Dead or Alive 6 - Jiggle Physics Are Back!

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I'm not surprised by the costume selection, but while Kasumi makes out worse of the two, I'm not exactly enamored by Ayane's selection, either. The showcase demonstrates my concerns about the base game that costumes either fully/largely conceal the body or are rendered less provocative through a combination of physique and specific design choices. I find the regular-clothing costumes look particularly unflattering, as if the girls were dumped into some random outfit from a street-fashion magazine, without much thought paid to whether the clothes accentuate their bodies.
 
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Apr 18, 2018
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It's encouraging they're letting folks try out the game via beta.

Online MP really isn't a draw for me in these games (I rarely use it) but I know a botched online launch is pretty crippling for fighting titles. It's cool they're offering a decent number of characters to try out, too.
 
Jul 11, 2018
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After looking at that video of costumes and hearing even more about toning women down I think I'm going to take a wait and see approach. There's no guarantee they will release sexier costumes down the line so I won't buy until the content I want is at least available as DLC. Street Fighter V and Soulcalibur VI have more appeal to me than this does and those are "teen" rated games.

I also don't like hearing there is "content" differences, though that could just be stuff like the Ryu preorder costume for the Xbox or something.
 
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Played about a hour and a half of the beta. The online is pretty bad, only got around 5 or 6 good connection matches, which were 5 bars only, and a few of the 5 bars I got was pretty bad too. Anything less than 4 bars seemed damn near unplayable, and all 4 bars I had were pretty laggy too. Much, much, MUCH worse than Tekken 7 and SoulCalibur VI on PS4, and there online on PS4 isn't exactly the hottest either. Connection settings also don't work.

Can see why they delayed the game for further work.

Recorded my matches, probably will edit later.
 
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Likes: Isa
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My interest is returning!
Like I said, they deliberately gave Kasumi her shit default DOA5 costumes to force pre-orders if you want her actually sexy outfit. No other girl has a pre-order outfit, so given them a sexy outfit doesn't matter.

They did the same thing with vanilla DOA5, defaults were pretty tame for everyone but Lisa, Christie, and Tina yet the game had day 1 bikini DLC through pre-order and the collector's edition. Lisa, Christie, and Tina also polled the worst in Koei Tecmo's poll they did a few months before DOA5's release, so of course they were the only characters in vanilla DOA5 with unblockable bikinis. I get how Koei Tecmo works.
 
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Like I said, they deliberately gave Kasumi her shit default DOA5 costumes to force pre-orders if you want her actually sexy outfit. No other girl has a pre-order outfit, so given them a sexy outfit doesn't matter.

They did the same thing with vanilla DOA5, defaults were pretty tame for everyone but Lisa, Christie, and Tina yet the game had day 1 bikini DLC through pre-order and the collector's edition. Lisa, Christie, and Tina also polled the worst in Koei Tecmo's poll they did a few months before DOA5's release, so of course they were the only characters in vanilla DOA5 with unblockable bikinis. I get how Koei Tecmo works.
I just hope that sexy outfits will be common in the DLC. I would much rather have tons of DLC to keep the community around the game talking and the fan art flowing than nothing. The game is at such odds with itself it's just baffling. It rubs me the wrong way, like it's two different games with incompatible audiences that are Frankensteined together.

I've received a lot of advice in my life to focus on your audience. Know what you are making and who you are selling it to. DOA6 may be what not to do. It seems like a good example of why that's good advice~
 
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I just hope that sexy outfits will be common in the DLC. I would much rather have tons of DLC to keep the community around the game talking and the fan art flowing than nothing. The game is at such odds with itself it's just baffling. It rubs me the wrong way, like it's two different games with incompatible audiences that are Frankensteined together.

I've received a lot of advice in my life to focus on your audience. Know what you are making and who you are selling it to. DOA6 may be what not to do. It seems like a good example of why that's good advice~
I think you just described the problem with every modern fighting game on top of DOA6.
 
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With all the costumes they've shown, including those in the montage featuring the above outfit, Honoka's bikini comes across like some token so the developers could say, "See the game is still sexy." At the same time, depending on how the jacket wraps around her body during matches, there's a chance people will be staring mostly at the back and side of the jacket for a lot of the match. Regardless, the game now has something active supporters can use as concrete evidence to try and quiet anyone expressing displeasure with the character designs, and I suppose if any character was going to fill that role, it would be Honoka.

As it stands, the game seems a jumble of disparate ambitions, and if anything, I actually look forward to how the game does or doesn't evolve over time.
 
