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News Democrats Introduce Articles Of Impeachment

Will the Senate Impeach Trump if this reaches them ?

  • Yes

  • No

  • I Really Dont Care


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Halo is Dead

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He did actually immediately make a Twitter video about it. He doubled down on his baseless claims of the election being stolen and told the mob they were in the right, but needed to go home now.
He absolutely did not "say they were in the right" but yea he did continue his dumb beliefs about election fraud. He still told them to go home and later respect law enforcement. Nothing will ever be enough for the left and that scares me more than anything.
 

Kreen101

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I'm not saying he was competent or even that he intended for violence to break out. Still, words and actions have consequences.

They were there because they believed the election was stolen. They went to the Capitol because Trump told them to in order to stop the steal. They committed acts of violence and trespassed because they believed the election was being stolen.

You can't keep doubling down on the "election was stolen" rhetoric while calling for peace when the entire reason there is no peace is because of your claims of the election being stolen. I mean, you can, but you shouldn't be surprised when people don't take you seriously.
Yeah, but your point of view is: he should have known claiming fraud would cause violence, so he should not have claimed fraud. But the problem is he really thinks there was fraud.
 
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Zefah

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He absolutely did not "say they were in the right" but yea he did continue his dumb beliefs about election fraud. He still told them to go home and later respect law enforcement. Nothing will ever be enough for the left and that scares me more than anything.

His video shouldn't have been enough for anyone. It certainly wasn't for me and I voted for him.

If his words and actions after the violence broke out had been different, I wouldn't be making the same arguments.

Yeah, but your point of view is: he should have known claiming fraud would cause violence, so he should not have claimed fraud. But the problem is he really thinks there was fraud.

The problem is that anyone with a brain saw that the fraud claims did in fact cause violence. To reiterate those fraud claims while the violence was ongoing is to call for more violence, intentionally or not.

He didn't have to even denounce his claims. Just not fucking double down on them in his video supposedly calling for peace. It's two faced.
 
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Kreen101

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The problem is that anyone with a brain saw that the fraud claims did in fact cause violence. To reiterate those fraud claims while the violence was ongoing is to call for more violence, intentionally or not.

He didn't have to even denounce his claims. Just not fucking double down on them in his video supposedly calling for peace. It's two faced.
It's really unclear anything would have happened differently by that time in the riot had the video Trump released been the exact same one he did, but without the few sentences about the election being stolen. I mean, either people were going to listen to him, or not. If they were not going to listen to their supposed leader telling them in so many terms "we need to have peace, go home" simply because he also added -- for the 10 000th time -- the election was stolen, would they have listened to him more because those few words were left out?

And also, we really, really need to put things in perspective here. Discussing this event, we sound like we're talking about Pearl Harbor or 9/11. It was a crowd that got out of hand and stormed a public building. FIve people died -- which is tragic -- but four of the five were protesters, and three of those died from a medical issue like a heart attack. This was not a commando, armed to the teeth, storming into the building and shooting their way to the Senate, killing people left and right, taking hostages and executing Senators on live TV. One must neither downplay nor exagerate.
 

Zefah

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It was a crowd that got out of hand and stormed a public building. FIve people died -- which is tragic -- but four of the five were protesters, and three of those died from a medical issue like a heart attack. This was not a commando, armed to the teeth, storming into the building and shooting their way to the Senate, killing people left and right, taking hostages and executing Senators on live TV. One must neither downplay nor exagerate.

I think it's important to recognize that when dealing with the individual perpetrators. It's also important to recognize the overwhelming sentiment that we got very lucky and things could have been far far worse, and that the precedent being set of a sitting president sicking his followers onto another branch of the government is absolutely unacceptable.
 
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Kreen101

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the precedent being set of a sitting president sicking his followers onto another branch of the government is absolutely unacceptable.
I would agree with you if that is what had happened, but I think this is not what happened -- because it's actually happened elsewhere in the world and throughout history, and when it did, it was much, much different to what happened in this case.

But we'll just have to agree to disagree on this! And that's ok. Thanks for having a reasonable discussion with me -- something not to be taken for granted on the Internet these days.
 
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Halo is Dead

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His video shouldn't have been enough for anyone. It certainly wasn't for me and I voted for him.

If his words and actions after the violence broke out had been different, I wouldn't be making the same arguments.



The problem is that anyone with a brain saw that the fraud claims did in fact cause violence. To reiterate those fraud claims while the violence was ongoing is to call for more violence, intentionally or not.

