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Days Gone Director John Garvin Says Metacritic Score Is Everything to Sony

Clear

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The thing is...games aren't cheap. They are $60 (now $70) regardless of how good or bad they are. So yeah...if I'm about to pay full price for a game day 1, you better believe anything below an 8 is trash.

If you think games aren't cheap to buy, you should appreciate that tens if not hundreds of millions in investment is a huge responsibility that needs to be carefully considered no matter how big the corporation funding it.

With sequels I assume most people would like continuity, in the sense that the same creative team gets to improve on what they did first time around. Now consider how that's impacted when "success" can only get judged years after release.

Games are made by people, and people need to get paid for their time and labour. So if you wait months for a sale, the people paying their wages will have had all that time to decide whether to put them to work on another, potentially profitable project, or to lay them off.

This is why launch window sales matter so much. There's a window of opportunity that doesn't last forever.
 
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I fixed that modern review scale for you:

I guess the difference is movie employees dont seem as vocal as gaming employees.
They're used to it, but they often mention a movie/series being bombed by reviewers, yet ending up a success with the public.
User score on MC is a better metric than the critic score.
I prefer it when they align, because I can assume that it wasn't too politicized in how people react to the thing.
If one cannot afford it genuinely it is another issue, but still understand that money is not a problem only to you but to the developers and publishers behind that game too.
Often the people complaining that others do whatever "only for the money" actually mean they either don't have the money or they want to keep their money, so give them stuff for free.
 

mr.dilya

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If you think games aren't cheap to buy, you should appreciate that tens if not hundreds of millions in investment is a huge responsibility that needs to be carefully considered no matter how big the corporation funding it.

With sequels I assume most people would like continuity, in the sense that the same creative team gets to improve on what they did first time around. Now consider how that's impacted when "success" can only get judged years after release.

Games are made by people, and people need to get paid for their time and labour. So if you wait months for a sale, the people paying their wages will have had all that time to decide whether to put them to work on another, potentially profitable project, or to lay them off.

This is why launch window sales matter so much. There's a window of opportunity that doesn't last forever.

They only deserve to get paid what consumers are willing to pay.

I understand why Sony held back on a sequel to Days Gone....they already have the Last of Us as their main IP and DG is basically a value-brand imitation of that game.

I'm not a big fan of these devs getting on twitter and complaining about the lack of support for their projects. Why would I take a risk and pay full price for a game that was rated a 7? I can spend my money on something else and take a chance on that game later on when it's on a discount, if I'm really interested. That's common sense.
 
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KingT731

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The thing is...games aren't cheap. They are $60 (now $70) regardless of how good or bad they are. So yeah...if I'm about to pay full price for a game day 1, you better believe anything below an 8 is trash.
Gaming has never been 'cheap' though. It hasn't been until recently that we have this crusade against buying games or complaining about how others can't afford them.

Edit:
Even just going back to the PS1/N64 era PS1 games were 50 and N64 games were 60+ and adjusted for inflation you're at around 85-105 USD
 
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Clear

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They only deserve to get paid what consumers are willing to pay.

I understand why Sony held back on a sequel to Days Gone....they already have the Last of Us as their main IP and DG is basically a value-brand imitation of that game.

I'm not a big fan of these devs getting on twitter and complaining about the lack of support for their projects. Why would I take a risk and pay full price for a game that was rated a 7? I can spend my money on something else and take a chance on that game later on when it's on a discount, if I'm really interested. That's common sense.

Workers deserve fair pay and job security. And they are consumers too.

Nothing Garvin said was remotely wrong ort controversial, its just straight truth. That its being treated as such is just testament to sheer self-absorption of many "gamers" who seem to labouring under the false assumption that this is a one-way street where their desires must be catered to regardless of how little they are willing to invest into getting the outcome they desire.

The world doesn't work like that. You don't get first-class service when you piss and moan about paying second-rate prices.
 
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Panajev2001a

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Gaming has never been 'cheap' though. It hasn't been until recently that we have this crusade against buying games or complaining about how others can't afford them.
I always tend to have a bit of mistrust when the complaining on behalf of others escalates into an incessant crusade (it is mostly about plugging another product).
 
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mr.dilya

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Gaming has never been 'cheap' though. It hasn't been until recently that we have this crusade against buying games or complaining about how others can't afford them.

