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Democrats lost November Election (and down ticket) by giving GOP talking point that the Democrats blocked government checks to workers during Crisis

DeepEnigma

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It's something eh? Get all huffy puffy upset... HOW DARE YOU HOLD MONEY FROM UKRAINE!

Then when it comes to american people during a time of crisis..... Naw, we're good right now. We will wait more time before we lend aid to our citizens.
Say it louder for the cognitive dissonance carrying the water for their ideologues in the back!
 

daveonezero

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Nov 19, 2018
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It's something eh? Get all huffy puffy upset... HOW DARE YOU HOLD MONEY FROM UKRAINE!

Then when it comes to american people during a time of crisis..... Naw, we're good right now. We will wait more time before we lend aid to our citizens.
The Globalist/Democrats are consistent. They want to destroy individual/freedom culture of the US population. It works as long as they get federal government money. Not so good if they don't. This has been going on for a while.
 
May 22, 2018
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But, Nobody_Important Nobody_Important said Pelosi only wanted to change some of the wording related to stock buyback?

I eagerly await to see how this will be twisted as Trump bad and Pelosi good. Will it be the old tried Russia angle or will we go "but he is racist" this time?
While Pelosi is playing her political games, actual real people suffer.

It is an already established narrative that "Peliso just wanted to make the wording about stock buy-back stronger".
And then we see her putting huge parts of voting reform into it as well, and allocation of relief based on racial makeup.
How can you defend this when actual people are struggling.
TDS at its finest.
Except that's not what I said at all. I never said that it was the only thing she wanted or that I even supported the rest of what she wanted. I only said that if the language surrounding the buyouts was a sticking point for Dems that it should be changed and that I didn't want my tax dollars paying for buyouts.


I swear you people don't actually read my posts. You just assume what my position is and then rant at me over your imagined argument.
 
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Zefah

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But do you actually do that? Because you're not off to a good start-starting with those message laden individuals.
What does "message laden" mean? That they have a message? That's a problem?

Except that's not what I said at all. I never said that it was the only thing she wanted or that I even supported the rest of what she wanted. I only said that if the language surrounding the buyouts was a sticking point for Dems that it should be changed and that I didn't want my tax dollars paying for buyouts.

I swear you people don't actually read my posts. You just assume what my position is and then rant at me over your imagined argument.
Unsolicited advice and all that, but as someone who often agrees with you, I think it would help your perception (assuming you care) if you were to sometimes acknowledge good things being done by the other side and also be more critical of bad things being done by your side. I feel like more often than not, you only speak up when you can interpret something (often very narrowly) as a plus for Democrats or as a criticism of conservatives. I might be wrong, but that's just the impression I often get.
 
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Vicetrailia

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What does "message laden" mean? That they have a message? That's a problem?
Yeah, they're all about the same perspective as the dominant voices in this politics section. Heavily left critical, defend the right-wing, bash the left.

The dweeb guy is one of the basic right-wing YouTubers, and Pool is like Dave Rubin.

It's all "alternative/reactionary/culture war news", it's entertainment curated for particular audiences. That audience being most of us in the politics section.

Maybe sometimes it's good informational news , but 90% of time they just tell you what to think.
 

Zefah

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Yeah, they're all about the same perspective as the dominant voices in this politics section. Heavily left critical, defend the right-wing, bash the left.

The dweeb guy is one of the basic right-wing YouTubers, and Pool is like Dave Rubin.

It's all "alternative/reactionary/culture war news", it's entertainment curated for particular audiences. That audience being most of us in the politics section.

Maybe sometimes it's good informational news , but 90% of time they just tell you what to think.
I really don't know what you're talking about. I'm not watching the guy you keep calling a "dweeb," but I've seen a few Pool videos. He just pulls up articles and news stories from the Internet and comments on them. How is that telling you what to think? If you believe he's twisting the truth or taking things out of context, you should cite examples...

Seriously, he posts 20+ minute videos showing the text he's commenting on as he comments on it. It's up to the viewer to agree or disagree, but it's not like he's selectively editing clips to make people look bad by removing context.
 
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autoduelist

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Skip to 50:45 for a long list of ridiculous things Pelosi's bill asks for.

The beginning is solid too - Ben discusses how important it is for us be able to discuss policy that affects all aspects of our life [like economy] and how absurd it is that some on the left won't discuss anything besides complete lockdown and wokescold anyone caring about our way of life. Also, fish tank cleaner.
 

desertdroog

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Yeah, they're all about the same perspective as the dominant voices in this politics section. Heavily left critical, defend the right-wing, bash the left.

