Democrats not addressing fleeing "Straight Black Male" voters will likely cost them 2020 election.

Afro Republican

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Aug 24, 2016
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#1
One thing we are hearing about Stacey Abrams from Georgia (who's considering a 2020 run for some reason) and many other elections during the mid-terms and after that led to a white or Black republican win, is that it's all because of "voter oppression". That is the excuse pushed by White people on the left to basically bury straight Black mens opinions and also why the media almost never interviews these men.

What's actually happening is something that's been happening from 2016. A lot of it comes from older seniors lecturing the 20-30 and 15-19 age ranges, tons of influential people using the internet to reach wider audience, rappers that didn't sell out and have been speaking against the entertainment and educational industry, religious groups from christians and hebrew israelites, to organizations that want to rebuilt black communities, and those trying to create new schools. Plus blexit and kanye may have gotten some to more recently.

This has been causing a wave of straight Black Men to basically flee the party in a much larger number in a shorter amount of time. The reasons are of course varied, but Black Voters in electoral college winning numbers are moving away, and the democrats are so dumb, to involved inside their bubble, to realize that's a major problem. instead the thoughts of these men are buried under racism and voter oppression as excuses. Once again, getting candidates to lie about fixing issues in the inner city to do nothing for 2-4 years and then repeat the cycle, and the Democrats are directly denying the FACT that's it's happening.

Stacey Abrams is a good example of Black Men in higher numbers than reported post election voting for the opposition (which is why some of the older articles mentioning black male voters might throw people off since they switched it to voter suppression) she was nothing more than a token symbol running under the DNC banner, and the Black men chose the choice that "may' actually help improve things instead of an obvious con put there to try and attract black votes. Just like Black men having helped elect several GOP anti-trans/anti-gay candidates, and support legislation against those groups as well.

The black vote percentages are generally inflated by women and in some states black latinos/hispanics (despite the fact they track them separately all the other times) there isn't really "88% of the vote going to the DNC, it's more like the DNC is getting maybe 60% of the vote to the GOPS 40% in most of these cases.

You saw this trend happen from Trumps 2016 election, to Cruz beating out Beto, to Brian Kept over Stacey, Heck even in Florida with Andrew we had articles actually removed talking about some of the polling statistics.

It's clear to be the Democrats want to remain in lala land, and it doesn't surprise me, Black men have been thrown under the bus by Democrats for other groups for around 40 year now. Feminism, Hispanics, Illegal Immigrants of all type, etc. Heck, LGBT is the largest group of minorities and it's controlled by white people, yet the media for 5-6 years allowed these members and advocates of the LGBT to do all kinds of terrible things and say all kinds of terrible things about black people, masculinity, forcing the agenda in the communities, and worst yet, allowing them to basically consistently highjack and revise parts of the civil rights movement to propel their movement up with the leftists, and for a group that says they aren't racist i find that very interesting. Honestly, they still do it now but not as openly.

Democrats lack of interest in this group makes no strategic sense for electoral victory in 2020 as 2016, the 2018 mid terms, and numerous local elections has proven, and because it makes no strategic sense i suspect the democrats will CONTINUE to do this until their defeat.

Democrats being split was already an issue that could prevent their victory, but black men from a bunch of must win states will likely be THE nail in the coffin just like it was recently. It is very likely a near guarantee loss at this point.

Let's look at 2016 map:


In Georgia there's a massive anti-LGBT backlash among Black men going on that's criminally under reported making the predictions from post 2018 midterms of Georgia being flipable impossible. Thus sealing east half of the south with the possible exception of florida.

Increases for changes and lack of dem outreach in michigan, along with a few health related environmental incidents that have been underreported, will likely keep michigan red.

I also suspect based on recent events and general dem uninterest the last two years to keep Wisconsin. Also want to mention Michigan and Wins got economic and job increases that have polled favorably.

Penn will be a wild card as there's a lot of push to bring in more immigrants, a good chunk illegal, and there have been times where Penn has admitted to illegals voting in election,. including 11,000 in one district and others under investigation. He could still win them, but it won't be easy, just like with Virginia and it's refugee problem and felon voting platform. which gave Hillary the win after 98% of the vote came in and it was still red and flipped blew by getting a surge of votes out of nowhere.

If Trump hold all the east half of the south (outside florida) and keeps Michigan and Wins, he can still win even if he lost florida. Still giving him 277. Assuming he also wins Penn or makes up for Penn.

Given 2016's strategy Trump could win Penn if he engages with Urban and Rural voters early as the democrats won't be trying to hard there. They will be aiming again to flip Arizona, try and take Florida, and put tons of money in Texas. Democrats don't realize Penn is a must win if they want to at the VERY LEAST have no one hit 270. With Penn Trump is basically guarantee to win, especially if he holds Michigan and Winscon which is most likely.

He might be able to get Virginia if he actually does some strong campaigning in Hampton county and Richmond greater area. The increased voter turnout of Blacks for Republicans since 2016 could cause a long-term voting patter if the increase in 2020 is good.

The fact Trump doesn't have to work even half as hard in 2020 as 2016 will make this a walk in the park and it's all because democrats won't admit they are the problem and they are proving no solutions to issue, even in their own states (Hi CA) and the conditions are worsening. This hivemind everyones against them attitude, and these social SJW movements are doing nothing but causing backlash and they will soon find out about that the hard way.

The Electoral college isn't a popularity contest, which the democrats want to turn this into by trying to remove the EC, it's a strategic game that requires actually considering moves ahead and where to go. Dems haven't realized this in decades.

Proof of that is in the map above. A good chunk of those states had zero or minimal campaigning. If Hillary actually though about the EC strategically and won, MT, ND, SD, NE, KS< OK, and actually went to Wisconsin and and won it, she would be president right now. Instead she spend much time in states she couldn't possibly lose, stuck her nose up at working class state treating them like second class citizens and then made all other states flyovers.

