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[Niero]

(I'm trying to quote something here but I goofed, see below)

 

[plagiarize]

Why couldn't Allistar post the short thing he did, and then Dtoid run the "polished" article they wanted?

because they also wanted to wait until they knew Chloe was out of the hospital in a stable condition, which, you know, is morally the right thing to do too.

 

[daycru]

This thread had now officially become "What Will His Future Employer Learn Next"

Man, you're really getting off on this guy having a harder time making rent. Tells me all I need to know.

 

[Niero]

Man, you're really getting off on this guy having a harder time making rent. Tells me all I need to know.

That's out of context without that private PM that was just removed. For those that saw it they really know what's up.

 

[Azull]

This thread had now officially become "What Will His Future Employer Learn Next"

Wow...just wow.

 

[remnant]

because they also wanted to wait until they knew Chloe was out of the hospital in a stable condition, which, you know, is morally the right thing to do too.

Dtoid had 3 weeks to post the story in a morally clear zone, also lol at morality considering we are talking about a manipulative scammer.

 

[NervousXtian]

That's out of context without that private PM that was just removed. For those that saw it they really know what's up.

This?

In the end, he bragged about how I can't get unemployment because I have a 1099 contract and

he can fire whoever he wants because his business is based in Florida, an at-will employment state.

It's still up there.

I think it's time to stop posting Niero.

 

[TommyT]

This?

No, a post of his was deleted which went into some other details.

 

[NervousXtian]

No, a post of his was deleted which went into some other details.

Who's? Niero's or someone else?

 

[LycanXIII]

because they also wanted to wait until they knew Chloe was out of the hospital in a stable condition, which, you know, is morally the right thing to do too.

So, what's stopping them now?

 

[kodt]

Who's? Niero's or someone else?

Niero's, not the one you quoted. It's deleted now.

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

Who's? Niero's or someone else?

Niero's.

Guess those Lawyers got on your ass again huh? The ones you hate so much?

 

[Sqorgar]

because they also wanted to wait until they knew Chloe was out of the hospital in a stable condition, which, you know, is morally the right thing to do too.

Considering that a person tried to commit public suicide which many assumed was a direct result of IndieGoGo cancelling their plea for life saving surgery, the morally responsible thing would be to post as many verified facts as possible to put the situation into perspective before people started going off and creating wild conspiracy stories, blaming IndieGoGo, or whatever else.

What's morally right by Chloe's transgenderness is not compatible with what is responsible journalism and morally right by the people involved in her scam.

 

[TommyT]

Who's? Niero's or someone else?

Niero's.

did that post just disappear?

Was instead a post of private/rebuttal information contradicting, or rather expanding from his (Neiro's) perspective, some things relayed through Wario64.

 

[NervousXtian]

Niero's, not the one you quoted. It's deleted now.

this one?

 

[MYeager]

So, what's stopping them now?

Well, for one, it'd be pretty shitty to run an article that contains a lot of work from a writer that was just terminated.

 

[TommyT]

this one?

Ha, indeed. Can delete the post, but not the browser cache!

 

[Delusibeta]

Yep, sound the Dyacking Alarm and hold your colours, because here we go...

 

[baphomet]

because they also wanted to wait until they knew Chloe was out of the hospital in a stable condition, which, you know, is morally the right thing to do too.

Yea, it's ok to let people continue donating money to a scam until the scammer gets out of the hospital.

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

this one?

 

[StarCreator]

Looks like I missed the big whammy while I was on an uncontrollable urge to collect all his posts from the previous two pages: http://www.starcreator.com/dumpbox/niero.png

 

[Goon Boon]

Looks like I missed the big whammy while I was on an uncontrollable urge to collect all his posts from the previous two pages: http://www.starcreator.com/dumpbox/niero.png

Adding to the OP.

 

[Parallax]

Oh shit at these developments. I didn't expect things to be going down like this

 

[AkuMifune]

Like jumping into a maelstrom.

I think exposing her as a scam artist was entirely necessary. Outing her was not. The real reason for the scam, whether surgery, saving a cat, drugs, money for vacation or new shoes is irrelevant. The only thing that mattered was that she lied, and it was a scam, and she needed to be held accountable.

