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December NBA Season Thread - Fuck the police

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AstroLad said:
Nash is probably the best possible player in the world you could have added to that team just based on improving the entire team. It's just a whole new level with him out there.

A good point guard will have a huge impact on any team. It is definitely the hardest position to play in basketball.

Strange that the point guard is pretty much synonymous with a NFL qb and yet in the NBA point guards rarely get the credit they deserve, people are too fascinated with big guys and shooting guards.
 
<looks at last sequence under the basket at Portland's end>


You know, it's funny that they're calling touchy fouls out on the perimeter in an effort to "crack down" and increase scoring etc., yet they still allow guys to get away with absolute MURDER under the boards late in games with no call. There were literally about 8 fouls on those rebound attempts.
 
bionic77 said:
A good point guard will have a huge impact on any team. It is definitely the hardest position to play in basketball.

Strange that the point guard is pretty much synonymous with a NFL qb and yet in the NBA point guards rarely get the credit they deserve, people are too fascinated with big guys and shooting guards.

Yeah, but imo Nash is better for this team than Kidd or Marbury when they were here (granted it's a different cast now than Kidd's), his playing style is just so perfectly-suited to the team it's almost impossible to think of how they were w/o him (and w/ Marbury).
 
Loki said:
<looks at last sequence under the basket at Portland's end>


You know, it's funny that they're calling touchy fouls out on the perimeter in an effort to "crack down" and increase scoring etc., yet they still allow guys to get away with absolute MURDER under the boards late in games with no call. There were literally about 8 fouls on those rebound attempts.

Not to bail the refs out, but it is really hard to ref any bball game, and it is even harder to see what is going on under the boards.
 
AstroLad said:
Yeah, but imo Nash is better for this team than Kidd or Marbury when they were here (granted it's a different cast now than Kidd's), his playing style is just so perfectly-suited to the team it's almost impossible to think of how they were w/o him (and w/ Marbury).

Dude don't even include Marbury in that conversation, that is a huge diss to guys like Nash and Kidd.

You are right that Kidd didn't have that kind of impact, but I don't think he had this kind of talent around him either.
 
bionic77 said:
Dude don't even include Marbury in that conversation, that is a huge diss to guys like Nash and Kidd.

You are right that Kidd didn't have that kind of impact, but I don't think he had this kind of talent around him either.

Just going through the progression of Suns PGs. Yes, Marbury sucks, but that doesn't change the fact that we were stuck with him.
 
Not to bail the refs out, but it is really hard to ref any bball game, and it is even harder to see what is going on under the boards.

Like Loki said, Ratliff got murdered under the hoop but they bit the whistles while calling a BS touch foul on the other end for Boozer :lol
 
W L PCT GB HM RD CONF DIV PF PA STRK L10
1 Seattle 17 3 .850 - 9-0 8-3 10-2 4-1 100.7 93.7 Won 4 8-2
2 Phoenix 17 3 .850 - 8-2 9-1 9-2 4-1 108.9 97.5 Won 4 9-1
3 San Antonio 16 5 .762 1 ½ 8-1 8-4 7-4 2-2 95.3 84.8 Lost 2 8-2
4 Minnesota 13 6 .684 3 ½ 5-3 8-3 10-3 0-2 101.2 96.1 Won 2 7-3
5 Sacramento 13 6 .684 3 ½ 9-1 4-5 7-6 2-0 102.7 99.8 Lost 1 8-2
6 Denver 12 7 .632 4 ½ 9-4 3-3 4-6 1-3 94.1 93.5 Won 4 8-2
7 Dallas 13 8 .619 4 ½ 7-5 6-3 9-6 4-2 98.7 95.7 Lost 1 5-5
8 LA Clippers 11 7 .611 5 7-4 4-3 4-5 3-2 97.2 92.6 Won 1 6-4
LA Lakers 10 8 .556 6 7-3 3-5 6-6 2-3 97.1 96.6 Lost 1 6-4
Portland 9 8 .529 6 ½ 6-3 3-5 3-5 1-1 90.5 90.8 Won 1 6-4
Houston 9 11 .450 8 5-5 4-6 7-6 4-1 87.1 88.9 Won 3 5-5
Utah 8 11 .421 8 ½ 4-6 4-5 5-5 2-1 96.8 97.4 Lost 6 2-8
Memphis 8 13 .381 9 ½ 5-5 3-8 5-9 1-4 93.4 94.1 Lost 1 3-7
Golden State 5 14 .263 11 ½ 4-7 1-7 1-12 0-5 92.6 98.9 Lost 2 3-7
New Orleans 1 17 .056 15 0-9 1-8 1-11 0-2 86.1 93.9 Lost 9 1-9
 
