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DCEU frustrates me because it could've been so good

RCU005

Member
I have always said this when it comes to DCEU vs MCU: DC movies portrays the strength of the superhero much better by doing better effects or camera tricks. I feel like in many MCU movies, really super powerful heroes look like guys in cosplay fighting, instead of making them look much powerful than the others. Like you see Captain Marvel fight, and it's just a choreography, but if you watch The Man of Steel,, they do make it look like to super powerful beings are fighting, not just pretending to fight.

That alone makes DCEU much better, but then there's everything else, which makes the DCEU suck.

The worst enemy DCEU has is WB by far. They don't know what to do. They just know they want the same success as MCU but don't even know how to get there. They change plans as much as diapers on a baby (sometimes for the same reason).

IMO, Zack Snyder did a great job with the movies, and the weakness is in the writing (which I don't know if he did write them). Of course you don't want to see a depressed Superman, but we all must admit he has done a great job with the cast, the costumes, and the cinematography in general.

So, the DCEU biggest weakness has been the writing. The Man of Steel was a good m theovie in general. The complaining about Superman destroying the city is the most stupid complain I've seen, and it has affected other superheroes movies for worse. However, I believe it was a good start. They did a great Superman, Henry Cavill did a great job, so there was huge room to improve, and huge potential there.

Here's where things start to go south. By this time, WB wants to become the MCU overnight. Executives most likely told Zack to begin building the universe in order to make a Justice League. Everybody was expecting a Superman sequel, but I don't think anyone was expecting Batman v Superman.

Now, Batman v Superman could've also been a great idea, if they hadn't focused on trying to get to the Justice League overnight! It could've been a great way to introduce Batman, and have his solo movie eventually (which I think that's what Ben Affleck was expecting). After the disappointment that the movie was, which I blame WB more than Zack Snyder, everything was going even further down.

WB started to think that the success of the MCU relied on being funny. So now they started to make changes and tried to make every movie funny, ruining The Suicide Squad in the process.

The worst part of this new change, is that the characters and the actors were chosen with a darker tone in mind. Wonder Woman proved this in 1984. She works better in a darker tone like WWI because it was meant like that. Not the cartoony-like, 70s-80s way of doing Superheroes. Shazam, IMO got butchered. He is literally a guy in a foam costume, and while the movie was entertaining, nothing matches anymore. You cannot have a character with a very light tone, right with a character with a much darker tone.

WB keeps doing a mess. The new Suicide Squad movie looks great, but it will have yet another tone. It wouldn't matter if WB wasn't so fixated in trying to become an MCU. If all the movies were 100% separate from each other, it would be fine.

Then, there the WB animated movies. Most of the time these are great, so why not just make movies based on them? Or have a similar process writing the movies as they do the animated ones?

Everything sucks but it shouldn't! There's a lot of things that can work out, but they don't because of WB. The MCU has had weaker movies like The Hulk, Thor: The Dark World, etc, but they don't just go changing everything because people didn't like them as much. They keep with their plan, and they have very strong movies, and also weak. The DCEU could have been the same. They had many things to make extremely strong movies, even if they still had the weak ones.

What frustrates me the most, is that to me, personally, I love how in Man of Steel, Batman v Superman, Aquaman (which is not entirely different in style) and Wonder Woman is the portray of power of the characters. If you notice, the only fight that did look like a person in a costume fighting was Batman's fight when saving Martha (because he is). When Superman is fighting you really get a sense of power, of someone being very strong and very fast, and not even the MCU has made that as good and satisfying as the DCEU.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Of course you don't want to see a depressed Superman, but we all must admit he has done a great job with the cast, the costumes, and the cinematography in general.

Depressed Superman was just the start. He was basically doing a five-movie Injustice adaptation where Darkseid boomtubes into the Batcave and kills Lois, which leads to the nightmare future where Batman mows down people with a machine gun.
 

GreyHorace

Member
What frustrates me is that Zack Snyder was given free reign to do what he wanted.

I dislike his nihilistic view on superheroes, a genre that is supposed to be a bit silly but inspiring. I'll take any of the MCU films over Snyder's dour and depressing stuff anyday.

The only DCEU films worth a watch for me are Wonder Woman and Shazam!
 

nush

Gold Member
I have always said this when it comes to DCEU vs MCU: DC movies portrays the strength of the superhero much better by doing better effects or camera tricks. I feel like in many MCU movies, really super powerful heroes look like guys in cosplay fighting, instead of making them look much powerful than the others. Like you see Captain Marvel fight, and it's just a choreography, but if you watch The Man of Steel,, they do make it look like to super powerful beings are fighting, not just pretending to fight.

