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[Ascend]

Depends only if developers will start imlementing those features via DX12/Vulcan and not with Nvidia extensions.
The big issue everyone doesn't seem to notice is performance impact.

Console gpus will be at best mid range gpus. RTX currently with 2060 is abysmall you need at least 2070 which cost more than new next gen console and then some.

I think you could reasonably expect some small time ray tracing fixed function hardware but it won't be huge. It will be more like raytracing for shooting few rays to establish what is happening in scene and some software function to smear rays effects on objects.

Killzone devs used ray tracing for its voxel global illumination to tell voxels what to do. With such setup you don't need many rays but you can't do stuff like precise shadows.

Voxel Cone tracing is not the same as ray tracing. In ray tracing, the 'rays' have no thickness. Voxel cone tracing introduces a very 'thick' cone for the calculations, meaning it's low resolution. You are right about it not being precise.

nVidia's extension is by default inefficient. Consoles are indeed mid range, and for ray tracing to be viable, they have to be efficient. They can't brute force everything in consoles like nVidia loves to do. That's why console ray tracing will be very different than nVidia's RTX, and honestly, there is a bigger chance of RTX being dumped than the consoles version of Ray Tracing.

Intel has announced ray tracing for DX11.... And it works on ANY GPU. That puts a huge dent in nVidia's marketing for their ray tracing gimmick;

Intel topples Nvidia's ray tracing monopoly in World of Tanks

Ray tracing for (almost) all

www.techradar.com

And lastly;

 

[demigod]

woops wrong thread.

 

[ethomaz]

Seems like some have good taste to eat crows

 

[Bryank75]

This was already known. PS5 only has Software based RT. It’s the same as this gen:

Xbox oneX native 4K
PS4 pro checkerboard crap fake 4K

Oh dear..... didn't age well.

 

[Jigsaah]

Oh dear..... didn't age well.

Well the "Faux-k" is still a thing on the pro in more cases than not. I been saying since the onset that there isn't going to be a special sauce this gen. Lessons have been learned and neither platform is gonna skimp next gen. It's all gonna come down to price and games. I used to say power as well, but not anymore. These systems will be essentially equivalent for the price.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

This was already known. PS5 only has Software based RT. It’s the same as this gen:

Xbox oneX native 4K
PS4 pro checkerboard crap fake 4K

I think you are out of date in your rumors, MS has only been clearer about their intentions, given they were also pretty clear about their intentions about VR support on the xboX in the past I wouldn't assume anything at this point. They also bragged about using virtual memory in their upcoming console as if that was a new technology.

Well the "Faux-k" is still a thing on the pro in more cases than not. I been saying since the onset that there isn't going to be a special sauce this gen. Lessons have been learned and neither platform is gonna skimp next gen. It's all gonna come down to price and games. I used to say power as well, but not anymore. These systems will be essentially equivalent for the price.

I think you should keep power in your factors list as well, otherwise why else would we get a "next generation" at all. But I do get your argument, assuming there is only a negligible power difference, or even a substantial one - but let's say either Sony has a drought of ground breaking exclusives, and MS somehoe get gud at releasing notable exclusives, power would not be the defining factor.

Same if either platform's content offering remains equivalent to what they are now, Sony will just win, I don't even think MS would get the chance to be competitive in the US if they don't fix their exclusivity situation.

Console power is always a tricky thing to weight in as a factor in buying purchases, last gen (PS4/XBO) we had a pretty clear cut choice:

• Both machines released at the same time.
• The PS4 was clearly more powerful.
• There was no notable exclusives title for a while (maybe Titan Fall was the earliest good one on Xbox (but it also was on the 360), I'd argue that Killzone:SF was good enough, but nothing to pull people in, maybe the Forza game helped too).. the list wars sucked back then! and Sony had a constant stream of console exclusive indies, which made a difference for me early on.
• MS had a couple of policies that made their platform less tempting.
• The PS4 was 100$ cheaper

I'm not sure how else things could have turned out.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Voxel Cone tracing is not the same as ray tracing. In ray tracing, the 'rays' have no thickness. Voxel cone tracing introduces a very 'thick' cone for the calculations, meaning it's low resolution. You are right about it not being precise.

Yes, well depending on the size of the voxels and how they end up being implemented it's like a patterned noise, it doesn't render the whole image on every frame, then some technique is used to fill in the blanks.