The Suns and Sonics are tough to beat cos they put 5 scorers on the court pretty much all game. Teams need to learn that you CANNOT help off anybody on those teams...

PS: 20 games in, I gotta say the T-Wolves are the best team in the league...
 
bionic77 said:
You are right that Kidd didn't have that kind of impact, but I don't think he had this kind of talent around him either.

It's interesting, actually, because, in terms of what kind of players they eventually became, Kidd did have that kind of talent when he was in Phoenix-- thing is, they were all too early along in their development at the time. Their roster at the time included:


Michael Finley
Steve Nash
Antonio McDyess
Cliff Robinson
Rex Chapman (gunner)
Wes Person (13.5 ppg and 42% on 3's)
Danny Manning (solid all-around banger)
Robert Horry
Cedric Ceballos (a 15 ppg scorer at the time)
Kevin Johnson (I'm reasonably sure that the team had Kidd, Nash, AND KJ for at least a 20 game stretch that season-- 1997 I believe)


And some other quality second-stringers. As you can see, it was a pretty solid squad. I'm almost certain that Kidd was the starting PG for the team and Nash was the backup PG for at least a season or two (Nash's rookie season).
 
Loki said:
It's interesting, actually, because, in terms of what kind of players they eventually became, Kidd did have that kind of talent when he was in Phoenix-- thing is, they were all too early along in their development at the time. Their roster at the time included:


Michael Finley
Steve Nash
Antonio McDyess
Cliff Robinson
Rex Chapman (gunner)
Wes Person (13.5 ppg and 42% on 3's)
Danny Manning (solid all-around banger)
Robert Horry
Cedric Ceballos (a 15 ppg scorer at the time)
Kevin Johnson (I'm reasonably sure that the team had Kidd, Nash, AND KJ for at least a 20 game stretch that season-- 1997 I believe)


And some other quality second-stringers. As you can see, it was a pretty solid squad. I'm almost certain that Kidd was the starting PG for the team and Nash was the backup PG for at least a season or two (Nash's rookie season).

That is a lot of talent, but it is not spread out to every position. That team seems way too small to compete in the West (even back when Kidd was out west).

Damn, KJ still played in 97? Did he still have any game? I remember when the Blazers totally lucked out against the Suns in the playoffs when KJ got hurt, damn he could really play when he was younger.
 
Loki said:
It's interesting, actually, because, in terms of what kind of players they eventually became, Kidd did have that kind of talent when he was in Phoenix-- thing is, they were all too early along in their development at the time. Their roster at the time included:


Michael Finley
Steve Nash
Antonio McDyess
Cliff Robinson
Rex Chapman (gunner)
Wes Person (13.5 ppg and 42% on 3's)
Danny Manning (solid all-around banger)
Robert Horry
Cedric Ceballos (a 15 ppg scorer at the time)
Kevin Johnson (I'm reasonably sure that the team had Kidd, Nash, AND KJ for at least a 20 game stretch that season-- 1997 I believe)


And some other quality second-stringers. As you can see, it was a pretty solid squad. I'm almost certain that Kidd was the starting PG for the team and Nash was the backup PG for at least a season or two (Nash's rookie season).

