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Social Drama Event Denby-Alton HS Football Game Marred by Racist Taunts

DeafTourette

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From what I've read and looked up on Twitter (I really hate that platform), the parents are sick fools! The kids (both teams) actually should be commended for playing a tough game and no brawls.

There's some misinformation out there but I'm willing to take the L if it turns out the Denby kids are at fault but it doesn't seem like it so far ...






 
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finowns

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Generally there is a bias of the media (and people) pushing a ‘white as oppressors’ narrative. So I’ll be very skeptical and also take the L if it turns out differently than I believe.
 

HeresJohnny

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Both are inexcusable acts. Calling people racial slurs and taking the knee on fucking Thanksgiving. Both should GTFO assuming it's true.
 
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DeafTourette

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Both are inexcusable acts. Calling people racial slurs and taking the knee on fucking Thanksgiving. Both should GTFO assuming it's true.
Taking the knee shouldn't result in grown adults doing all that to kids at a game if it's completely true. And it wasn't saying all the white fans... Just some of them. So "whites as oppressors" isn't the narrative. Even one of the moms of two of the fans say her kids were shook at it. So not even a majority of them did that.
 

HeresJohnny

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Taking the knee shouldn't result in grown adults doing all that to kids at a game if it's completely true. And it wasn't saying all the white fans... Just some of them. So "whites as oppressors" isn't the narrative. Even one of the moms of two of the fans say her kids were shook at it. So not even a majority of them did that.
Nope, it shouldn't. But hateful people especially like it when they believe they have a good reason to be, and seeing a bunch of little ungrateful shits is a perfect opportunity to do so. Seeing these kids take the knee didn't suddenly turn anyone any more or less racist than they already were assuming this is all true, but I believe both sides are disgusting. One is acting hatefully towards a group, while another is acting hateful of their own country. Both are disgusting.
 

finowns

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Taking the knee shouldn't result in grown adults doing all that to kids at a game if it's completely true. And it wasn't saying all the white fans... Just some of them. So "whites as oppressors" isn't the narrative. Even one of the moms of two of the fans say her kids were shook at it. So not even a majority of them did that.
Well I’ll be surprised if it just a bunch a white people behaving badly. I imagine there’s more to it.
 
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Taking the knee shouldn't result in grown adults doing all that to kids at a game if it's completely true. And it wasn't saying all the white fans... Just some of them. So "whites as oppressors" isn't the narrative. Even one of the moms of two of the fans say her kids were shook at it. So not even a majority of them did that.
Your're right, hurling racial epithets is peak shitty behavior, and spitting on kids is battery against minors.

If I pulled a John McClain from Die Hard 3 in any ghetto in this country I wouldn't expect to escape with my life. Expressing "Fuck America" on our arguably 2nd most sacred national holiday during our definitely most sacred national ritual is begging for hatred.
 

DeafTourette

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An act of civil disobedience that didn't result in anyone getting hurt or any property being destroyed... And that's disrespectful?

Y'all realize that's how a lot of folks thought of Dr. King during the Civil Rights Movement, right? A holiday is more important than someone's right to protest police violence? Because the government and the police are perfect, right?


Those veterans fought for those kids to be able to that protesting (first amendment and all that) just as YOU all have the right to disagree, thanks to their sacrifices. There are vets that support this non-violent freedom of speech.... Even if you lot don't.
 
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Miku Miku

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Both are inexcusable acts. Calling people racial slurs and taking the knee on fucking Thanksgiving. Both should GTFO assuming it's true.
No way dude. One is blatant racism associated with slavery. The other is a protest by children with the intent of protesting unjust police excessive force. Please tell me you dont equate the two. You seem like a normal guy.
 
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Clarify something for me please:

Do these Almont fans dish out racist abuse when players of the opposing team are not taking the knee on a national holiday?

Additionally, this detail from the OP's source article caught my eye:

Almont won the game 36-8. Referees called it early citing excessive personal fouls by Denby players.
 
Dec 15, 2011
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National holiday, so you have to show respect? What is this, North Korea?
I've not stated any positions only asked questions to get a broader understanding.

If you intend to replace information with alarmist rhetoric then I don't think you're really helping anyone understand anything.
 

Miku Miku

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I've not stated any positions only asked questions to get a broader understanding.