That alone makes DCEU much better, but then there's everything else, which makes the DCEU suck.

The worst enemy DCEU has is WB by far. They don't know what to do. They just know they want the same success as MCU but don't even know how to get there. They change plans as much as diapers on a baby (sometimes for the same reason).

IMO, Zack Snyder did a great job with the movies, and the weakness is in the writing (which I don't know if he did write them). Of course you don't want to see a depressed Superman, but we all must admit he has done a great job with the cast, the costumes, and the cinematography in general.

So, the DCEU biggest weakness has been the writing. The Man of Steel was a good m theovie in general. The complaining about Superman destroying the city is the most stupid complain I've seen, and it has affected other superheroes movies for worse. However, I believe it was a good start. They did a great Superman, Henry Cavill did a great job, so there was huge room to improve, and huge potential there.

Here's where things start to go south. By this time, WB wants to become the MCU overnight. Executives most likely told Zack to begin building the universe in order to make a Justice League. Everybody was expecting a Superman sequel, but I don't think anyone was expecting Batman v Superman.

Now, Batman v Superman could've also been a great idea, if they hadn't focused on trying to get to the Justice League overnight! It could've been a great way to introduce Batman, and have his solo movie eventually (which I think that's what Ben Affleck was expecting). After the disappointment that the movie was, which I blame WB more than Zack Snyder, everything was going even further down.

WB started to think that the success of the MCU relied on being funny. So now they started to make changes and tried to make every movie funny, ruining The Suicide Squad in the process.

The worst part of this new change, is that the characters and the actors were chosen with a darker tone in mind. Wonder Woman proved this in 1984. She works better in a darker tone like WWI because it was meant like that. Not the cartoony-like, 70s-80s way of doing Superheroes. Shazam, IMO got butchered. He is literally a guy in a foam costume, and while the movie was entertaining, nothing matches anymore. You cannot have a character with a very light tone, right with a character with a much darker tone.

WB keeps doing a mess. The new Suicide Squad movie looks great, but it will have yet another tone. It wouldn't matter if WB wasn't so fixated in trying to become an MCU. If all the movies were 100% separate from each other, it would be fine.

Then, there the WB animated movies. Most of the time these are great, so why not just make movies based on them? Or have a similar process writing the movies as they do the animated ones?

Everything sucks but it shouldn't! There's a lot of things that can work out, but they don't because of WB. The MCU has had weaker movies like The Hulk, Thor: The Dark World, etc, but they don't just go changing everything because people didn't like them as much. They keep with their plan, and they have very strong movies, and also weak. The DCEU could have been the same. They had many things to make extremely strong movies, even if they still had the weak ones.

What frustrates me the most, is that to me, personally, I love how in Man of Steel, Batman v Superman, Aquaman (which is not entirely different in style) and Wonder Woman is the portray of power of the characters. If you notice, the only fight that did look like a person in a costume fighting was Batman's fight when saving Martha (because he is). When Superman is fighting you really get a sense of power, of someone being very strong and very fast, and not even the MCU has made that as good and satisfying as the DCEU.
 

FunkMiller

Member
Zack Snyder was utterly the wrong kind of film maker to be in charge of a mainstream cinematic comic book universe. His strengths lie in darker, colder, more adult fare. He would have been perfect to run Justice League Dark, for instance. But Superman? Fucking horrible, horrible choice. Everything stems from that one dreadful decision.
 

GreyHorace

Member
Zack Snyder was utterly the wrong kind of film maker to be in charge of a mainstream cinematic comic book universe. His strengths lie in darker, colder, more adult fare. He would have been perfect to run Justice League Dark, for instance. But Superman? Fucking horrible, horrible choice. Everything stems from that one dreadful decision.
Even his dark adult stuff isn't that good. I still want my money back for watching Sucker Punch in theaters.

And Watchmen? I'm still baffled as to why people think that movie is any good. It's a piss poor adaptation of the graphic novel.
 
Even his dark adult stuff isn't that good. I still want my money back for watching Sucker Punch in theaters.
LOL. That movie was really shite.
And Watchmen? I'm still baffled as to why people think that movie is any good. It's a piss poor adaptation of the graphic novel.
And that's probably the problem. For someone who doesn't know the graphic novel, it's an amazing movie. For you not.

And like I wrote in that other thread, Shazam shits on all of these other movies from a high mountain.
 

