 70 well before release - those reviews would have been done on the assumption it was bug free at release (and not in a woke bubble either if that's part of it).

Even today with all the bugs fixed it's a 70 game... It just wasn't and isn't a great game worthy of the budget.
 

Bo_Hazem

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I dont think the DG scores were down to the bugs although they're not good.

I say that because Jeff Ross said they'd got pre-release indicative reviews done, and they were forecasting a 70 well before release - those reviews would have been done on the assumption it was bug free at release (and not in a woke bubble either if that's part of it).

Even today with all the bugs fixed it's a 70 game... It just wasn't and isn't a great game worthy of the budget.

how dare you picard GIF
 
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Well either Sony holds its studios to a somewhat objective standard such as critic scores, OR it just pays for good scores, in which case it wouldn't make any sense to punish your dev for receiving bad ones. Can't be both at the same time. I see no issue whatsoever in Sony demanding good critical reviews for their games. What else should they do? Ask the octopus oracle if a pitch for a sequel goes through or not?
 
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Bo_Hazem

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I completed it just recently too!

What can I say? Enough zombie games already that followed the same mold so there's Zombie fatigue, and too long a game to support just one style of gameplay that doesn't evolve 🤷‍♂️

I had zombie fatigue since RE2 on PS1, my very first zombie game. Then played some with friends on COD, and TLOU, then Dying Light, Days Gone, and TLOU2. Yeah, I can have a break from zombie games, even though I rate this game as 10/10 and 88 metacritic would be fair.
 

McCheese

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If big big publishers like Sony and others’s captivating with Metacritics keeps a hold on game design hope for the smaller and quirkier games must be put on indies.

Is it really metacritic's fault? they just aggregate the review scores from around the web/press; which is not really any different from if someone at Sony went around and collected them up themselves.

I think the actual problem is that gaming journalism doesn't represent the wide spectrum of interests of the actual gaming public. If you look at where these (English) reviews are coming from, it's super heavily concentrated in both California (west-coast, USA) and Brighton (here in the UK). Both of which are about as far left-learning as you can get within their respective countries. So you have a situation where the vast majority of reviews are written by this very small sub-set of ultra-liberal people.

And due to their "everyone except us is a nazi" mindset, they are very good at gate-keeping to keep it this way. e.g. the 48% of the population who voted Trump could not get a job reviewing games at most of these places in a million years, but even pro-gun supporters would find themselves alienated in the industry, which is weird considering the most popular game genre (by far) are shooting titles.

I think this is also why you see the upsurge of retrogaming news/articles/reviews, as this is where everyone else who likes videogames goes now.
 
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Negotiator101

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Yeah cos metacritic is always right, what an absolute joke PS management is. Look at this, Driveclub, Sea of theives all improved massively from the initial launch. This just shows how disconnected Jim Ryan is if he's using Metacritic as a yardstick for quality 😅
 
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Yoboman

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I dont think the DG scores were down to the bugs although they're not good.

I say that because Jeff Ross said they'd got pre-release indicative reviews done, and they were forecasting a 70 well before release - those reviews would have been done on the assumption it was bug free at release (and not in a woke bubble either if that's part of it).

Even today with all the bugs fixed it's a 70 game... It just wasn't and isn't a great game worthy of the budget.
Maybe you’re right

I think if it was bug free it probably would have slipped into the 80s
 
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LMJ

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So, do we have complete proof that the sequel HAS been canceled this time?...

Becaaaaaause it sounds like this article is referencing the SAME davidjaffe davidjaffe interview where the designer said the game was STILL in development when he was there, (inhales) an interview based off of an article by shit stirrer Scherier which states that his "sources" said the game was canceled, despite the fact that certain facts of the article were incorrect based on Jaffe ACTUALLY interviewing the creator (inhales even deeper) forcing Mr asshat Scheier to do a corrective article defending his original article and doubling down like the scummy prick he is...thus making the whole thing...a rumor?