Likes: Isa
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After playing the beta, I am not impressed. The stage look bland, character animations look like they were taken from doa5 and the music is kind of meh...I think tekken 7's character models look superior and has better textures, and tekken 7 is a more fun game in terms of combos and depth. Not feeling this game...
 
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WTF happened to Nyotengu's face ?



DoA5 :
She got DOA6'ed. I've noticed this since the reveal, especially Kasumi (who has been polished up a bit since the reveal at least), that some characters got more questionable facial changes while others seem mostly unchanged. The shiny glossy skin textures isn't helping either.

After playing the beta, I am not impressed. The stage look bland, character animations look like they were taken from doa5 and the music is kind of meh...I think tekken 7's character models look superior and has better textures, and tekken 7 is a more fun game in terms of combos and depth. Not feeling this game...
They were, Team Ninja have been reusing the same animations for returning characters since DOA2, Tekken does this as well which still has animations from Tekken 3.
 
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Likes: Isa
Jul 11, 2018
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There is a core fighters version of 6, right? Has that been announced? I may just wait for that to test the game out. DOA6 and Sony themselves are both really frustrating me. I kind of think they are both trying to tell me I'm not welcome anymore.
 
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ArchaeEnkidu

Vincit qui se vincit
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There is a core fighters version of 6, right? Has that been announced? I may just wait for that to test the game out. DOA6 and Sony themselves are both really frustrating me. I kind of think they are both trying to tell me I'm not welcome anymore.
You aren't the only one. SEems like it is an ongoing struggle in general.
 
Likes: Isa
Jul 25, 2011
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The old design has way more personality and it's prettier. New design is more generic and bland. Amazing how much eye shape can do.
Did she also go through reduction surgery?
I think Nyo was one of the few to escape reduction. I think it was her and Honoka, with Tina perhaps (can't tell due to the outfit).
 

Isa

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Tried the beta. I am loathe to try the online in fighters due to lag and player styles, namely my friends and family have this house rule of how fights start and play out. Even after the "fight" shout, we still salute (taunt) to let each other know we're ready and no spamming. Granted I'm not fond of esports at all, and I know we're in a minority but whatever. Still the lag is pretty severe, getting stun locked into a slowdown special due to some random with 1 or two bars is not cool nor fun. Also tried better connections and those were better, but nothing near the potential of an in-house local fight. Why can't they ever release a demo against the ai? Surely it wouldn't be that much more space right?

And yeah the base costumes are pretty bad in how much they've been tweaked to hide skin. Also Ayane's reduction is actually bothersome. Still on the fence.
 
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Tried the beta. I am loathe to try the online in fighters due to lag and player styles, namely my friends and family have this house rule of how fights start and play out. Even after the "fight" shout, we still salute (taunt) to let each other know we're ready and no spamming. Granted I'm not fond of esports at all, and I know we're in a minority but whatever. Still the lag is pretty severe, getting stun locked into a slowdown special due to some random with 1 or two bars is not cool nor fun. Also tried better connections and those were better, but nothing near the potential of an in-house local fight. Why can't they ever release a demo against the ai? Surely it wouldn't be that much more space right?

And yeah the base costumes are pretty bad in how much they've been tweaked to hide skin. Also Ayane's reduction is actually bothersome. Still on the fence.
Informative post but at the same time I have to ask, did you submit this feedback to TK/DoA forum/social media?
Because that's what BETA's are for and they'll be happy to hear from ya (I assume it works this way for the most part on consoles also).
 
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They are providing base desexualized clothes because E-sports. They know that after the Casuals stop playing it, who's gonna milk this game will be the virgins that pay 60 dollars per costume set. So chill out.
 
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I've tried beta for few fights - I never played DoA for more than few matches so I didn't know much what I'm doing but game seems pretty fine. I'll probably get it once it get's cheaper. Now back to working on my platinium in Tekken 7 :)
 
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Well, I'm cancelling my order and taking a longer wait and see approach. I checked the DOA Reddit to see what people thought of the game and the discussion on Shimbori's Taiwan interview pretty much confirms the game is not for me.

I feel uneasy about the game, like Shimbori has no confidence in it. I don't like the way women are being talked about, either, like they all unanimously hate fan service so the game must be toned down.

Do fans who bought the previous games even matter anymore? I bought almost the games from the PSone to now (I think Paradise on the PSP is the only one I didn't pick up). I even imported the Saturn DOA1 because it was supposedly a better arcade port (I had a Japanese Saturn just to play Deep Fear!). I bought the collectors editions when I could, including Xtreme 3 and DOA5.

