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Deus Ex: Human Revolution |OT| I never asked for this... It gave me lemon-lime

S

soultron

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
I wish the choices we made along the way somehow added up to more in the end. The narrative can be shaped in some interesting ways, but it all ends up in the same place. It seems like a waste to have four endings, and then not link the player's actions to any of them beyond pressing one of four buttons at the end. For a game about choices and player freedom, it's really weird that the alternate endings are sequestered from our decisions.
Click to expand...
I understand what you're saying. Perhaps it had something to do with Human Revolution being a prequel and not altering the course of the series' universe? It seems that the game's events ultimately had to lead the player discovering the
Hyron
project since that ties Human Revolution to Deus Ex, right?
 
L

Laurentius

Member
I wish the choices we made along the way somehow added up to more in the end. The narrative can be shaped in some interesting ways, but it all ends up in the same place. It seems like a waste to have four endings, and then not link the player's actions to any of them beyond pressing one of four buttons at the end. For a game about choices and player freedom, it's really weird that the alternate endings are sequestered from our decisions.
Click to expand...

That was actually a design decision from the first game, and I think HR was just following its predecessor in that. I highly recommend watching these videos where Warren Spector and Harvey Smith discuss their design decisions behind the first and second game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTWvsGA77T4

They talk about how they considered more of what you're looking for, having player choices throughout the game lead up to the ending that you get when you finish the game. Ultimately, they didn't want the players to feel limited at the end of the game because of decisions they didn't understand the ramification for earlier in the game. They go into a bit more depth, though, so I would definitely watch those videos. Pretty cool stuff.

EDIT: But even then,
Deus Ex's choices for the different endings was superior. You actually had to do some different things in the final level to achieve them, as opposed to being stuck in a room with four buttons.
 
T

The Nature Roy

Member
GhaleonEB said:
But in the end, none of it adds up to anything. The endings all felt empty.

The three side options of broadcasting different versions of the story all ring hollow. The way the media manipulates the messages the masses see is one of the main themes in the game. The notion that a one-time broadcast of one version of events would in any way have such a dramatic effect as altering the course of human evolutionary history struck me as absurd, and contradictory to the themes in the narrative. Heck, we have instances in our own recent history where corporate (or government) PR washed over the real version of events in the public view, even after the real story comes out. It happens all the time, for issues big and small. So those three endings just ring false.
Click to expand...
Well, you could argue that
Picus/Eliza have such a massive worldwide influence in terms of shaping the news and people's opinions that it wouldn't simply be a one-time broadcast but rather dictating the manner in which Picus covered the story going forward.
 
S

soultron

Banned
SenseiJinx said:
EDIT: But even then,
Deus Ex's choices for the different endings was superior. You actually had to do some different things in the final level to achieve them, as opposed to being stuck in a room with four buttons.
Click to expand...
I enjoyed this because it made sense with the character (
Eliza
) telling you about it, but, yeah, it still felt a bit hollow. EDIT: What The Nature Roy said, agreed.

I enjoyed weighing the options though. It was very thought-provoking.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
SenseiJinx said:
That was actually a design decision from the first game, and I think HR was just following its predecessor in that. I highly recommend watching these videos where Warren Spector and Harvey Smith discuss their design decisions behind the first and second game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTWvsGA77T4

They talk about how they considered more of what you're looking for, having player choices throughout the game lead up to the ending that you get when you finish the game. Ultimately, they didn't want the players to feel limited at the end of the game because of decisions they didn't understand the ramification for earlier in the game. They go into a bit more depth, though, so I would definitely watch those videos. Pretty cool stuff.

EDIT: But even then,
Deus Ex's choices for the different endings was superior. You actually had to do some different things in the final level to achieve them, as opposed to being stuck in a room with four buttons.
Click to expand...
This is a reasonable line of thought, but I do agree with your tagged comment. There are ways to back-load the ending-altering decisions in a way that doesn't literally come down to
hitting one of four buttons in a room.