He didn't have to even denounce his claims. Just not fucking double down on them in his video supposedly calling for peace. It's two faced.
I believe this is just a public display of power. I don't believe these people when they all of a sudden care about riots when it's at their doorstep when that shit was going on for months and it took many other democratic politicians way too long to finally call out the violence going on. They only care when it benefits them politically. Now thanks to those dumbasses in the capitol, conservatives (especially ex trump supporters) will be in a greater level of scrutiny and censorship. The media will now use this as justification and ammo to silence more people.
 

molnizzle

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No chance that they have the votes in the senate, but at least Trump will go down in the history books as the only president to be impeached twice.
 

SF Kosmo

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I don't think they will unless the Dems can secure an anonymous vote. If they can get a secret ballot you might find out what these Republicans really think, but as long as they fear the base they will always put opportunistic pandering over the country.

That's really the story of the last 4 years. Trump was deeply in unpopular among the GOP establishment when he took office, but the aligned with him anyway out of opportunism and as the base rallied around him and the man eclipsed both party and policy, they just played along, to disastrous effect.
 

KiNeMz

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Nothing will come of this. They dont have the votes in the senate or the time.

But it had to be done to ensure no other President tries to pull this shit again.
But also sets a precedent that the opposing party once in power can destroy the previous president. Doesn't seem very democratic to me.
 

JeTmAn81

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It's happening! Another record for Trump to add to the list. The only president to be impeached twice.
 

Fox Mulder

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Probably. They’ve gone after him relentlessly for years with everything, even encouraging and supporting racially charged riots. Why would they stop now after silencing him online when they can also block him from running in 2024.
 
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Falcs

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"Calling for peace" after asking his base to congregate in DC for a "wild" day as they march on the Capitol to protest a stolen election that wasn't stolen.

You American?

Called for peace before :


Called for peace during:



Called for peace after:
In video deleted by Big Tech: "We love you. You're very special. You've seen what happens. You see the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil. I know how you feel. But go home and go home at peace."



But Orange Man Bad, so yeah, you're right.
 

mashoutposse

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Called for peace before :


Called for peace during:



Called for peace after:
In video deleted by Big Tech: "We love you. You're very special. You've seen what happens. You see the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil. I know how you feel. But go home and go home at peace."



But Orange Man Bad, so yeah, you're right.

And yet, they weren’t peaceful.

He told a bunch of gun-loving “patriots” that the election was definitely stolen and no one was doing anything about it and the people responsible were staging a coup ... and the last chance to prevent the coup was happening a few blocks away.

But prevent the death of American democracy “peacefully,” guys.
 

LarknThe4th

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Using impeachment as a political tool against your enemy not once but twice is not only reckless but short sighted by the Democrats. What goes around comes around.
Reckless??

You are talking about Democrats being reckless when Trump ginned up a fucking riot in your capitol??! Hilarious the lack perspective and accountability

Anyway, back on topic, they ain't gonna have the votes but it's a nice move hopefully it helps stymie anymore coup attempts
 
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I don't think they will unless the Dems can secure an anonymous vote. If they can get a secret ballot you might find out what these Republicans really think, but as long as they fear the base they will always put opportunistic pandering over the country.

That's really the story of the last 4 years. Trump was deeply in unpopular among the GOP establishment when he took office, but the aligned with him anyway out of opportunism and as the base rallied around him and the man eclipsed both party and policy, they just played along, to disastrous effect.
What you're advocating for here is that government would improve if representatives didn't have to fear acting against the will of their constituents. You do realize how insane and antithetical that is to representative democracy, right? If you cant confirm your representative is acting in a way you want, and can only take their word for it, politics becomes about being the most charismatic liar in the room.
 
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SF Kosmo

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What you're advocating for here is that government would improve if representatives didn't have to fear acting against the will of their constituents. You do realize how insane and antithetical that is to representative democracy, right? If you cant confirm your representative is acting in a way you want, and can only take their word for it, politics becomes about being the most charismatic liar in the room.
Call it insane if you want but one of the guiding principles behind the idea of a republic and of representative democracy is that out representatives do what is best for the country; that it isn't necessarily a 1:1 relationship with what is popular.

There's reason to fear the base. I think some in Congress are rightly feeling shaken and concerned for their safety. But that doesn't mean that placating a base sympathetic to terror and insurrection is the morally correct thing to do, nor an accurate representation of their duty as elected officials.

These people take an oath to the constitution, not to the base.
 
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quickwhips

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If all the republicans have next time is some 70+ year old dude to run. They might as well not run. I'm tired of our president being old as harrison ford.
 
