Shin
Banned
Credit: Twinfinite
Source: DengekiOnline
Personal note:
This game is such a clusterfuck, a while ago we joked about DoA: VV having more players on Steam but I check the other day and Venus Vacation maintains it's lead.
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Dead or Alive 6 producer discusses future plans, DLC characters, what went wrong and more
- Thread starter Shin
- Start date
Credit: Twinfinite
Source: DengekiOnline
Personal note:
This game is such a clusterfuck, a while ago we joked about DoA: VV having more players on Steam but I check the other day and Venus Vacation maintains it's lead.
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
No, it isn't. It's a very solid, and fun, fighting game.
And a free-to-play game on a single platform completely based on sexy imagery beating in users the least relevant platform of a fighting game should not surprise absolutely anyone, as many in the previous thread already told you.
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Vlaphor
Member
I play DOA6 online around everyday and, on PC, I'm barely finding anyone. I'll find a single lobby and one or two people doing ranked matches. Also, somehow, the people I'm matching up against are generally playing the game on a 56k modem and are doing so wirelessly, so the matches end up feeling like shit.
Also, I don't like lobbies. Why is adding waiting a good thing to a fighting game?
Also, I don't like lobbies. Why is adding waiting a good thing to a fighting game?
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Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
I'm having zero problems finding opponents on PS4.
The lobbies are to allow people to play with their friends instead of being matched randomly.
McCheese
Member
How about not having a £90 season pass before the game is even out next time?
Them locking every skimpy outfit behind an increasingly high paywall was never going to be sustainable, the only reason VV is doing well on PC is because of the mods and trainers to unlock stuff more easily. I get that game budgets are super high and these titles have a niche audience, but make more of the desirable content unlockable in-game or just face the facts and ditch the boring outfits all together.
I would happily have paid £60 for this if I felt I was getting a 'full game' for that money, but seeing the vast quantity of DLC they had planned and the cost of it put me off the game entirely.
Them locking every skimpy outfit behind an increasingly high paywall was never going to be sustainable, the only reason VV is doing well on PC is because of the mods and trainers to unlock stuff more easily. I get that game budgets are super high and these titles have a niche audience, but make more of the desirable content unlockable in-game or just face the facts and ditch the boring outfits all together.
I would happily have paid £60 for this if I felt I was getting a 'full game' for that money, but seeing the vast quantity of DLC they had planned and the cost of it put me off the game entirely.
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Shin
Banned
That's why it's under personal note / my opinion, the sexiness is all gone and even the lighting was more subtle in 5L that the faces look more natural.
They went overboard in too many ways, there's no justifying that along with a plethora of other issues that it has been "plagued" with since reveal.
If it wasn't a mess or whatever you want to call it this interview like many others would be in a different tone.
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
Celcius
°Temp. member
I really like the game and am very happy with my purchase but I feel like the unlock system should have been more like previous titles.
If the game is fun then people will continue to play it... you don't have to make the costumes take a long time to unlock in order to keep people playing.
I'm looking forward to playing as Mai this summer though since I never got her in DOA5.
If the game is fun then people will continue to play it... you don't have to make the costumes take a long time to unlock in order to keep people playing.
I'm looking forward to playing as Mai this summer though since I never got her in DOA5.
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
It's literally the same price as the season passes for the previous game.
Apparently, it has been entirely sustainable for seven season passes. Not surprising that they're sticking with it, since people will buy them.
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Shin
Banned
This is demonstrably and objectively false.
I believe you used the same character and outfit in a previous post to validate your point.
I'm also aware of the YouTube videos with Brass and the new wedding outfits etc etc, my point stands so let's leave it at agree to disagree.
McCheese
Member
But it's "the sims" business model, they can't keep selling you the same shit again just because they've released a version of the game with a different number on the end. How many folks who paid £16 for the wedding outfits for the last game are going to pay the same again for almost identical outfits?
It's not sustainable, which is proved by them going into damage control for a 2-month-old game. Some of the DLC is literally paying to unlock characters the last game already had. It's not even like graphically it's a major leap forward so what is the motivation to buy it all again?