I don't think the technique used in Killzone SF was as complex, in fact I just don't know, but it certainly looked pretty close (but had limited use in the game).

 

[meirl]

Oh dear..... didn't age well.

Again, where does he say that he is using DEDICATED ray tracing hardware cores? No where. Why? Because they don’t. They just use the GPU. Every GPU could do ray tracing. Doesn’t mean anything.

The trick is to have DEDICATED ray tracing hardware core!l, which the next Xbox WILL do, whereas the PS5 Will NOT do.

 

[Bryank75]

Again, where does he say that he is using DEDICATED ray tracing hardware cores? No where. Why? Because they don’t. They just use the GPU. Every GPU could do ray tracing. Doesn’t mean anything.

The trick is to have DEDICATED ray tracing hardware core!l, which the next Xbox WILL do, whereas the PS5 Will NOT do.

Sure, keep believing that... Xbox gamers have had to live in imagination land for quite a while now!

 

[HolyTruth]

Something, something on XboneX Gears 5 1080p at minimum, something, something 1800p max. during gameplay. Yeah, that's native 4k i presume.

are you referring to RDR2? Because that's native 4K all the time on XBOX ONE X, whereas on PS4 PRO its a blurry sub-4k mess.
Also, gears 5 is a shooter, WHERE FPS IS KING, it's 60 FPS all the time, so I take that over res all the time playing a FPS game

 

[meirl]

Sure, keep believing that... Xbox gamers have had to live in imagination land for quite a while now!

Tell me. If they are using DEDICATED hardware cores for RT, tell me now why they are NOT saying it? EVERY COMPANY that is using DEDICATED hardware cores for RT are saying that.... if Sony would do it, they would say it, too.
And you know, no need to try to distract with some bullshit video. Pathetic.
Just admit it that you are wrong bro
It’s ok grow up and be a man

 

[ethomaz]

Tell me. If they are using DEDICATED hardware cores for RT, tell me now why they are NOT saying it? EVERY COMPANY that is using DEDICATED hardware cores for RT are saying that.... if Sony would do it, they would say it, too.
And you know, no need to try to distract with some bullshit video. Pathetic.
Just admit it that you are wrong bro
It’s ok grow up and be a man

It is the same lol
It is time to face the reality and grow up.

 

[ZywyPL]

The rtx cards have been out for a year and it seems nobody wants to support it unless nvidia is paying, so I doubt it. See what happened to physx in Borderlands 3... no paycheck, they´re gone.

PC is a secondary platform, consoles are where the money is, and sice both next-gen consoles are getting RT support it's more than obvious it'll become more common,, not to say mainstream.

 

[ResilientBanana]

PC is a secondary platform, consoles are where the money is, and sice both next-gen consoles are getting RT support it's more than obvious it'll become more common,, not to say mainstream.

To your point, I believe this will mean that more developers and Game Engine companies will start creating their own "cheap" methods to accomplish this task to lower the hardware requirements to get this done, epecially since it will be more widely available and making the investment worthwhile for them.

The analogy would be Windows Phone Apps vs Android Apps, why would you develop for an end user that barely exists?

 

[lukilladog]

PC is a secondary platform, consoles are where the money is, and sice both next-gen consoles are getting RT support it's more than obvious it'll become more common,, not to say mainstream.

These days PC gathers as much money as all consoles put together, but consoles are the lowest common denominator, so they have to focus on them. We will see how much support RT gets in general.

 

[ZywyPL]

These days PC gathers as much money as all consoles put together, but consoles are the lowest common denominator, so they have to focus on them. We will see how much support RT gets in general.

Revenue alone isn't a good metric IMO, because you have games like League of Legends for example not available elsewhere, which generate billions of dollars each year while providing nothing in terms of the multi -platform support. But if we take a look at games that are available on all three platforms (PC, XB, PS) and their respective sales, it's pretty obvious why PC is getting so little proper support, sometimes the devs don't even bother removing the FPS lock... Now imagine there are teens-tens of millions of RT-capable consoles being sold each year, with millions of copies of the game titles being sold, the question is not if, but when will RT become mandatory to run games on PC. My guess is somewhere 5-6 years from now.