In conclusion it seems to me if the party splitting on socialism wasn't the killer, this issue they are not addressing will make sure they lose 2020 just based on the EC board and the placements of the increases.
 

cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
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#3
Black men are almost like White men to the Democrats. They are low on the list of "victims". Sorry but POC women, hispanics, gays, trans all come out ahead of black men. Sure your black, but you are a straight man that gives you "privillage", until your needed to stir up "RACISM" and continue the identity politics train.

I don't really see how black men aren't becoming more conservative. The values line up. Blacks are usually very churched so the whole abortion and gay marriage thing should align them more conservative. If you are a working black man then lower taxes and more employment is a boon to you. same with illegal immigration since the African American community is usually effected more by Illegals lowering wages or "gentrifying" their neighborhoods. I would also think as a law abiding working black man you would want to be tougher on crime (black on black crime hurts the community way more than some racist schlub) and reduce the welfare state.

I know we have had this conversation before but Trump just needs to get a bit more of the black vote and its a walk in the park for him. Their vote is there for Trump to take because the Democrats are going to focus on women/LGTBQ leaving black men in the cold once again.

P.S. @Afro Republican are you a fan of Larry Elder?
 
Oct 21, 2018
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#4
This really is your whole political stance, isn't it? Then again, it's not like your username hides that.

I've been reading some books about the Jim Crow era and this attitude of yours is nothing new.

There's always been some black men who totally downplay the impact of racism and discrimination, or who are willing to support those who tell them such things don't matter. Fortunately, most black men and women are not blind to it. Why? Because they've experienced this by themselves. Not because of a politician.

Racism matters and exists. It's neither an excuse nor a perception, but a historical, practical and judicial fact.

Of course, I realize your tactic is now to point at illegal immigrants and blame them for every ill.

No doubt, it is likely a few black men will follow the pied piper that is Donald Trump. It's sad, but true.

Yet your predictions completely ignore impopular actions that Trump has taken, which would hurt him in a way that wasn't the case back in 2016, as well as the recent elections. Things are more complex than you want to believe.
 
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Ailynn

Faith - Hope - Love
Jan 1, 2017
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#5
Whoever wins in 2020, it seems like things are just going to keep getting worse no matter what. Apathy and outrage are an increasingly incurable cancer that is set on spreading out more and more until the love in the world is all but snuffed out.


I'm sorry...
I'm just...not in a very good place right now.
 
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JordanN

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Apr 21, 2012
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#6
Racism matters and exists. It's neither an excuse nor a perception, but a historical, practical and judicial fact.
Why?

If racism was really a big deal people say it is, then why is America the #1 destination for immigration? Why are people all the way from South America running on foot and breaking inside the USA with hopes of living there forever?
When Trump says he wants to build the wall and stop the flow of illegal immigration, why is there mass hysteria and death threats instead of praise that he doesn't want people to be exposed to "racism"?

It can't be "racism" that is behind all of today's woes. Hell, my above example directly debunks it. Why do people flee their countries and ALWAYS pick either the USA or any other Western country to live in?

Racism is an illusion. If you look at Human history, every culture on earth was literally at war with each other for being different. And yet, look at the world today. Which countries are the most successful? Which same countries are also accused of "racism" for being successful?
 
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cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
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#7
Whoever wins in 2020, it seems like things are just going to keep getting worse no matter what. Apathy and outrage are an increasingly incurable cancer that is set on spreading out more and more until the love in the world is all but snuffed out.


I'm sorry...
I'm just...not in a very good place right now.
I hope you can get into a good place soon @Ailynn :)
 
Nov 10, 2013
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#8
This really is your whole political stance, isn't it? Then again, it's not like your username hides that.

I've been reading some books about the Jim Crow era and this attitude of yours is nothing new.

There's always been some black men who totally downplay the impact of racism and discrimination, or who are willing to support those who tell them such things don't matter. Fortunately, most black men and women are not blind to it.
Why? Because they've experienced this by themselves. Not because of a politician.

Racism matters and exists. It's neither an excuse nor a perception, but a historical, practical and judicial fact.

Of course, I realize your tactic is now to point at illegal immigrants and blame them for every ill.

No doubt, it is likely a few black men will follow the pied piper that is Donald Trump. It's sad, but true.

Yet your predictions completely ignore impopular actions that Trump has taken, which would hurt him in a way that wasn't the case back in 2016, as well as the recent elections. Things are more complex than you want to believe.
Are you implying he is an Uncle Tom?
 
Oct 21, 2018
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#9
If racism was really a big deal people say it is, then why is America the #1 destination for immigration? Why are people all the way from South America running on foot and breaking inside the USA with hopes of living there forever?
That's not too hard to explain. America is a wealthy country. People want to go to places where there is a certain level of job opportunity and economic prosperity. Doesn't mean folks from non-white races aren't suffering any discrimination in the U.S. If you think those same immigrants, whether legal or ilegal, aren't experiencing any sort of racial issues, then you simply haven't talked to enough of them.

When Trump says he wants to build the wall and stop the flow of illegal immigration, why is there mass hysteria and death threats instead of praise that he doesn't want people to be exposed to "racism"?
Because his campaign proposals about building the wall included several nods to racists.

If he had framed the construction of the wall in a completely different manner, then we could talk.

It can't be "racism" that is behind all of today's woes. Hell, my above example directly debunks it. Why do people flee their countries and ALWAYS pick either the USA or any other Western country to live in?
I've already addressed that. It also doesn't need to be behind all of today's woes. Your example doesn't really take into account thousands of stories, including both extensive coverage as well as actual judicial rulings, indicating that racism is still a factor. Not the only factor, of course, but those who pretend that racism is already over and done aren't being intellectually honest.

Racism is an illusion. If you look at Human history, every culture on earth was literally at war with each other for being different. And yet, look at the world today. Which countries are the most successful? Which same countries are also accused of "racism" for being successful?
Only someone who is completely ignorant of history, both global and American history, could pretend to say such a thing with a straight face. Success is relative, because it depends on what you use as a point of reference, but even absolute success on, say, an economic level doesn't mean racism is non-existent.
 