The Suns had a really funny stretch there at one point. Sam Cassell? OK! I think at some point in there we may have had Latrell. Robert Horry? Sure! (until he threw a towel at least) :lol
 
bionic77 said:
That is a lot of talent, but it is not spread out to every position. That team seems way too small to compete in the West (even back when Kidd was out west).

Damn, KJ still played in 97? Did he still have any game? I remember when the Blazers totally lucked out against the Suns in the playoffs when KJ got hurt, damn he could really play when he was younger.

The only position that was lacking is center, just like the problem they have currently. :P McDyess was formidable, even then (I think that was his rookie or soph year)-- as good as Amare offensively when he got the touches, MUCH better than Amare defensively. McDyess would have been one of the top 3 PF's in the league by now if it weren't for the injuries.


And yeah, KJ still had game then: 20.1 points and 9.3 assists per game in 1997. In my opinion, he was always one of the most underrated PG's ever-- what he did against Seattle in the '94 playoffs was brutal (back-to-back 44+ point, 8+ assist games to close it out iirc). Guys like KJ and Mark Price would OWN today's PG's.
 
wasn't Kidd traded for Nash? and the yea they had Kevin Johnson was, IIRC, when Jason Kidd broke his leg around midseason, and they talked KJ out of retirement to hold down the fort until Kidd got back in the playoffs.
 
Nah, the Suns drafted Nash. They traded Kidd for Marbury. Can't remember who they traded Nash to the Mavs for though...
 
Cloudy said:
Nah, the Suns drafted Nash. They traded Kidd for Marbury. Can't remember who they traded Nash to the Mavs for though...

no i mean Kidd was originally a Mav, and they traded him to the Suns. I thought the Mavs got Nash back in return, but the more i think about it im not so sure. Maybe Finley was involved in that trade going to Dallas.
 
Cloudy said:
Nah, the Suns drafted Nash. They traded Kidd for Marbury. Can't remember who they traded Nash to the Mavs for though...

Phoenix Suns traded Steve Nash to the Dallas Mavericks for Martin Muursepp, Bubba Wells the draft rights to Pat Garrity and a 1st round selection in 1999 (Marion, I believe it turned out to be).
 
Ninja Scooter said:
wasn't Kidd traded for Nash? and the yea they had Kevin Johnson was, IIRC, when Jason Kidd broke his leg around midseason, and they talked KJ out of retirement to hold down the fort until Kidd got back in the playoffs.

Hmm...could be. Though like I said, I'm reasonably certain that Kidd and KJ-- if not Kidd, Nash, and KJ-- all played together for at least a while. Your idea would make sense, though, because Kidd was on Dallas prior to his stint w/Phoenix, and that's where Nash ended up. So it may have been a Nash-for-Kidd trade that landed Kidd on Phoenix (along with other players, obviously, because Nash was shite at that point). Actually, I know for a fact that KJ and Kidd played together, because (ta-da :D) I have a Bulls/Suns game on tape from '97 where Kidd and KJ are swapped in and out, and sometimes play the backcourt together. <cue DM's "it's a trap!" jpeg> :P


EDIT: Guess I was wrong going by Astrolad's post. Seems Kidd, KJ, and Nash all played on Phoenix at the same time. :D
 
I will never get sick of seeing Quick Change perform during half time at NBA games. :D
 
Loki said:
Man, the addition of Nash has helped Stoudamire beyond measure. Yeah, he would've been better this year, but it wouldn't have been anything like this current jump from sorta-second string PF (i.e., a 15/8 guy), to a world-beater averaging 24/10. Crazy. He should give Nash half his salary. :D

Not saying Nash isn't greatly helping everyone's game, but you are definitely underestimating Amare. In his injury plagued second season (where he missed almost 30 games) Amare averaged 20.6 ppg and 9 rpg, that's not exactly second-string PF numbers. So as it appears Amare is going through his natural progression (with some definite help from Nash).
 
tmaccomebackdt3pe.jpg
 
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/2942524

Heat center's calls motivate Rocket against Mavericks, Spurs
By MEGAN MANFULL
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle


The Rockets may need to consider adding Shaquille O'Neal to their payroll. Not as a player, but as a consultant. He would be paid simply to call and criticize his buddy, Tracy McGrady, before every game.