 

[Jigsaah]

I think you are out of date in your rumors, MS has only been clearer about their intentions, given they were also pretty clear about their intentions about VR support on the xboX in the past I wouldn't assume anything at this point. They also bragged about using virtual memory in their upcoming console as if that was a new technology.

I think you should keep power in your factors list as well, otherwise why else would we get a "next generation" at all. But I do get your argument, assuming there is only a negligible power difference, or even a substantial one - but let's say either Sony has a drought of ground breaking exclusives, and MS somehoe get gud at releasing notable exclusives, power would not be the defining factor.

Same if either platform's content offering remains equivalent to what they are now, Sony will just win, I don't even think MS would get the chance to be competitive in the US if they don't fix their exclusivity situation.

Console power is always a tricky thing to weight in as a factor in buying purchases, last gen (PS4/XBO) we had a pretty clear cut choice:

• Both machines released at the same time.
• The PS4 was clearly more powerful.
• There was no notable exclusives title for a while (maybe Titan Fall was the earliest good one on Xbox (but it also was on the 360), I'd argue that Killzone:SF was good enough, but nothing to pull people in, maybe the Forza game helped too).. the list wars sucked back then! and Sony had a constant stream of console exclusive indies, which made a difference for me early on.
• MS had a couple of policies that made their platform less tempting.
• The PS4 was 100$ cheaper

I'm not sure how else things could have turned out.

Well I mean power between both consoles is going to be important obviously. The thing I'm sayin is just that, the systems are going to be roughly equivalent. Think about it. If the systems now can hit 4k 60fps with some caveats at times (checkerboarding), who's going to really think the next gen systems won't completely nail that. I mean, raytracing is another added factor that has been shown to drastically reduce FPS for the sake of cool reflections but I wouldn't be surprised if there are options to turn raytracing off in the menu.

Even with the ps4 being more powerful, there was still overhead. The consoles were released last year either at-cost or at a profit. They didn't give us the power we could have had, if they were willing to eat that profit and sell at a loss as they have in past generations. People have argued that the Pro and the X should have been the launch systems for this gen. Instead, the industry is constantly double dipping. Mid gen refreshes and subsequent remasters and xbox enhanced versions of current and last generation games are all examples of this.

The difference this time is that there are very obviously changes that are happening. The difference between consoles and pc...the line is getting even more blurry. Brand new feature for PC are gonna be on console within a year and a half of their release (Ray tracing). What this tells us is that Sony and Microsoft aren't fuckin around this time. They know what's at stake, especially with new types of competition in streaming.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

are you referring to RDR2? Because that's native 4K all the time on XBOX ONE X, whereas on PS4 PRO its a blurry sub-4k mess.
Also, gears 5 is a shooter, WHERE FPS IS KING, it's 60 FPS all the time, so I take that over res all the time playing a FPS game

RDR 2 also can be a shooter too.. But 30 fps with heavy input-lag is king i guess. But who cares, give me a 4k in open world.
Btw. Rockstar fucked up a checkerboard technique on Pro, that's why is a "blurry mess" There are also open world games on Pro with outstanding checkerboard technique.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

These days PC gathers as much money as all consoles put together, but consoles are the lowest common denominator, so they have to focus on them. We will see how much support RT gets in general.

How about those people who still rock their 750tis or intel graphics on their core i3 (or even some AMD APUs?). Low specs PCs are holding back PC gaming as much or more than consoles.

 

[lukilladog]

Revenue alone isn't a good metric IMO, because you have games like League of Legends for example not available elsewhere, which generate billions of dollars each year while providing nothing in terms of the multi -platform support. But if we take a look at games that are available on all three platforms (PC, XB, PS) and their respective sales, it's pretty obvious why PC is getting so little proper support, sometimes the devs don't even bother removing the FPS lock... Now imagine there are teens-tens of millions of RT-capable consoles being sold each year, with millions of copies of the game titles being sold, the question is not if, but when will RT become mandatory to run games on PC. My guess is somewhere 5-6 years from now.

I don´t even see a correlation between great sales on PC and a wish to support latest video card features. We will see if it gains any traction on consoles.

 

[lukilladog]

How about those people who still rock their 750tis or intel graphics on their core i3 (or even some AMD APUs?). Low specs PCs are holding back PC gaming as much or more than consoles.

On triple A multiplatform games, they usually develop PC ports on the hardware that Nvidia and AMD give to them, if it runs well on older weaker hardware, it´s by accident.