The dweeb guy is one of the basic right-wing YouTubers, and Pool is like Dave Rubin.

It's all "alternative/reactionary/culture war news", it's entertainment curated for particular audiences. That audience being most of us in the politics section.

Maybe sometimes it's good informational news , but 90% of time they just tell you what to think.
Still haven't moved past the ad hominem, with regards to Styxhexxenhammer666? Not able to make a cogent argument for both the analysis in his video, much less who he is as a person?

I am not surprised.

You interjected yourself, when you weren't even targeted, regarding an analysis video of a person who you dismiss out of hand as a "dweeb guy is one of the basic right-wing YouTubers", which goes to show you didn't watch the video I posted (no loss as I don't care, it was to add to the thread for anyone to watch or ignore [that's you]), but felt yourself important enough to make a comment of no value to the discussion.

Here's a challenge, actually watch the video, point out your disagreement with his analysis and see if it doesn't accurately describe what Nancy Pelosi and the House Democrats are trying to pull in this House Bill they padded.
 
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oagboghi2

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Yeah, they're all about the same perspective as the dominant voices in this politics section. Heavily left critical, defend the right-wing, bash the left.

The dweeb guy is one of the basic right-wing YouTubers, and Pool is like Dave Rubin.

It's all "alternative/reactionary/culture war news", it's entertainment curated for particular audiences. That audience being most of us in the politics section.

Maybe sometimes it's good informational news , but 90% of time they just tell you what to think.
Why don't you give us your list of DNC approved talking heads we can post about here?

You tried to defend Pelosi bullshit earlier in this thread, you failed and now you're attacking Tim Pool and this "dweeb". Any more distractions you wanna throw in?
 
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Mihos

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If they do the 4 months paid if you are furloughed, that is actually a very good thing to do. It would solve a big problem my company is facing.

"This is a great plan," Schumer said on the Senate floor Tuesday. "What it says is if you lose your job in this crisis, you can be furloughed by your employer. That means you can stay on that employer's worklist; if you have health benefits with the employer you can keep getting them. But, most importantly, the federal government will pay your salary — your full salary — for now four months."

Looks like it is a few hours from possibly passing.

(this is the senate bill BTW, not whatever that Pelosi crap is.)
 

infinitys_7th

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If they do the 4 months paid if you are furloughed, that is actually a very good thing to do. It would solve a big problem my company is facing.

"This is a great plan," Schumer said on the Senate floor Tuesday. "What it says is if you lose your job in this crisis, you can be furloughed by your employer. That means you can stay on that employer's worklist; if you have health benefits with the employer you can keep getting them. But, most importantly, the federal government will pay your salary — your full salary — for now four months."

Looks like it is a few hours from possibly passing.

(this is the senate bill BTW, not whatever that Pelosi crap is.)
Unfortunately, how will that get blended with the Pelosi bill does not give me hope. Pelosi wanted middle class workers to potentially pay back the money. Imagine if you had to pay some part of your salary back to the government on top of regular taxes?
 
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Mihos

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Unfortunately, how will that get blended with the Pelosi bill does not give me hope. Pelosi wanted middle class workers to potentially pay back the money. Imagine if you had to pay some part of your salary back to the government on top of regular taxes?
I am sure they will screw it up somehow
 

Cybrwzrd

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Can anyone tell me why stock buyback is a bad thing?

Literally everyone with some kind of retirement account or diversified mutual fund (or direct stock) benefits from a stock buyback due to increased share price?
Did they? All that cash disappeared once the bubble popped. Instead of investing in their business or saving for a rainy day, management paid themselves and well, now have nothing to show for it.
 

rykomatsu

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Jan 2, 2008
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Did they? All that cash disappeared once the bubble popped. Instead of investing in their business or saving for a rainy day, management paid themselves and well, now have nothing to show for it.
I dunno about you, but my investments were smokin because of the buybacks.

Sure, the bubble popped, but if there were no buybacks, would the share prices be even lower? Honestly, don't know.
 
Jan 2, 2011
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Did they? All that cash disappeared once the bubble popped. Instead of investing in their business or saving for a rainy day, management paid themselves and well, now have nothing to show for it.
Bingo. Instead of shoring up capital to protect their workers or reinvesting in the company through capital expenditures or expand their business to create new jobs they instead buy back shares of their own stock on the open market to inflate the value without actually adding any, you know, value.