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Call it insane if you want but one of the guiding principles behind the idea of a republic and of representative democracy is that out representatives do what is best for the country; that it isn't necessarily a 1:1 relationship with what is popular.
Then they should have to explain to their constituents why they acted the way they did and try to win them over. Voting in secret just enables selfish politicians to vote in their own best interests, country be damned, without having to answer to anyone. How many times have we seen corporate interest groups push legislation to lock down the internet? How many SOPA, COPA, and SESTA type bills have managed to be pushed to the precipice on corporate dollars, only to be pushed back by outcry from constituents? You cant tell me those wouldnt have been passed in a heartbeat if the congressmen could just turn around and convincingly lie that "I didn't vote for it, blame the other guys!"

Edit* you added to your post after I hit reply. I get where you're coming from, but I just dont see that as a solution. If a large enough portion of your base is supporting crazy actions, you need to take the time to find out why. Look in to the underlying causes and see what you can do to bring them around to sense. Bring back actually having a conversation with your people and figure out how to bring back their trust in government. You're not going to be able to win over everyone, but a lot of these people calling for extreme shit are feeling disenfranchised, and I feel like their representatives in government actually having conversations with them would do a lot to deradicalize people.

The next election is a long ways off. They should be able to vote their conscience and bring people back around.
 
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Larlight

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Motherfuckers actually trying to “both sides” an insurrection and compare it to protests from last summer? 🤦‍♂️ Did those riots last summer get incited by the president to overthrow a democratic process? Didn't think so. This wasn’t an ordinary day either in Congress. This was a day they tried to go against the constitution they claim to defend so much.
 
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DGrayson

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yes.

He was watching it happen in ‘delight’. He bitched about Pence on Twitter as he watched his followers smashed into the capitol building.

And apparently his only regret from the last week was that ‘nice speech’ that his advisors told him to make. That speech was the day after.

give me a fucking break dude.


Lets try to speak to facts or at least post verifiable sources. Hard to guess exactly what he was thinking at the time.
 
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Cybrwzrd

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Societies exist under three forms sufficiently distinguishable. 1. Without government, as among our Indians. 2. Under governments wherein the will of every one has a just influence, as is the case in England in a slight degree, and in our states in a great one. 3. Under governments of force: as is the case in all other monarchies and in most of the other republics. To have an idea of the curse of existence under these last, they must be seen. It is a government of wolves over sheep. It is a problem, not clear in my mind, that the 1st. condition is not the best. But I believe it to be inconsistent with any great degree of population. The second state has a great deal of good in it. The mass of mankind under that enjoys a precious degree of liberty and happiness. It has it’s evils too: the principal of which is the turbulence to which it is subject. But weigh this against the oppressions of monarchy, and it becomes nothing. Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem. Even this evil is productive of good. It prevents the degeneracy of government, and nourishes a general attention to the public affairs. I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions indeed generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions, as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government. - Thomas Jefferson.
 
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prinz_valium

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Let me get this straight. We let degenerates loot and destroy all summer and even have politicians calling for the public harassment of other politicians. Instead of condemning this behavior we reward it by saying protests are a right and we shouldn’t expect them to be peaceful. Meanwhile, we crack down on businesses, schools, and private gatherings that violate government lockdowns due to COVID and are silent on the risk of COVID transmission risk for mass protests with many people not wearing masks. We have people murdered during these riots and degenerates are rarely charged and are out back destroying property. I could go on.

We have all of this in 2020 and think that Trump is the reason for the Capitol riot? Did he likely contribute to getting people frenzied, yes. However, I’d say most of the scum who rioted in the Capitol were inspired by the failure of local governments, mostly with Democratic leadership as well as a pass from federal Democratic leadership and the media. Come on, let’s be realistic here. When you reward bad behavior, you get bad behavior. Impeach Trump for this and every political leader that failed to condemn the riots this summer should be charged as well.
Yeah it will be nice when they can't blame everything on Trump anymore. Shit won't change in 2021 and only get worse
 

luxsol

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It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government. - Thomas Jefferson.
Doesn't seem to be working.

A lot of procedures taught to police are still being taught, with new laws being created and lawyers saving their asses from screw ups every week.
Then there are new laws and policies being (or trying to be) created every month or so to try and make it easier to arrest protestors, rioters, etc, instead of using the existing laws.

And now we have "big tech" trying hard to censor the people.