In cases of corporate corruption no one cares where the money went, only that it was stolen. Right? What's the argument that this level of personal detail was required?

EDIT: Oh boy.

 

[LycanXIII]

Well, for one, it'd be pretty shitty to run an article that contains a lot of work from a writer that was just terminated.

Oh, no, I'm not saying to post it "now" that he's fired. I meant, why couldn't Allistar post the thing he did, and then Dtoid could still have posted the actual article if it was "going to be great." Was what he posted on Twitter the article they were going to run?

 

[Gunstarheroes]

Well, this story has taken a straight nosedive. I'm starting to really hate everyone involved with this story at this point (Chole less so, though. I think her part in this was a really poor judgement call, though it shouldn't go without being made a point of, which it has)

But everyone else involved, at this point, oh man. This Destructoid meltdown is something else, and its pretty damn pathetic.

 

[StarCreator]

Adding to the OP.

Don't forget the original post #1368 captured here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=58328694&postcount=1382

 

[Niero]

Its actually me that's on the defense. That's why my earlier posts are not on GAF. If anyone would sue its him, not me. He called my posts "libel".

The rest is just spin and nonsense. Nobody with a 1099 (freelance temp) gets unemployment. That's like complaining that taxes aren't taken out of a 1099 status or social security. That's a W2 employment status. He was not a full-time employee.

Re: the other thing, You'll see the updated story on Eurogamer either this week or next.

Before this turned into a shit show there are posts on page 25-27 where I've said my peace.

For those of you who listened, thank you. I'm out.

 

[plagiarize]

Yea, it's ok to let people continue donating money to a scam until the scammer gets out of the hospital.

I'm presuming at this point you're just being willfully ignorant. Making sure you get the facts right, and making sure the person who has been driven to attempt suicide based on the rumors the story is going to confirm is going to be okay are both very valid reasons for holding the story.

 

[robotzombie]

I'm presuming at this point you're just being willfully ignorant. Making sure you get the facts right, and making sure the person who has been driven to attempt suicide based on the rumors the story is going to confirm is going to be okay are both very valid reasons for holding the story.

Like how you've been willfully ignorant to the fact that she continued to try and scam people after the indiegogo thing was cancelled?

 

[Menelaus]

The amount of Niero spin on this page is making me dizzy. Thanks for confirming my deletion of Dtoid from my bookmarks.

 

[StarCreator]

Like how you've been willfully ignorant to the fact that she continued to try and scam people after the indiegogo thing was cancelled?

I haven't seen anything that suggests she herself tried to perpetuate the scam (but show me something if I'm wrong here). The problem was that without evidence supporting Indiegogo's actions, people assumed Indiegogo was in the wrong.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

This thread is really delivering. To bad NeoGAF will be melting in less than an hour.

 

[MYeager]

Oh, no, I'm not saying to post it "now" that he's fired. I meant, why couldn't Allistar post the thing he did, and then Dtoid could still have posted the actual article if it was "going to be great." Was what he posted on Twitter the article they were going to run?

That'd be akin to a reporter gathering information and then just tweeting half the story to the public before going through the process of editing and doing more work that might provide better context for that information. What he posted on twitter was not the article he was going to run, only what would be considered a rough draft. Also if the information he's was gathering and repeating was done so on behalf of his position at Dtoid, then they could be potentially be held liable for any claims of slander or whatever.

That's why they wouldn't want him posting the rough draft on twitter while they work on a larger story.

 

[Wario64]

Allistair has made it clear that he has no intents to go to court about this matter:

One more thing: Let me make something clear to the community and Niero. I don't plan on taking anything to court.

I won't say how much I got paid but it's not enough for legal action to make sense. It'd also send a bad signal to future employers.

This thing, since May 17 when Niero fired me, has been my attempt at defending my character and ability as a journalist against his word.

Some outlets know the truth. Some outlets may blacklist me. This could be so much worse right now if I said everything.

I haven't because I have hope that proving that to future employers will show them that I only wanted to get out of this with my name intact

and had no intent in harming the company or staff.

The "everything" part is what has Niero rushing to lawyers.