Mar 10, 2015
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#10
Whoever wins in 2020, it seems like things are just going to keep getting worse no matter what. Apathy and outrage are an increasingly incurable cancer that is set on spreading out more and more until the love in the world is all but snuffed out.


I'm sorry...
I'm just...not in a very good place right now.
You just need to unplug. The country (world) is not nearly as bitter, spiteful and divided as the internet and news media would have you believe. Most people just wanna be good people, treat others well and be treated well. Have faith in that.
 
Oct 21, 2018
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#12
Are you implying he is an Uncle Tom?
No, because "Uncle Tom" is a fictional character and also an expression I do not use.

I am thinking more about an updated version of the so-called Atlanta compromise of 1895.

Which was a very shameful moment in the history of African American politics that was rightfully criticized and rejected, both at the time and especially later on, by those who fought for civil rights.
 
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Feb 25, 2017
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#13
That's a very good writeup of the current state of the African American voting bloc. I agree that this voting bloc is very divergent, with many competing interest and factions depending on the region/education/socioeconomic. It is a voting bloc that unfortunately gets taken for granted by the democrat party, who always pay lip service and rarely deliver any substance to better the condition of the African American lives.

I believe one of the reason the African American voting bloc continue voting democrat is the perception of racism in America. Whether discrimination actually exist on a widespread scale in today's society is debatable, but the perception of racism is so deep-seated in the black community that it has become the de facto voting issue for the majority of this community, which I believe is counterproductive since legislation nowadays rarely implement race-based solutions as a matter of practice.

This perception may also have clouded and inhibited honest examinations of policies and positions the democrats have been pushing, which explains why the majority of the black voting bloc reliably and overwhelmingly pick democrat, even when they repeatedly fail to deliver results. There appears to be some push back happening as you said, starting with straight black males, and perhaps even educated blacks, who can see that the democrat party will continually push for policies against the black community's interest (welfare dependency, failing public schools,victim-hood mentality).
 
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Likes: cryptoadam
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#14
I've been reading some books about the Jim Crow era and this attitude of yours is nothing new.

There's always been some black men who totally downplay the impact of racism and discrimination

Holy shit you are one giant piece of trash. You forgot to call him a "house slave," but I think you hit every other condescending note in the playbook.
 
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cryptoadam

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Feb 21, 2018
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I have to say @Afro Republican made a very well thought out post expressing his views, and @Madonis basically came in here and proved exactly what he said, since from everything he read he just broke it down into RACISM.

Afro was saying Dems bury blacks under excuses of Racism and Oppression and Madonis followed that up by pulling the race card to prove exactly what he is saying.

And lets not act like the Dems don't have their own skeletons. Nordtham? His wife giving kids cotton. There was another Dem who got caught recently saying the N word. The same Dems that started the KKK, pushed through Jim Crow and Clinton signed the 3 strikes law.

I will remember something Larry Elder said, if you could waive a magic wand and make racism disapear how would that really change the day to day live of the average black male in America? Will that solve the problem of single parent families? Black on Black crime? Black drop out rates/education?
 

JordanN

Junior Member
Apr 21, 2012
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#16
That's not too hard to explain. America is a wealthy country. People want to go to places where there is a certain level of job opportunity and economic prosperity.
What's stopping them from making their own countries wealthy?
The USA did not fall out of the sky. The continent was originally covered in trees before enough people settled down and began building civilization.

Also, why is it the USA's obligation to accept immigrants? Are you saying living in the USA is a human right and it's wealth must be shared with outsiders?

Madonis said:
Doesn't mean folks from non-white races aren't suffering any discrimination in the U.S. If you think those same immigrants, whether legal or ilegal, aren't experiencing any sort of racial issues, then you simply haven't talked to enough of them.
Define "discrimination".
Is America the only country on earth where people are treated badly for their skin color? What makes U.S discrimination anymore exceptional than Africa or Asia?

Madonis said:
Because his campaign proposals about building the wall included several nods to racists.
But if the purpose of the wall is to prevent people from living next to these "racists" isn't he doing more good than harm? Unless again, are you suggesting it is a human right for everyone in the world to live in the USA?

Madonis said:
I've already addressed that. It also doesn't need to be behind all of today's woes. Your example doesn't really take into account thousands of stories, including both extensive coverage as well as actual judicial rulings, indicating that racism is still a factor. Not the only factor, of course, but those who pretend that racism is already over and done aren't being intellectually honest.
I believe racism is over in the sense that you can't actually end it.
This doesn't mean I'm advocating or defending stuff like race based violence, but the idea that we can create a utopian society where all humans are equal in every way is complete fiction.

It never existed in human history, and it never will.

Madonis said:
Only someone who is completely ignorant of history, both global and American history, could pretend to say such a thing with a straight face. Success is relative, because it depends on what you use as a point of reference, but even absolute success on, say, an economic level doesn't mean racism is non-existent.
It's not relative at all.

It is a fact that the U.S grants more success to all races than any other country on earth. The USA is such a blessing, that even the majority ethnic group that lives there, are not even the most successful/wealthiest on average.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income


Even the poorest group in the U.S, are still magnitudes more better off than in other countries where they do make up the majority.

 
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Afro Republican

GAF>INTERNET>GAF, BITCHES
Aug 24, 2016
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#17
This really is your whole political stance, isn't it? Then again, it's not like your username hides that.

I've been reading some books about the Jim Crow era and this attitude of yours is nothing new.

There's always been some black men who totally downplay the impact of racism and discrimination, or who are willing to support those who tell them such things don't matter. Fortunately, most black men and women are not blind to it. Why? Because they've experienced this by themselves. Not because of a politician.

Racism matters and exists. It's neither an excuse nor a perception, but a historical, practical and judicial fact.

Of course, I realize your tactic is now to point at illegal immigrants and blame them for every ill.

No doubt, it is likely a few black men will follow the pied piper that is Donald Trump. It's sad, but true.

