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[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Yes it does. This is the reality of your two-party system, as much as it sucks. Denying it won't change the reality.


Exactly. And, as backslashbunny points out, when that happens, everyone suffers (except rich whites).

Laughing at you telling me shit about "my country"

Maybe not everyone is willing to give up and settle for a half-assed two party system where they get shit on repeatedly.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Also this is about Black Women not Black folk in general... the decrease was from Black men not black women

If anyone is to blame for Trump's dastardly white nationalist-driven win, to the dropping jaws of many, clouds can't be sent over black women (at least not according to the exit polls). Sisters may have instinctively felt the approaching electoral freight train—perhaps that same way in which worried black mothers, for centuries, have given racial-warning pep talks to black children, bracing for dreams deferred. But as data show, they turned out rather solidly for Hillary Clinton: Ninety-four percent of black female voters broke for the Democratic nominee, compared with only 4 percent for Republican nominee Donald Trump.

Support for Clinton was just 2 percentage points less than the overwhelming 96 percent black female support that President Barack Obama received in both 2008 and 2012. As for black men, some of them weren't feeling the notion of a first female president: Thirteen percent voted for Trump.

http://www.theroot.com/black-women-were-the-only-ones-who-tried-to-save-the-wo-1790857646

2016 Exit poll: http://www.cnn.com/election/results/exit-polls/national/president
2012 Exit poll: http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/results/race/president/#

From 96% to 94% Democrat between 2012 and 2016
From 3% to 4% Republican between 2012 and 2016


Conversely: Black men went from 87% to 82% Democrat and 11% to 13% Republican.

Like I said this topic can't be fought by just blaming the Establishment or using the election result to try and tie this into a Clinton failure. Many of the issues (possibly most?) are coming post election. That's important to remember.

 

[thepotatoman]

2% for each.... from a whopping 6 to 8 for Black folk and from a back breaking 27 to 29 for Hispanics.

There was no Trump minority waive

https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/groups-voted-2016/
https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/how-groups-voted-2012/

With that exact same metric and data, Whites went 1% away from Trump. Hillary losing 2% is combines it to 1% point swing toward Trump.

That data also shows a move from 93 to 88 Black and 71 to 65 Hispanic move from obama to clinton. Combining it with the plus 2% for trump makes it a 7% and an a 8% point swing, like I said.

It is true most of that move from any race was men.

In any case, I do think it's a severe overcorrection to think the problem was that Hillary was too accepting of things like BLM.

 

[excelsiorlef]

With that exact same metric and data, Whites went 1% away from Trump. Hillary losing 2% is combines it to 1% point swing.

That data also shows a move from 93 to 88 and 71 to 65 from obama to clinton. Combining it with the plus 2% for trump makes it a 7% and an a 8% point swing, like I said.

You said a 7 and 8% swing towards Trump. That's not what it was at all. It was a 2 point gain for him, which you see in just about most other reporting of the number, the rest went third party. At best you can say it was a swing towards the third party., because that's where more of the change in Black male vote and Latino vote went third party or other. There's no minority surge towards Trump.

And none of the "swing" was in any way significantly from Black Women, the subject of this thread.

 

[NastyBook]

Nah....

Like you realize that you can't just get mad at the Establishment here and say it's all on them like you probably do everywhere else right?

This isn't about The Establishment or even the Status Quo it's about a fear post election of a shift away from black women... A lot of that shift is coming as much from the Sanders wing as anywhere else.

Like as much fun as it is for you to get mad at folks Pelosi and Schumer, who do their jobs, this isn't really a place where you should be pointing at them, because it ain't them.

I...huh?

 

[excelsiorlef]

I...huh?

If I misread what you said and you weren't talking about the newer factions of the party and the more established ones I apologize.

I probably lumped you in with a few others posters in here when I shouldn't have.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

What does all of this mean?