Along those lines though, we're making decisions throughout the game that have payoffs we can't anticipate, large and small. I let the guy go at the end of the first mission on my first play through, which lead to an immediate result, and then a later payoff as the character folded back into the story. Enabling that kind of decision making later on down the line would have been more effective. I still remember the endings to Knights of the Old Republic, where even though I was an evil mofo during the entire game, there was one clearly called out decision point late in the game where I was making a choice that would affect the end game. In that case, a decision tree, but Deus Ex could have had the same concept played out in an interesting scenario where we have to choose courses of actions. It would have been more satisfying and in line with the rest of the game.

I haven't played the other games, but it sounds like that's closer to what the original game did.
 
N

nib95

Banned
Finally completed the game yesterday. Still a little disappointed at the overall level of polish, lack of depth or real world enormity. Very repetitive and sometimes only offers the illusion of grandeur. I do like the story and the ending options mind. Overall its a solid title, but one lacking in ambition and depth. Could have been a lot more but as is, it's entertaining, just not mind blowing. If I had to give it a score on the meta scale it'd probably be somewhere between 8 to 8.5. Probably the lower end of that scale if I'm honest.
 
M

malfcn

Member
If I hacked the alarm system and I have a whole room firing at me and screaming "Make the call" - I am still foxy right? As long as no flashing red lights?
 
I

I should be doing hw

Member
Hacking, fully upgrade that stuff I guess. Make sure to get the 'Double Takedown', don't worry about those 'Silent Running' upgrades, they are useless. Basically hacking is all you need for good stealth, and the Tranq Rifle, close takedowns can be done with your melee attacks. Then just buy Silencers for the Combat Rifle and Pistol and your pretty much golden.
There's obviously the Cloaking System you might want too, I never used it though, also you might want Icarus and the Break Through Walls upgrade for stealth progression options in some missions.
 
T

Thagomizer

Member
GhaleonEB said:
The spoilered discussion around a certain character - that would be
Malik's demise, or not
- has had me thinking about how this game handles player choices. I like how there are a lot of overlapping decision points along the way. Particularly in the side quests, such as letting certain characters live or not. In some cases entire side quests open up down the road depending on the outcome of the conversation battles, and many of the missions offer payoffs. Such as
saving both the husband and the wife during the first mission, or the backstory mission that stems from the backdoor access that Sarif was running
.

But in the end, none of it adds up to anything. The endings all felt empty.

The three side options of broadcasting different versions of the story all ring hollow. The way the media manipulates the messages the masses see is one of the main themes in the game. The notion that a one-time broadcast of one version of events would in any way have such a dramatic effect as altering the course of human evolutionary history struck me as absurd, and contradictory to the themes in the narrative. Heck, we have instances in our own recent history where corporate (or government) PR washed over the real version of events in the public view, even after the real story comes out. It happens all the time, for issues big and small. So those three endings just ring false.

The "main" ending of blowing up the installation and all of the characters in it is better, but still feels empty. In the end, our only contribution to things will have been to knock off various characters (Sarif, etc.) and the disruption of the kill switch plot. Though the ending makes clear that is a temporary victory.

I wish the choices we made along the way somehow added up to more in the end. The narrative can be shaped in some interesting ways, but it all ends up in the same place. It seems like a waste to have four endings, and then not link the player's actions to any of them beyond pressing one of four buttons at the end. For a game about choices and player freedom, it's really weird that the alternate endings are sequestered from our decisions.
Click to expand...

In addition to the Picus/Eliza angle, you have to consider that
what Darrow did DIRECTLY affected a LOT of people. We're talking probably every single military personnel on the planet, many construction people, airline pilots, doctors, the upper class in general- everyone who switched out their chips, with the exception of Sarif and his inner circle, has gone completely bonkers, literally at the press of a button. It is very likely that a LOT of people died, and it can be directly tied to augs. While Darrow's ending seems like a tad of an overreaction, I can easily see people freaking the fuck out and turning completely against augs after the near-collapse of society.