It's not sustainable, which is proved by them going into damage control for a 2-month-old game. Some of the DLC is literally paying to unlock characters the last game already had. It's not even like graphically it's a major leap forward so what is the motivation to buy it all again?
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Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
There are plenty more outfits that are just as sexy, and boob jiggle is all over the place. I simply picked the first picture I had handy.
You pretty literally made a demonstrably and objectively false point, so you can say that it "stands" as much as you like, but it really doesn't.
If they didn't believe it was sustainable, they would have dropped the price. They certainly can, but they aren't, and that should tell you how sustainable it is. Like it or not, the world is full of whales, and a lot of them love costumes. It can be argued that they ruin the market for everyone else, but they exist in droves.
Incidentally, admitting that some mistakes have been made is very different from "going into damage control."
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Shin
Banned
So the game isn't a mess?
Because I've never seen so many interviews given to correct things, even this one is addressing problems.
If you don't like the term clusterfuck and/or like the game then say that, but to say the game isn't a mess would be a lie.
RokkanStoned
Member
Because of its marketing issues, I completely avoided purchasing it. While the sexiness hasn't been why I played DOA, it still was a part of what helped define it over the years, but most of all it was part of the fun. The sheer "don't give a fuck" and "we'll do whatever we want" attitude. Didn't really help with how they changed Kasumi's default costume to some wetsuit. If they wanted to make her more like Hayabusa, they kinda needed to do it more like what Hayabusa's get-up actually is. Or like Ayane.
The eSports focus detracted a lot and I almost purchased it after the Evo Japan stream, but I ultimately decided that all the back and forth had tired me so much that I could just as easily skip it.
The eSports focus detracted a lot and I almost purchased it after the Evo Japan stream, but I ultimately decided that all the back and forth had tired me so much that I could just as easily skip it.
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
No it isn't. It has a few flaws, and launching without lobbies wasn't the best choice, but that's solved, and the fighting gameplay is one of the most solid available.
The fact that communication has been messy does not make the game a mess. Marketing and gameplay are different things.
The demonstrably false point you made, which I clearly quoted is
That's objectively incorrect.
Aranea
Member
Even though the game received changes based on the community feedback, i think is pretty safe to say that Shimbori trying to please gaming journalist is what hurt the game the most. Marketing the game as being serious, reducing most of the cast cup size and trying to be all about esport was enough for casuals to look away. The gameplay is good but they should have focused more on the people that purchase their game instead of trying to get rid of them.
TheDuskwalker
Member
Input lag.
Analysis Reveals DOA6 Currently has the Worst Input Latency in Fightin
DOA 6 Input Latency Overview
ougaming.com
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Yeah, it's easy to why it has received a mixed reception. I also think the series has lost its arcade vibrancy. DOA used to push the tech. When I look at footage of DOA6, I have to remind myself that it's the latest entry.
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The Chairman
Member
Then why Shimbori stepped down from the role of Director all of a sudden?
blackjon24
Member
Can't believe people bought this game at full price
Shin
Banned
Alright deliberately hiding the revealing outfits that might potentially be less steamy/sexy/raunchy/perverted than the previous entry IMO.
Once again you're defending something where everyone is going the other direction yet you're going the opposite.
It reminds me of that insider that reviewed Mass Effect, tried to sell it to fellow GAFFers and got burned for it....just sayin'.
TheDuskwalker
Member
Yeah, made worse by all the cut characters, 2 of which, 1 being one of the most popular characters, were disc locked day 1 DLC (we all know how everyone LOVES disc locked DLC), and telling people to buy the game if they want Momiji (another top popular character) added as paid DLC.
Then the grind of unlocking costumes (which is still fairly tedious even after patch), which still requires you grinding in game money to get them after you unlock them. Insane DLC prices combined with the fact you can't buy costumes individually for the character you actually use. Missing modes (tag), only 1 intro and winpose per character with more slowly being patched in, and missing online features at launch, all that screams rushed by management.
We all know what actually "went wrong."
