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Death Tank is the XBLA Game of the Week (PR)

FraGNeM

Member
Another_visitor said:
Slightly concerned that the ground doesn't seem to deform. Maybe they've swapped that for prettier graphics. Hmmm...

I was surprised when I read that, so I checked again...and there is, from the looks of it.

The deformation isn't as pronounced (the ground doesn't crater from each explosion), but you can definitely see that the ground depresses from a big blast.

Oh, and the trailer says it has destructible terrain, heh.
 

Rlan

Member
The game does have destructible terrain, but yeah, not as pronounced. The levels aren't entirely made like they were made in sand.
 
That's what I was mostly looking at. It doesn't seem so much as destructible terrain, as it just pushes and pulls the terrain :lol

Still, I'm excited to check this game out.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
SapientWolf said:
I think MS should start allowing the XBLA prices to naturally decay over time, like they do in retail. That way consumers could spend the maximum amount that they are willing to spend on an XBLA game (i.e. price skimming). They could even time each price drop with a renewed marketing push or DLC.

In retail, there are three major forces governing price-drops:
- The interest of the developer (Game not selling? We'll drop MSRP)
- The interest of the retailer (Game not selling? We'll drop prices to cut our losses)
- The interest of the buyer (Don't like game? I'll resell it)

I don't think digital download services will ever have such effective interests, largely because the third group will never exist unless MS allows game gifting and points gifting and someone makes a nice site to facilitate everything, and the second group has no incentive--MS doesn't really get hurt in any meaningful way if game downloads for a given game slow.

Still, allowing the developer full access to all sales figures and unlimited authority to raise or lower prices instantaneously would be a great start. It's very frustrating that the only price drops that occur are "greatest hits" style price drops. If anything, Worms should still be 800 points and Exit / Roogoo / who knows how many bomba games should be 200 or 400!

I can pretty safely say I'd never complain about a premium price point or price creep if it was obvious to me that market rejection would lead to a price drop.
 
I was a maybe-buy at 800, I'm a definite no at 1200.

Sorry Death Tank I was a huge fan back on the Saturn but back then I had many friends to play local multi with. Right now I'm in a different country and don't even have a gold account.

I'd love to know what this game is going to do to justify it's higher price point. I mean, Portal:Still Alive is 1200 points. I'd have thought 800, on the same level as Geometry Wars 2 and Bionic Commando.

Still, if you have a lot of friends coming around or play with a group on XBL regularly then Death Tank is a very, very fun game and probably worth the 1200 points. I still think that's a very specific group of people to aim your product at though, and most people wont see it as a good value proposition.
 

mujun

Member
Dead Man Typing said:
I'd love to know what this game is going to do to justify it's higher price point.

it doesn't need to do anything apparently. it would seem 1200pts is the new 800pts.
 
Dead Man Typing said:
I still think that's a very specific group of people to aim your product at though, and most people wont see it as a good value proposition.
It is a specific group, that's why the price is higher. Those in the group will find it good value those who aren't, won't, regardless of the price.

Space Giraffe had a small price tag but it was so idiosyncratic that few thought it was good value & it bombed. They would of been better off giving it a higher price as those who enjoyed it would mosty likely have been willing to pay the extra for such a specialist product. This extra revenue for the creator would also benefit the customer as they would be more likely to see similar niche products in the future.

rezuth said:
I would still be unsure if I would buy this at 400points...
Exactly.
 
Dead Man Typing said:
I was a maybe-buy at 800, I'm a definite no at 1200.

Sorry Death Tank I was a huge fan back on the Saturn but back then I had many friends to play local multi with. Right now I'm in a different country and don't even have a gold account.

I'd love to know what this game is going to do to justify it's higher price point. I mean, Portal:Still Alive is 1200 points. I'd have thought 800, on the same level as Geometry Wars 2 and Bionic Commando.

Still, if you have a lot of friends coming around or play with a group on XBL regularly then Death Tank is a very, very fun game and probably worth the 1200 points. I still think that's a very specific group of people to aim your product at though, and most people wont see it as a good value proposition.

I wouldn't buy it either without a Gold account.

Actually, if I didn't have a Gold account, I'd sell my 360.
 
Stumpokapow said:
I agree.

The problem is that people said Braid was worth it and Castle Crashers was worth it and SSF2THDR was worth it... I agree with those too. I'm sure if you doubled back there were plenty of 800 point games that were strictly speaking worth $15... but the more you excuse it for games that do "deserve it", the more that it's going to creep up and be the standard price point.

8 games released since mid-2008 have been 1200 points. That's more than the sum total from November 2005 to mid-2008. That's worrisome.