EDIT: Icarus was the first 2-Praxis aug that I bought. Considering how many times I fell off of things, especially in Heng Sha, I would have thrown my controller at a wall if I didn't have it.

EDIT 2: Ah, I missed that info that Taggart was in on it.
 
T

tc farks

Member
Enco said:
Do you mean
the girls in the final boss fight that come out of that machine if you press the buttons
? If so, what were they all about? I didn't get that bit.
I killed them all to stop the machine
.
Click to expand...

I didn't get it either.
Yeah there was mass scale human trafficking to the facility and you read the emails about keeping the girls healthy. Because the Hyron needs human beings to run? What a weird engineering decision. I tried reading everything and paying attention but one of the reasons I didn't care that much about that ending is I didn't know what was going on. Except that girls were really cold and in pain and presumably don't live very long. Sad, but why again? To somehoe give power to the alpha pod that Zhao failed at being?
 
C

cametall

Member
Enjoyed the game but I hate hokey "you choose the ending" type ... endings.

I prefer endings be influenced through your decisions throughout the entire game (like STALKER, sorta). The sum of everything you do coalescing into a final moment, rather than
"hurr, push button, deicde fate."

The more subtle your decisions affect the game the better, instead of "yes/no you obviously know what path you're on, no surprise endings!"
 
T

Thagomizer

Member
cametall said:
Enjoyed the game but I hate hokey "you choose the ending" type ... endings.

I prefer endings be influenced through your decisions throughout the entire game (like STALKER, sorta). The sum of everything you do coalescing into a final moment, rather than
"hurr, push button, deicde fate."

The more subtle your decisions affect the game the better, instead of "yes/no you obviously know what path you're on, no surprise endings!"
Click to expand...

I actually think the "push button, get ending" concept works for this game-how small actions can have huge consequences and how the media affects public perception- but it was just handled and presented really poorly.

I like the idea, but it seems obvious to me that the actual presentation was rushed. It almost looks to me like they didn't have time to do the ending they wanted, and made this at the last minute to ship the game on time.
 
P

pakkit

Banned
PC. Because it's Deus Ex, and you'll do a lot of reading and it's better fit for the PC, and it's cheaper and it will look better and it has the potential for modding in the future which the Xbox lacks.

Anything else?
 
T

Thagomizer

Member
pakkit said:
PC. Because it's Deus Ex, and you'll do a lot of reading and it's better fit for the PC, and it's cheaper and it will look better and it has the potential for modding in the future which the Xbox lacks.

Anything else?
Click to expand...

I played it on the Xbox, and goddamn it was hard reading those subtitles.
 
R

Reuenthal

Banned
Which one of the endings is the best for... creating the most misery in the world? Not only on the short term, mind you.
I have already beaten the game and chosen all endings with my first and the one I considered my 'official' choice being the Sarif one. But what if we choose based on trying to do the most damage to the world? Probably the Darrow or the Taggart. The later because the Illuminati seem to gain some power with it, the first because 20% of the population are really fucked. Or maybe the self destruction one. The Illuminati lose three powerful people who might be a threat based on what they know, in Sarif, Adam Jensen and Darrow. Some important threats for them are eliminated. Taggard is charismatic but ultimately not that much important for them. And you kill a lot of innocents. Now that I think of it, the Self Destruction one is probably the worst. The Illuminati would manipulate the media as they wish, the people will NOT be really free to decide how things will proceed without outside influence despite claims to the contrary. And some of the possible opposition to the Illuminati is eliminated.
 
T

Thagomizer

Member
Reuenthal said:
Which one of the endings is the best for... creating the most misery in the world? Not only on the short term, mind you.
I have already beaten the game and chosen all endings with my first and the one I considered my 'official' choice being the Sarif one. But what if we choose based on trying to do the most damage to the world? Probably the Darrow or the Taggart. The later because the Illuminati seem to gain some power with it, the first because 20% of the population are really fucked. Or maybe the self destruction one. The Illuminati lose three powerful people who might be a threat based on what they know, in Sarif, Adam Jensen and Darrow. Some important threats for them are eliminated. Taggard is charismatic but ultimately not that much important for them. And you kill a lot of innocents.
Click to expand...