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Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Let's see...
1) Went all political in a way 100% opposed to the established fanbase for no reason at all.
2) Went back on everything said, so as to piss off the people who would even potentially be pleased by the change that ended up not exactly happening.
3) End result is generally kind of shitty costume designs made to get you feeling unsatisfied and buying overpriced DLC and the whole political slant was just an excuse for making boring designs.
4) Worst unlocking system in the history of fighting games was a giant "fuck you, we actually hate you" to all fans who bought the game.
5) Worst input lag of any fighting game not going to be overlooked after that shit.
6) No ragequit penalties at all.
7) No lobbies for a month.
8) Overall new system features are inconsistent and highly debatable.
9) Timing and hitboxes also fairly janky even compared to the rest of the series. Simply not as polished in gameplay as past entries were, and even those were not regarded as top of the genre but good enough for fans.
10) Fucking all this up right before MK11 comes out. The industry has become somewhat more woke, maybe not to avoid mistakes, but certainly to not continue playing into mistakes they have already made. People are not so forgiving these days to go back to a game after it "fixes" itself. You demonstrate a lack of any shits for your playerbase, they throw any shits they had for your game into the dumpster. That's just how it works now. I bet a lot of people are finding their fixes insufficient and dropping their support for KT as a publisher entirely.
1) Went all political in a way 100% opposed to the established fanbase for no reason at all.
2) Went back on everything said, so as to piss off the people who would even potentially be pleased by the change that ended up not exactly happening.
3) End result is generally kind of shitty costume designs made to get you feeling unsatisfied and buying overpriced DLC and the whole political slant was just an excuse for making boring designs.
4) Worst unlocking system in the history of fighting games was a giant "fuck you, we actually hate you" to all fans who bought the game.
5) Worst input lag of any fighting game not going to be overlooked after that shit.
6) No ragequit penalties at all.
7) No lobbies for a month.
8) Overall new system features are inconsistent and highly debatable.
9) Timing and hitboxes also fairly janky even compared to the rest of the series. Simply not as polished in gameplay as past entries were, and even those were not regarded as top of the genre but good enough for fans.
10) Fucking all this up right before MK11 comes out. The industry has become somewhat more woke, maybe not to avoid mistakes, but certainly to not continue playing into mistakes they have already made. People are not so forgiving these days to go back to a game after it "fixes" itself. You demonstrate a lack of any shits for your playerbase, they throw any shits they had for your game into the dumpster. That's just how it works now. I bet a lot of people are finding their fixes insufficient and dropping their support for KT as a publisher entirely.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
DOA has always looked like DOA
people can say that about every entry of the series since 3 and even that looked like DOA2.
pushing tech or not DOA has always looked the same at first glance.
TheDuskwalker
Member
That's true about character models, as Itagaki just reused and enhanced DOA2 models for years. On the flip side every other area of the games looked impressive, the stages in DOA3 and DOA2 Ultimate looked way ahead of DOA2, and then DOA4 had gorgeous stages, they were even far ahead of DOA5's.
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MrTroubleMaker
Member
What went wrong... catering to sjw that don't buy games.
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Rhazer Fusion
Member
I don’t think the game isn’t close to a mess. A legitimate mess is a game that is literally not functional, incredibly broken or the actual gameplay is terrible and glitchy. The fighting engine is actually very good, has depth and the game is a lot of fun. Sure, it has issues but I’ve seen much worst getting a free pass.
Doa6 is just unfortunately a niche fighting game in a very niche genre. Not sure why the insanely overpriced dlc is surprising based on the previous game which had like 6 $93 season passes and pretty much all fighting games have a similar business model. No lobbies at launch imo was suicide though. That’s something they REALLY screwed up on and it’s inexcusable.
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TheDuskwalker
Member
I'm not sure I would call it that niche of a series.
Edit: Actually looking it up, retail versions of DOA5 was at 1.5 million combined as of July 2015, so it's not that much lower than 3 and 4 unlike what Itagaki said.
Nothing big, but I would rank it above niche.