 

[Future]

Trumps win was almost solely due to tripling down on the republican core base. Democrats could probably learn a bit from that

 

[Kelsdesu]

Is Michelle our only hope?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Trumps win was almost solely due to tripling down on the republican core base. Democrats could probably learn a bit from that

Do Democrats have a monolithic base like Republicans? Is their base spread out all over the country like Republicans or would it be highly concentrated urban areas?

Some of you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[andythinkpad]

This is whats wrong with 2-party system.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Laughing at you telling me shit about "my country"

Laugh all you want, you're the one stuck with Trump in the meantime. Feel free to show evidence that I'm wrong. *shrugs*

Maybe not everyone is willing to give up and settle for a half-assed two party system where they get shit on repeatedly.

Not saying anyone should give up, but you need massive electoral reform for that, not idiotic vote abstention or "protest voting".

 

[theCalamity]

You are clueless. Obama only had a Congressional majority for two years until people voted it away from under him. And they managed to pass the ACA and the stimulus package in that time.

Look, I'm not saying that the electorate is always rational and smart, but Obama tapped into something visceral during his campaign. People wanted change and, unfortunately, the change people were looking for didn't happen or couldn't happen fast enough.

If Americans think one man can fix all of our country's problems within two years, and are willing to throw a spiteful temper tantrum if everything isn't magically all better by then, then we deserve a garbage government.

That's why we have Trump. That and virulent racism.

 

[Arkage]

Democrats aren't trying to win back white men that haven't voted for them in 50 years, they're trying to win back the not insubstantial number of white men (and women) that switched from Obama to Trump. This is especially true in swing states like PA that hadn't turned red since 1988. If you think these voters aren't worth flipping than you haven't been paying attention to how Trump won.

Doubling down on racial inequality will win Democrats nothing in 2018 or 2020, regardless if you view it as the most ethical choice. Hillary made BLM and black women a large pillar of the Democratic convention, but it didn't help her reach Obama's numbers.

 

[Angelus Errare]

It's not a two party problem. It's the two Parties that are the problem. Neither represents their base, but donors instead.

But sure, keep people like Pelosi and Schumer as leaders because they are good at big donor fundraising.

So...it's a two party problem? Because that outcome will happen time and time again as long as donors/big money has as much sway as it does.

Keep attacking Nina Turner that'll help.
.

Such a wild claim.

 

[NastyBook]

If I misread what you said and you weren't talking about the newer factions of the party and the more established ones I apologize.

I probably lumped you in with a few others posters in here when I shouldn't have.

Yeah, that post of mine was more geared towards the moderate voter than anything. I should've clarified.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Laugh all you want, you're the one stuck with Trump in the meantime. Feel free to show evidence that I'm wrong. *shrugs*


Not saying anyone should give up, but you need massive electoral reform for that, not idiotic vote abstention or "protest voting".

Sounds like you're assuming people aren't going to work for reform because they've thinking of no longer automatically voting D, so that's the end of the convo

 

[Renegade Frost]

The Democratic party needs to pay more attention to its minority members, who form a large part of the base. Democratic minority members need to accept that they can't win without white voters, too, which means sometimes focusing on areas that aren't significant for minority voters.

It doesn't have to be an either or. It cant be an either or. The numbers alone dictate that the Democratic party has to keep white voters, who may care about race issues but not prioritize them, in the party.

Everyone in the party needs to take a step back, look at what they're doing, and ask if it's going to lead to re-election for Democratic candidates. And that includes remembering that Democrats can't win without black and hispanic voters, too.

We either work together in coalition, or we all lose.

What good is progressive toelining if it wont liberate the masses from the clutches of white supremacy?

White supremacy is dangerous to everybody. Including white people. Eugenics and mass cullings changes the dynamic of social dynamic to an emaciated class of maladjusted and deformed elites

 

[Renegade Frost]

Who or what is this "Democratic party" anymore? Hillary? The DNC? Bernie? Nancy Pelosi? Us? Its identity has totally been torn apart. We point at this bogeyman - the Democratic party - and nobody seems to know what it is anymore.

The party that's defined itself with Citizens united

Yes it does. This is the reality of your two-party system, as much as it sucks. Denying it won't change the reality.