So yeah, even I'm guilty of taking part in the dividends tossed out to investors but in reality this is how these types of businesses operate and it's another example of how trickle down doesn't work. So now you have these businesses that had all the opportunities in the world to protect themselves (or do a better job at least) against an economic free fall like this, but they didn't and now they're begging for another bailout that they'll probably get.

I was relieved when Trump said he'd be game for eliminating buybacks, those should never have become legal because nobody can use them responsibly, at least not in recent times when they seem to have blown up.
 

Cybrwzrd

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I dunno about you, but my investments were smokin because of the buybacks.

Sure, the bubble popped, but if there were no buybacks, would the share prices be even lower? Honestly, don't know.
Maximizing shareholder value is short sighted and foolish. Now these companies have to be bailed out by the government (and will be) and will not face any penalties. The vindictive asshole in me would love to see every company that needs bailing out that was doing stock buybacks be nationalized. They wanted socialism, might as well give them the full gulag.
 
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oagboghi2

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Bingo. Instead of shoring up capital to protect their workers or reinvesting in the company through capital expenditures or expand their business to create new jobs they instead buy back shares of their own stock on the open market to inflate the value without actually adding any, you know, value.

So yeah, even I'm guilty of taking part in the dividends tossed out to investors but in reality this is how these types of businesses operate and it's another example of how trickle down doesn't work. So now you have these businesses that had all the opportunities in the world to protect themselves (or do a better job at least) against an economic free fall like this, but they didn't and now they're begging for another bailout that they'll probably get.

I was relieved when Trump said he'd be game for eliminating buybacks, those should never have become legal because nobody can use them responsibly, at least not in recent times when they seem to have blown up.
How is any business supposed to defend themselves from a global pandemic shutting down all trade and commerce?
 
Jan 2, 2011
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How is any business supposed to defend themselves from a global pandemic shutting down all trade and commerce?
Our owner has 6 months of operating costs saved up for instances exactly like this. I, and my predecessors and colleagues, probably had to forgo higher raises and bonuses for that to happen but now I'm glad for it. We're definitely going to feel a crunch but it's a hell of a lot lighter than these corporations that learned nothing from 2008 and used bailout money and even loans for stock buybacks instead of incorporating similar measures. Now all of their employees are screwed and we haven't even seen the peak of this shitstorm.

But they'll likely get their bailouts and I've got a hunch they will learn nothing from this. Again. Nobody is going to get out of this unscathed, but I'd rather get a haircut than lose my whole head. These businesses put themselves in a horrible position during one of the largest bull markets in history and now they're looking for handouts.
 
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Shmunter

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Wheres that pic with the hero sweating over the button...Save the Economy -or- More Diversity
 

Shmunter

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Both democrats and republicans are scumbags holding American people hostage amidst this crisis, if you cannot see this, good for you.
Are republicans weaving in a taller wall or something -into- an emergency stimulus?
 

oagboghi2

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Our owner has 6 months of operating costs saved up for instances exactly like this. I, and my predecessors and colleagues, probably had to forgo higher raises and bonuses for that to happen but now I'm glad for it. We're definitely going to feel a crunch but it's a hell of a lot lighter than these corporations that learned nothing from 2008 and used bailout money and even loans for stock buybacks instead of incorporating similar measures. Now all of their employees are screwed and we haven't even seen the peak of this shitstorm.

But they'll likely get their bailouts and I've got a hunch they will learn nothing from this. Again. Nobody is going to get out of this unscathed, but I'd rather get a haircut than lose my whole head. These businesses put themselves in a horrible position during one of the largest bull markets in history and now they're looking for handouts.
What is your boss going to do if in 6 months your customer base is unemployed or drastically stretched thin?


its great that you have money saved, but most businesses run on razor sharp margins. Expecting them to have 6 months of payroll backlogged is extremely unrealistic for most businesses, big and small.
 

Joe T.

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From what I'm getting out of that Post piece and reactions on Twitter it seems they passed a bill that looks almost exactly like the one Pelosi and Schumer threw a wrench in over the weekend, one without any of the crazy Dem demands that came from the House bill. Did they cave under public pressure or was this part of some half-assed attempt to make Trump and Senate Republicans look bad?
 

oatmeal

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From what I'm getting out of that Post piece and reactions on Twitter it seems they passed a bill that looks almost exactly like the one Pelosi and Schumer threw a wrench in over the weekend, one without any of the crazy Dem demands that came from the House bill. Did they cave under public pressure or was this part of some half-assed attempt to make Trump and Senate Republicans look bad?
I’m not sure. Not a ton of details out yet.