In my opinion, probably
destroying Panchea. Not only are you killing several of the most powerful men in the world, including whatever foreign delegates survived Darrow's signal, you are also destroying one of the most massive consruction projects in history. Quite probably the biggest. Panchea almost certainly cost as much to build as entire cities, and all that capital will go up in flames. It'll bankrupt literally everyone involved with or invested in the project. The insurance payouts for the killed workers alone would probably cause a global recession. In addition, imagine what happens when you suddenly collapse a structure displacing trillions of tons of water in the arctic ocean...
 
M

malfcn

Member
Now I am pissed. Missed a book. Damn Hengsha, I must have loaded a save of me *not* having that book in the pods. *cries*

If Foxy, Give Me and Pac pop I will cry.
 
S

soultron

Banned
$15 does seem a little steep. I'd like to know how long it will take to thoroughly dismantle every nook and cranny of The Missing Link. I like to take my time in games like this, so I'm looking for a possible 10 hours from the DLC.
 
M

malfcn

Member
How fast you think I could run and gun on easy mode skipping all side quests?

On the Hardest difficulty I just got Pacifistic and Foxiest of the Hounds. Sitting at 950 because of a stupid book, argh.

And the ending and credits got to me again. Bravo.

..

Time to kill everyone.
 
D

Dark Octave

Banned
Finished this last night and I have a few quick notes about what worked for me.

- I believe it's well known that the Magnum with exploding rounds is no joke. Get it and save it for bosses and mechs.

- The stealth package is garbage. Cones of vision, and all that other stuff is pointless.

- The invisible ability is amazing. Upgrade it to max.

- See though walls ability is amazing as well. This and invisible is all you need for stealth.

- The battery system is so stupid in this game that I never bothered to use any candy bars. I only used one battery almost the entire game and pretty much wasted praxis points on multiple batteries.

- Do max out your battery's recharge speed, though the difference is smaller than you might expect.

- Don't bother with recoil and steady aim augs unless you aren't really comfortable at sniping. Actually steady aim may be a good thing, I just didn't feel I needed it.

- Icarus landing system will both save your ass and time. Get it.

- Upgrade 3 hacking packages to max. The one that tells you what prize is in the box before you open it should not be priority. You should have plenty of stop and nuke programs by the end of the game if you're hacking right.

- Nodes seem to have memory and will load much quicker when alredy cracked from a previous attempt.

- Eventually it's smart to get the break walls aug. A few hiding places house praxis kits.

- The heavy lifting aug comes in handy mostly when dealing with air ducts.

- The bosses are pretty easy once you understand how they work. The second one gave me the most trouble. I used invisible to buy a little time and breathing room after taking damage. Should last you 7 seconds on one battery fully upgraded. All the time you need to get to safetey.

- Jump is nice to have, but I never really found a good use for it besides the third boss fight. Invisible then jumping over walls to get away worked great.

- A lot of characters like tough love. Adam is naturally a douche and everyone just accepts it, so just go with it.

- I boosted my radar but never really used it.

- Halfway though the game I discovered that you can cut off the hacking process early and save yourself the 30 second wait.

- Yes you can
save Malik
and it's not hard. What i did was magnum/explosive round with a laser sight everyone. Invisible and cover when taking damage. Mechs take about 6 shots.

- Oh and laser sight all your favorite weapons. I don't get the point of laser sniper rifle though.

- Silence/laser handgun <3

That's all i can think of, right now.
 
E

El'Kharn

Member
Good game...shame most of the people in the game look like they are controlled by Supermarionation when you have a convo with them tho.
 
K

KittenMaster

Member
My opinion on the endings. This comes from having watched the endings a couple of days ago though, I decided to visit the thread out of the blue.