Yet your predictions completely ignore impopular actions that Trump has taken, which would hurt him in a way that wasn't the case back in 2016, as well as the recent elections. Things are more complex than you want to believe.
I think this should be a bannable post, you put words in my mouth, ignored the thread, tried acting like i made opinions on things i never discussed in the OP, I never said anything about immigrants being the issue for "every ill" i never said racism doesn't exist, and all those jim crow laws still in the books are mostly in democratic cities. You're whole post is full of shit, it lies, it puts words in my mouth, and ignore the fact even the media pointed out the focus on this subject, and blaming them in many cases for the wins of some of the GOP candidates mentioned above (along with a thinly veiled insult). You're history shows similar style.

if you aren't able to actually discuss the topic without grandstanding and twisting the subject, well, there's another forum where they where they do that all the time.
 
Oct 21, 2018
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#19
Holy shit you are one giant piece of trash. You forgot to call him a "house slave," but I think you hit every other condescending note in the playbook.
That's a nice strawman you've created, but not one that matches the facts. I've criticized him and disagree with his arguments without insulting him at all. Pointing out that some black men have historically acted against their own interests and rights isn't an insult.

Perhaps you just want to hear a bunch of Republicans agreeing with each other? Sure sounds like it.

I have to say @Afro Republican made a very well thought out post expressing his views, and @Madonis basically came in here and proved exactly what he said, since from everything he read he just broke it down into RACISM.
It's sad to see you have absolutely no ability to detect nuance. I did stress the importance of racism precisely because Afro Republican (and, for that matter, JordanN) downplays the subject to an unreasonable degree, but I also acknowledged it's not the only factor.

Afro was saying Dems bury blacks under excuses of Racism and Oppression and Madonis followed that up by pulling the race card to prove exactly what he is saying.
No, that doesn't really prove anything. It's just using circular logic. You don't think racism matters, so obviously, if someone like me comes in and argues that racism exists, then you'll either get angry or think that "proves" your initial stance. Even though it doesn't.

And lets not act like the Dems don't have their own skeletons. Nordtham? His wife giving kids cotton. There was another Dem who got caught recently saying the N word. The same Dems that started the KKK, pushed through Jim Crow and Clinton signed the 3 strikes law.
Which, obviously, ignores what happened later. Democrats moved away from Jim Crow and the KKK while Republicans embraced both of those legacies in order to secure the Southern vote.

But, for the record, Nordtham should quit. Plenty of Democrats have asked him to do so.

I will remember something Larry Elder said, if you could waive a magic wand and make racism disapear how would that really change the day to day live of the average black male in America? Will that solve the problem of single parent families? Black on Black crime? Black drop out rates/education?
Those problems are not mutually exclusive. Solving racism, if it were so easy, wouldn't go against taking action to solve those issues. Which persist even under the current administration. As a side note, I sure wish someone could resurrect some of the black leaders who fought and even died for civil rights with the same magic wand and put them in the same room together with Larry Elder. I suspect they wouldn't agree with him about many topics.
 
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May 12, 2007
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#20
I have been hearing about the Black vote not swinging 95% democrat since I have been alive. It never happens. Unless you have concrete polling this is the same old story that happens every election cycle among conservatives.

What can happen is Black males not showing up to vote in the high percentage they normally vote, which could move some swing districts and states where 0.25% changes in vote count determine the outcome.

In Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas we trust, amen.
 
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Afro Republican

GAF>INTERNET>GAF, BITCHES
Aug 24, 2016
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#21
Which, obviously, ignores what happened later. Democrats moved away from Jim Crow and the KKK
They moved away from it so fast some of the laws in the cities and districts they've controlled for decades still haven't been removed. Also most of the discrimination happens in those same cities, and most of the police shooting, and the destruction of black businesses, and banking discrimination for businesses, and the fact the communities are worse with less opportunity and higher poverty than years ago.

If this is the result of "moving away" maybe they should move back.

Also you really need to actual read posts and not make up words that were never said and pulling quotes that never happened, among other issues, because youw ant to grandstand and try to argue in topics not discussed, also apparently you KNOW my opinions on issues and what I think doesn't matter or exist. Although in reality you don't know, so i would recommend you stop doing that, but you seem to love doing it so...
 
Nov 5, 2016
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#22
I feel like there’s a new “this will cost dems the election” or “this will secure Trump’s re-election” headline every week.

It won’t be one thing. It’s been death by a thousand cuts for the Democratic Party for awhile now. Trump will most likely get re-elected simply because

A.) The Democratic Party is just in rough shape currently.

and

B.) using a sports metaphor, Trump is a “matchup nightmare.” He’s a bad matchup for any of our top candidates. I don’t think we have the answer to him.

Just my opinions, of course
 
Oct 21, 2018
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#23
I think this should be a bannable post, you put words in my mouth, ignored the thread, tried acting like i made opinions on things i never discussed in the OP, I never said anything about immigrants being the issue for "every ill" i never said racism doesn't exist, and all those jim crow laws still in the books are mostly in democratic cities. You're whole post is full of shit, it lies, it puts words in my mouth, and ignore the fact even the media pointed out the focus on this subject, and blaming them in many cases for the wins of some of the GOP candidates mentioned above (along with a thinly veiled insult). You're history shows similar style.
If so, then it would simply confirm that you aren't willing to read my post in good faith nor tolerate any dissent around here. I've respected you as a person, both now and in the past, but I don't have to share your political predictions and way of thinking, nor what it represents in the context of 21st century American politics. Neither politically nor socially speaking. That, in a few words, deserves to be countered in multiple ways.

Your opening post contains references, whether implicit or tangential, to a few of these topics. Paraphrasing, you claim that race doesn't really matter other than as an excuse and that black people shouldn't focus on that. Obviously that's true from your perspective, which is what I am criticizing, so my post is intended to take an opposing stance. That's precisely the point. If you just want full agreement or applause, then that's not what I am going to give you.

It's not an insult to point out there have been black people throughout history who previously acted against their interests, whether in 1895 or 2019.
 