So far, O'Neal has made that phone call twice. The first time was before the Dallas game Dec. 2. Guard Tyronn Lue gave McGrady a message that the Miami Heat center said McGrady should step up his game. That night, McGrady had a season-high 48 points.

The second time was before the San Antonio game Thursday night. McGrady hadn't scored more than 18 points in either of the two games since his 48-point outburst. O'Neal, a teammate of Lue's in Los Angeles, called Lue again and told him to tell McGrady to wake up.

As O'Neal watched the nationally televised game, it was evident his message had reached McGrady. The Rockets' star orchestrated a stunning comeback by scoring 13 points in the final 35 seconds to give the Rockets an 81-80 victory over the Spurs.

The Rockets became the first team to overcome a double-digit deficit in the final minute and win since Dallas registered a 104-97 overtime win over Chicago on March 12, 1998.


Big brother's watching
Amid the postgame jubilation, McGrady couldn't help but think of O'Neal.

"After the game, he was definitely in the back of my mind," McGrady said. "I was definitely going to call him and ask him if he saw the game. He knows how I play. He's watched me. He's like my big brother. And he told Ty Lue to tell me to stop playing ?I don't want to say it on camera ?but to stop playing like a girl.

"I talked to him last night, and he was all excited because he was watching the game. He was saying, 'That's what I'm talking about. You should have been doing that.' "

McGrady stayed up until 4 a.m. Friday fielding calls from friends, family and fellow NBA players. He also watched the replay of his performance over and over.

By Friday afternoon, however, McGrady had shifted his focus. He smiled and shrugged when asked if everything from Thursday night had sunk in.

"I understand what I did last night, but I don't get over-excited about things like that," he said. "I just move on. It was great.

"It was a great individual performance. But at the same time, we are still below .500. When you're below .500 like that, it kind of takes away from what happened last night. But I also think something positive can come out of it, and it can be the start of a new beginning for this team."

That's what the rest of his teammates hope, too. They are at a critical point in the season, spending almost the entire month of December at home. The Rockets have won the first three games of the homestand and have another important game tonight against the Mavericks.

Houston and Dallas met last week, with Dirk Nowitzki outdueling McGrady by scoring 53 points in the Mavericks' 113-106 overtime victory.

:lol
 
DMczaf said:

The Rockets may need to consider adding Shaquille O'Neal to their payroll. Not as a player, but as a consultant. He would be paid simply to call and criticize his buddy, Tracy McGrady, before every game.

So far, O'Neal has made that phone call twice. The first time was before the Dallas game Dec. 2. Guard Tyronn Lue gave McGrady a message that the Miami Heat center said McGrady should step up his game. That night, McGrady had a season-high 48 points.

The second time was before the San Antonio game Thursday night. McGrady hadn't scored more than 18 points in either of the two games since his 48-point outburst. O'Neal, a teammate of Lue's in Los Angeles, called Lue again and told him to tell McGrady to wake up.

As O'Neal watched the nationally televised game, it was evident his message had reached McGrady. The Rockets' star orchestrated a stunning comeback by scoring 13 points in the final 35 seconds to give the Rockets an 81-80 victory over the Spurs.
Too bad mcgrady can't motivate himself :lol
 
BatiGOOOOOOL said:
OH, FOR FUCKS SAKE!

*cries in the corner*

:lol

This is starting to come close to putting the Lakers fans postseason theatrics to shame. We usually went apeshit when the Lakers pulled a rabbit out of their ass in a game that counted.* I just hope for Rocket fans that they have something else to celebrate over the coure of the season, you don't want to reach your high point in December. :D


*This does not include Konex splooging over 50 point games by Kobe, because he is a Kobe fan and not a Laker fan.
 