FunkMiller

Member
Even his dark adult stuff isn't that good. I still want my money back for watching Sucker Punch in theaters.

And Watchmen? I'm still baffled as to why people think that movie is any good. It's a piss poor adaptation of the graphic novel.

His remake of Dawn Of The Dead is very good. It’s easily his best film. He’s a fairly talented horror movie director with delusions of grandeur. I could see him handling a Constantine or Swamp Thing movie just fine with guidance.

The main problem is his ego far outstrips his actual talent. He’s Michael Bay, when he thinks he’s Chris Nolan. The guy sounds like a solid dude, but he’s limited. A pity no one at WB realised that before it was too late. On the right projects, with someone else in overall control, he’s good.

Watchmen is a surface level reading of the story only. He just doesn’t understand it. Same goes for The Dark Knight Returns.
 
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ManaByte

Gold Member
His remake of Dawn Of The Dead is very good. It’s easily his best film. He’s a fairly talented horror movie director with delusions of grandeur. I could see him handling a Constantine or Swamp Thing movie just fine with guidance.

The main problem is his ego far outstrips his actual talent. He’s Michael Bay, when he thinks he’s Chris Nolan. The guy sounds like a solid dude, but he’s limited. A pity no one at WB realised that before it was too late. On the right projects, with someone else in overall control, he’s good.

Watchmen is a surface level reading of the story only. He just doesn’t understand it. Same goes for The Dark Knight Returns.

His Dawn of the Dead was written by James Gunn. Who made the new Suicide Squad.
 

Jethalal

Banned
What frustrates me is that Zack Snyder was given free reign to do what he wanted.

I dislike his nihilistic view on superheroes, a genre that is supposed to be a bit silly but inspiring. I'll take any of the MCU films over Snyder's dour and depressing stuff anyday.

The only DCEU films worth a watch for me are Wonder Woman and Shazam!
I agree, his take works as an Elseworlds story. This shouldn't have been the main treatment given to the characters who are not like he portrays them to be.
 

GreyHorace

Member
His remake of Dawn Of The Dead is very good. It’s easily his best film. He’s a fairly talented horror movie director with delusions of grandeur. I could see him handling a Constantine or Swamp Thing movie just fine with guidance.
I actually liked that movie. And I'm not a fan of zombie flicks.

The main problem is his ego far outstrips his actual talent. He’s Michael Bay, when he thinks he’s Chris Nolan. The guy sounds like a solid dude, but he’s limited. A pity no one at WB realised that before it was too late. On the right projects, with someone else in overall control, he’s good.
This is the perfect description of what Zack Snyder is. He's trying so hard to be an auteur when his strengths lie in making Michael Bay action schlock.

You only know a director's real talent when they're allowed to do the big budget movie of their dreams. For Nolan, it was Inception. For Snyder, that was Sucker Punch. Guess which movie was better received?

Watchmen is a surface level reading of the story only. He just doesn’t understand it. Same goes for The Dark Knight Returns.
Reading his interviews while making the film, you could tell this was the case. All he could talk about was how the comic was so dark and gritty, while completely missing the psychological depth and nuance of Alan Moore's work.
 
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Jethalal

Banned
To Snyder Fans, I recommend the animated r-rated movie Justice League Dark: Apokolips War. Easily the most Snyder-esque movie that snyder never made.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
I actually liked that movie. And I'm not a fan of zombie flicks.


This is the perfect description of what Zack Snyder is. He's trying so hard to be an auteur when his strengths lie in making Michael Bay action schlock.

You only know a director's real talent when they're allowed to do the big budget movie of their dreams. For Nolan, it was Inception. For Snyder, that was Sucker Punch. Guess which movie was better received?


Reading his interviews while making the film, you could tell this was the case. All he could talk about was how the comic was so dark and gritty, while completely missing the psychological depth and nuance of Alan Moore's work.

Sucker Punch took 11 tries to get rid of the NC-17 the MPAA slapped it with. ELEVEN.
 
There isn't a single DCEU movie I like.

The only one I may enjoy is Shazam! and even that I'm unsure about.

Man of Steel was horrendous and Batman vs Superman managed to even be worse. How in the fuck is this Superman and Batman?

Do we blame Tim Burton or Christopher Nolan for this dark and gritty DCEU? Thing is the first two Burton Batman movies with Michael Keaton were awesome and the first Nolan Batman movie with Bale was good.

So what happened?

How in the hell do you fuck up beloved DC characters so badly? FFS Superman and Superman 2 with Reeves were among the best superhero movies ever made.