Season 20 Episode 3 GIF by The Simpsons
 
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This is feeding reviewers' god complex in the worst way possible.
I understand why a publisher would pay close attention and rely on score aggregator sites but this is too much.

And like someone else in this thread said: then where is our Bloodborne sequel?
 

thesplitsubject

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Can we stop with this Days Gone director? Days gone was the definition of mediocre- I’m glad Sony moved off it and on to other titles. They already have the zombie apocalypse narrative covered.
 

ShirAhava

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Sony makes games for the type of people who work at IGN and like it think about how depressing that is and the type of person you'd have to be
 
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Kerotan

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I didn't buy the game until like half a year after launch when most of the problems were fixed, but there's no way it deserves a 71 in its current state. Reviewers don't go back to update their reviews, though.
Even in its launch state it deserved an 80. A lot of the woke reviewers hit the game hard for "disrespecting" women.
 
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Kokoloko85

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It is for alot of publishers...? bad reviewed games = no sales, no success, no future.
Unless its COD, FIFA, Madden etc
 
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Shut0wen

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Days Gone is currently at 71% on Metacritics and that doesn't seem to be enough for Sony



The news that a pitch for Days Gone 2 had been rejected by Sony prompted David Jaffe, the game designer known for creating God of War and Twisted Metal, to host video interviews with Days Gone directors on his YouTube channel.
Last week he had Jeff Ross, while yesterday it was John Garvin's turn (who, by the way, was also the game's writer).

Garvin revealed to have left Sony Bend merely days after the game's release in April 2019. When Jaffe asked him how he took the first wave of Days Gone reviews, Garvin replied:
"I took it hard, to be honest, because, again...This is just the reality of Sony, Metacritic score is everything.
If you're the creative director on a franchise and your game is coming out to a 70, you're not going to be the creative director on that franchise for very long"

Indeed, Sony has had a string of critically acclaimed game releases with the likes of Uncharted, The Last of Us, Horizon Zero Dawn, God of War, Marvel's Spider-Man, Dreams, and most recently Ghost of Tsushima.

On the other hand, there's evidence Sony might actually be looking for both outstanding critical acclaim and commercial success nowadays.
For example, Japan Studio's Gravity Rush 2 had an average Metacritic score of 80 but didn't really sell well and that was the last game ever made by Team Gravity.
Japan Studio as a whole was essentially shut down and will now focus on supporting Asobi Team, the makers of Astro Bot Rescue Mission and Astro's Playroom, as confirmed by Sony earlier this month.

Days Gone may not have had high critical acclaim, but it did sell pretty well and managed to find a dedicated fanbase.
That's demonstrated by the Change.org petition asking Sony to greenlight a sequel; it already got over 32.6K signatures and even Jeff Ross himself asked his Twitter followers to participate while tagging SIE Worldwide Studio head Hermen Hulst.

Days Gone is about to launch on PC in a month from now. Perhaps a successful launch on this platform could persuade Sony to eventually develop another installment, thus satisfying everyone eager for a follow-up on that story cliffhanger.

Man its depressing knowing that games that gets under 80 and more then 60 is classed as an average game, if it was a movie it has a high chance of getting nominated an oscar, just makes the whole metric completely pointless, also aee sony going off fan reviews or "professional reviewers" pretty shit of sony getting rid of a game directors for going off metacritic instead of fan appreciation and sales
 

TheCockatrice

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That is the dumbest shit ever, but not news. This is why I'll always say, we need to fuck the critics, we need to rely less on them, stop giving garbage sites clicks, stop promoting them but you're all too stupid to do it anyway. The things you complain about, the problem with the industry right now being critics and how devs won;'t get bonuses and whatnot because some garbage site like eurogamer decided not to like the game is why this cycle will never end unless you end it. I stopped years ago relying on this shit. Go find yourself a youtuber or something if you care that much about the opinion of some random person rather than making your own judgement of the game. Hell, theres so many ways you can see a game, walkthroghts, streamers, etc. that I just don;t see why you ppl still click on that 9/10 IGN site or whatever else.
 
