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Denis Villeneuve Says ‘Cut and Paste’ Marvel Movies Have ‘Turned Us Into Zombies’

jason10mm

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Sorry but he's right. People can post all the interviews from "directors" (who are always currently under Disney's employ) who try to dispute this but these movies are directed by executives and VFX artist. Exact plot lines, action sequences, and specific shots are planned years before a single crew member is even hired. They just trace the outline with a pencil basically. They are expensive 2 hour TV show episodes. Their directors superfluous, their cinematographers extraneous. Their writers? Please.
I'm actually very surprised that effects or stunt heavy movies DIDN'T map out all of their scenes, almost shot for shot, ahead of time. Prevents costly post production or editing mistakes when they realize it is unclear that the hero got shot, or just who is fighting what, or that the 3 scenes of characters talking about toast are just too much.

The travesty and audience theft is when a major film starts shooting WHILE WRITING THE SCRIPT, has that ever worked out well?
 
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sol_bad

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Sorry but he's right. People can post all the interviews from "directors" (who are always currently under Disney's employ) who try to dispute this but these movies are directed by executives and VFX artist. Exact plot lines, action sequences, and specific shots are planned years before a single crew member is even hired. They just trace the outline with a pencil basically. They are expensive 2 hour TV show episodes. Their directors superfluous, their cinematographers extraneous. Their writers? Please.

And that's okay. Anyone can still enjoy them. In fact, they are made to be enjoyed. (And to set up marketing for the next movies). But it's pretty incontrovertible that they are soulless. You need only compare something like say the Raimi Spider Man to the Disney MCU Spider-Man to see this. Something crafted by a visionary vs a appeal to four quadrant soulless corporate vampiric visionless product. Hell even the Marc Webb movies for all their faults were extensively fucked with by Sony and still come out with more heart than Homecoming or Far From Home. Because Marc Webb is a good filmmaker and Jon Watts, like most marvel directors, is a no name *insert director here* for the studio.

The DC movies when they don't outright suck (WW1984), or are meddled with (1st SS/ Whedon JL). Are far FAR better to me because I feel an actual film in them. They're typically very cinematic and filmic. Even David Ayers suicide squad intrigues me with that directors cut that's buried somewhere. And the Snyder cut while faulty in some areas and long was much more of an actual enjoyable movie for me than any avengers film. Because while yes I'm sure they have studio notes and some parts of the vision compromised, I always still walk away feeling like I at least saw a directors movie. (Nolan Batman, Burton Batman, Donner Superman, MoS, WW, To some extent Batman Forever, BvS ultimate edition, the upcoming "The Batman" etc.)

You do realise that Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely handed in their first draft scripts for Infinity War and Endgame by the 1st of May 2016? And by July 2016 they were working on the 3rd draft? Both movies were developed together and if 1st drafts are handed in 2016 then pre-vis can start working on the CGI straight away.
James Gunn said that pre-vis for his films were based off his scripts for example.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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Shit load of comic book movies. Shit load of sales. Even Ant Man probably made a ton.

So they are doing something right. I dont watch all the superhero movies, and I almost never watch Pixar movies, but I think these movies make big money like some game franchises due to overall:

- Solid production values
- Wow factor of CGI and explosions
- Fantasy to get away from the world
- Shuts the kids up for an afternoon keeping them entertained for a bit
- And possibly most important.... predictable. You know what you're going to get vs. some random movie which can be good or trash

I think in modern day, people are so busy they just want to chill out with something fun and familiar instead of going through the hassle of trying something new which can be a waste of money.

The farther back you go, media had worse and worse production values so you could basically roll the dice on anything with your dollar. Now, if Marvel Avengers Movie #45 comes out for $13 at theatres, do you go to that with a big screen and big sound? Maybe it has 3D too. Or spend $13 on a drama called The Life and Times of Betty Ford which you can probably watch on NF at home and it's no different than the big screen?
 
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Jan 9, 2021
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I think "turning into zombies" is not a good take, but he's right. Superhero movies are solid shit. They're just repetition over repetition and the same fucking structure while not having a compelling ending. It fucking sucks.

The only truly outstanding superhero movie is Spiderverse, and I remember Logan being pretty great, but god, fuck Marvel and DC movies in general. These movies are trash.
 
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TheOtherGuy

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Oh it's THIS discussion again...sigh. We all know Villeneuve is only being asked and subsequently commenting on this because Dune is coming out soon and this will drive up "controversy" in order to maximize sale for his movie.

Now, for artistic merit it's the same bullshit that it ever is. The cape ARE artistic and sometimes(actually somewhat often) due have some underlying themes and ideas behind them, but not in the highbrow respect that movies by Scorsese, Villeneuve, etc., may have and that's FINE.