I know MetalAlien MetalAlien will agree with me on this too but even Superman 3 with Richard Pryor was better than any of this new DCEU garbage. Then again I also actually enjoyed Superman 3.

Drunk Superman flipping beer nuts into the mirror.

Even the 80s Supergirl movie was better and more enjoyable. I like how they introduced magic and witches too.

Peter O' Toole in the Phantom Zone. Come at me, bro.

DCEU is a muddy, brown pile of doo doo.

 
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Bolivar687

Banned
Zack Snyder is the finest filmmaker of his generation. I saw Watchmen at a midnight screening, likely not many casual fans who never read the comic, and the entire place erupted in a standing ovation when the credits rolled. The first time watching Man of Steel with my friends, all of us blown away by the Krypton opening, one of us just jumped off the couch and screamed what all of us were thinking, arms spread wide in exasperation:

"Why does the internet hate this movie?"

I truly cannot understand anyone who claims to enjoy comic books and comic book films yet despises Zack Snyder. My brain just can't even begin to process the logic someone would need to hold that kind of opposition in their mind. Whether you agree with the story choices or not, every film he's made is leagues and leagues beyond anything Marvel has produced as a creative work of art. It's hilarious how low budget their projects look compared to MoS and BvS.

No one honestly thinks Snyder's films are bad, they only pretend that they do because of how uncomfortable he makes them and what these movies reveal about themselves. I'm glad you were all exposed for how small a vocal minority you are when WB greenlit the Snyder Cut.
 

slade

Member
I thought the movies were decent enough but what really opened my eyes to the DCEU's missteps were when Marvel launched the Avengers Infinity Wars trailer. That trailer was such a hype moment showing the culmination of a decade worth of movies coming to an endpoint. WB execs tried to fast track to that point. They don't deserve one single ticket sale because of how badly they messed it all up. What's ironic is that the DC animated movies did a much better movie arc starting with The Flashpoint Paradox.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
There isn't a single DCEU movie I like.

The only one I may enjoy is Shazam! and even that I'm unsure about.

Man of Steel was horrendous and Batman vs Superman managed to even be worse. How in the fuck is this Superman and Batman?

Do we blame Tim Burton or Christopher Nolan for this dark and gritty DCEU? Thing is the first two Burton Batman movies with Michael Keaton were awesome and the first Nolan Batman movie with Bale was good.

So what happened?

How in the hell do you fuck up beloved DC characters so badly? FFS Superman and Superman 2 with Reeves were among the best superhero movies ever made.

I know MetalAlien MetalAlien will agree with me on this too but even Superman 3 with Richard Pryor was better than any of this new DCEU garbage. Then again I also actually enjoyed Superman 3.

Drunk Superman flipping beer nuts into the mirror.

Even the 80s Supergirl movie was better and more enjoyable. I like how they introduced magic and witches too.

Peter O' Toole in the Phantom Zone. Come at me, bro.

DCEU is a muddy, brown pile of doo doo.

 

NahaNago

Member
I think the only good thing about snyder and superman is how powerful superman seemed in the movie. Almost felt like a live action dragon ball type fight done right if I remember that corrrectly. Other than that though his stuff is just too dark for regular Superman. Marvel's super hero seems ridiculously weak in comparison except for Captain Marvel. Personally the most recent of the dc movies I've enjoyed the most is suicide squad but that movie also has a ton of problems. Shazam's fake muscle is just weird and it kind of felt like a much older movie. Wonder woman almost started off right but she seemed kind of a little to naive. The dceu is pretty much done for I think. The only way I can see it having any hope is if Flash, Cyborg, and Aquaman's movies hit it out of the park but you have drama with half the cast of the dceu.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
I think the only good thing about snyder and superman is how powerful superman seemed in the movie. Almost felt like a live action dragon ball type fight done right if I remember that corrrectly. Other than that though his stuff is just too dark for regular Superman. Marvel's super hero seems ridiculously weak in comparison except for Captain Marvel. Personally the most recent of the dc movies I've enjoyed the most is suicide squad but that movie also has a ton of problems. Shazam's fake muscle is just weird and it kind of felt like a much older movie. Wonder woman almost started off right but she seemed kind of a little to naive. The dceu is pretty much done for I think. The only way I can see it having any hope is if Flash, Cyborg, and Aquaman's movies hit it out of the park but you have drama with half the cast of the dceu.

The first Aquaman made over $1 billion.
 

DESTROYA

Member
I actually enjoy the movies because I have low expectations, just silly entertainment .
Worst movie was Shazam by far.
 