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ToadMan

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So, do we have complete proof that the sequel HAS been canceled this time?...

Becaaaaaause it sounds like this article is referencing the SAME davidjaffe davidjaffe interview where the designer said the game was STILL in development when he was there, (inhales) an interview based off of an article by shit stirrer Scherier which states that his "sources" said the game was canceled, despite the fact that certain facts of the article were incorrect based on Jaffe ACTUALLY interviewing the creator (inhales even deeper) forcing Mr asshat Scheier to do a corrective article defending his original article and doubling down like the scummy prick he is...thus making the whole thing...a rumor?

Season 20 Episode 3 GIF by The Simpsons

I think there is too much stock being put in the word “cancelled”.

If today Bend/Sony were to say there is not a single person working on the game that doesn’t mean there won’t be a DG 2 one day. They’re never gonna say it’s “cancelled” and they’ll never say there won’t ever be a sequel. They may have halted work and switched to other things but whatever plans they may have had for DG2 still exists somewhere in hibernation. They may be revisited one day or they may not but the option is always there.

I think it’s a mistake to be too dogmatic about the status of this project or any for that matter.
 

N30RYU

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I don't think that saying that the metacritic score is everything to sony is accurate... if you score a 70 and you can show to sony that you sold like another franchise IP with higher score... I don't think sony would kill the franchise just for the score.... another thing is that the score followed a bad reception and low sales.
 
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trikster40

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You know what’s probably more important? How much did the game ost to make, how many copies did it sell, and how much did they profit off of the game.

Guess what? Metactitic has an impact on sales and profits, so of course they’re concerned about it.
 

MadPanda

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I may be wrong but I think good/great scores correlate to good/great sales. When it comes to normal size to big games that have a relatively decent marketing budget, anyway, I'd say, since many low budget games can get lost amidst all the noise even if they score very well. Go to metacritic, for instance PS4 titles https://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/ps4/filtered?sort=desc and pick any game scored 80 or higher, and I think you'll find almost all of those games made their money back and then some.

But there are plenty of games which scored low but are beloved by gamers. Days Gone is one of them, Sea of Thieves another and there are many others.

I've enjoyed days gone a lot so I'm really sad for that game.
 
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sublimit

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You have to love these sensationalist titles. As if Sony is the only company that cares about metacritic and MS,Nintendo or any other publisher don't care about it.
But hey whatever crap makes Sony look as an evil corporation is a thread worth making right?👍👍👍🤣
 

yurinka

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Yes, all publishers would like to have top critical and sales reception.

And yes, this is a crappy sensationalistic quote put out of context.

I think Garvin exaggerated a bit there. I'm sure there are multiple factors why Sony would fund a sequel or not.
Yes, he exaggerated that reply. And it's out of context. Watching the full interview, he mentions that since these AAA get so expensive they also have to make sure it generates enough money to make them sustainable, etc. and that there are more things in the mix.

In any case, he said he left a few days after releasing DG1 and that he built the IP and made some work for possible future installments of the franchise but that he has no info about what Bend pitched or has been working on after he left. And he left just after releasing DG1, they still didn't pitch DG2 back then so if not greenlighted he doesn't know the reasons Sony had to reject the DG2 pitch in case they rejected it. And specially because he was in the creative part of the game, not in the business or production part or it.

I didn't buy the game until like half a year after launch when most of the problems were fixed, but there's no way it deserves a 71 in its current state. Reviewers don't go back to update their reviews, though.
Sure, in the current state deserves to be at least over 80, but at launch, even after the day one patch it had many issues. And reviews were made with code previous to this day one patch so the code was even worse. The game was already delayed and its budget ended being way bigger than originally planned, but I think 6 months of extra polish, optimizations, tweaks and fixes would have highlly improved its MC.
 