Afro Republican

GAF>INTERNET>GAF, BITCHES
Aug 24, 2016
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#24
Your opening post contains references, whether implicit or tangential, to a few of these topics. Paraphrasing, you claim that race doesn't really matter other than as an excuse and that black people shouldn't focus on that. .
This can only be the conclusion if you take part of the OP out of context to push some argument that was never part of the OP. You jumped to your own conclusions based on nothing and trying to act like you actually saw this in the OP when you know that was never implied or said. The point was they don't actually fix problems and they use racism and oppression as an excuse to avoid fixing problems, has nothing to do with your completely made up interpretation, which was clearly done intentionally.

You think putting down some confederate flags is going to fix South Chicago and bring back jobs and education opportunities? Apparently so, but you also decided to add an additional made up reason tot he OP, that somehow I said Race doesn't matter and blacks shouldn't focus on it, when that implication can't be pulled out of the Op without a heavy dosage of crack cocaine before reading.

Or most likely, as with the rest of your post that had nothing to do with the OP, and your post history, done to create an argument because you seem to be looking for a fight.
 
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cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
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#25
It's sad to see you have absolutely no ability to detect nuance. I did stress the importance of racism precisely because Afro Republican (and, for that matter, JordanN) downplays the subject to an unreasonable degree, but I also acknowledged it's not the only factor.
I didn't see much nuance in your post

"There's always been some black men who totally downplay the impact of racism and discrimination, or who are willing to support those who tell them such things don't matter.

Racism matters and exists. It's neither an excuse nor a perception, but a historical, practical and judicial fact.

No doubt, it is likely a few black men will follow the pied piper that is Donald Trump. It's sad, but true. "

Seems like you are just falling back on racism to me.


No, that doesn't really prove anything. It's just using circular logic. You don't think racism matters, so obviously, if someone like me comes in and argues that racism exists, then you'll either get angry or think that "proves" your initial stance. Even though it doesn't..
Racism exist just like Antisemtism exist, but not to the extent you want to make it out to be. And it isn't circular logic since you came in talking about racism which is the point that Afro was making, Dems just keep using the race card.


Which, obviously, ignores what happened later. Democrats moved away from Jim Crow and the KKK while Republicans embraced both of those legacies in order to secure the Southern vote.

But, for the record, Nordtham should quit. Plenty of Democrats have asked him to do so.
But the Dems still have racist in their party so saying that its only the Republicans but not the Dems isn't true. Heres a novel idea people are people even across different party lines and you have a good chance at meeting a racist Dem as you do meeting a racist republican.

Neither party today can say they are 100% clean of racist.


Those problems are not mutually exclusive. Solving racism, if it were so easy, wouldn't go against taking action to solve those issues. Which persist even under the current administration. As a side note, I sure wish someone could resurrect some of the black leaders who fought and even died for civil rights with the same magic wand and put them in the same room together with Larry Elder. I suspect they wouldn't agree with him about many topics.
What does solving racism mean? I don't think you can ever make every person un racist. I mean blacks by % are the most antisemtic people in the US but I don't think that we can "solve" that problem. Jews just push forward and focus on what they can control.

I am not saying give up the fight against racism, of course fighting bias and racism is 100% important and should be done vigiantly, but in 2019 blacks need to look inward and solve the issues in their communites because they can control these things themselves, and number 1 needs to be to restore the family unit and end this 70+ single parent households. Stats show that fatherless children are more likely to drop out, be poor and wind up in prison.

In todays society there isn't anything stopping a black person from going to whatever college they want or getting whatever job they want. There is even affirmative action in place. If a school or job didn't hire someone based on skin color they would be destroyed. We have people losing their livelyhoods because they turn ask a black person to leave a swimming pool, there is no way a company or college could get away with turning away black people.

Is America perfect of course not, is there discrimination I am sure there is. But its not to the point that the left/media likes to play it up that its an every day occurence that should consume black mens lives.
 
Oct 21, 2018
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They moved away from it so fast some of the laws in the cities and districts they've controlled for decades still haven't been removed. Also most of the discrimination happens in those same cities, and most of the police shooting, and the destruction of black businesses, and banking discrimination for businesses, and the fact the communities are worse with less opportunity and higher poverty than years ago.
All of that discrimination also exists in districts and cities under current Republican rule. Which is part of my point since racism exists throughout the U.S. and is not exclusive to either party.

My emphasis has been on the Republicans because it sounds like you focus the blame on Democrats and then give the Republicans a clean record on the subject, which is not the case. Neither party is blameless. Yet it's a fact, as described by historical evidence, that the GOP chose to side with racists after the mid-1960s and intentionally courted Southern voters who were mad at civil rights legislation. There are indeed some black people who support the GOP and they are free to do so, but that legacy sure hasn't disappeared.

Look, I get it. You don't want to talk about these things at length. Fine, I'll stop.
 
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You have literally zero numbers from exit polling, surveys, polling data, census information, district splits, or voter registration data to support any of this. You establish a bias weight for black men by attaching several 2016 red states to their voting pattern (or lack thereof) with exactly nil backing it other than your personal rhetorical observations.

You attempt to deflect the ~89 percent black Dem vote exit poll data by claiming that certain other minorities in certain states (neither defined) add other minorities to that figure, which artificially inflate the black vote (even though blacks vote far more for Dems than any other minority, so odds are any additional "outside" minorities added to that pool would more likely bring that rate down).

I'm not willing to dismiss the rhetorical merits of this observation, because straight black men are likelier to vote Republican than any other subgroup of the black demographic. I just don't think there's a compelling (or any) statistical case being made here.
 
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Likes: Madonis

Afro Republican

GAF>INTERNET>GAF, BITCHES
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#28
All of that discrimination also exists in districts and cities under current Republican rule. .
Which doesn't address the problem and completely tried to avoid the topic of black issues by doing a "them too", which doesn't work because democrats are still supporting the same policies that damaged the communities 60 years ago today, and the republicans don't.

Again

My emphasis has been on the Republicans because it sounds like you focus the blame on Democrats and then give the Republicans a clean record on the subject, which is not the case.
Except it doesn't at all, since the thread focuses more on the democrats ability to win the EC, and not your generic democrat arguing point which has nothing to do with the thread. Again all you're doing is creating arguments to create new arguments.
 