Exactly. And, as backslashbunny points out, when that happens, everyone suffers (except rich whites).

Dont make dumb arguments that amount to equalizing being a victim of voter suppression to being an active participant in the coronation of republicans

Interesting article and I agree with what was mentioned, but it also mentioned that the sample was biased.



I don't think we can use it to accurately determine how black women truly feel about the party without an unbiased sample.

You can account for bias with math/ Which this test did.

Black turnout was down fairly considerably across the board. If the option between Hillary Clinton and a racist old whtie man whos father was in the KKK isnt enough to get black voters out then im not sure anything is. As much as people dont want to hear it, recapturing the part of the white blue color demographic that voted democrat for decades is key to regaining the white house in 2020.







this is absolutely absurd.

That's also a demographic that doesnt exist anymore lol

Until Bernie drops his independent status and joins the party, he is not a Democrat. Being an outsider and tearing down all the progress the Dems have made of decades makes him just a dangerous to moving forward as Repubs. Working within the party would do a world of wonder for party unity.

The DEMOCRATS have not made any progress.

 

[Renegade Frost]

We're talking domestic, but sure. You can throw a burning tire fire into whatever conversation with that out.



Ok, buddy. When you can come back with a revised Killer Mike that didn't tell people to not vote when his candidate lost before the main event, then you can bring that cowards name back to the ring. Until then, he's no soothsayer, he's no truth sayer. He's said nothing of worth that a thousand others haven't said before him with a more relevant position for their time. Killer Mike is no Hero. He got his and said so plainly that he would be fine when it all falls apart. Fuck Killer Mike.

You are aware that trump won by 70k votes in predominantly white states in the rust belt right?

 

[KonradLaw]

I don't see why a huge party like Democrats can't at the same time make effort to appeal to their minority voters as well as try to get back white voters. I mean, if you want to rule such diverse country as USA you pretty much should be required to do both.
Politics are getting pretty divising these days. The current trend seems to be towards not having one monolithic image, but instead dedicating specific people into specific voters and specific issues instead of trying to have everyone cover everything.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The party that's defined itself with Citizens united

The Supreme Court ruling that came from a literal attack on Hillary Clinton and that every Democrat just about wants to overturn?

I don't see why a huge party like Democrats can't at the same time make effort to appeal to their minority voters as well as try to get back white voters. I mean, if you want to rule such diverse country as USA you pretty much should be required to do both.
Politics are getting pretty divising these days. The current trend seems to be towards not having one monolithic image, but instead dedicating specific people into specific voters and specific issues instead of trying to have everyone cover everything.

They can... but the current trend is to not.... That's what this current reaction is about. The lack of outreach to black women post election.

 

[kirblar]

I don't see why a huge party like Democrats can't at the same time make effort to appeal to their minority voters as well as try to get back white voters. I mean, if you want to rule such diverse country as USA you pretty much should be required to do both.
Politics are getting pretty divising these days. The current trend seems to be towards not having one monolithic image, but instead dedicating specific people into specific voters and specific issues instead of trying to have everyone cover everything.

The problem is that a subset of the white voters get very very angry when they see things targeted to people who aren't them. And unfortunately, they appear to be a significant part of the swing voters in the midwest/rust belt, making things really goddamn awkward.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The problem is that a subset of the white voters get very very angry when they see things targeted to people who aren't them. And unfortunately, they appear to be a significant part of the swing voters in the midwest/rust belt, making things really goddamn awkward.

This is also a huge problem yeah.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

If the two options are a) doing fuck all for you b) a brick to the face. I get not wanting to campaign and carry water for fuck all but it's a fuck tonne better than brick to the face.

A more apt analogy would be a) brick in the face b) a glass bottle over your head.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

A) A charismatic minority politician who can speak to minority issues without speaking to minority issues. Like Barack Obama (and to a lesser extent Jesse Jackson before him). Barack was able to pull together the Democratic coalition without scaring white people with overt and pesky talk about equality for people of color, because his support for minorities was more or less implied. Luckily, we have several prominent candidates preparing for 2020 who meet this criteria.