Poody said:
Too bad mcgrady can't motivate himself :lol

The funny thing is pretty soon Shaq will really start to believe that he was a major part of T-Mac making all of those shots. I doubt any team ever had 3 bigger egos then the Lakers with Phil, Kobe, and Shaq.
 
Poody said:
Too bad mcgrady can't motivate himself :lol

I think it's less motivation and more like fear. He saw how Shaq got the media to turn on Kobe, so he obeys every word Shaq says. I think calling him "big brother" is a cry for help, saying "big brother" is controlling him.

oneal_295_040215.jpg


Save T-Mac :(
 
Now Shaq is taking credit for Tmac too? I bet he's also the reason why Wade is dominating (everyone will conveniently forget how dude was putting up similar numbers last year when he wasn't hurt) :lol
 
Cloudy said:
Now Shaq is taking credit for Tmac too? I bet he's also the reason why Wade is dominating (everyone will conveniently forget how dude was putting up similar numbers last year when he wasn't hurt) :lol

Um, No...

'03-'04 - 16.2 Pts, 4.5 Ast, 4.1 Reb
'04-'05 (through 21 games) - 24.0 Pts, 7.5 Ast, 5.7 Reb
 
He is playing more minutes now and his game obviously benefits from the no hand-check rules. Wade is totally carrying that team. Shaq is not a factor in his success :)
 
Cloudy said:
He is playing more minutes now and his game obviously benefits from the no hand-check rules. Wade is totally carrying that team. Shaq is not a factor in his success :)

34.9 MPG to 39.0 MPG is not a big jump in minutes, IMO. I do think his numbers from '03-'04 were limited because he missed 21 games, but still, I think he is benefitting from Shaq being in the paint.
 
Ok, maybe Shaq demands some attention in the paint but I've watched many Heat games and I honestly think Wade would put up these numbers with any decent center. His game is based on breaking his man down and taking it to the rack so not too many PGs can guard him straight up. If you don't make him shoot the ball, he'll kill you. Only way to stop him is with a good perimeter defender or double team which leaves someone open.

Hey, all Kobe's numbers have gone up. Is that cos of Shaq too? Wait, it probably is :lol
 
Cloudy said:
Hey, all Kobe's numbers have gone up. Is that cos of Shaq too? Wait, it probably is :lol

Of course, now instead of the shots being distributed as 40% Kobe/40% Shaq/20% scrubs it's 90% Kobe/10% scrubs ;)
 
Cloudy said:
Ok, maybe Shaq demands some attention in the paint but I've watched many Heat games and I honestly think Wade would put up these numbers with any decent center. His game is based on breaking his man down and taking it to the rack so not too many PGs can guard him straight up. If you don't make him shoot the ball, he'll kill you. Only way to stop him is with a good perimeter defender or double team which leaves someone open.

Hey, all Kobe's numbers have gone up. Is that cos of Shaq too? Wait, it probably is :lol

Man all your Shaq hate makes me almost like him, and I usually hate Shaq.

end1.jpeg
 
Bowser said:
Of course, now instead of the shots being distributed as 40% Kobe/40% Shaq/20% scrubs it's 90% Kobe/10% scrubs ;)

Kobe's FGA are way lower than 02-03 and about the same as last year. Try again :D
 
But seriously, if Shaq is soooo vital, why aren't Kobe's stats dropping off and why does Wade have pretty much the same #s in the games Shaq's been out? Shaq is like the most overrated player ever! :D
 
Cloudy said:
But seriously, if Shaq is soooo vital, why aren't Kobe's stats dropping off and why does Wade have pretty much the same #s in the games Shaq's been out? Shaq is like the most overrated player ever! :D

Shaq has missed games? News to me.
 
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