Imperius

Banned
Zack Snyder is the finest filmmaker of his generation. I saw Watchmen at a midnight screening, likely not many casual fans who never read the comic, and the entire place erupted in a standing ovation when the credits rolled. The first time watching Man of Steel with my friends, all of us blown away by the Krypton opening, one of us just jumped off the couch and screamed what all of us were thinking, arms spread wide in exasperation:

"Why does the internet hate this movie?"

I truly cannot understand anyone who claims to enjoy comic books and comic book films yet despises Zack Snyder. My brain just can't even begin to process the logic someone would need to hold that kind of opposition in their mind. Whether you agree with the story choices or not, every film he's made is leagues and leagues beyond anything Marvel has produced as a creative work of art. It's hilarious how low budget their projects look compared to MoS and BvS.

No one honestly thinks Snyder's films are bad, they only pretend that they do because of how uncomfortable he makes them and what these movies reveal about themselves. I'm glad you were all exposed for how small a vocal minority you are when WB greenlit the Snyder Cut.
I registered to respond to this topic because it's very relevant to me. I was a big fan of the MCU back in the early days of Iron Man and Captain America 2, but I've gone very sour on them to the point that I can't stomach their movies anymore. There's a few reasons for this:
  • The movies are so formulaic and predictable that I can see every story beat coming from a mile away
  • Every movie is packed with the same cheeseball "humor", even from characters like Thor where it doesn't fit at all. When I was younger I enjoyed this kind of humor but as I've matured it's borderline painful for me to listen to.
  • There is no tension, no emotional resonance at all in the movies. The tone of every movie is just "huehuehue"
  • I absolutely loathe Disney as a company, and I'm honest enough to admit this colors my attitude towards their movies
I never saw Batman vs. Superman when it was released in theaters mainly due to the abysmal word of mouth it had. The internet made it sound like it was Battlefield Earth bad. After reading up on the hype surrounding the Snyder cut of Justice League and having my curiosity piqued, I decided to give Batman vs. Superman (Ultimate Cut) a watch last week and much to my surprise... I fucking loved it. I absolutely loved Batman as a disturbed, ruthless badass. I liked the fact that Superman was flawed and had depth instead of being some boring, monotonic ideal. I loved the way that the movie doesn't hold your hand and isn't afraid to challenge the audience, for example with the Knightmare sequence. I loved the visual presentation of the movie; the subdued color palette matched the tone of the movie and was a very welcome change of pace from the nauseating brightly colored visual diarrhea in most comic movies. Every shot was fucking beautiful in 4K HDR. Maybe more than anything, I loved the action. You can actually follow the action and comprehend the fights rather than getting a series of camera cuts that are meant to suggest that fighting is going on. You can literally feel the force behind Superman's attacks, it's just incredible.

It definitely wasn't a perfect movie. The fight at the end with Doomsday feels tacked on and didn't get the set up it should have. There's some other gripes that can be made about the writing and how the story unfolded. But there is so much that is great and novel and refreshing about the movie that those gripes barely register with me.

Reading up on the criticism people have of this movie is very fascinating to me. People love to point out aspects of the writing that are contrived (or that went over their heads in some cases, like the "Martha" scene) and act like this is the only comic movie where the writing takes some liberties. I challenge anyone to name a comic movie where the writing holds up under the same level of scrutiny. The Avengers movies are based on the idea that Thanos thinks the world is running out of resources so he collects magic stones with unlimited power to create more resources kill half the people. I do think there was room for improvement in the BvS writing, but the internet's hive-mind decision to dogpile the movie is very interesting to me. Could the theatrical version have really been that much worse than the version I saw? Maybe, but I think there's more to it than that. There's definitely a contingent of fans who are butthurt by Snyder's portrayal of Batman and Superman and unable to look beyond that. I also think that after 20+ MCU movies, people are essentially programmed to expect the same shit from their comic movies and watching this movie that breaks the mold in so many ways is too much for people to handle. Evidence of this is that Aquaman got a positive reception and that movie is literally a copy and paste of the MCU formula.

Anyway, I'm clearly very late to the party here but I am now eagerly awaiting the Snyder cut of Justice League, I suspect it'll be the last comic movie I enjoy for quite some time given that the market is clearly converging toward more MCU-style bullshit.
 