Afro Republican

GAF>INTERNET>GAF, BITCHES
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#29
You have literally zero numbers from exit polling, surveys, polling data, census information, district splits, or voter registration data to support any of this.
I'm going to let you research the ones I mentioned above before you hurt yourself much more. It's not all of them but the fact you didn't even check out the ones I put in the Op shows you only came to reject the topic and not discuss it. All those "why black men voted for _" type articles are all still there. As a bonus look at those reactions from that 13% of black males voting for trump in 2016 to see similar posts like yours.
 
Mar 3, 2010
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I'm going to let you research the ones I mentioned above before you hurt yourself much more. It's not all of them but the fact you didn't even check out the ones I put in the Op shows you only came to reject the topic and not discuss it. All those "why black men voted for _" type articles are all still there. As a bonus look at those reactions from that 13% of black males voting for trump in 2016 to see similar posts like yours.
I consider myself well read on this particular subject. That's irrelevant to making your overall point compelling. When presenting your case - especially one immersed in statistical data like voting trends of a particular voting bloc - you must also present verifiable data.

In my experience, people who tell me to "go research it" myself as opposed to making a convincing and well sourced argument usually have little argumentative stance to begin with.

But I can work within the limited confines of your rhetorical argument. In fact, I agree with one plank of your conclusion: that straight black men are more likely to vote against Democrats than any other black subgroup.

There are more vocal displays of straight black men breaking from the conventional Dem party, but generally that voting bloc remains a pillar of the Dem base. At least through 2018, which belies your assertion about a "waking up" for straight black men in 2016.
 

Arkage

Gold Member
Sep 25, 2012
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#31
"Blacks have been thrown around by Democrats for decades."

Blacks hold an exponentially higher number of Democratic seats than Republican seats since the 60s-70s, especially in areas where black populations are highest. Looks like white Rebublican men truly are the salvation of the black race as black people clearly don't know how to govern themselves. Or black people have been brainwashed by the libs. Or is this not really your claim?

Queue Ben Shapiro claiming Democrats are the true antisemites when the vast majority of Jews vote Democrat and hold Democratic offices. Must be tough being on the extreme political opposite of your racial identity group while simultaneously pretending to speak as a representative for said racial identity group.

Penn will be a wild card as there's a lot of push to bring in more immigrants, a good chunk illegal, and there have been times where Penn has admitted to illegals voting in election,. including 11,000 in one district and others under investigation. He could still win them, but it won't be easy, just like with Virginia and it's refugee problem and felon voting platform. which gave Hillary the win after 98% of the vote came in and it was still red and flipped blew by getting a surge of votes out of nowhere.
Yea it's not like PA has been blue since 88 and only turned Red because of severe Clinton baggage. Clearly the only way it could turn blue ever again, or any of these states, is a combination of illegal Latino criminal immigrants, legal immigrants that are secret ISIS cells, convicted murderers and felons, refugees (who are also secret ISIS cells), and any other impoverished ignorant and violent masses.

The coolaid you drink is hella strong, but it shouldn't be surprising when your nic is literally screaming "partisan."
 

Afro Republican

GAF>INTERNET>GAF, BITCHES
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#32
I consider myself well read on this particular subject. That's irrelevant to making your overall point compelling. When presenting your case - especially one immersed in statistical data like voting trends of a particular voting bloc - you must also present verifiable data.
So you're challenging the OP, but don't actually debunk the examples in the OP, and when called out on it make generic excuse #34.

I'm just saying if you're going to challenge to OP with a post like the one you put in usually one would try actually make sure the challenge was research before hand. Kind of pointless to challenge a statement and then not really do anything.

I'd recommend actually looking up the examples YOU CHALLENGED in the OP, and then you'll see those are verified by the many articles talking about black men voting for republicans and giving those the win, and you may find some other examples as well on top of that.

BTW did you know that in 2016 13% of black men voted for trump?
 

Afro Republican

GAF>INTERNET>GAF, BITCHES
Aug 24, 2016
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#33
"Blacks have been thrown around by Democrats for decades."

Blacks hold an exponentially higher number of Democratic seats than Republican seats since the 60s-70s, especially in areas where black populations are highest. Looks like white Rebublican men truly are the salvation of the black race as black people clearly don't know how to govern themselves.
I mean you and the other guy have both made up statements that are clearly not in the OP that were not even implied by the most marginal percentage, if you want to make shit up to start fights leave the thread.
 
Likes: bucyou
Aug 30, 2014
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#35
Democrats are far more racist in policy and action than Republicans are, imho. I don't think it's intentional, I think they think they are being anti-racist but end up playing white savior and end up backing plans that deeply harm the communities they try to protect usually due to either bad economics or misjudging human nature. Then, in order to win elections,they paint anyone against their failed programs as racist, and instead think throwing even more good money after bad will fix it. They amplify the worst caricatures of racist rednecks [which itself is a racist narrative] to villify conservatives. They insult and demean any minority voice who speaks against these programs as a race traitor, or worse. The further abstract it all by removing all personal responsibility for ones actions and instead once again painting 'racist' society as the cause for any and all transgressions.

Black children need the same thing every other person on this planet needs. Loving two parent families, father and mother. But the far left run away from even this obvious point, painting it as sexist and homophobic [see the recent Terry Crews scandal]. The destruction of the nuclear family is harming everyone, though it is hitting black families first [poor white families aren't that far behind]. Programs that promote and reward single motherhood, no matter how well intentioned, harm poor communities regardless of race.

"When Moynihan wrote in 1965 on the coming destruction of the Black family, the out-of-wedlock birth rate was 25% among Blacks.[19] In 1991, 68% of Black children were born outside of marriage.[20] In 2011, 72% of Black babies were born to unmarried mothers.[21][22] In 2015, 77% of Black babies were born to unmarried mothers."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_family_structure

77% is beyond a crisis. Its unconscionable. Without solving this, you can not solve the abundant issues it directly causes, such as the unchecked aggression often found in males without fathers [regardless of race]. Pointing the finger at racism, and not at the policies that have created this dire problem, is the problem. Again, this isn't simply hurting black communities, they just happen to be at the front lines.