If anyone really thought 800 points was a sustainable pricepoint, especially after Microsoft introduced their new revenue split then they were out of their mind. 1200 is now the standard, you're just going to have to deal with it. The price for casual downloadable games was never around $10 on average on the PC where Microsoft didn't take an almighty share of revenue so no one should have expected it to remain so on the Xbox either.
 

bloodydrake

Cool Smoke Luke
brain_stew said:
If anyone really thought 800 points was a sustainable pricepoint, especially after Microsoft introduced their new revenue split then they were out of their mind. 1200 is now the standard, you're just going to have to deal with it. The price for casual downloadable games was never around $10 on average on the PC where Microsoft didn't take an almighty share of revenue so no one should have expected it to remain so on the Xbox either.


sorry i disagree 400points are an impulse buy almost always for me.
800 i play the demo and really think if i want to spend that much on it.
1200 falls into absolutely not unless its something that really sparks a major interest in me or my friends.
The more people that refuse to impulse buy 1200 point games the more they will have to re-evaluate the price point. If Microsoft is raping the devs, they'll leave to work on other platforms and MS will have to lower their take to attract them back.

Feeling like you have no choice but to over pay for games is EXACTLY what they want you to think.
 

Shig

Strap on your hooker ...
Another_visitor said:
Space Giraffe had a small price tag but it was so idiosyncratic that few thought it was good value & it bombed. They would of been better off giving it a higher price as those who enjoyed it would mosty likely have been willing to pay the extra for such a specialist product. This extra revenue for the creator would also benefit the customer as they would be more likely to see similar niche products in the future.
I don't really think Death Tank is at all comparable to Space Giraffe. DT's charm is immediately obvious to anyone that played Worms*, and Worms was very successful on Arcade.

DT is a game that lives or dies by the multiplayer, and a price that gives people pause is not a good way to ensure longevity... if I play a 1200 point single-player game like Braid or Portal years after release, it'll be the same experience as it was day 1. A game focused entirely on multiplayer does not carry that guarantee.

This would be a lesser concern if XBLA's pricing structure entertained the notion of price drops over time, but for the most part the initial price is the price it's going to stay.

*Yes, I know they play very differently, but there's a definite commonality there.
 

Meier

Member
My guess is you're losing at least half your sales by going to $15 from $10. It could possibly even out in the long run, but on a game like this, I doubt it will. It's a misstep to price it at $15, plain and simple. $5 is nothing in the grand scheme of things, but in this case it's the equivalent in mindset of buying a $90 game versus a $60 game. It has to blow the pants off most every other title available.
 

Shard

XBLAnnoyance
Meier said:
My guess is you're losing at least half your sales by going to $15 from $10. It could possibly even out in the long run, but on a game like this, I doubt it will. It's a misstep to price it at $15, plain and simple. $5 is nothing in the grand scheme of things, but in this case it's the equivalent in mindset of buying a $90 game versus a $60 game. It has to blow the pants off most every other title available.

Well, that is counterbalanced by the fact that the revenue of the game gets upped at you go higher in price.
 

Meier

Member
Shard said:
Well, that is counterbalanced by the fact that the revenue of the game gets upped at you go higher in price.
You still need to sell at least 66% as many copies as you would at the lower price point to balance it out. I don't expect it will. I think at MOST it will sell 50% as many copies as if it were a lower cost.

Without a physical item to fall back on, it has to be about impulse purchases. $15 goes outside the realm of impulse for most consumers.
 
beermonkey@tehbias said:
Get a second job.

It's not a question of being able to afford it, it's a question of is it worth it and how many friends will buy it at that price. Not to mention I just picked up Sonic genesis collection, and SFIV and have Killzone 2 next week. I barely have enough time to work a single job and still play all these games! :D
 

Nif

Member
From what I've seen in videos, I think I'd be happier with a rebalanced Destruct. :/ Maybe after pricedrops.

Hmm, I was looking at the wrong videos, apparently. This doesn't look bad.
 

mollipen

Member
dallow_bg said:
You really gonna get 100 hours out of it?

I've easily gotten 100 hours of play out of Top Shop back on the PS1, which is another multiplayer party game-style game. 100 hours out of Death Tank is very doable.
 

alanias

Member
SuperEnemyCrab said:
So you would say this game is comparable to braid?

I will probably get more enjoyment out of it, yes. It doesn't have to have an emo story and mind bending puzzles to be worth 15 dollars. I can almost guarantee this one will have more replayability.
 
SuperEnemyCrab said:
So you would say this game is comparable to braid?

As I've said in this thread, it Deathtank is the best local multiplayer game ever made.

If you'd define comparable as an exceptional title, timeless in concept, incredibly accessible, and remains engaging even after a decade, then yes, it is comparable.

There is a reason that this game has a legendary reputation despite the fact it only appeared once, a decade ago, as a hidden extra on a port on a failing console. And that reason is because it represents all that is good about gaming.