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Rhazer Fusion
Member
Ah, I remember that interview. Yes, Dead or Alive wasn’t always niche. In fact it used to be a fairly popular franchise, but with most fighting games nowadays, it has lost it’s popularity and gamers just don’t have the patience for most fighting games. Only the hardcore now truly care about fighting games. The fighting genre excluding a few exceptions like Mortal Kombat or Smash is niche now. Games like Dragonball or even Injustice 2 have licenses backing them. Even sf5 struggled to sell its projected 3 million copies after all these years and I don’t think it ever achieved it. Even Marvel Infinite failed somehow. Admittedly, Tekken 7 did quite well which is on multiple platforms, but it’s still nowhere close to Tekken 3 sales which was on 1 single platform. Doa6’s questionable and confusing marketing didn’t exactly do it any favors either.
Revolutionary
Member
I bought it at 50% off and still felt ripped off.
That's like one of the five sexy costumes available in the base game, whereas the previous games had literal dozens by default.This is demonstrably and objectively false.
Oh but you can buy the Deluxe Pass to get instant access to sexier outfits! What a deal!
Shin
Banned
Valid point, for me it's more about all the unnecessary changes the shitty interviews trying to correct news outlets.
For the same under messy I find DoAX3 to be a shitstorm also because there are 3 editions but the 2 PlayStation have are more incomplete than the free one.
The financial part I'm not bothered with (another person would mind it) as I see it as fan service and buy what you need and/or can afford, though one could say that's equally messy/chaotic.
Perhaps better choice of words would have been more welcome, didn't think I'd end up replying till 01:00AM to Abrieal over a choice of words given that we're not in school but whatever.
I've also noticed that MK11 isn't so hot either, yet that piece of shit (IMO....) does not look great at all, it could be that we're hung up on nostalgia and don't like changes even the slightest ones.
JunkerWoland
Member
The various issues surrounding DoA6 are summed up by a product that won't allow a large portion of its consumer base to purchase individual costume DLC, made worse considering there's a free-to-play version of the title. From the marketing, to the content in the base game, to everything surrounding how the product is being sold, Koei Tecmo did DoA6 no favors.
That said, I'm inclined to think Koei Tecmo was content to simply try and make a few bucks off a work-in-progress. Regardless of how the company chooses to support DoA6 past 2019, hopefully they'll legitimately take into consideration the game's consumer criticism.
That said, I'm inclined to think Koei Tecmo was content to simply try and make a few bucks off a work-in-progress. Regardless of how the company chooses to support DoA6 past 2019, hopefully they'll legitimately take into consideration the game's consumer criticism.
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Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
"everyone" doesn't mean what you think it means.
I think your memories of vanilla DOA5 are VERY blurry.
"After release" isn't exactly sudden. The fact that the game has issues some of which stemmed from having all the decision power focused on one person does not in any shape or form mean that the game itself is a "clusterfuck." It remains a very solid fighting game.
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Shin
Banned
That's why the word figure of speech exist and things shouldn't be taken too literal.
Perhaps you need a vacation to relax a little as overconfidence leads to a wrongful path if it hasn't already.
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Javthusiast
Banned
Tried to play a couple rounds a moment ago. It has barely any lobbies on right now and searching 4+ connections in ranked takes forever. Is it already dying?
Cactuarman
Banned
This is a big one for me and why I eventually stopped playing. That and the fact that I bought it on Xbox assuming that the 4K mode would be awesome and not absolutely terrible. Lesson learned I suppose. Even the performance mode for me runs kind of poorly on some stages. Additionally I just don't think it looks all that great in terms of color. Past games had beautiful stages and I feel that's lacking here.
I don't totally understand the comments regarding a lack of sexiness. Next to every outfit just being swimsuits the game seems perfectly sexy to me. I just wish it ran better and unlocking a few outfits for people I liked was more straightforward.
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
The "wrongful path" is liking a game you don't? Oh lol.