If you intend to replace information with alarmist rhetoric then I don't think you're really helping anyone understand anything.
Even mentioning that it's a national holiday is literally irrelevant unless you are implying that citizens must show reverence for the state. It's not alarmist. I'm arguing against a position.
 
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Dec 15, 2011
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Even mentioning that it's a national holiday is literally irrelevant unless you are implying that citizens must show reverence for the state. It's not alarmist. I'm arguing against a position.
I'm not implying anything and I've made it clear I haven't stated a position.
If you claim you are arguing against an position and that position hasn't even been stated then you confessing to using a strawman fallacy.

I'm trying to gather relevant factors and context.
I believe a lot of arguments are driven by correlation = causation logic. Well, if so, it's important to understand what things correlate.
If, as I firmly believe, that correlation = causation is wildly unstable logic to use then it is dishonest to cherry-pick what can be correlated and what cannot.

Sadly this exchange shows that it is increasingly common to not be allowed to ask questions to understand something.
The reaction to asking questions to understand something is greeted with outrage and words being put into other's mouths instead of answering straightforward questions.

Do you see how that is unhelpful?
Do you see why such obstruction to wanting to understand immediately raises a great many more questions?

So, for the sake of the benefit of the doubt, I will ask my question again:

Clarify something for me please:

Do these Almont fans dish out racist abuse when players of the opposing team are not taking the knee on a national holiday?
 
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Miku Miku

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I'm not implying anything and I've made it clear I haven't stated a position.
If you claim you are arguing against an position and that position hasn't even been stated then you confessing to using a strawman fallacy.

I'm trying to gather relevant factors and context.
I believe a lot of arguments are driven by correlation = causation logic. Well, if so, it's important to understand what things correlate.
If, as I firmly believe, that correlation = causation is wildly unstable logic to use then it is dishonest to cherry-pick what can be correlated and what cannot.

Sadly this exchange shows that it is increasingly common to not be allowed to ask questions to understand something.
The reaction to asking questions to understand something is greeted with outrage and words being put into other's mouths instead of answering straightforward questions.

Do you see how that is unhelpful?
Do you see why such obstruction to wanting to understand immediately raises a great many more questions?

So, for the sake of the benefit of the doubt, I will ask my question again:

Clarify something for me please:

Do these Almont fans dish out racist abuse when players of the opposing team are not taking the knee on a national holiday?
I'm not outraged. I'm not alarmist. I'm just saying that implying that a national holiday ACTUALLY REQUIRES reverence is on par with a dictatorship. Freedom is displayed with the ability to be irreverent to the state. So I propose we take "national holiday" off the list of acceptable variables.
 
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Dec 15, 2011
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I'm not outraged. I'm not alarmist. I'm just saying that implying that a national holiday ACTUALLY REQUIRES reverence is on par with a dictatorship. Freedom is displayed with the ability to be irreverent to the state. So I propose we take "national holiday" off the list of acceptable variables.
No. I am not prepared to compromise understanding for the sake of ideology, emotion or feelings.
You are arguing your own strawman fallacy instead of answering a direct question.

I'm trying to understand relevant factors about events that occurred.
To do that I have asked a question.
I've asked it twice.

Are you prepared to answer my question as it has been asked or do you intend to keep arguing your strawman?
 
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matt404au

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An act of civil disobedience that didn't result in anyone getting hurt or any property being destroyed... And that's disrespectful?

Y'all realize that's how a lot of folks thought of Dr. King during the Civil Rights Movement, right? A holiday is more important than someone's right to protest police violence? Because the government and the police are perfect, right?


Those veterans fought for those kids to be able to that protesting (first amendment and all that) just as YOU all have the right to disagree, thanks to their sacrifices. There are vets that support this non-violent freedom of speech.... Even if you lot don't.
Which civil rights were they protesting for?
 

Miku Miku

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I'm not implying anything and I've made it clear I haven't stated a position.
If you claim you are arguing against an position and that position hasn't even been stated then you confessing to using a strawman fallacy.

I'm trying to gather relevant factors and context.
I believe a lot of arguments are driven by correlation = causation logic. Well, if so, it's important to understand what things correlate.
If, as I firmly believe, that correlation = causation is wildly unstable logic to use then it is dishonest to cherry-pick what can be correlated and what cannot.