Thomas Sowell wrote:
We are told that such riots are a result of black poverty and white racism. But in fact -- for those who still have some respect for facts -- black poverty was far worse, and white racism was far worse, prior to 1960. But violent crime within black ghettos was far less.

Murder rates among black males were going down -- repeat, DOWN -- during the much lamented 1950s, while it went up after the much celebrated 1960s, reaching levels more than double what they had been before.

Most black children were raised in two-parent families prior to the 1960s. But today the great majority of black children are raised in one-parent families.

Such trends are not unique to blacks, nor even to the United States.

The welfare state has led to remarkably similar trends among the white underclass in England over the same period.

-Thomas Sowell

https://www.pennlive.com/opinion/2015/05/poor_blacks_looking_for_someon.html/QUOTE]
 
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Yes he is.

Now imagine that in the real world, multiplied by 1000x. Welcome to being a black man with an opinion that breaks from the democrats
No, I didn't. You can repeat it a dozen times and that will still be false. I've never used the term. Instead, I answered that question by referring to a concrete historical situation (Atlanta) and even gave a date (1895). No need to use any other expression that would obscure, rather than clarify, what I meant.

And once again, there are some black men who vote for the GOP. Most will not make that choice, however, and even this thread's more "optimistic" electoral predictions aren't claiming that the majority of them are now going to suddenly support Trump.

That doesn't mean such decisions can't be questioned or criticized, unless you wish to simply have a conversation between Republican voters. Yet if you think black folks are wrong for supporting Democrats, then logically enough, you'll also run into black people who think supporting Republicans is in fact a mistake too. There's more than one side to this argument, even if this thread only wants to focus on how "bad" Democrats are and, by extension, how "good" the Republicans would be.
 

JordanN

Junior Member
Apr 21, 2012
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#39
That doesn't mean such decisions can't be questioned or criticized, unless you wish to simply have a conversation between Republican voters. Yet if you think black folks are wrong for supporting Democrats, then logically enough, you'll also run into black people who think supporting Republicans is in fact a mistake too. There's more than one side to this argument, even if this thread only wants to focus on how "bad" Democrats are and, by extension, how "good" the Republicans would be.
I personally think it's not Blacks voting for Democrats is bad, it's the fact that they've only voted for them in above 80% numbers since the 1960s.

It shows one big flaw in democracy that I've constantly talked about on these boards. Without any nuance, what's the point?

Whenever white people vote every election, it's always split 50/50. Which is ok. It means Democrats and Republicans are in equal competition with each other.

But if you got another group who just votes for one party and the casus belli is because "lol Republicans are racist" then democracy is showing its ass.

I don't hold this criticism for just the black vote. You can look at polling data and the same exists for other racial groups, although it's not as extreme.
 
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Ailynn

Faith - Hope - Love
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#40
I hope you can get into a good place soon @Ailynn :)
You just need to unplug. The country (world) is not nearly as bitter, spiteful and divided as the internet and news media would have you believe. Most people just wanna be good people, treat others well and be treated well. Have faith in that.
Thank you both so much. :) I'm okay, I promise...but I do tend to be a sponge for the emotions of others. Unplugging for a while is exactly what I need in order to recharge. Whether I actually follow through with it, well see...but I'll give it a shot. Thank you. :messenger_heart:
 
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#41
No, I didn't. You can repeat it a dozen times and that will still be false. I've never used the term. Instead, I answered that question by referring to a concrete historical situation (Atlanta) and even gave a date (1895). No need to use any other expression that would obscure, rather than clarify, what I meant.

And once again, there are some black men who vote for the GOP. Most will not make that choice, however, and even this thread's more "optimistic" electoral predictions aren't claiming that the majority of them are now going to suddenly support Trump.

That doesn't mean such decisions can't be questioned or criticized, unless you wish to simply have a conversation between Republican voters. Yet if you think black folks are wrong for supporting Democrats, then logically enough, you'll also run into black people who think supporting Republicans is in fact a mistake too. There's more than one side to this argument, even if this thread only wants to focus on how "bad" Democrats are and, by extension, how "good" the Republicans would be.
Hmmm no one said you used you used the term. They said you were implying it

Which you still are
 
Aug 22, 2018
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#42
Whenever white people vote every election, it's always split 50/50. Which is ok. It means Democrats and Republicans are in equal competition with each other.

But if you got another group who just votes for one party and the casus belli is because "lol Republicans are racist" then democracy is showing its ass.

I don't hold this criticism for just the black vote. You can look at polling data and the same exists for other racial groups, although it's not as extreme.
This is indeed a big problem. When voting choice is not based on choosing the party which will create the society you wish to see and an economy that benefits you, you end up with a mess. The obvious examples to compare with here are Northern Ireland and South Africa. In Northern Ireland, people vote on religious lines. That means that neither party has any chance of winning votes outside of their religious group, nor of losing votes from their own group (outside of turnout % at least). This means there's literally no incentive to give a fuck about policies.

In South Africa, most voting is on racial lines. A black majority country will never elect a white person as president, and again that limits the incentive for political parties to really focus on policy.

A sign of political maturity is that voting is not by things like race or religion but instead by political interest. That the US is reverting to that state illustrates that in some respects politics has gone backwards there. If black people are beginning to vote Republican, despite my lack of love for the party I have to call that a good thing, and something that will incentivise both parties to stop taking for granted or ignoring the black vote, and maybe they might actually start doing something to help them.
 
Feb 19, 2014
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#43
In South Africa, most voting is on racial lines. A black majority country will never elect a white person as president, and again that limits the incentive for political parties to really focus on policy.
We had a president who was accused of rape, thought HIV could be removed with a shower, married several women at the same time, spent millions of tax dollars on mansions for them, lied (badly) about it in court, openly endorsed racial violence, was involved in arms dealing, was involved in the largest corruption scandal the country has ever had and then was only removed after his political party realised he was making them look bad. 9 years later.