No one in the public will ever have a clear picture. I'm happy moving on knowing Chloe is okay, Dtoid is still standing,

and I will work hard in months to come and hope to arrive at an outlet that favors its employees and integrity more than its image.

 

[JABEE]

Why are some of you under the impression that we would have never, ever published this story!!?

Remember, we had a writer ***WORKING*** on the story. I knew it was a good one worth chasing. We approved a guy to sink countless hours into this. However, the story (now famously) went up in an undesirable state, and things quickly spiraled out of control from there. Did you read the amazing piece that later went up on GamersAgainstBigotry.org? Compare the Saturday piece to what went up Tuesday and you tell me which is better. It could have waited.

I could have prevented all of this AND still published it AND not had to fire anyone AND not be here explaining how a newsroom process works.

I don't expect anyone to sympathize with a publisher's problems, but put yourself in my shoes. When you hire bunch of gutsy hot-blooded writers to chase stories like this you begin to develop processes they don't trip over and bruise each other (or themselves, in this case).

If you're suggesting that it's OK to pull the cowboy stunt of blind-sighting your managing editor you would not last a day in this business.


Why wouldn't we want to publish information about fraud? Shouldn't you also be saying that "we'd be doing it for pageview clicks derp" etc? Its kind of nice to not hear that for a change, but for once I kinda wish you did.

Wait? That story was more about Allistair apologizing for doing his job than providing balanced reporting. You would have talked about her trying to defraud people of tens of thousands of dollars as just a simple mistake. The reason your editor was put in this position is because you seemed to wait so long to run the story. A story that would have protected people and the development community from buying into her scam.

I don't think presenting facts that someone is running a scam deserves a delicate article that pardons the person's actions without even providing a motive.

 

[kodt]

Wait? That story was more about Allistair apologizing for doing his job than providing balanced reporting. You would have talked about her trying to defraud people of tens of thousands of dollars as just a simple mistake. The reason your editor was put in this position is because you seemed to wait so long to run the story. A story that would have protected people and the development community from buying into her scam.

I don't think presenting facts that someone is running a scam deserves a delicate article that pardons the person's actions without even providing a motive.

The scam IndieGoGo campaign was shut down well before already. No money was taken. No-one was getting scammed.

 

[Nekofrog]

100% full support of Destructoid here. People are jumping the gun to blame them when they haven't even explored both sides of the issue.

 

[Niero]

I love this site so hard.

Seriously though, we're just talking in circles now. If anyone is really upset about the difference between W2 and 1099 employees please talk to uncle sam. I didn't invent freelancers or Florida law, I just set up my company here. Otherwise, if its beat up-the-suit-hour I guess that's my cue to go, as fun as this was.

You know where to find me if you have any more questions. Happy Xbox'ing!

 

[prwxv3]

The scam IndieGoGo campaign was shut down well before already. No money was taken. No-one was getting scammed.

Thats not how it works. so with that logic if someone tries to murder someone but fails they should be let off scott free.

 

[NubCakes09]

The scam IndieGoGo campaign was shut down well before already. No money was taken. No-one was getting scammed.

Um, money was being donated under false pretenses, how is that not a scam?

 

[eternalb]

This thread almost made me forget about the Xbox event... where are my priorities?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Its actually me that's on the defense. That's why my earlier posts are not on GAF. If anyone would sue its him, not me. He called my posts "libel".

The rest is just spin and nonsense. Nobody with a 1099 (freelance temp) gets unemployment. That's like complaining that taxes aren't taken out of a 1099 status or social security. That's a W2 employment status. He was not a full-time employee.

Re: the other thing, You'll see the updated story on Eurogamer either this week or next.

Before this turned into a shit show there are posts on page 25-27 where I've said my peace.

For those of you who listened, thank you. I'm out.

:lol I think it's funny how every post of yours has been edited at some point.

Edit: :lol another edited posted. FFS.

 

[plagiarize]

Like how you've been willfully ignorant to the fact that she continued to try and scam people after the indiegogo thing was cancelled?

Show me where I've been willfully ignorant of that? She is almost certainly guilty of things which are clearly illegal. That doesn't mean you risk running an inaccurate story about her when she's still recovering in hospital.