But it nearly doubled to 2T. How?
 
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HoodWinked

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looking between the two bills i think the jump was from the $500B to corporations, $150B for state, $100B for hospitals and removed the phased-in provision for lower income individuals.
 

HeresJohnny

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Yeah, they're all about the same perspective as the dominant voices in this politics section. Heavily left critical, defend the right-wing, bash the left.

The dweeb guy is one of the basic right-wing YouTubers, and Pool is like Dave Rubin.

It's all "alternative/reactionary/culture war news", it's entertainment curated for particular audiences. That audience being most of us in the politics section.

Maybe sometimes it's good informational news , but 90% of time they just tell you what to think.
That’s all you got?
 

monegames

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looking between the two bills i think the jump was from the $500B to corporations, $150B for state, $100B for hospitals and removed the phased-in provision for lower income individuals.
The WaPo link also mentioned more strict oversight of the corporate money.
 
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Jan 2, 2011
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What is your boss going to do if in 6 months your customer base is unemployed or drastically stretched thin?


its great that you have money saved, but most businesses run on razor sharp margins. Expecting them to have 6 months of payroll backlogged is extremely unrealistic for most businesses, big and small.
If that's the case in 6 months, which is very possible, then I could be looking at getting laid off. And if that happens then at least I'll be in a significantly better spot to find a new job than people are right now in the midst of all this.

I don't expect every company to shore up cash to keep thousands of employees in the wake of a pandemic, but when I said similar measures I just meant they could have done something, anything with their bailout money over the past decade to put some kind of protective measures in place. Instead they spent it on buybacks and even went into debt to inflate the stock more and now all of that money evaporated and thousands of people are out of a job. Just terrible management all around.
 

TwoDurans

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Three GOP senators have already indicated they intend to block the bill.
 

Zefah

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Three GOP senators have already indicated they intend to block the bill.
Well, if the reporting is true, the Democrats are on board this time, so hopefully the votes of those assholes won't matter.
 

TwoDurans

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Article?

It's not helpful to just post news without an article, you know. Not to be snippy lol
So many of these behind paywalls, not sure if this one will work.

They're saying it's because they think it'll incentivize companies to do layoffs instead of paying their employees, which is possible since no one outside the chambers has been able to read it, but this thread is about talking points and right now it's the GOP that's going to try to halt the bill.
 

Mihos

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Three GOP senators have already indicated they intend to block the bill.
They are not blocking it, they just noticed that the way one part is worded made it look there was an incentive for companies to lay off people.

They got so aggressive on the unemployment part, that many people would make more if they were laid off than they would if they were working.

They just want the text fixed.
 

monegames

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Well, if the reporting is true, the Democrats are on board this time, so hopefully the votes of those assholes won't matter.
Won't change it passing, but could slow down process. With the constitutionality of remote voting in question it could take a while to get enough House members back to vote. There is a unanimous vote option that only requires 3 House members to vote on it or something like that.
 
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TwoDurans

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They are not blocking it, they just noticed that the way one part is worded made it look there was an incentive for companies to lay off people.

They got so aggressive on the unemployment part, that many people would make more if they were laid off than they would if they were working.

They just want the text fixed.
Which isn't going to happen as it's been passed by the house and the bill ain't going to be opened back up unless they want to send it back to the house for another vote, which will take even more time. If someone calls for a voice vote it'll stall the process haaard.
 

Mihos

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Which isn't going to happen as it's been passed by the house and the bill ain't going to be opened back up unless they want to send it back to the house for another vote, which will take even more time. If someone calls for a voice vote it'll stall the process haaard.

It hasn't even passed the senate yet. The house won't vote on it until Thursday at the earliest.
 
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TwoDurans

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It hasn't even passed the senate yet. The house won't vote on it until Thursday at the earliest.
Right, I was getting H/S backwards. Bottom line is they're not opening the bill back up without costly delays.
 

infinitys_7th

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The bill isn't closed yet, read the article. They are still editing the legalise to make sure it says what they agreed to, it's why the vote hasn't happened yet.
You covered everything, but yeah, they are just in the proofreading process. This is a 600-800 page legal document that was thrown together in barely a week - there are bound to be issues in it. This is something that can be fixed very rapidly before the bill is voted on tonight. I'm sure others found other issues as well - it seems like WaPo just jumped on it for drama. The WaPo did not even say they would vote against it, just that they found the issue. And the issue sounds like something Democrats would have no objection to fixing, so I can't see this being a fundamental partisan objection.
 
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