Sadly this exchange shows that it is increasingly common to not be allowed to ask questions to understand something.
The reaction to asking questions to understand something is greeted with outrage and words being put into other's mouths instead of answering straightforward questions.

Do you see how that is unhelpful?
Do you see why such obstruction to wanting to understand immediately raises a great many more questions?

So, for the sake of the benefit of the doubt, I will ask my question again:

Clarify something for me please:

Do these Almont fans dish out racist abuse when players of the opposing team are not taking the knee on a national holiday?
Answer: who knows? Maybe they're racist outside of the game? It's an impossible question to answer.
 
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PKM

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What most likely happend.

Players kneeled. People said some shit in the stands, more then likely not racist. At the most 'Look at these fucking idiots'

Black team got smashed in the game and in doing so lost their cool at the same time and fouled the fuck out the game.

Both teams leaving, words between black team and white band were exchanged.

Fight/pushing ensues.

Of course parents are outraged, they also just witnessed a salty team commit enough fouls to get the game cancelled.

Words, trash, spitting was dished out at a team trying to rush the stands, a team who just FOULED out of a FOOTBALL game..a team who just put hands on a god damn kid with a trombone.

Race Card got pulled to explain away all the 'whys' rather then we lost out cool during the game cause we were getting smashed which carried over to post-game.

If the roles were reversed the white team wouldnt have made it off the field due to over fouling.
They would have got jumped during play or leaving the field but the stands, the band, the other team etc..
And it would all be swept under the carpet cause some one would say "I saw #15 mumble the N bomb" And the town and players would get a free pass for attacking them.

Sorry, as I white dude I know we get brow beaten and force fed diversity training via work, school and the media that its farfetched your gonna encounter a large group of racist in one setting. You might get one drunk dude or some ones crazy uncle but your not gonna get 100+ white middle class parents acting the fool.
The most they will do is some underhanded racist shit like deny your loan or toss your resume in the trash.
Becky the nurse and John the Home Depot manager arent this spooky 1930 Klansmen calling 16 year old boys N bombs in a crowd.
 
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HeresJohnny

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No way dude. One is blatant racism associated with slavery. The other is a protest by children with the intent of protesting unjust police excessive force. Please tell me you dont equate the two. You seem like a normal guy.
I said they’re both hateful acts and disgusting (even more so in this case because those kids don’t even know what they’re protesting; they’re just going out there with whatever garbage about cops their parents filled their minds with, not personal experience and reasoned logic to weigh), which they are imo. It’s not about one being equal to the other.
 
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DeafTourette

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Which civil rights were they protesting for?
You and I both know that protesting isn't just about civil rights. That said, since Kaepernick was the one who started it and SAID MULTIPLE TIMES why he did it... It's been the preferred method of protest against police violence against unarmed, non-criminal civilians amongst athletes of all colors.
 
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oagboghi2

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I'm not outraged. I'm not alarmist. I'm just saying that implying that a national holiday ACTUALLY REQUIRES reverence is on par with a dictatorship. Freedom is displayed with the ability to be irreverent to the state. So I propose we take "national holiday" off the list of acceptable variables.
Except no one said that.

Why are you avoiding the question
 

matt404au

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You and I both know that protesting isn't just about civil rights. That said, since Kaepernick was the one who started it and SAID MULTIPLE TIMES why he did it... It's been the preferred method of protest against police violence against unarmed, non-criminal civilians amongst athletes of all colors.
But his protests were always illegitimate because his claims aren’t supported by evidence.
 

Chunk Loves Sloth

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I don't care where (just far)
Man. We still spinning our wheels about the anthem protests? This is one of those things that just seems like nobody even wants to change their mind about, no matter what

For me a peaceful protest is just a peaceful protest. Kneel if you want, stand if you want, cartwheel if you want.

If you are reminded of racial injustice and systemic oppression when you see the flag and hear the anthem, I understand.

If you are reminded of sacrifice, heroism, duty, service, and patriotism when you hear the anthem and see the flag, I undertand.

Tolerance.
Tolerate opposing views.

Too late in the game for adults to still be filling their diapers over kids kneeling during a song, in my opinion.
 
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