Panchaea ending seems the least canon affecting at first, since all of the parties aren't in Deus Ex 1, but it's also the most uncharacteristic and least rational of the endings especially for a guy like Jenson who always came off as accepting.

Taggart's idea is interesting, but all that the humanity front did during the events of the game really makes me unwilling to support the dude. I really can't imagine Jenson picking this option. I also find this the most politically driven option.

Darrow's ending is good as a confession, but I found the idea behind it to be completely unrealistic just on the basis that history repeats itself and that there's always someone that will do the same stupid thing for the same stupid reason.

And finally, Sarif's ending. They kind of throw you off a few times by Sarif showing his true colors on more than one occasion, but the end result lines up the most with what you are trying to accomplish in the game (well, asked by Sarif to accomplish). This is the corporate driven ending, so if you NON-ARTIST TYPES want to stick it to THE MAN this ending isn't for you.

All of the endings had a weird brain effect on me that made me think the game was shorter than it actually was. I think it might've been the atmosphere and mood of that whole part of the game which was much 'lighter', more dreamlike, and cold climated than the heavier city locales of the rest of the game.

Aurarian said:
Anyone know of a good stealth build? First time playing this so I'm not sure what's good and what's crap.
Click to expand...
There's really not that many bad skills, but I'll warn you on some things:

1. Extra cell/recharge augments will not make the 2nd/3rd/etc cells charge on their own.
2. Walking silently is a toggle and uses cells.

Some skills don't sound that useful at first, but then you learn to appreciate them after actually having them.

How fast you think I could run and gun on easy mode skipping all side quests?
Click to expand...
Judging by this semi-speedrun I watched the other day, probably about an hour, possibly less.


=======

Also, I have started playing Deus Ex 1 and I finally understand the thread title. Gunther is so cool.
 
L

LowEndTorque

Member
Dark Octave said:
Finished this last night and I have a few quick notes about what worked for me.

- I believe it's well known that the Magnum with exploding rounds is no joke. Get it and save it for bosses and mechs.

- The stealth package is garbage. Cones of vision, and all that other stuff is pointless.

- The invisible ability is amazing. Upgrade it to max.

- See though walls ability is amazing as well. This and invisible is all you need for stealth.

- The battery system is so stupid in this game that I never bothered to use any candy bars. I only used one battery almost the entire game and pretty much wasted praxis points on multiple batteries.

- Do max out your battery's recharge speed, though the difference is smaller than you might expect.

- Don't bother with recoil and steady aim augs unless you aren't really comfortable at sniping. Actually steady aim may be a good thing, I just didn't feel I needed it.

- Icarus landing system will both save your ass and time. Get it.

- Upgrade 3 hacking packages to max. The one that tells you what prize is in the box before you open it should not be priority. You should have plenty of stop and nuke programs by the end of the game if you're hacking right.

- Nodes seem to have memory and will load much quicker when alredy cracked from a previous attempt.

- Eventually it's smart to get the break walls aug. A few hiding places house praxis kits.

- The heavy lifting aug comes in handy mostly when dealing with air ducts.

- The bosses are pretty easy once you understand how they work. The second one gave me the most trouble. I used invisible to buy a little time and breathing room after taking damage. Should last you 7 seconds on one battery fully upgraded. All the time you need to get to safetey.

- Jump is nice to have, but I never really found a good use for it besides the third boss fight. Invisible then jumping over walls to get away worked great.

- A lot of characters like tough love. Adam is naturally a douche and everyone just accepts it, so just go with it.

- I boosted my radar but never really used it.

- Halfway though the game I discovered that you can cut off the hacking process early and save yourself the 30 second wait.

- Yes you can
save Malik
and it's not hard. What i did was magnum/explosive round with a laser sight everyone. Invisible and cover when taking damage. Mechs take about 6 shots.

- Oh and laser sight all your favorite weapons. I don't get the point of laser sniper rifle though.