Maybe instead of suggesting vacations to others, you should take a break from hyperbole. If you had solid arguments, you shouldn't need it.
cireza
Banned
Did we play the same game ? The game is super awesome. Incredible visuals, super short loading times (Xbox One X), a ton of content at launch, tenths of costumes that you can unlock for free (including a lot of sexy stuff), awesome stages and great soundtrack.
This is a game that I will be playing for the next 5 years without a doubt.
People complaining that there aren't any sexy costumes obviously did not play the game by the way.
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The Cartographer
Member
Just put all the new characters from DOAX3 in the next revised version of DOA6, please.
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
Shin
Banned
You can like a game all you want without the grammar nazi and superiority complex attitude.
It's not the first thread where you've displayed similar behavior where others disagreed with your point of view.
I could say that we go way back to the days of N4G/DS and that you've become a complete douche but that would be a waste of energy and the denial would come into effect.
Lastly seeing as it causes so much trouble and I need to be on my best behavior and act perfect like a certain someone I won't bother posting articles you write, that way we can avoid conflicts
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
You can like a game all you want without the grammar nazi and superiority complex attitude.
It's not the first thread where you've displayed similar behavior where others disagreed with your point of view.
I could say that we go way back to the days of N4G/DS and that you've become a complete douche but that would be a waste of energy and the denial would come into effect.
Lastly seeing as it causes so much trouble and I need to be on my best behavior and act perfect like a certain someone I won't bother posting articles you write, that way we can avoid conflicts
You can post or not post whatever you like. It doesn't bother me either way. This has nothing to do with it being an article I wrote.
Hyperbole isn't grammar. If I wanted to call out your grammar, I'd have pointed out your tendency to confuse its and it's. Hyperbole is trying to support a false point by making it sound way more sensational than it is, and it's pretty damn disrespectful towards developers, which I don't agree with or appreciate. If it's true that we go "way back," you should already know that's a major pet peeve for me and being called names on the internet isn't going to change that.
You're free to be disrespectful with people whose work and issues you won't ever come close to understanding, if it floats your boat, just as I'm free to call you out on it. Considering how you throw insults around, tho, it's not surprising. Not that it bothers me in any way if you insult me. I'm very used to edgy internet warriors.
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Shin
Banned
Short term memory?
Neither is undermining by speaking for them, they are adults, professionals and being criticized comes with the job.
The world doesn't evolve around you, what you appreciate or don't is irrelevant.
There's a big difference in criticizing a work a collective of people put out and disrespecting them, apparently you can't tell the difference with your infinite wisdom.
I was wondering when you'd use that card, you think going to Japan on a business trip, writing about articles on games far and wide and perhaps a virtual friend or two, along with being able to perhaps read/write Japanese a bit makes you an expert? You might be a writer and therefor automatically pay more attention to grammar but don't make the mistake to think I'm just another figure behind a the screen that doesn't know, experienced or learned shit.
You can call out whoever you want even though this was already addressed for the same it can be said it depends on how you do it, by proxy you're being a hypocrite.
Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
If you don't think calling someone's work a "clusterfuck" is disrespectful, there is no helping you. There's a giant difference between "criticism" and plain ol' disrespect. Make no mistake, yours isn't the former.
And no. While talking to developers on a regular basis for nearly two decades did give me SOME very limited experience, I'm very far myself from being an expert of the issues they go through.
Which is exactly why I think they should be respected way more than they are, and seeing people behaving as you do pisses me off.
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Shin
Banned
I don't need to explain myself to you or anyone that's for one and if you're breathing down people's neck like this constantly then you have issues and should sort them out.
Notice how I haven't criticized game-play, character models, menu's, player count, etc etc. and clarified after being attended to my choice of words (not even blaming it on being half asleep at the time even though I was).
Could have disagreed but you chose the approach you did and there lies the problem, it all depends on the messaging that goes both ways - I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong and did so previously, are you?
Being passionate about something you feel strong about I can fully understand as I dislike half baked people, yet the internet is a place to escape where we don't need to be under a magnifying glass constantly - learn to let go sometimes.
TheDuskwalker
Member
Can't say on consoles, but PC version is definitely struggling with a huge drop in players since launch,
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