Speaking to minority issues without speaking to minority issues is the approach of a fraud. What you're comfortable doing explicitly/implicitly is a big deal. And what people like Obama don't understand is that no matter how hard they try to be the President of everyone and deemphasize minority issues people aren't going to like him. People are still going to be up in arms. They don't agree with his policies, he's a Democrat, and he's part black. They might even think he did all these wonderful things for blacks when he tried to treat them as if they're on equal footing with whites.

 

[Barren Mind]

Reclaiming my vote...

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

Would probably help if DNC surveys regarding what you think the party should focus on even had a "black lives matter" or "racial justice" option. It's not even on their radar as far as the surveys they send out to democratic voters are concerned.

Totally obvious oversights in my opinion. They have answer options about middle class fucking tax cuts but nothing about addressing racial issues? How blind are they?

 

[kirblar]

Would probably help if DNC surveys regarding what you think the party should focus on even had a "black lives matter" or "racial justice" option. It's not even on their radar as far as the surveys they send out to democratic voters are concerned.

Totally obvious oversights in my opinion. They have answer options about middle class fucking tax cuts but nothing about addressing racial issues? How blind are they?

See: My post above.

There is a very, very big elephant in the room that gets very angry when it sees any attention paid to minority issues.

 

[royalan]

Speaking to minority issues without speaking to minority issues is the approach of a fraud. What you're comfortable doing explicitly/implicitly is a big deal. And what people like Obama don't understand is that no matter how hard they try to be the President of everyone and deemphasize minority issues people aren't going to like him. People are still going to be up in arms. They don't agree with his policies, he's a Democrat, and he's part black. They might even think he did all these wonderful things for blacks when he tried to treat them as if they're on equal footing with whites.

Obama won this here presidency twice tho....soooooo, Democrats should probably figure out what it is that HE did, instead of trying to chase the "strategy" of a man who couldn't even make it out of the primaries.

 

[Bleepey]

A more apt analogy would be a) brick in the face b) a glass bottle over your head.

Nope. Hilary would not have tried to destroy Obanacare, hired a klansman for AG, praised Neo nazis, disenfranchised voters, defund HBCUs, etc.

 

[gutter_trash]

Republicans win when the Democratic base loses faith in politics, the system and the process

 

[Gattsu25]

Republicans win when the Democratic base loses faith in politics, the system and the process

Conversely, Democrats lose when they don't make any outreach to their most loyal sector of voters.

 

[Socivol]

A more apt analogy would be a) brick in the face b) a glass bottle over your head.

The best analogy of the last election that I thought was spot on was "Aww Hell vs Hell naw!"

 

[tbm24]

Laughing at you telling me shit about "my country"

Maybe not everyone is willing to give up and settle for a half-assed two party system where they get shit on repeatedly.

Not voting is settling for that half-assed two party system. Literally saying to yourself you don't care about the outcome. If you did, you'd take part.

 

[KingV]

You said a 7 and 8% swing towards Trump. That's not what it was at all. It was a 2 point gain for him, which you see in just about most other reporting of the number, the rest went third party. At best you can say it was a swing towards the third party., because that's where more of the change in Black male vote and Latino vote went third party or other. There's no minority surge towards Trump.

And none of the "swing" was in any way significantly from Black Women, the subject of this thread.

You are both saying the same thing, just using the number that better supports your side.

Trump gained 2% in the black vote which was a 7% swing because Hillary lost 5% and Trump gained 2% and 5+2=7

Edit: more on topic, if you’re unhappy with the leaderships choices in the party, participate in the party. That’s how party leadership is chosen, by the people that show up to their local Democratic Party meetings and participate.

 

[excelsiorlef]

You are both saying the same thing, just using the number that better supports your side.