Oh, and because of the Blitz Round. Mustn't forget that.
 

Shard

XBLAnnoyance
Mama Robotnik said:
As I've said in this thread, it Deathtank is the best local multiplayer game ever made.

If you'd define comparable as an exceptional title, timeless in concept, incredibly accessible, and remains engaging even after a decade, then yes, it is comparable.

There is a reason that this game has a legendary reputation despite the fact it only appeared once, a decade ago, as a hidden extra on a port on a failing console. And that reason is because it represents all that is good about gaming.

Oh, and because of the Blitz Round. Mustn't forget that.


Actually it appeared twice, the first time around it was a hidden extra in the game Powerslave/Exhumed for the Saturn, Playstation 1 and PC.
 
MightyHedgehog said:
Technically, it appeared twice, Mama Robotnik. Just sayin'. And I agree with ya. Should be a beautiful time if Flat Games pulled it off.

In the UK we only got Death Tank Zwei. Was particularly unhappy as I actually completed Exhumed (Powerslave in the US) with all of those bastarding Team Dolls (no mean feat!).

But yes, technically you are correct.

EDIT - Was unaware of Death Tank being in the PS1 and PC ports. Are you certain about the PC port? Because I think I have a copy of it lying around somewhere. If Death Tank has been on that all along, I wish I'd known!
 
Mama Robotnik said:
As I've said in this thread, it Deathtank is the best local multiplayer game ever made.

If you'd define comparable as an exceptional title, timeless in concept, incredibly accessible, and remains engaging even after a decade, then yes, it is comparable.

There is a reason that this game has a legendary reputation despite the fact it only appeared once, a decade ago, as a hidden extra on a port on a failing console. And that reason is because it represents all that is good about gaming.

Oh, and because of the Blitz Round. Mustn't forget that.

ya ya we all had fun with scorched earth back in the day. From a personal worth standpoint unless a bunch of my friends pick this up I won't drop $15 on it considering my already massive backlog and just wait for a sale, thats all.
 

Shard

XBLAnnoyance
Mama Robotnik said:
In the UK we only got Death Tank Zwei. Was particularly unhappy as I actually completed Exhumed (Powerslave in the US) with all of those bastarding Team Dolls (no mean feat!).

But yes, technically you are correct.

EDIT - Was unaware of Death Tank being in the PS1 and PC ports. Are you certain about the PC port? Because I think I have a copy of it lying around somewhere. If Death Tank has been on that all along, I wish I'd known!


Actually, it appears Death Tank was Saturn only.
 
SuperEnemyCrab said:
ya ya we all had fun with scorched earth back in the day.

Ummm...

From a personal worth standpoint unless a bunch of my friends pick this up I won't drop $15 on it considering my already massive backlog and just wait for a sale, thats all.

That's fine, its not a game I have any intention of playing online myself (not a Gold member anyway). Its local multiplayer I want this for. Just disappointed that it will only support a maximum of four players in such a context.

EDIT - Thanks for the clarification re: Death Tank's previous appearance.
 

Dave Long

Banned
SuperEnemyCrab said:
I'm just referring to the classic title I remember in this particular genre of multiplayer tank battles with funky weapons and deforming terrain. They are basically the same games, yes?
Why not read the post that was linked and find out that they're not?
 
Dave Long said:
Why not read the post that was linked and find out that they're not?


*shrug* I watched the trailer linked in the OP. Seems exactly like scorched earth to me with a graphical update, little less terrain deformation and online. I'm willing to listen though if you want to explain why you think they are so different.....
 
SuperEnemyCrab said:
*shrug* I watched the trailer linked in the OP. Seems exactly like scorched earth to me with a graphical update, little less terrain deformation and online. I'm willing to listen though if you want to explain why you think they are so different.....
Imagine SE without the frozen time/turn part and everything being in real-time. That's a HUGE difference. It's like taking a turn-based RPG and instead working it out in real-time. Did I already mention that it was a real-time affair and not turn-based? :)
 
MightyHedgehog said:
Imagine SE without the frozen time/turn part and everything being in real-time. That's a HUGE difference. It's like taking a turn-based RPG and instead working it out in real-time. Did I already mention that it was real-time? :)


Ha ha ok, you got me with that one, it has been like 10 years since i played it. Other than that though, what else?
 
SuperEnemyCrab said:
Other than that though, what else?
What else do you need? :lol I hope there are more surprises in the new version, so I can't go beyond what I already have posted about since my experience is just with the ol' Saturn versions. Just check out the demo when it hits and I'm sure it will need no further explanation.
 
MightyHedgehog said:
What else do you need? :lol I hope there are more surprises in the new version, so I can't go beyond what I already have posted about since my experience is just with the ol' Saturn versions. Just check out the demo when it hits and I'm sure it will need no further explanation.