 

[kodt]

Thats not how it works. so with that logic if someone tries to murder someone but fails they should be let off scott free.

How you arrived at such a conclusion is beyond me.

The scam was found out and reported to IndieGoGo, they shut it down.

If you think some sort of criminal charges should be brought against her, that has nothing to do with Destructoid.

Using your example, if someone tries to murder someone and fails. It is not CNN's job to make sure they get charged with a crime, or even to report on it. They can report on it if they want to.

Um, money was being donated under false pretenses, how is that not a scam?

It is a scam, but the scam was caught and shut down before anyone actually had money taken from them. Thus there was no "urgent" need to report on it as JABEE suggested.

 

[RobotRocker]

Like how you've been willfully ignorant to the fact that she continued to try and scam people after the indiegogo thing was cancelled?

Would you rather a shoddy story that would create problems in the process via shonky evidence, possibly prejudice criminal charges and a trial and endanger people's lives but give the public the pound of flesh they so desperately want? Or a solid, legally sound story that would stand up in court, provide good journalism, be responsible and limit harm and be of the highest standard?

I mean, we're yelling at Kotaku this week for being click-baiting. Why the double standards now?

I don't think presenting facts that someone is running a scam deserves a delicate article that pardons the person's actions without even providing a motive.

Who said they were being pardoned? And motive can be explained without the drastic step of outing.

"Independent developer Chloe Sagal has admitted to Destructoid that their crowdsourcing fundraiser to pay for a "life saving" surgery was going to be used for non-essential surgery."

Motive without outing. You're welcome.

 

[AkuMifune]

I love this site so hard.

Seriously though, we're just talking in circles now. If anyone is really upset about the difference between W2 and 1099 employees please talk to uncle sam. I didn't invent freelancers or Florida law, I just set up my company here. Otherwise, if its beat up-the-suit-hour I guess that's my cue to go, as fun as this was.

You know where to find me if you have any more questions. Happy Xbox'ing!

Dealing with NeoGAF is as much about tone as anything else. Some posters do not deserve any respect, true, but the site in general does. Just don't be surprised if many of us stop visiting yours.

But if you're upset about the difference between defensive and snark please talk to uncle sam.

Thats not how it works. so with that logic if someone tries to murder someone but fail they should be let off scott free.

Well at least I'm happy that the legal system recognizes asking for donations under false pretenses as attempted murder.

 

[StarCreator]

How you arrived at such a conclusion is beyond me.

The scam was found out and reported to IndieGoGo, they shut it down.

If you think some sort of criminal charges should be brought against her, that has nothing to do with Destructoid.

Using your example, if someone tries to murder someone and fails. It is not CNN's job to make sure they get charged with a crime, or even to report on it. They can report on it if they want to.

It is a scam, but the scam was caught and shut down before anyone actually had money taken from them. Thus there was no "urgent" need to report on it as JABEE suggested.

Yes, there was need for an initial report. See:

I haven't seen anything that suggests she herself tried to perpetuate the scam (but show me something if I'm wrong here). The problem was that without evidence supporting Indiegogo's actions, people assumed Indiegogo was in the wrong.

In some people's eyes the situation was starting to undermine Indiegogo's credibility, which could have jeopardized their ability to collect money for other causes. Also:

Why do some of you insist on having strong opinions without bothering to read about the incident? Several indie games were setting aside revenue for her. Indiegogo has never been the whole story. In fact, it was Project Zomboid's devs announcing they were donating revenue that made the story blow up in the first place.

 

[kodt]

Yes, there was need for an initial report. See:

That shows a reason to report on it. Not an URGENT need. They planned on releasing the story when it was ready, instead of a twitter comment.

 

[Menelaus]

Who said they were being pardoned? And motive can be explained without the drastic step of outing.

"Independent developer Chloe Sagal has admitted to Destructoid that their crowdsourcing fundraiser to pay for a "life saving" surgery was going to be used for non-essential surgery."

Motive without outing. You're welcome.

You don't think that would unleash a shitstorm of "click-baiting" accusations and wild speculation? Not defending the outting, but c'mon.