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Deathblow! Silicon Knights ordered to destroy all software with unreal code.

Waaghals

Member
Oct 29, 2007
1,960
0
975
Wait. But doesn't everyone use a modified version of the engine? I don't understand how that ends up in SK having to destroy all the code having to do with UE3.

More importantly, what does this mean for all the other licensees? Could they also be in risk of something like this? If I was licensing the engine or considering licensing it I'd be looking at this very carefully.
You don't understand. Developers are free to modify the engine, but silicon knights terminated their license agreement, and used parts of the engine anyway - without paying Epic.
 

patapuf

Member
Nov 18, 2011
9,974
0
0
Wait. But doesn't everyone use a modified version of the engine? I don't understand how that ends up in SK having to destroy all the code having to do with UE3.

More importantly, what does this mean for all the other licensees? Could they also be in risk of something like this? If I was licensing the engine or considering licensing it I'd be looking at this very carefully.
The key difference is that all the other licensees actually pay for the UE3 license.

SK simply modified it and pretended it was their own - without paying a dime.
 

Alextended

Banned
Jan 30, 2010
9,943
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...SK didn't buy a license yet sued Epic for not providing support and having the engine in a bad state? Does not compute...

Why didn't Epic sue them sooner, everyone knew that game used their engine and it became quite known (if notorious).

Edit: oh okay, so they did buy a license, then didn't renew it for other projects, but continued to use it. But didn't they still have it back when they made Too Human, why destroy that? If they didn't have it even then, as above.
 
Jun 13, 2005
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I'm torn. I wanted to get X-men Destiny but I didn't want to pay much beyond $5 for it since it is a terrible game I probably won't play. Do I pay more than my target price of around $5 in order to avoid collectors prices in the future or simply forget about it?
 

KojiKnight

Member
May 24, 2012
20,246
8
630
Oh SK... I think you done goofed too hard... I hope you still have some hidden capital somewhere.
 

IdreamofHIME

Member
Sep 14, 2010
21,435
4
540
Unsold? Does that mean used games stores might have are not included?

The recall will apply to sealed stock only, used games can't be included. How can the publishers refund stores for recalled stock that the publisher never even sold?
Unless they start calling up the kids who traded the games in and demand the credit back :/
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Oct 29, 2006
42,984
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LOL. This lawsuit was never going to end well for SK but this is complete ownage. Holy crap. I still can't believe they went through with it when they could only win a dollar or something.
 
Aug 27, 2009
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...SK didn't buy a license yet sued Epic for not providing support and having the engine in a bad state? Does not compute...

Why didn't Epic sue them sooner, everyone knew that game used their engine and it became quite known (if notorious).

Edit: oh okay, so they did buy a license, then didn't renew it for other projects, but continued to use it. But didn't they still have it back when they made Too Human, why destroy that? If they didn't have it even then, as above.
I believe the contract was for multiple games (the whole Too Human trilogy and others), and SK opted out of that.
 

DragonSworne

Banned
Aug 23, 2011
12,539
1
0
Destroying code?

Stupid ass court siding with a big corporation instead of understanding technology.

This mandate proves the court has no clue what it doing or what is going on.
 

jcm

Member
Dec 8, 2008
5,102
0
0
I'm no fan of Dyack, but this is a real bummer. His ego is going to cost a bunch of people their jobs.

Destroying code?

Stupid ass court siding with a big corporation instead of understanding technology.

This mandate proves the court has no clue what it doing or what is going on.
What are you talking about?
 

Joni

Member
Aug 11, 2007
30,093
0
1,165
My House
Destroying code?

Stupid ass court siding with a big corporation instead of understanding technology.

This mandate proves the court has no clue what it doing or what is going on.
It is siding with a company that has about 150 employees over a company that had 150 employees when it started the lawsuit. Clearly a big company that was bullying a little one.
 

FlyinJ

Douchebag. Yes, me.
Sep 22, 2005
12,696
1
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I believe the contract was for multiple games (the whole Too Human trilogy and others), and SK opted out of that.
I believe you can license the engine on a year-by-year basis, and if you ship a game there is another cost you pay Epic.

SK paid the initial fee for the engine, decided to not use it, then shipped their game with Unreal code in it without paying Epic for continued usage of their code.
 

Dyno

Member
Jul 11, 2007
8,412
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Toronto
SK used Epic's code on multiple games, all the while thinking they could get away with it. There is no point in firing Dyack because SK is done. The staff has no engine they can use now and they will have to tool up and learn to use a new one.

Not worth the money.
 

tmarques

Member
Dec 30, 2007
3,287
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All unsold copies of Too Human? Shit, better get the landfill next to ET Atari ready.
Wasn't Microsoft forcing this game down people's throats for a while via bundles? I'd be surprised if there were that many new copies floating around.

I kind of wish I hadn't unsealed mine. Not because I think it will be worth anything in the future, but I kind of miss those 6 hours or so of my life.
 
Jun 11, 2010
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I'm no fan of Dyack, but this is a real bummer. His ego is going to cost a bunch of people their jobs.
If by "a bunch" you mean like 4?

SK consists of "less than 5 people," including Dyack himself. This tidbit was posted within the last month here on GAF. Dyack's ego probably cost plenty of people their jobs long before this happened (see: internal X-Men Destiny/ED2 resources debacle).
 