The passive-aggressive bullshit digs about the MCU and other cape films is what irritates fans. Yes people enjoy those deeper more complex art house films and understand them just the same as the more popcorn flicks. From there it's a matter of personal preference.
 
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Nov 18, 2016
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I think what's most hilarious about this is that a filmmaker is giving his opinion on something and all of a sudden the internet is clutching their pearls like they're about to get robbed & raped.

Directors used to shit on other directors and movies all the time. The problem is social media amplifies the shit out of these comments and now filmmakers are not allowed to express opinions in fear of a PR backlash.

God I wish Orson Welles was alive to see Twitter. Dude was king of hot takes.
 

captainpat

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I swear, people can’t just say they don’t like a thing or it’s not for them. Instead they need to make that thing the source of society’s problems in order guilt trip others into feeling the same way.
 
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sol_bad

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I swear, people can’t just say they don’t like a thing or it’s not for them. Instead they need to make that thing the source of society’s problems in order guilt trip others into feeling the same way.

It's fine for people to not like things, but the way some people talk is like they're word is god and everyone else is wrong. So people saying they hate MCU are basically calling MCU fans simple minded idiots and they are stupid for liking MCU films. Big difference between someone just stating an opinion and someone insulting the MCU fan base.
 
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LiquidMetal14

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Jan 18, 2007
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A Political refuge from the Jewnited State
I've noticed this kind of trend we've hit and how a lot of these movies have become cookie cutter and that phrasing alone is definitely true. So much that we have movies that are coming out that have the typical montage or the same story structure and they all kind of feel the same with different coats of paint.

I'm not saying they're not well made in the production isn't as good as it could be but there is a little bit of a fatigue when back in the day we really had more movies that had more character that were driving the industry versus the giant Blockbusters which we had room for but seem to have taken more of the mainstream.

Think about a movie like the Irishman which did well enough I suppose because it had a marketing push and Netflix engine behind it. Back in 1990 when Goodfellas was out, that was a seminal moment for movies and this is the kind of stuff we had back then in the mixture of the high budget fantasy type movies.

Everything now is scattered and on different platforms and some of it you might not even know about much like music because it isn't mainstream or being covered by media because the companies don't have money to expose it so we get obviously the big budget Hollywood productions that we have today which are feeling very much like a broad stroke of the same vibe. Ride the pony while it lasts I guess.
 

Rickyiez

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MCU movies are quite enjoyable in the cinema , Infinity War for example . You can’t really end that it’s like some of my childhood interest came to life.

I also enjoy most of his works like Arrival , Sicario and Blade Runner , there’s no need to shit on others. It would be very boring if all I watched is slow burn movies like Sicario or Arrival again and again
 
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oagboghi2

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Apr 15, 2018
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Oh it's THIS discussion again...sigh. We all know Villeneuve is only being asked and subsequently commenting on this because Dune is coming out soon and this will drive up "controversy" in order to maximize sale for his movie.

Now, for artistic merit it's the same bullshit that it ever is. The cape ARE artistic and sometimes(actually somewhat often) due have some underlying themes and ideas behind them, but not in the highbrow respect that movies by Scorsese, Villeneuve, etc., may have and that's FINE.

The passive-aggressive bullshit digs about the MCU and other cape films is what irritates fans. Yes people enjoy those deeper more complex art house films and understand them just the same as the more popcorn flicks. From there it's a matter of personal preference.
It isn’t Denis who is jumping on Twitter attacking people over these cookie cutter movies.

It’s the MCU stans and their victim hood mentality.

It's fine for people to not like things, but the way some people talk is like they're word is god and everyone else is wrong. So people saying they hate MCU are basically calling MCU fans simple minded idiots and they are stupid for liking MCU films. Big difference between someone just stating an opinion and someone insulting the MCU fan base.

Case in point
 
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Oct 1, 2020
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I don't know how people aren't sick of these movies yet. I don't hate Marvel at all, used to have have a few subscriptions when I was a kid. The genre has been beaten to death.
 

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All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Feb 28, 2014
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Doesn't eliminate the fact they are cookie cutter movies with the same plot structure. Yea they are well made and fun but he is right in that respect.
99.9% of movies have a three act structure that makes them essentially the same. If you're going to apply this as critique to Marvel movies you have to apply it to all movies.
 
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Mar 1, 2018
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he's 100% right, and my other complain around these movies is that actors playing in them seem to be placed on fucking pedestal as these great human figures just because they play superheroes xD can't help but cringe when it comes to celebrity worship in US, and especially actors playing in marvel shit
 
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