I honestly, sincerely do not know who the audience for this game is. I had similar misgivings about Marvel Vs Capcom Infinite and still bought it assuming it would get support over time. That was a mistake I won't make again as I'm seriously concerned I'm throwing my money away on games now. I'll wait and see if they add sexy Halloween costumes down the line that might interest me.
 
Jul 25, 2011
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Well, I'm cancelling my order and taking a longer wait and see approach. I checked the DOA Reddit to see what people thought of the game and the discussion on Shimbori's Taiwan interview pretty much confirms the game is not for me.

I feel uneasy about the game, like Shimbori has no confidence in it. I don't like the way women are being talked about, either, like they all unanimously hate fan service so the game must be toned down.

Do fans who bought the previous games even matter anymore? I bought almost the games from the PSone to now (I think Paradise on the PSP is the only one I didn't pick up). I even imported the Saturn DOA1 because it was supposedly a better arcade port (I had a Japanese Saturn just to play Deep Fear!). I bought the collectors editions when I could, including Xtreme 3 and DOA5.

I honestly, sincerely do not know who the audience for this game is. I had similar misgivings about Marvel Vs Capcom Infinite and still bought it assuming it would get support over time. That was a mistake I won't make again as I'm seriously concerned I'm throwing my money away on games now. I'll wait and see if they add sexy Halloween costumes down the line that might interest me.
The messaging about this game has been bizarre from day one. They talk about clothing damage being toned down, but they were showing this off earlier



Hopefully it'll be kept in.

I'll still be getting this day one, but I'll be getting it on PC anyway, so any issues brought up can be fixed.

Keep in mind some of the amazing mods that DOA5 got on PC, and that was a half-assed port missing things the next gen versions were.
 

JORMBO

Darkness no more
Mar 5, 2009
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Well, I'm cancelling my order and taking a longer wait and see approach. I checked the DOA Reddit to see what people thought of the game and the discussion on Shimbori's Taiwan interview pretty much confirms the game is not for me.

I feel uneasy about the game, like Shimbori has no confidence in it. I don't like the way women are being talked about, either, like they all unanimously hate fan service so the game must be toned down.

Do fans who bought the previous games even matter anymore? I bought almost the games from the PSone to now (I think Paradise on the PSP is the only one I didn't pick up). I even imported the Saturn DOA1 because it was supposedly a better arcade port (I had a Japanese Saturn just to play Deep Fear!). I bought the collectors editions when I could, including Xtreme 3 and DOA5.

I honestly, sincerely do not know who the audience for this game is. I had similar misgivings about Marvel Vs Capcom Infinite and still bought it assuming it would get support over time. That was a mistake I won't make again as I'm seriously concerned I'm throwing my money away on games now. I'll wait and see if they add sexy Halloween costumes down the line that might interest me.
I think I’m going to take that approach too. It will probably drop in price pretty quickly anyways.
 
Likes: Isa
Apr 9, 2009
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DOA6 Core FIghters is probably happening anyway, so unless you really need a physical disc to put on your shelf and/or need every single character, the game can still be played by you even if you don't buy the full release.
 
Feb 1, 2018
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Well, I'm cancelling my order and taking a longer wait and see approach. I checked the DOA Reddit to see what people thought of the game and the discussion on Shimbori's Taiwan interview pretty much confirms the game is not for me.

I feel uneasy about the game, like Shimbori has no confidence in it. I don't like the way women are being talked about, either, like they all unanimously hate fan service so the game must be toned down.

Do fans who bought the previous games even matter anymore? I bought almost the games from the PSone to now (I think Paradise on the PSP is the only one I didn't pick up). I even imported the Saturn DOA1 because it was supposedly a better arcade port (I had a Japanese Saturn just to play Deep Fear!). I bought the collectors editions when I could, including Xtreme 3 and DOA5.

I honestly, sincerely do not know who the audience for this game is. I had similar misgivings about Marvel Vs Capcom Infinite and still bought it assuming it would get support over time. That was a mistake I won't make again as I'm seriously concerned I'm throwing my money away on games now. I'll wait and see if they add sexy Halloween costumes down the line that might interest me.
Shimbori is a former DOA tournament player FYI before Team Ninja brought him in as a developer. Which is why we were seeing the eSports talk at reveal. This is why marketing is so weird, Koei Tecmo are marketing it for classic fans, yet Shimbori is developing it as the game him and his tournament buddies wanted, with no regards to the actual majority of the fanbase. You even see it when he talks about character selection, him saying "well I wanted the character" and things like that.

Namco did the same thing with SoulCalibur V, a former SoulCalibur player was the director of it, and we all remember how that went.
 