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FatCamperBear

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Is beyond me how that site is so relevant to the industry and gaming community, literally anyone can create an account without any special requirements and rate and review a game that probably didn’t even touched in his life, also it’s really easy to create massive fake accounts in there so it cannot be and indicative of the reception of your game, you often can find some weird differences with the steam store reviews.
I really hope this is not true.
 
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Shifty1897

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The game sold really well, it was the 19th best selling game of 2019 in the US and the best selling Sony first party game of 2019. Cancelling a sequel to an IP that showed promise is so misguided. This is more Jim Ryan BS.
 
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ToadMan

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this is not true though is it... if this is all sony care about then get ready for constant run of the mill open world games and thrid person action with amazing production value and generic gameplay

Um. We are talking about DG2 not being produced - that rather suggests your prediction is backwards doesn’t it ...
 

Heylon

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Those fucking woke media reviews are just fucking biased dilettante those days, days gone is at least on par with recent assassin's creed games and deserve 80+ score. Just because the protagonist is a while straight male and his wife pokes sassy jokes, they gave it a 7 out of 10 for political correctness. Yet it was from those same fuckers a polarized game like TLOU 2 received universal 10/10s.

I'd rather watch some youtuber reviews than check the metacritics.
I wholeheartedly agree.
 

e&e

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Is it really metacritic's fault? they just aggregate the review scores from around the web/press; which is not really any different from if someone at Sony went around and collected them up themselves.

I think the actual problem is that gaming journalism doesn't represent the wide spectrum of interests of the actual gaming public. If you look at where these (English) reviews are coming from, it's super heavily concentrated in both California (west-coast, USA) and Brighton (here in the UK). Both of which are about as far left-learning as you can get within their respective countries. So you have a situation where the vast majority of reviews are written by this very small sub-set of ultra-liberal people.

And due to their "everyone except us is a nazi" mindset, they are very good at gate-keeping to keep it this way. e.g. the 48% of the population who voted Trump could not get a job reviewing games at most of these places in a million years, but even pro-gun supporters would find themselves alienated in the industry, which is weird considering the most popular game genre (by far) are shooting titles.

I think this is also why you see the upsurge of retrogaming news/articles/reviews, as this is where everyone else who likes videogames goes now.
Damn, even Politics has a play now in these threads, and not gaming politics. We are discussing Sony’s focus and then I read Trump, like WTF?
 

BattleScar

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It's downright laughable publishers seriously go off of metacritic. I feel very sorry for their employees. It's far from a fair, accurate or unbias measure of quality. Not all reviews are created the same and not every person's opinion is worth hearing.
What may I ask, is a fair and unbiased measure of quality?
Who's views matter more than others? Who gets to decide whose reviews hold more value?
 

vkbest

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This is not sense. They are porting Days Gone to PC, making next Gran Turismo, when GT Sports is below 80 and the most Sony Japan titles are over 80 and they closed it.
 

Fake

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Metacritic > fanboys review. ALLWAYS.

Joke of the year.

Go make some research about games that get a good metacritic score, but sold nothing. Now imagine Nintendo doing such a stupid move.

Gamers indeed can be stupid sometimes.
 
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Thirty7ven

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Dude is asking for millions of people to take a leap of faith on a full priced game that got average reviews upon release. You need to be a successful franchise already, if that’s what you want.
 

01011001

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and then you have people here saying "who cares about metacritic? lol nobody read reviews anymore" when you hear some publisher has a certain metascore target

well, noone with a working brain should care about Metacritic
 
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Fake

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One day will come when instead of looking at the Steam/Playstation Store/Xbox Store people will instead shoping games at Metacritic.
 

Hugare

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death stranding has a metascore of 82 now.
thats why sony and kojima relation have turned cold?

this 'metascore is everything' sony, means we wont get 2nd chance games like nier automata? :messenger_astonished: 🤞
Thats a 11 points difference from Days Gone

Do you think that its a small gap?
 
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