I don't think affordability is the issue. People are spending money on the things they WANT via perceived value.

In any other industry Days Gone, which is essentially a Last of Us KNOCK OFF would never be priced the same as the ORIGINAL. But the videogame industry is different. For some reason developers think they are owed money by gamers simply because they made something. It doesn't work that way.
 

mr.dilya

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Workers deserve fair pay and job security. And they are consumers too.

Nothing Garvin said was remotely wrong ort controversial, its just straight truth. That its being treated as such is just testament to sheer self-absorption of many "gamers" who seem to labouring under the false assumption that this is a one-way street where their desires must be catered to regardless of how little they are willing to invest into getting the outcome they desire.

The world doesn't work like that. You don't get first-class service when you piss and moan about paying second-rate prices.

What he said was partly true. But it seemed like sour grapes. "Support us if you want us to keep making games." No....I'll support you if I think you have something worth supporting.

Days Gone was NEVER a game worth full price.
 

Panajev2001a

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What he said was partly true. But it seemed like sour grapes. "Support us if you want us to keep making games." No....I'll support you if I think you have something worth supporting.

Days Gone was NEVER a game worth full price.
That is fine, I have nothing against that except we differ in opinions about the game. I would have a bit of an issue if you were amongst those shouting “we want DG2! Why don’t you give us a sequel to DG Sony?!?”… his point was aimed at that IMHO.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
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Workers deserve fair pay and job security. And they are consumers too.

Nothing Garvin said was remotely wrong ort controversial, its just straight truth. That its being treated as such is just testament to sheer self-absorption of many "gamers" who seem to labouring under the false assumption that this is a one-way street where their desires must be catered to regardless of how little they are willing to invest into getting the outcome they desire.

The world doesn't work like that. You don't get first-class service when you piss and moan about paying second-rate prices.
Super well said!
 

mr.dilya

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That is fine, I have nothing against that except we differ in opinions about the game. I would have a bit of an issue if you were amongst those shouting “we want DG2! Why don’t you give us a sequel to DG Sony?!?”… his point was aimed at that IMHO.

Nah those people are idiots too. They are just in it for the drama.

But developers are supposed to be the professionals here. Crying on twitter and to so-called game journalists is not a good look.
 
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In any other industry Days Gone, which is essentially a Last of Us KNOCK OFF would never be priced the same as the ORIGINAL. But the videogame industry is different. For some reason developers think they are owed money by gamers simply because they made something. It doesn't work that way.
Are you so sure? Most movies are knockoffs these days,when they aren't downright reshoot of a movie based on an old book... And when they hit the theatre/streaming services they aren't any cheaper than the others.

This and if days gone is a TLoU knockoff everything that has zombie like enemies is a knockoff of Zombie Zombie on the zx spectrum... I played both TLoU and days gone, they don't feel the same at all.
 
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I don't think affordability is the issue. People are spending money on the things they WANT via perceived value.

In any other industry Days Gone, which is essentially a Last of Us KNOCK OFF would never be priced the same as the ORIGINAL. But the videogame industry is different. For some reason developers think they are owed money by gamers simply because they made something. It doesn't work that way.
Are you so sure? Most movies are knockoffs these days,when they aren't downright reshoot of a movie based on an old book... And when they hit the theatre/streaming services they aren't any cheaper than the others.

This and if days gone is a TLoU knockoff everything that has zombie like enemies is a knockoff of Zombie Zombie on the zx spectrum... I played both TLoU and days gone, they don't feel the same at all.
I agree with both your points.

Gaming is a weird thing where most full budget games are priced the same. But when it comes to indie games (let's say anything $30 or cheaper), you get all kinds of weird prices.

Yet when you buy CDs, DVDs or BR, each album or movie can be whatever price it wants +/- $1-10 vs everything else. Why is this CD $14.99 back in the day, but this person is $15.99 and that one $16.99?

TV, film, gaming are often pretty repetitive themes. Only so many ideas you can have, although it does the creators no service for new ideas when they repeat the same plot. I'm sure they could make new ideas but stick with tried and true stuff.