Jul 11, 2018
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The messaging about this game has been bizarre from day one. They talk about clothing damage being toned down, but they were showing this off earlier



Hopefully it'll be kept in.

I'll still be getting this day one, but I'll be getting it on PC anyway, so any issues brought up can be fixed.

Keep in mind some of the amazing mods that DOA5 got on PC, and that was a half-assed port missing things the next gen versions were.
I feel like Shimbori is getting his views of the west from 2014 era game journalism. It's so anachronistic.

To me, the game has a similar negative atmosphere around it that MVC: Infinite had. No one seems enthusiastic about it, not even Shimbori.
 
Likes: Isa
Jul 11, 2018
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Shimbori is a former DOA tournament player FYI before Team Ninja brought him in as a developer. Which is why we were seeing the eSports talk at reveal. This is why marketing is so weird, Koei Tecmo are marketing it for classic fans, yet Shimbori is developing it as the game him and his tournament buddies wanted, with no regards to the actual majority of the fanbase. You even see it when he talks about character selection, him saying "well I wanted the character" and things like that.

Namco did the same thing with SoulCalibur V, a former SoulCalibur player was the director of it, and we all remember how that went.
Oh, really? That makes sense to me. I get a similar vibe to MVC: Infinite here where there is a disconnect from the fan base. SCV was pretty iffy and Infinite is one of the few games I truly regret spending money on. Combofiend really hurt that game coming at it from a tournament perspective with things like "functions" that became memes.

By the time the game could have content I would buy it for it will be much cheaper. Core Fighters may be a good option for me, too.
 
May 2, 2006
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There seems to be a DOA6: Core Fighters available probably at or near launch I’m assuming. I saw the download on the Xbox page, but obviously it wasn’t available to download yet. I’m happy to finally have another 3D fighter since they are rarer then polka dot unicorns nowadays, but I’m a little concerned about who they are targeting which could end up hurting the game.
 
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I can't help but wonder if Sony had something to do with the desexualization of the game maybe even across other platforms as they are the leaders right now. It really sucks but the game is still plenty sexy and I had fun with the beta so I'm still in.
 
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So, there's been a recurring pattern with DoA6's director, Yohei Shimbori, where he makes comments to foreign press--often about the game's sexual elements--then through the Japanese media, or in tweets, apologizes and states he was misunderstood.

This pattern has again resurfaced, due to comments recently made to Taiwanese game outlet GNN. His comments in reference to clothing damage, and translated by Google into English, were essentilly, "...because of the perception of women, it is unlikely that there will be too much exposure."

As it involves multiple direct and reply tweets from Shimbori's personal account, I'm not going to try and reproduce the content. The site One Angry Gamer has covered the matter, which can be read at the following: article link. To summarize, however, Shimbori's say he was misunderstood and blames translation issues.

I know some aren't exactly a fan of the above website, so here's an archived version of the article: article link (I will say, though, One Angry Gamer did reach out to Shimbori via twitter in Japanese, so the site might deserve a direct click for the effort).

That said, while Shimbori was active on Twitter, the following question and answer occurred:


The Q&A in English (via Google, so please excuse some of the potentially confusing language): "Can you tell me at least whether PS 4 version breaks down competition or is censored due to Sony? At the moment we can not pre-order games unless we know if the game will be the worst in PS4. " Answer: "That's right. Sorry to make you worried. It will take a while until you can answer, please wait."

Considering the statements supposedly made to the Western media, as well as foreign articles that have been allowed to apparently remain uncorrected, Shimbori at this point is just lying to different audiences about the game's sexual elements. It's not that the girls are ugly or draped in burqa, but clearly some combination of personal preference, esports focus, and issues surrounding the current global social climate have resulted in tonal shifts to the fighting game. I expect once Shimbori hits the US on his current press tour, he will again make comments about the game being adjusted to meet current social norms, and he will at a later date again apologize in Japanese about being misunderstood.

Otherwise, while I'm well aware of the tendency of Japanese developers to be reticent and not speak above their authority level, it is concerning that Shimbori is not outright able to dismiss any fears of censorship on, or impacted by, the PS4. Going back to the GNN article, hopefully we will be getting that table with platform differences, sooner rather than later.

::edit:
And while basically known, the most recent tweet on Shimbori's twitter is still trying to dispel the perception of the game lacking jiggle, with him writing, "揺れ方は服次第 (Yure kata wa fuku shidai, or "the shaking depends on the clothes"). I found it interesting, because of how direct it was of a statement. I expect the DLC offering to sell sexy back into this game is going to be egregious.
 