This is the only reason why i wanted Trump to win, because the past half year or so has really shown how authoritative the estabalishment will become to try and force out the other side. The fact there's so many fanatics that cheer on that shit is as bad as the people cheering on the riot that happened in the capitol last week.
AT least the riot there was for a single day.
The clapping for censhorship can be everlasting and can be and is used against anyone.

I think I've already said my stances elsewhere, but it bears repeating that i really did not give a shit about politics for the past decade or so. I'm pretty liberal since forever. I hated Trump since that NBC show and hated the MSM for even making him popular by paying too much attention to him during the 2016 election, where they accidently made him seem like a real canidate. I laughed at Trump getting elected, because the haters created their own problem. Still, there was little he could actually accomplish with democrats, liberals, and his own party not liking him.

My views started to change this year, with the pandemic, where i learned that TDS was real. People were hating on Trump for basically repeating what "heroes" like Dr Liedaboutmasks-whateverhisnameis said. Blaming covid deaths on Trump, despite the fact it's mostly up to the states themselves to try NOT contain it by saying Trump is a bad person for blocking travel from certain countries and going ahead with parades, or sending COVID patients to old people homes to kill people there. Politicians started fucking over relief programs and funds for people and states fucked over by their own regulations to keep COVID cases down, just to prevent Trump from signing his name on anymore relief programs before the election.
Then places like Twitter started censoring news stories....

It's fucking sickening and the only people i actually felt would do SOMETHING to combat all these sickening actions would be those that are those targeted by these lies, accusations, and AREN'T cheering censorship or being disgusting hypocrites.

So what does it take for common sense and self-preservation to return back normal people who will only get fucked over by the government and big tech they've been cheering on for the past year? Will they only realize how fucked we are when actual shit starts hitting the frying pan?
 

Texas Pride

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Reckless??

You are talking about Democrats being reckless when Trump ginned up a fucking riot in your capitol??! Hilarious the lack perspective and accountability

Anyway, back on topic, they ain't gonna have the votes but it's a nice move hopefully it helps stymie anymore coup attempts



You can hold Trump responsible for what happened in the Capitol when you hold Democrats accountable for all the death destruction and mayhem this summer they not only ignored but largely supported. Yeah it's reckless. Again for the dunces in attendance. Impeachment was never meant as a tool to go after your enemies. It's a dangerous precedent to set because both sides can now use it at will. Maybe Pelosi should've thought about that when she frivolously impeached Trump the first time with nothing to show for it but a cute photo op handing out commemorative pens.
 

LarknThe4th

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You can hold Trump responsible for what happened in the Capitol when you hold Democrats accountable for all the death destruction and mayhem this summer they not only ignored but largely supported. Yeah it's reckless. Again for the dunces in attendance. Impeachment was never meant as a tool to go after your enemies. It's a dangerous precedent to set because both sides can now use it at will. Maybe Pelosi should've thought about that when she frivolously impeached Trump the first time with nothing to show for it but a cute photo op handing out commemorative pens.
Its reckless to use an instrument in a governmental structure specifically designed to punish wrongdoing on someone who has gorged themselves in wrongdoing???

And you bet they are using it to go after em, that's usually what happens to people who fuck up and deserve punishment for amongst other crimes indulging in insurrection
 

Texas Pride

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Its reckless to use an instrument in a governmental structure specifically designed to punish wrongdoing on someone who has gorged themselves in wrongdoing???

And you bet they are using it to go after em, that's usually what happens to people who fuck up and deserve punishment for amongst other crimes indulging in insurrection



So we're going to pretend they haven't gone after and all in on Trump since day one? You're fucking loopy. Again the pearl clutching over this after Democrats supported this past summers activities of riots,mayhem & murder are falling on deaf ears. That's what happens when you're a fucking hypocrite.
 
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LarknThe4th

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So we're going to pretend they haven't gone after and all in on Trump since day one? You're fucking loopy. Again the pearl clutching over this after Democrats supported this past summers activities are f riots,mayhem & murder are falling on deaf ears. That's what happens when you're a fucking hypocrite.
Hey Russia gate was a huge waste of time and political capitol but I'll ask you, are YOU fucking loopy? 5 bodies piled up and 2 bombs found not enough to warrant maybe doing more than slapping this coddled baby on the wrists no?
 