NahaNago

Member
The first Aquaman made over $1 billion.
I'm just talking about it's sequel. The dceu was pretty much put on hiatus cause of wonder woman and covid so the original momentum has been lost. The latest wonder woman movie kinda further slowed down that momentum. Plus now we have the Amber Heard drama with Jonny Depp mucking up the scene around aquaman. With all of this and the aquaman 2 movie not release supposedly until 2022 I can see how this movie could have some trouble. Now hopefully this Snyder cut reignites the hype for the dceu.


edit: aquaman though enjoyable was at the same time forgettable.
 
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ManaByte

Gold Member
I'm just talking about it's sequel. The dceu was pretty much put on hiatus cause of wonder woman and covid so the original momentum has been lost. The latest wonder woman movie kinda further slowed down that momentum. Plus now we have the Amber Heard drama with Jonny Depp mucking up the scene around aquaman. With all of this and the aquaman 2 movie not release supposedly until 2022 I can see how this movie could have some trouble. Now hopefully this Snyder cut reignites the hype for the dceu.

The Suicide Squad comes out August 6th and the people who saw the test screening say it's awesome (with a bonkers villain I can't believe they let James Gunn do).
 

T8SC

Member
The sooner DC & Marvel fuck off, the better. Then we can have a bit more variety instead of "Geek/Outcast gets super powers, some bad person also just happens to get super powers, both end up fighting for some bullshit reason, hero wins and probably gets a girl along the way" ... followed by the sequel which tries to be "deeper" and then a 3rd which is a trainwreck.

Let them burn.
 

NahaNago

Member
well that's interesting. Would make a good boss fight for those guys since they all seem like ground level fighters. I kind of feel like tentacle monsters have been done t death though.



edit: I honestly just watched the kid version of that on Netflix it's called We Can Be Heroes. Alien Tentacle monsters defeat the heroes. and the kids save the day
 
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What frustrates me is that Zack Snyder was given free reign to do what he wanted.

I dislike his nihilistic view on superheroes, a genre that is supposed to be a bit silly but inspiring. I'll take any of the MCU films over Snyder's dour and depressing stuff anyday.

The only DCEU films worth a watch for me are Wonder Woman and Shazam!

No, he wasn't. Not even on MoS, Nolan helped him curb some of his stylistic choices there like his love of slow-mo. Then with BvS it's very clear how much he wasn't allowed to do, heck just watch the Ultimate cut for proof, not to mention being forced to start a cinematic universe with the film... which was never his plan. Some of us actually remember when Snyder told us the next Man of Steel had a list of villains he wanted to use including Metallo and Bizarro Superman, the idea of including Batman and making that the focal point wasn't his, it was forced on him, just like the montage of advertisements for the other films was forced on him. Nevermind what happened with Justice League.
 
Just imagine if they had made a movie about the infinite crises or my fave, darkest night, instead of trying to copy Marvel with a Thanosesque event for JLA.

I hate DC has tried and failed to copy Marvel for so long. Their nonstandard movies, Shazam and Aquaman, were the most watchable.
 
Just imagine if they had made a movie about the infinite crises or my fave, darkest night, instead of trying to copy Marvel with a Thanosesque event for JLA.

I hate DC has tried and failed to copy Marvel for so long. Their nonstandard movies, Shazam and Aquaman, were the most watchable.

This usual tired "they're copying my MCU" bs. Sorry, but Iron Man wouldn't have been a success had it not had the blueprint of Batman Begins to work off of, with Avengers also copying heavily from The Dark Knight (and weirdly enough Transformers: Dark of the Moon???). There's nothing all that original about the MCU, people like to talk about it having a connected film universe but we've had that before (Alien/Blade Runner/Soldier), here actually https://screenrant.com/movie-universes-before-mcu/

Nevermind that these are all based on comics and we know DC was the originators there. Even weirder is you guys all seem to think Shazam and Aquaman are the best DC movies even though... they feel the most like MCU films?
 

Imperius

Banned
Just imagine if they had made a movie about the infinite crises or my fave, darkest night, instead of trying to copy Marvel with a Thanosesque event for JLA.

I hate DC has tried and failed to copy Marvel for so long. Their nonstandard movies, Shazam and Aquaman, were the most watchable.
Aquaman is literally a copy and paste of the MCU formula.
 

Imperius

Banned
This usual tired "they're copying my MCU" bs. Sorry, but Iron Man wouldn't have been a success had it not had the blueprint of Batman Begins to work off of, with Avengers also copying heavily from The Dark Knight (and weirdly enough Transformers: Dark of the Moon???). There's nothing all that original about the MCU, people like to talk about it having a connected film universe but we've had that before (Alien/Blade Runner/Soldier), here actually https://screenrant.com/movie-universes-before-mcu/

Nevermind that these are all based on comics and we know DC was the originators there. Even weirder is you guys all seem to think Shazam and Aquaman are the best DC movies even though... they feel the most like MCU films?
Batman vs. Superman took a very different, very non-MCU approach to a comic movie. Unfortunately, audiences rejected it which led to the studio heads panicking, pulling Zack Snyder from the project and trying to "course correct" Justice League midway through production into an Avengers style movie.