Downright logical idea. And with that I will leave the thread, I'm sorry for going a little off topic all.
 

Meier

Member
Dave Long said:
No. Not fixed. $15 is not an impulse buy for a digital download. It isn't. I know you might want this game to massively succeed and maybe it will, but no, $15 is not within the impulse buy price bracket.
 

FightyF

Banned
Meier said:
You still need to sell at least 66% as many copies as you would at the lower price point to balance it out. I don't expect it will. I think at MOST it will sell 50% as many copies as if it were a lower cost.

Without a physical item to fall back on, it has to be about impulse purchases. $15 goes outside the realm of impulse for most consumers.

I made a lot of the same arguments you made back when we were debating the price of Braid.

But I don't agree about the impulse purchases part. I think the only impulse purchases are the 200 and 400 price point ranges (200 only found on Community Games titles), whereas the rest are purchases where you think about them.

The only impulse purchase I've made was the first mini-golf game on XBLA, and that was a waste. I did play the demo, and was hoping for more after purchasing, and I was wrong. So now if I'm not having a blast with the demo, I don't buy it.

I think people are on the right track here, if they don't have Live Gold, or don't have many friends interested in playing it, then it's obviously not worth even considering a purchase. And if they do have friends, but just can't afford it, then they shouldn't buy it.

Simple as that.

Anyone arguing that it's only $5 more...it's more complicated than that. One other perspective is percentage...how would you react if you found your haircut cost 50% more overnight? Also, that $5 could be purchasing another XBLA/XBCG game. So for 1200 you could get 2 good games. And finally it's all about budget. I've been making budgets and living by them for the last year and so I totally live within my means and debt free (thank God), and if that means not spending another $5 on something I didn't plan for, then so be it. I've specifically budgeted $30 USD a month for XBLA, PSN and XBCG games. Not going to change that to $35 for anything, I'll simply wait until next month.

Someone mentioned here that Flower was a short experience, so that saves $10 USD this month. :)
 

alanias

Member
Meier said:
No. Not fixed. $15 is not an impulse buy for a digital download. It isn't. I know you might want this game to massively succeed and maybe it will, but no, $15 is not within the impulse buy price bracket.

According to what? Show me the chart that determines what is or isn't impulse. Impulse is different on a consumer by consumer basis and regardless as to what you think of the price you can't make blanket statements like this.
 

Meier

Member
alanias said:
According to what? Show me the chart that determines what is or isn't impulse. Impulse is different on a consumer by consumer basis and regardless as to what you think of the price you can't make blanket statements like this.
I can make that statement with 100% confidence and KNOW I am correct. If you want to believe otherwise and hope that you are, feel free to do so.
 

alanias

Member
Meier said:
I can make that statement with 100% confidence and KNOW I am correct. If you want to believe otherwise and hope that you are, feel free to do so.

Confidence is the new evidence! It definitely prices some people out of the equation, but I think the right kind of gamer will still buy it on "impulse."
 

Meier

Member
alanias said:
Confidence is the new evidence! It definitely prices some people out of the equation, but I think the right kind of gamer will still buy it on "impulse."
If it requires 'the right kind of gamer,' it isn't an 'impulse buy.' Impulse buys are for anyone and everyone. iTunes songs at 99 cents are an impulse buy. Rock Band songs at 2 bucks are an impulse buy. A can of Monster at $1 instead of $2.50 is an impulse buy. It needs to be on sale or naturally priced low to cause someone to be impulsive.

In terms of digital downloads, the best you can hope for is $10, but as FightyF mentioned, a more realistic amount is $5 or less to be considered an impulse buy. I am confident because I am correct. Correctness breeds confidence.
 

alanias

Member
Meier said:
If it requires 'the right kind of gamer,' it isn't an 'impulse buy.' Impulse buys are for anyone and everyone. iTunes songs at 99 cents are an impulse buy. Rock Band songs at 2 bucks are an impulse buy. A can of Monster at $1 instead of $2.50 is an impulse buy. It needs to be on sale or naturally priced low to cause someone to be impulsive.

In terms of digital downloads, the best you can hope for is $10, but as FightyF mentioned, a more realistic amount is $5 or less to be considered an impulse buy. I am confident because I am correct. Correctness breeds confidence.

Ultimately we just have different definitions of "impulse." Price might make something more likely to be an impulse purchase, I agree with you there, but it's not the only determining factor.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
if it's crap i ain't downloading it even for free. but i guess our iphone-gaming culture differs from me, sadly
 

voltron

Member
Kuroyume said:
Banjo-Tooie has been announced for 1200 already, but that was expected after B-K.

Dishwasher will probably be 1200 just because it's going to be published by MS.


They couldnt possible charge 1200 for Dishwasher. Its an XNA game!

And so death Tank is like Worms and Scorched Earth?
 
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