TheContact

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Lets try to speak to facts or at least post verifiable sources. Hard to guess exactly what he was thinking at the time.

trump was delighted at the chaos caused in the capital according to R- Ben Sasse
wapo reports that trump watched the riots on TV and didn't try to stop it
pence had to step in and take the lead for bringing the national guard in because trump did not want to initially
trump also tried blaming the riot on antifa, because we know he loves to parrot his favorite fake news tv shows, and kevin mccarthy had to explain to him it wasn't antifa

Chief of police asked to have national guard on stand by, capitol security blocked and said no. Some say capitol security responds to house and senate leaders. They needed an excuse to block ten day audit


Trump told them to march peacefully. That is incitement?

he asked them to march to capital hill to "help weak republicans...take our country back"
he never said i want you to match peacefully
in fact, the report i posted above said he was delighted by the chaos
 
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Airola

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he never said i want you to match peacefully

He said this:
"I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."

So yeah, technically you are right in the most hair splitting "fact check" style possible.
 

TheContact

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He said this:
"I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."

So yeah, technically you are right in the most hair splitting "fact check" style possible.

i'll concede. i ctrl+f his speech and he did say peacefully one time in the whole rally. maybe that will help him in his defense
 

Ornlu

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But also sets a precedent that the opposing party once in power can destroy the previous president. Doesn't seem very democratic to me.

We're staying on our trajectory of becoming Brazil 2.0, for sure.
He told them their democracy was stolen. That is incitement.

No, it is not.

i'll concede. i ctrl+f his speech and he did say peacefully one time in the whole rally. maybe that will help him in his defense

Why is there such intentional obtuseness? It's easy to condemn someone for their rhetoric without having to lie and accuse them of incitement.
 
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SpartanN92

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Kentucky, it’s not as bad as Australia
He told them their democracy was stolen. That is incitement.

Quote from link: Hillary Clinton dismissed President Trump as an “illegitimate president” and suggested that “he knows” that he stole the 2016 presidential election in a CBS News interview to be aired Sunday.

Do we lock her up for incitement?
 
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sackings

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It's really unclear anything would have happened differently by that time in the riot had the video Trump released been the exact same one he did, but without the few sentences about the election being stolen. I mean, either people were going to listen to him, or not. If they were not going to listen to their supposed leader telling them in so many terms "we need to have peace, go home" simply because he also added -- for the 10 000th time -- the election was stolen, would they have listened to him more because those few words were left out?

And also, we really, really need to put things in perspective here. Discussing this event, we sound like we're talking about Pearl Harbor or 9/11. It was a crowd that got out of hand and stormed a public building. FIve people died -- which is tragic -- but four of the five were protesters, and three of those died from a medical issue like a heart attack. This was not a commando, armed to the teeth, storming into the building and shooting their way to the Senate, killing people left and right, taking hostages and executing Senators on live TV. One must neither downplay nor exagerate.
If the portland mob had breached the building, it would be a smoldering ruin right now. It's pretty telling that once people got in there they mostly took seflies and larped around. Insurrection...lmao. Yah were here to overthrow the government but lemme stop for a cool selfie
 
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TheContact

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We're staying on our trajectory of becoming Brazil 2.0, for sure.


No, it is not.



Why is there such intentional obtuseness? It's easy to condemn someone for their rhetoric without having to lie and accuse them of incitement.

he still incited them. just because one time he said march peacefully doesn't let him entirely off the hook here. this wasn't some sporadic one-off event; this was carefully constructed since before the election even happened. and as we've seen in pictures of people wearing hoodies that say "maga civil war january 6th" and also from the investigations which found it to be a pre-planned event, organized on websites like facebook, gab, and others. we'll see what happens in the senate though. he'll be impeached but not sure if they will convict him. i hope they do.
 
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Lets try to speak to facts or at least post verifiable sources. Hard to guess exactly what he was thinking at the time.
I did follow up with a source which was a republican senator Ben Sasse that spoke to senior WH officials.

 
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Kreen101

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If the portland mob had breached the building, it would be a smoldering ruin right now. It's pretty telling that once people got in there they mostly took seflies and larped around. Insurrection...lmao. Yah were here to overthrow the government but lemme stop for a cool selfie

Yes, people are talking about it like it was the Seizure of the Winter Palace, when what it really was what a crowd breaching a barricade and flowing into the building. They didn't barge in guns blazing, ransacking and torching the place.
 

SF Kosmo

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Quote from link: Hillary Clinton dismissed President Trump as an “illegitimate president” and suggested that “he knows” that he stole the 2016 presidential election in a CBS News interview to be aired Sunday.

Do we lock her up for incitement?
Luckily for Hillary, she doesn't have followers anymore and no one cares what she thinks. You can't be accused of inciting a riot if no one riots.

But also, critically, Hillary didn't suggest it was something that could be changed, didn't tell people it was up to them to go stop it from happening. She just bitched and threw herself a pity party.
 
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