I honestly think that 60% of comic movie "fans" are just wired to the MCU formula at this point after 20+ films and their visceral reaction is to reject anything that doesn't deliver what they've come to expect from these movies. It's an interesting phenomenon.
 
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Goro Majima

Kitty Genovese Member
Maybe it's a false impression but a lot of their failings to me seems to stem from the suits and accountants making decisions.

My head canon:

Accountant 1: "Holy shit did you see how much Avengers made? We need to get on that!"

Accountant 2: "Okay fuck it, everyone knows Batman so let's skip that one and just hurry up and get to the team up movie that will obviously make billions because clearly team up movies make that much every time"

Accountant 1: "And make it all snappy with no build up because holy shit this superhero phase might burn out soon!"


So it seemed like a combination of being second to the market, fear of superhero "fatigue", and also trying to chase those dollars too quickly. That and the formula that created the MCU's success was a little more complicated than anyone had anticipated. Whether it's because they let guys like Robert Downey Jr completely own an unknown character (more difficult with the DC heavy hitters) or because they had a more coherent and patient plan while also being first to market I'm not sure.
 

Bolivar687

Banned
I registered to respond to this topic because it's very relevant to me. I was a big fan of the MCU back in the early days of Iron Man and Captain America 2, but I've gone very sour on them to the point that I can't stomach their movies anymore. There's a few reasons for this:
  • The movies are so formulaic and predictable that I can see every story beat coming from a mile away
  • Every movie is packed with the same cheeseball "humor", even from characters like Thor where it doesn't fit at all. When I was younger I enjoyed this kind of humor but as I've matured it's borderline painful for me to listen to.
  • There is no tension, no emotional resonance at all in the movies. The tone of every movie is just "huehuehue"
  • I absolutely loathe Disney as a company, and I'm honest enough to admit this colors my attitude towards their movies
I never saw Batman vs. Superman when it was released in theaters mainly due to the abysmal word of mouth it had. The internet made it sound like it was Battlefield Earth bad. After reading up on the hype surrounding the Snyder cut of Justice League and having my curiosity piqued, I decided to give Batman vs. Superman (Ultimate Cut) a watch last week and much to my surprise... I fucking loved it. I absolutely loved Batman as a disturbed, ruthless badass. I liked the fact that Superman was flawed and had depth instead of being some boring, monotonic ideal. I loved the way that the movie doesn't hold your hand and isn't afraid to challenge the audience, for example with the Knightmare sequence. I loved the visual presentation of the movie; the subdued color palette matched the tone of the movie and was a very welcome change of pace from the nauseating brightly colored visual diarrhea in most comic movies. Every shot was fucking beautiful in 4K HDR. Maybe more than anything, I loved the action. You can actually follow the action and comprehend the fights rather than getting a series of camera cuts that are meant to suggest that fighting is going on. You can literally feel the force behind Superman's attacks, it's just incredible.

It definitely wasn't a perfect movie. The fight at the end with Doomsday feels tacked on and didn't get the set up it should have. There's some other gripes that can be made about the writing and how the story unfolded. But there is so much that is great and novel and refreshing about the movie that those gripes barely register with me.

Reading up on the criticism people have of this movie is very fascinating to me. People love to point out aspects of the writing that are contrived (or that went over their heads in some cases, like the "Martha" scene) and act like this is the only comic movie where the writing takes some liberties. I challenge anyone to name a comic movie where the writing holds up under the same level of scrutiny. The Avengers movies are based on the idea that Thanos thinks the world is running out of resources so he collects magic stones with unlimited power to create more resources kill half the people. I do think there was room for improvement in the BvS writing, but the internet's hive-mind decision to dogpile the movie is very interesting to me. Could the theatrical version have really been that much worse than the version I saw? Maybe, but I think there's more to it than that. There's definitely a contingent of fans who are butthurt by Snyder's portrayal of Batman and Superman and unable to look beyond that. I also think that after 20+ MCU movies, people are essentially programmed to expect the same shit from their comic movies and watching this movie that breaks the mold in so many ways is too much for people to handle. Evidence of this is that Aquaman got a positive reception and that movie is literally a copy and paste of the MCU formula.