Kazuma Kiryu

Member
Apr 19, 2008
7,504
0
0
it's a bummer for all the employees, and i really loved some of their work (LoK, eternal darkness, twin snakes was okay too) but they've been a shadow of that for so long i can't say i will be truly disappointed. just get rid of dyack since the guy's an idiot and start a new studio with the rest of the folks, i'll be interested to see if they still have what it takes. hope everyone over there eventually manages to go to bigger things.
edit: holy, 4 people? wow, didn't know that.
 

Cheerilee

Member
Apr 14, 2005
10,013
1
0
Pro-tip:
Don't launch a lawsuit against anybody when you don't have a case.
Whatever happened to "the customer is always right"? I'm pretty sure that used to be legally binding. Just like "possession is nine tenths of the law."

Like... if I go to McDonalds and I buy a cheeseburger, and I don't like it, then I can go back to McDonalds and demand my money back. If they don't give it to me, I can sue them. Also, I shouldn't have to hand over my half-eaten cheeseburger, I can take that cheeseburger home and "fix it" by adding more mustard, and then it's fine. Why should I give my half-eaten cheeseburger back to McDonalds? It won't do them any good. They'll just throw it in the trash. And I can use it as a base to make my new totally-original not-McDonalds cheeseburger.

SK used Epic's code on multiple games, all the while thinking they could get away with it. There is no point in firing Dyack because SK is done. The staff has no engine they can use now and they will have to tool up and learn to use a new one.

Not worth the money.
There is no staff left at SK. It's just Dyack.

http://kotaku.com/5955223/what-went-wrong-with-silicon-knights-x+men-destiny
 

jcm

Member
Dec 8, 2008
5,102
0
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If by "a bunch" you mean like 4?

SK consists of "less than 5 people," including Dyack himself. This tidbit was posted within the last month here on GAF. Dyack's ego probably cost plenty of people their jobs long before this happened (see: internal X-Men Destiny/ED2 resources debacle).
Ah, I didn't realize that. I guess I should have used the past tense. I think the death of independent console developers is a damned shame. And the environment is tough enough without trying to survive self-inflicted wounds from egomaniacs.
 

demigod

Member
Apr 17, 2007
8,514
7,347
1,465
lol, serves them right. Trying to sue for money and end up screwing themselves.
 

tkscz

Member
Oct 17, 2011
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Ok, past the GameCube age and besides Too Human and X-men destiny, what else did SK even make? I mean it, I don't know anything else they made and Too Human wasn't even worth while.
 

Gadirok

Member
Mar 23, 2012
2,724
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Canada should pay Epic now, it is only fair.
You kidding me? I'm going to be pretty pissed off if this comes out of taxpayers money. They gave off enough to Silicon Knights in the first place. The only reason they continued to exist on the map.

I was never really fond of either but I hope SK just goes bankrupt and the developers raise another studio.
 

Cheerilee

Member
Apr 14, 2005
10,013
1
0
You kidding me? I'm going to be pretty pissed off if this comes out of taxpayers money. They gave off enough to Silicon Knights in the first place. The only reason they continued to exist on the map.

I was never really fond of either but I hope SK just goes bankrupt and the developers raise another studio.
http://www.vg247.com/2012/03/31/silicon-knights-confused-over-canadian-government-withholding-grant-money/

“We announced a conditional funding agreement with Silicon Knights on July 14, 2011. Because the company has not yet met the conditions of the agreement, no funding has been provided."

Dyack responded to the government’s statement, stating he was confused over such an accusation, as the development firm felt it had “met all the conditions for the grant.”
 

Treemonkeys

Member
Mar 12, 2010
802
0
0
You guys think existing copies will continue to be recognized by XBL with achievements and such? Does the game have multiplayer? I always was a little intrigued by the demo but never purchased due to all the negative word of mouth about they game, after this however I'm going to go look for a used copy.
 

mbmonk

Member
Jun 17, 2009
3,604
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So who has/gets the right to IP Too Human? MS? Epic? *I am assuming this will bankrupt the dev studio*.
 

KojiKnight

Member
May 24, 2012
20,246
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630
You guys think existing copies will continue to be recognized by XBL with achievements and such? Does the game have multiplayer? I always was a little intrigued by the demo but never purchased due to all the negative word of mouth about they game, after this however I'm going to go look for a used copy.
I think under the agreement those copies will soon cease to exist (XBLA versions) and they'll get refunded at SK's expense.
 
Oct 27, 2011
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I had a copy of Too Human a few years back, never played it and sold it on eBay. It weirdly sold for like double what I thought it would. Granted, that only meant a return of about $6, but still.
 

Xenon

Member
You don't understand. Developers are free to modify the engine, but silicon knights terminated their license agreement, and used parts of the engine anyway - without paying Epic.
There was also the fact that removed Epic's copyright information from the code and did not credit Epic via a little splash screen at the start of the game which were probably clearly defined in the contract they signed.

I think morally SK had a very valid issue. Being a game-developer and licensing a game engine is a huge conflict of interest. It basically puts them in direct competition with their customers. The fact that they released their first game without the same issues most of the other developers had shows that SK had a valid case. Had Denis stuck with the U3 or actually created their own engine he may have had a leg to stand on. But like everything else he has done, while he may have a point, he goes about acting on it in completely the wrong way.


The sad thing is had SK not sued Epic, I don't think they would have pursued any legal action against Silicon Knights. Now their hand is almost forced to make an example out of them.
 
Apr 3, 2007
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Are any of those games even good? I've only heard of too human.

Edit: Most don't even exist yet, that's why I never heard of them.