Trump gained 2% in the black vote which was a 7% swing because Hillary lost 5% and Trump gained 2% and 5+2=7

Edit: more on topic, if you’re unhappy with the leaderships choices in the party, participate in the party. That’s how party leadership is chosen, by the people that show up to their local Democratic Party meetings and participate.

It was a 7% change, not a 7%swing towards Trump.


And also again was irrelevant to the topic at hand because change didn't come from Black Women.

 

[KingV]

It was a 7% change, not a 7%swing towards Trump.


And also again was irrelevant to the topic at hand because change didn't come from Black Women.

This is semantics not worth arguing.

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

The entire black population of America could sit out and you'd still have enough people left to vote sensibly

Clean your own houses first

To be frank, tell that to the WWC who couldn't be arsed to not vote for a damn-near Nazi who wants nothing more than to rob them blind.

Don't tell that to the voting block who consistently comes out rock fucking solid for Democrats. You give that block what the fuck they want, and plot a course from there.

Vote for us or else!

Seriously, you can't hold a gun to black women's head and say that if they don't vote for Democrats, they'll get Trump again. The party should be actively courting these votes, not the other way around.

Perhaps the Dems should align themselves more with their base. The party has been moving right for a long time. Shit, even Obama said that he would have been considered a moderate Republican in the 80s. It hasn't been a winning strategy.

With the way our voting rights are being stripped away, I wouldn't be surprised to see the return of literacy tests, and I'm not kidding.

I'm so sick of, and Black women are as well with what amounts to blackmail. Things are worse under Republicans but why support a party that throws Black people under the bus literally and doesn't listen to our advice or the head of the DNC not meeting with Black women who would be fundamental in organizing a winning strategy.

Black women lead the fight for civil rights in this country and are underrepresented by history for their tremendous accomplishments. They're still alive, they're still here, would more than be happy to give consultations, but dems, as mentioned are fishing for a demographic that was lost 50 years ago.

In 2020, if dems haven't shaped up, I won't vote for whoever they choose for President (I will still vote locally) but why on earth are the dems spitting in the face of their most loyal constituents? Answer that question before offering up another serving of Trump.

Either take this dick here willingly or we'll just let you get raped elsewhere.

Can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with these choices.

"I get it, but I'm gonna talk down to you anyway."

If democrats want minority votes, they'd better fucking work for them. "Because Trump!!!111" isn't going to inspire everyone to rush the polls. It's really that simple.

Instead of people being upset about the perspective shown by black women (and people of color in general), why aren't "liberals" more concerned about making a better Democratic party?

I'm constantly amazed when people try this little threat. Everyone is going to get fucked if that happens, but at least black women will have enough self-respect to not vote against their own interests. The better question is if Dems want more Trump.

You clearly don't. This is what Dems fucking GET for taking their base for granted so many years without reciprocating in any significant way.

Killer Mike already said it, we're so close to the bottom we know what the dirt looks, smells, and tastes like. So us not voting really changes what for blacks, exactly? So either they need to figure how to do right by black women (and black folks in general), or they can start learning to hold their own fucking nuts.

FOH with this - we're years out of a national election, and every time we have one of those, black women literally show up in droves to vote dem while white men & women by large stay voting GOP regardless of how heinous trump is...yet as is discussed here, they're consistently the first group thrown under the bus when even bernie is on about "identity politics" and bullshit lines like this

It's not a two party problem. It's the two Parties that are the problem. Neither represents their base, but donors instead.

But sure, keep people like Pelosi and Schumer as leaders because they are good at big donor fundraising.

Wow, so many negative reactions to my post. Maybe I don't get it, but either way...

You guy realize the GOP has been working relentlessly to disenfranchise black voters since they have had the right to vote? You can hold back your vote because you feel unrepresented by your party, but it's not going to get you what you want. You have no 3rd option in this country. Withholding your vote plays directly into the hands of the GOP and does their dirty work for them. Voting for the best option can at least provide a better environment for change to occur. Not voting is going to get you nowhere fast in the current climate. It's going to get you more of what you don't want.

All I'm saying is, throwing your hands in the air and walking away isn't the best option to get what you deserve.