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Shimbori outright said when the game was first announced that the desexualization, and the increase of violence was because of eSports, unlike his other crap he says he even went into detail about it, specifically talking about how he talked with players at Evo 2017.

https://www.dualshockers.com/dead-alive-6-wont-use-soft-engine/
The images of the characters will focus on “cool” as the team heard from the fans at EVO 2017 the opinion that the girls were a bit too sexy and it was embarrassing to play, the request was to make a game that look cooler. Team Ninja wants everyone to be proud of playing Dead or Alive.
Pretty clear it's just another case of aiming for eSports over actual fans, just like SFV, just like BlazBlue Cross Tag Battle, just like Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite, and so on. There was also the whole SoulCalibur V being directed by a former pro player and being ruined as well.

The whole talking about Global Climate is probably just him trying to sound good to Western journalists. Then in Japan Koei Tecmo are marketing it completely different, so there is a possible conflict of interest between him and Koei Tecmo which is why he's always apologizing to the Japanese. At the end of the day it's just about eSports and Shimbori making a game for his tournament buddies.

I expect a few months after release Shimbori will be going from "MUH ESPORTS!" to "MUH JOB!"

https://kotaku.com/the-numbers-dont-lie-gamers-want-dead-or-alive-bikin-1440546939
Dead or Alive series top man Yosuke Hayashi revealed some insight as to gamers' buying habits in an interview with Weekly Famitsu. "With the DOA series, the bathing suits seem to have been popular with Japanese gamers while overseas a lot of people say 'give us male character costumes!' However, once we release the game, it turns out the bathing suits sell quite a lot overseas as well." Hayashi added with a laugh, "Everyone is just trying to save face, but the numbers are honest."
There seems to be a DOA6: Core Fighters available probably at or near launch I’m assuming. I saw the download on the Xbox page, but obviously it wasn’t available to download yet. I’m happy to finally have another 3D fighter since they are rarer then polka dot unicorns nowadays, but I’m a little concerned about who they are targeting which could end up hurting the game.
Not surprised. Not only DOA5, but Koei Tecmo have a free version of Dynasty Warriors 8 Empires and Dynasty Warriors 9. Sales of Koei Tecmo games are declining. There only hit has been Nioh, all there other hits have been collaboration games they made for another company.
 
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TGO

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Played the beta and had fun, looks better and sharper than DOA5 and very clean, can definitely see the upgrade in graphics even if it just slightly cleaner and detailed.
wasn't expecting clothing to tear and rip off, I thought they toned that stuff down lol
 
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What's with this sudden push for esport with every fighting game?
Don't know if you're talking about the default clothes being what they are because of eSports or talking to someone.
But that's what I was thinking also that part (maybe all?) of it got changed because of Esports becoming bigger and the exposure from it is worth the change(s).
IIRC there were issues with Cammy and Mika's outfit in SF5 on some US program/tournament because TV something something....it's all very vague memory.
 

Isa

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I want to take the smarter stance with CatCouch but I don't want to lose out on Nyotengu and other pre-order bonuses as well. If they release those things later if we want them that'd be cool, as I'd much rather take a wait and see approach.
 

Dice

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The "desexualization" here seems to just mean they toned down the absurd/trashy extents of past DLC. The characters actually seem to fall in the realm of human/realistic physics rather than hyper exaggerated anime and wear more than 3 bandaids. It is far more sensible and aesthetic to me. The hooded costume for Ayane may be the best she has ever looked, the only competition being her DOA2 default.
 
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Fuz

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The characters actually seem to fall in the realm of human/realistic physics rather than hyper exaggerated anime and wear more than 3 bandaids. It is far more sensible and aesthetic to me.
Yeah, sure. But it's not what this game was about. The excessive, silly anime look was at the heart of it.
I don't care much for the DoA series, but there are already other choices for "human/realistic" style, they're just removing variety from the market. And displeasing their fan base.
 
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The more I read about this the more certain I am this is not going to be a worthwhile purchase.

The launch game will have the least amount of content at the highest price.

DOA6 seems to be a perfect example of "target everyone; satisfy no one."

If you think the sexy outfits hurt the game and expect fan service to be phased out I image you will be disappointed as the game adds DLC costumes. It's already mature rated for very sexy content by the ESRB.

If you're here because you like the sexy costumes then the game doesn't look to have much at launch, at least not without the digital deluxe edition. All the good stuff will probably come later at a high price which makes the launch game a poor deal. Might as well wait. We'll probably get repackaged "ultimate" editions for next gen consoles.

On a side note: I am happy to see One Angry Gamer reach out to Shimbori! That's certainly helped my image of the site, which I'm usually not fond of.
 
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