Anyway, I'm clearly very late to the party here but I am now eagerly awaiting the Snyder cut of Justice League, I suspect it'll be the last comic movie I enjoy for quite some time given that the market is clearly converging toward more MCU-style bullshit.
Welcome to GAF! Get comfortable and stick around, we don't bite.

I think one of the most glaring omissions from the theatrical release was when the woman from the village recants her story and says that she was paid to say Superman was responsible. Similarly, they cut how the Russian arranges for the prisoner with the bat brand to get murdered. Since it's already such a large scope film with so many characters and plot threads, I think omitting the reasoning behind a lot of stuff just made it feel like a mashup of random moments with the only consistency being this is a grim world where the heroes aren't capable of doing good.

I liked the theatrical when it came out because I could tell early on that it was pandering to my personal taste in comics but the Ultimate Edition is definitely the way to go. Here's hoping the Snyder Cut does the same for JLA 🍻
 

Jethalal

Banned
Welcome to GAF! Get comfortable and stick around, we don't bite.

I think one of the most glaring omissions from the theatrical release was when the woman from the village recants her story and says that she was paid to say Superman was responsible. Similarly, they cut how the Russian arranges for the prisoner with the bat brand to get murdered. Since it's already such a large scope film with so many characters and plot threads, I think omitting the reasoning behind a lot of stuff just made it feel like a mashup of random moments with the only consistency being this is a grim world where the heroes aren't capable of doing good.

I liked the theatrical when it came out because I could tell early on that it was pandering to my personal taste in comics but the Ultimate Edition is definitely the way to go. Here's hoping the Snyder Cut does the same for JLA 🍻
Did you like Snyder's original plans for JL and JL 2? They seemed to be very messy anyways. Like they cut 5-7 years of building up in between movies and more of an Elseworlds story than JL story.
 

Bolivar687

Banned
Did you like Snyder's original plans for JL and JL 2? They seemed to be very messy anyways. Like they cut 5-7 years of building up in between movies and more of an Elseworlds story than JL story.
I'm not sure what the revised two-part story would have been. I did listen to Zack's synopsis of the five part arc beginning with Man of Steel and ending with a fifth film. The Justice League we got would've been part three, then part 4 they go to Apokolips, fail, and Part 5 is them trying to stop Superman by going back in time to stop Darkseid. I assume there would've been a few movies to build up to Part 4 before Superman goes insane. I'm not the biggest DC fan in the world but I actually think it sounds like it would've been awesome.

I wonder if we'll be getting some of it in this Justice League since it's going to be even longer than Zack's original 3.5 hour film.
 
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Jethalal

Banned
I'm not sure what the revised two-part story would have been. I did listen to Zack's synopsis of the five part arc beginning with Man of Steel and ending with a fifth film. The Justice League we got would've been part three, then part 4 they go to Apokolips, fail, and Part 5 is them trying to stop Superman by going back in time to stop Darkseid. I assume there would've been a few movies to build up to Part 4 before Superman goes insane. I'm not the biggest DC fan in the world but I actually think it sounds like it would've been awesome.

I wonder if we'll be getting some of it in this Justice League since it's going to be even longer than Zack's original 3.5 hour film.
Yeah I was talking about that only. I don't think that plan would have worked. BvS seemed tame in comparison to what he was going for and we all know the reception to that movie.
His plans are too grim, unlike the characters and we never saw the JL as a proper team before so seeing them lose doesn't means much. These should have taken place like 5 years from now after every character would've been established properly and we'd have 1 or 2 JL movies too before these plans so their loss would've made more impact. The last animated DC movie ( JL Dark: Apokolips War)in their DC animated universe was quite similar and even that felt quite bizarre even though we had so much buildup. I think Snyder should continue through comics or animated flicks, that would be a great compromise between all parties.
 
Batman vs. Superman took a very different, very non-MCU approach to a comic movie. Unfortunately, audiences rejected it which led to the studio heads panicking, pulling Zack Snyder from the project and trying to "course correct" Justice League midway through production into an Avengers style movie.

I honestly think that 60% of comic movie "fans" are just wired to the MCU formula at this point after 20+ films and their visceral reaction is to reject anything that doesn't deliver what they've come to expect from these movies. It's an interesting phenomenon.

BvS has garnered a pretty big following since, mostly based on the extended cut which restores Snyder's vision. I think you're right about how people are wired, though, I could picture them even rejecting a new Nolan Batman film.
 
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