- Silence/laser handgun <3

That's all i can think of, right now.
Click to expand...


Agree with pretty much all of this.

One thing to add though. Typhoon is insanely overpowered.

If you want a cheap and easy way out of bosses, fully upgrade your Typhoon ability and make room in your inventory for extra typhoon ammo. Not a single one of the bosses will stand a chance against you even on the hardest difficulty.
 
H

Heysoos

Member
So, just finished the game. The game was a lot more fun than I expected. Being able to sneak my way into security rooms and get the robots and turrets to kill my enemies was really satisfying. The gun play felt just okay to me though. I wasn't trying to run and gun or anything like that, but it seemed like the game would punish me for engaging in firefights sometimes, even though my build centered towards a more head on approach with guns. Bosses were just okay, also. Didn't really get to experience much of them just because Typhoon makes it hilariously easy.

One thing that REALLY bothered me though dealt with the ending. On the last level when
the augmented workers go nuts
I went really out of my way as to not
kill any single one
of them only to find out it had basically no effect on the ending anyway, other than a
few dialogue changes really. I could have basically killed every single civilian in the game and none of it would have mattered.

Also, I'm not completely sure why, but the overall story seemed kind of weak to me too. It was still a fun game though. Glad I played it. Might give the original Deus Ex another shot, but the game gave me horrible nausea when I first bought it from the Games for Windows Live sale.
 
T

Trouble

Banned
Heysoos said:
One thing that REALLY bothered me though dealt with the ending. On the last level when
the augmented workers go nuts
I went really out of my way as to not
kill any single one
of them only to find out it had basically no effect on the ending anyway, other than a
few dialogue changes really. I could have basically killed every single civilian in the game and none of it would have mattered.
Click to expand...

It matters if you
want to get the Pacifist achievo
.
 
C

ChocolateCupcakes

Member
Something weird is happening. I was walking to
the Detroit Convention to ask Taggert about his right hand man
and the screen bugged out for a second like I was hit by an EMP grenade. Am I missing something?
 
S

soultron

Banned
ChocolateCupcakes said:
Something weird is happening. I was walking to
the Detroit Convention to ask Taggert about his right hand man
and the screen bugged out for a second like I was hit by an EMP grenade. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...
It's a glitch but it's not game-breaking or anything. I had it happen to me too but was able to finish the game fine.
 
Dakota47

Dakota47

Member
soultron said:
It's a glitch but it's not game-breaking or anything. I had it happen to me too but was able to finish the game fine.
Click to expand...

It is actually part of the game story. It will happen again. You will discover the reason for it.
 
Dries

Dries

Member
So I played this game for a while and after the first or second patch it fixed the stuttering. Two weeks ago I bought The Witcher 2, so I haven't played DE:HR for a while. Today, I started playing again and I see there's a new patch. What happened? The stuttering is back, so now I can't play the game AGAIN. The last patch fucked everything up again.

Is there a new patch in the making......? ugh I'm getting sick of this. This has really ruined the game experience for me and next time I'll wait six months before buying a Eidos Montreal PC game.

Who else is still experiencing stuttering (after the last patch)?
 
S

SHAZOOM

Member
Regarding the endings.
I think Panchae eventually falls apart/implodes in all of the endings. From the e-mails I read in Panchae, it seems like the Hyron Project was basically monitoring all of the pressure being put surrounding the Panchae Shaft. Since Jensen essentially destroyed the Hyron, Panchae has nothing to regulate the pressure so it doesn't collapes in on itself.
 
T

Thagomizer

Member
El'Kharn said:
Good game...shame most of the people in the game look like they are controlled by Supermarionation when you have a convo with them tho.
Click to expand...

Darrow's convo battle
was the only one with really good animation, IMO. There's one part where he looks over his shoulder at you and raises his eyebrow that I felt was really well done. It sounds underwhelming, but I really liked that moment.

Yelena Federova coughing on her
own blood was good, too.
 
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