For example, why is it in RPGs you start out as traditional D&D kinds of characters and kill goblins, skeletons and the King Dragon? Why not make a game you're an evil (or misunderstood lich) and plot is you summon skeletons and undead monsters as a new twist? I'm no writer, who knows.
 

ZywyPL

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They only deserve to get paid what consumers are willing to pay.

I don't think affordability is the issue. People are spending money on the things they WANT via perceived value.

A.k.a. voting with your wallet. Like I said in some other thread, the ongoing gen's price tag will single-handedly kill many franchises and even studios. And IMO it's a good thing people are (finally) showing the publishers they can't ask one unified price for whatever they throw at us. But I see the publishers point of view tho, because even if many people will wait for sales to get the games for 30/40/50€, there will still be a crowd that will gladly pay the full price or eve deluxe editions, which means much more profit than if the game would've launch with a lower price already.
 

Clear

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But developers are supposed to be the professionals here. Crying on twitter and to so-called game journalists is not a good look.

If Metacritic scores are super-important then it stands to reason the enthusiast media holds an inordinate degree of influence, and when so many of them have an activist approach and will mark down games for not bending the knee to their their "progressive" agenda -like having another gruff white male lead- then we have a real problem for creatives.
 

Reality Czar

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But developers are supposed to be the professionals here. Crying on twitter and to so-called game journalists is not a good look.
If someone's job is making games, they have every right to complain about their work. Also not going to care if a cameraman wants to complain about his job, or a cook wants to complain about his job.

The only thing that is "not a good look" for a dev is if the game they make is bad. I could give a shit what they think off the job.
 
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If someone's job is making games, they have every right to complain about their work. Also not going to care if a cameraman wants to complain about his job, or a cook wants to complain about his job.

The only thing that is "not a good look" for a dev is if the game they make is bad. I could give a shit what they think off the job.
Maybe gaming is an industry where publicly complaining is tolerated and doesn't affect employment opportunities, but making a stink in most jobs will get you nowhere and you'll be outcasted as someone to avoid in my industry.

That's why anyone who has a linkedin account will notice you never see any bad posts. People post positive news or politically correct articles. There's a certain level of professionalism people conduct. And gaming seems like one where it's the wild west of people doing and saying what they want on social media, especially Twitter, which seems like every tech person's best friend.

I don't see people I know working at Coke or Pepsi or any other company I know people (including my own) posting weird shit on social media or complaining about the company or bosses or whatever.

The industry is only so big and people rotate companies and knows each other. And people ask around. I get former coworkers calling me asking if I know person A or B because they worked at my company but they are going after a job elsewhere where I know someone.
 

MrSarcastic

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The thing is...games aren't cheap. They are $60 (now $70) regardless of how good or bad they are. So yeah...if I'm about to pay full price for a game day 1, you better believe anything below an 8 is trash.
You prove my point. But I understand, the issue is that conversations are binary: A game can only be garbage or amazing no room for nuance.
 
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For example, why is it in RPGs you start out as traditional D&D kinds of characters and kill goblins, skeletons and the King Dragon? Why not make a game you're an evil (or misunderstood lich) and plot is you summon skeletons and undead monsters as a new twist? I'm no writer, who knows.
Not to be a troll, I agree with what you said and in a sense if you want different stories or different enough ways to tell them. You need to look outside Hollywood, even outside the US if you have the occasion. I'm not saying that they are any better, but it's refreshing.

Also, what you described sounds an awful lot like Dungeon Master.
 
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BlackTron

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Now imagine if gaming "journalists" didn't overscore/overhype some Sony exclusives?... If we deduct from Metacritic a few perfect scores some sites always seem to give to Sony exclusives, would Sony continue making sequels to their biggest games?

Happens with Nintendo too, in many cases it will be even worse than the overhyped Sony game.
 

KyoZz

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Days Gone actor says fans should ‘buy the game on PC’ if they want Days Gone 2​

Asking Witwer how those fans could best show Sony that a sequel would be “worth it”:
“I’d say buy the game on PC!” he said. “Nothing talks more than sales.”

Witwer didn’t speak much more about the ill-fated sequel. One user asked if he could talk about the rumored Days Gone 2 pitch that Sony denied and Witwer just responded with “Yeah.. not really.” coupled with a smiley face.
Another asked what he’d like to see in a possible second game and he replied vaguely with, “Oh, ya know!”