But it's ok. The rural masses would still have voted for him again. They're ok with being fucked over, as long as it isn't by a white dude.
 
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We had a president who was accused of rape, thought HIV could be removed with a shower, married several women at the same time, spent millions of tax dollars on mansions for them, lied (badly) about it in court, openly endorsed racial violence, was involved in arms dealing, was involved in the largest corruption scandal the country has ever had and then was only removed after his political party realised he was making them look bad. 9 years later.

But it's ok. The rural masses would still have voted for him again. They're ok with being fucked over, as long as it isn't by a white dude.
Yep, I have a South African friend (she's a bit of a globe-trotter) who likes to keep me up-to-date on this stuff. It's an absolute shit-show over there, a far cry from Nelson Mandela's dream of a rainbow nation. In some ways it was probably never achievable and perhaps he was naive to think it could be - without a great man to follow on from him there was, in hindsight, no chance of it ever succeeding, with South Africa in many ways heading down the path of Zimbabwe.
 
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Jun 20, 2018
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#45
I dont think there is a issue for democrats, yes you have some leave but not in the numbers that actually move the needle one way or the other same as it was in the midterm basically.
 
May 22, 2018
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#46
OP do you actually have any statistical studies or references to back up the idea that "Straight black men" are "fleeing" away from voting Democrat? I looked for links in your OP but there doesn't seem to be any. Its just you talking about it.
 
Aug 3, 2011
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Until there is a constant shift in voting trends, black voting trends will continue to be democratic. As the GOP doesn't even attempt to represent these people.

I do agree the Democratic party takes them for granted and doesn't represent them enough though.
 
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OP do you actually have any statistical studies or references to back up the idea that "Straight black men" are "fleeing" away from voting Democrat? I looked for links in your OP but there doesn't seem to be any. Its just you talking about it.
Welcome to an Afro Republican thread. Basically his soapbox with no facts.

Sorry for DP
 
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Afro Republican

GAF>INTERNET>GAF, BITCHES
Aug 24, 2016
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#49
It's an absolute shit-show over there, a far cry from Nelson Mandela's dream of a rainbow nation.
Actually Mandela is kind of one of the sources of the current problem, and the poorer areas vote counts have proven to be rigged, but the European/UN interests don't care about he president being corrupt if he's for their interests. A side effect of not really being a country. and more of a extension of socialist and left win values in Africa, which fortunately most of the continent has ignored and criticized except for coincidentally the countries near SA.

I dont think there is a issue for democrats, yes you have some leave but not in the numbers that actually move the needle one way or the other same as it was in the midterm basically.
It's literally moving the needle and giving the GOP wins. It was an issue democratic journalists and news organizations complained about before, the only reason why it's not talked about is because it was buried and replaced with new excuses. There wouldn't be articles talking about black men specifically if it wasn't happening.

OP do you actually have any statistical studies or references to back up the idea that "Straight black men" are "fleeing" away from voting Democrat? I looked for links in your OP but there doesn't seem to be any. Its just you talking about it.
Another person not looking at the examples put in the OP. If you actually looked at it you would search the ones I mentioned and seen the articles about them.

Welcome to an Afro Republican thread. Basically his soapbox with no facts.

Sorry for DP
You reject it because it doesn't agree with what you want, you don't seem competent enough to actually look up the examples given because you know you'll see you're wrong.

One example is the Stacey Abrams vs. Brian Kemp issue that's very easy t find but of course you intentionally didn't look it up, you can find the reactions from mostly white women (the irony) and a good chunk of black women negative reactions to reports bout Black Men helping give Kemp the victory and margin needed to avoid a run off. Even a washinton post article. It's really simple, if you want to "challenge" the op then prove it wrong, the issue is those examples are easy to find and they exist so you can't actually challenge it you think that if you come in the thread saying "there's no facts" without anything with it that it's enough for the 6 democrats on the board that don't look stuff up.

Another issue with all the criticism posts is that theirs a very big failure since the 30's for the Democrats and their voters the realize the EC is a chess board, it's not a popularity runway contest, so you assume that the thread title is implying 80$ of black men are voting republican or some other large numbers because you don't get how the EC works.

Look at the 2016 map above for Trump, if 5 of the states that got good black male support stay the same or increase, and it never drops the democrats can never win another election with the same map even if all the black males in all the other states switched to vote 100% democrat. This is a chess board, not a dance studio, that's why Democrats have lost despite winning the popular vote multiple times, you have to actually put in work and actually go places.

I gave a big example that all of you ignored about what states Hillary could have gotten to win, states that were ignored and called fly over, a few of them were even ignored by the GOP. Of course you'll make excuse for why shes didn't need to campaign in those states, despite the fact is she did she would have likely won.

This really isn't that hard, you guys want to change the EC because you suck at the EC, and instead of improving how you tackle the EC the voters such as yourselves and the party put other excuses on the table to move the blame which is pointless. There's a reason even big democrat strategists say that the party is becoming a coastal party, and your ability to spread out is becoming harder and harder.

If you want Trump to lose you and they need to start paying damn attention to things like this instead of dismissing it out of ignorance and ideology. You say you can think for yourselves and not just what others do yet none of you have ever stopped and though about the above, you went with what the supportive friends you have and politicians said, maybe some democrat organization, that's cool and all but if everyones being led by blind mice you can't figure out you're on the wrong trail.
 
Likes: cryptoadam
Sep 17, 2012
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#50
Yep, I have a South African friend (she's a bit of a globe-trotter) who likes to keep me up-to-date on this stuff. It's an absolute shit-show over there, a far cry from Nelson Mandela's dream of a rainbow nation. In some ways it was probably never achievable and perhaps he was naive to think it could be - without a great man to follow on from him there was, in hindsight, no chance of it ever succeeding, with South Africa in many ways heading down the path of Zimbabwe.
Unfortunately Caesar's wife was not above suspicion when it comes to Mandela